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On March 11 2013 02:15 llIH wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 11:37 Cyro wrote:On March 10 2013 06:11 llIH wrote:
I have another question.
The 3570K is the "best" cpu for sc2. (Some people in this thread said it some way like that) 1920x1080
1) what is the best laptop cpu for sc2?
2) What is the best desktop gpu for sc2
3) What is the best laptop gpu for sc2? With desktop CPU's, the 3570k costs only a couple hundred dollars - there is no superior option, so it makes a lot of sense to buy it. Its the ceiling where performance stops increasing - or arguably single threaded performance is literally the best of all intel CPU's, because you dont have to worry about hyperthreading or extra cores generating heat so you can overclock further. With laptop CPU's, the best CPU would just be the highest clocked ivy bridge quad core, but the price range differences are massive, and while you can build an ideal desktop that will outperform everything mid to lategame for something like $700 with literally no improvements possible for increasing sc2 framerate, having the "best" laptop i would not be suprised if it cost something like 3k. Best desktop GPU would be Geforce Titan followed by (in my opinion) gtx680 before hd7970, gtx670 - but you can max the game on a much weaker GPU, something like a hd 7770 or an (old) gtx460 - buying a good GPU just means you have 250fps instead of 100-150fps early game, because CPU pins you down anyway. What I meant was. Is there a laptop equivalent to the 3570K that is best suited to sc2? Same with gpu for desktop and laptop. (Already know 3570K is for desktop cpu)
It's not that the i5-3570K is special or optimized for SC2 or anything like that. It's just the cheapest unlocked-multiplier (you can overclock it more than just some small arbitrary limitation) processor using Intel's Iatest processor architecture. Meaning, it's the same design as the other stuff, but you can run it at a higher clock speed to get higher performance. Unless you overclock it, it's just like any other current Intel Core i5, except that this one runs from 3.4-3.8 GHz. Actually, so does the i5-3570, and the i5-3550 isn't far behind, same for the i5-3470, and so on...
i7-3770K is very slightly better from having 8MB instead of 6MB L3 cache and then possibly being able to overclock a little more on average. The hyperthreading is useless here. The difference is small enough to be within testing error for most game benchmarks.
There's no unlocked-multiplier latest-gen laptop CPU except the i7-3940XM (and i7-3920XM), but you may be limited overclocking that by the laptop's cooling, voltage regulation (power delivery) hardware, and laptop's BIOS. It's also more like $1000 for just the chip. I don't know if Cyro forgot about this or just considers it out of contention based on price and feasibility. If you have some $3000 brick, you might be able to get performance like a desktop i5-3570K—at least to levels most people overclock to, not the enthusiast or subzero or whatever levels.
On March 11 2013 02:31 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 01:40 Ropid wrote:On March 10 2013 22:40 wallyng106 wrote:
thanks for the reply.
I was thinking of getting 650w just because of the possibility of re-using it in the future. Is that something worth considering? But I'll look into the 450-500w products as well.
For cooling if I went with a CoolerMaster TPC 812 CPU that should give me cooler temperatures and the clearance for the RAM. Interesting about the overclocking though. Basically, that CM cooler is a bit of a dud with its flashy technology. The simple Hyper 212 Evo has the same performance. If you want something stronger and are worried about RAM clearance, Thermalright makes big coolers where the heatpipes bend to the side to make room for the fan (maybe?) not ending up over the first RAM slot (like this: + Show Spoiler +), and they end up being much cheaper, I think. Honestly i really think there's two ways to go with overclocking ivy bridge, firstly the 212 evo sweet spot 4.4ghz or whatever type, and secondly just going for a notable performance gain over that, some CPU's hit a wall around 4.6ghz, others dont. Unlike other cpu's, you WILL be temperature limited with an ivy bridge CPU unless you a crazy person with a lot of knowledge (delidding) so i dont see much point on compromising on cooling. The NH-D14 is not good enough - why would any of these other single tower-single-fan heatsinks be?
These in-between suggestions like higher-end air cooling may be mostly to hit the 4.4-4.7 GHz range without a really obnoxious level of noise under load. Anyway, ~4.4 GHz is probably enough for most people asking here.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
I dont consider the unlocked $1k laptop CPU's to be at all comparable to the 3570k, because literally nothing beats 3570k in single threaded performance, you are not compromising on performance to get it, not for most games anyway and particularly not for an sc2 system, its just a cheap ($169 at microcenter) powerhouse with no upgrade path unless your focus is on multithreaded performance - whereas laptop CPU's, you keep throwing more and more money, they get better in every way up to obscene price points.
Pretty much any ivy bridge can do 4.4ghz 1.25v or something, above that there's too much variance, some need 1.4v for 4.6ghz, some need under 1.2v, some run 10c cooler than others at the same voltage, same settings, same motherboard and system because of ivy's issues with the integrated heat spreader on CPU, it's basically impossible to compare, but if you dont delid (which is far beyond most people - i dont think more than a couple hundred or thousand people actually did it), for any high overclock you will be heat limited, nh-d14 is not particularly noisy, infact it has amazing cooling to noise ratio's.
Its just that you can either stick at low spots like 4.4ghz, 1.25v (or less) where a 212 evo or something can always comfortably cool, or you can push past that, and i dont see the point really going for something mid tier, especially something that performs 10c or more worse than three fan mounted nh-d14
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Is 10C difference with a noisy fan setup and/or with a much higher thermal load than 100W?
Which sites do heatsink reviews with Ivy Bridge? I don't think things really scale the same way for different processors.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
Im not sure, i just did some quick googling for relative power. I would be shocked if nh-d14 with three 140mm fans mounted was not 10c better than a single tower single fan cooler, and noise is not really insane or anything.
Ivy bridge does not give results anything like a 100w thermal plate for running higher end overclocks
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Right, I checked frostytech and, as usual, didn't really take those results to be indicative of cooling actual processors, given the distribution of the thermal load and other peculiarities of their setup.
To me 10C seems like a rather large difference unless the thermal load is really so large that you can't cool the fins on a single tower heatsink fast enough. On many setups you see rather precipitous dropoffs of cooling efficiency vs. fan speed (or mostly equivalently, cooling efficiency vs. heatsink size) past a certain point. I don't know if Ivy Bridge would be similar.
Here I'll point to SPCR because I think their results are usually fairly consistent (but could be off), but for stock i7-965, which uses much more power than overclocked i5-3570k, they get +35C @ 33 dBA on Phanteks PH-TC14PE and then +38C @ 22 dBA on Thermalright HR-02 Macho. Or +43C @ 12 dBA running the fan at 730 rpm, not even a 10C difference vs. top air cooling. Okay, i7-965 has a much different heat distribution than i5-3570k, but this is the kind of thing that happens when you're not really stressing the heatsinks much. Also, HR-02 Macho is a single large tower cooler and ~$40, but it should be better than Hyper 212 EVO. Or not, considering that Hyper 212 is much denser and runs the fan much faster, even if it's smaller? Certainly HR-02 Macho shouldn't be better at 730 rpm than Hyper 212 EVO at full blast.
Even if Ivy Bridge is hotter, it's not transferring more heat to a heatsink than stock Bloomfield. What about temperature differentials? I don't really understand this stuff.
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On March 11 2013 02:44 Myrmidon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 02:15 llIH wrote:On March 10 2013 11:37 Cyro wrote:On March 10 2013 06:11 llIH wrote:
I have another question.
The 3570K is the "best" cpu for sc2. (Some people in this thread said it some way like that) 1920x1080
1) what is the best laptop cpu for sc2?
2) What is the best desktop gpu for sc2
3) What is the best laptop gpu for sc2? With desktop CPU's, the 3570k costs only a couple hundred dollars - there is no superior option, so it makes a lot of sense to buy it. Its the ceiling where performance stops increasing - or arguably single threaded performance is literally the best of all intel CPU's, because you dont have to worry about hyperthreading or extra cores generating heat so you can overclock further. With laptop CPU's, the best CPU would just be the highest clocked ivy bridge quad core, but the price range differences are massive, and while you can build an ideal desktop that will outperform everything mid to lategame for something like $700 with literally no improvements possible for increasing sc2 framerate, having the "best" laptop i would not be suprised if it cost something like 3k. Best desktop GPU would be Geforce Titan followed by (in my opinion) gtx680 before hd7970, gtx670 - but you can max the game on a much weaker GPU, something like a hd 7770 or an (old) gtx460 - buying a good GPU just means you have 250fps instead of 100-150fps early game, because CPU pins you down anyway. What I meant was. Is there a laptop equivalent to the 3570K that is best suited to sc2? Same with gpu for desktop and laptop. (Already know 3570K is for desktop cpu) It's not that the i5-3570K is special or optimized for SC2 or anything like that. It's just the cheapest unlocked-multiplier (you can overclock it more than just some small arbitrary limitation) processor using Intel's Iatest processor architecture. Meaning, it's the same design as the other stuff, but you can run it at a higher clock speed to get higher performance. Unless you overclock it, it's just like any other current Intel Core i5, except that this one runs from 3.4-3.8 GHz. Actually, so does the i5-3570, and the i5-3550 isn't far behind, same for the i5-3470, and so on... i7-3770K is very slightly better from having 8MB instead of 6MB L3 cache and then possibly being able to overclock a little more on average. The hyperthreading is useless here. The difference is small enough to be within testing error for most game benchmarks. There's no unlocked-multiplier latest-gen laptop CPU except the i7-3940XM (and i7-3920XM), but you may be limited overclocking that by the laptop's cooling, voltage regulation (power delivery) hardware, and laptop's BIOS. It's also more like $1000 for just the chip. I don't know if Cyro forgot about this or just considers it out of contention based on price and feasibility. If you have some $3000 brick, you might be able to get performance like a desktop i5-3570K—at least to levels most people overclock to, not the enthusiast or subzero or whatever levels. Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 02:31 Cyro wrote:On March 11 2013 01:40 Ropid wrote:On March 10 2013 22:40 wallyng106 wrote:
thanks for the reply.
I was thinking of getting 650w just because of the possibility of re-using it in the future. Is that something worth considering? But I'll look into the 450-500w products as well.
For cooling if I went with a CoolerMaster TPC 812 CPU that should give me cooler temperatures and the clearance for the RAM. Interesting about the overclocking though. Basically, that CM cooler is a bit of a dud with its flashy technology. The simple Hyper 212 Evo has the same performance. If you want something stronger and are worried about RAM clearance, Thermalright makes big coolers where the heatpipes bend to the side to make room for the fan (maybe?) not ending up over the first RAM slot (like this: + Show Spoiler +), and they end up being much cheaper, I think. Honestly i really think there's two ways to go with overclocking ivy bridge, firstly the 212 evo sweet spot 4.4ghz or whatever type, and secondly just going for a notable performance gain over that, some CPU's hit a wall around 4.6ghz, others dont. Unlike other cpu's, you WILL be temperature limited with an ivy bridge CPU unless you a crazy person with a lot of knowledge (delidding) so i dont see much point on compromising on cooling. The NH-D14 is not good enough - why would any of these other single tower-single-fan heatsinks be? These in-between suggestions like higher-end air cooling may be mostly to hit the 4.4-4.7 GHz range without a really obnoxious level of noise under load. Anyway, ~4.4 GHz is probably enough for most people asking here.
So 4.4 Ghz would be easy to manage on a i5 3570K? Not fancy mb and cooling required?
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On March 10 2013 22:43 Ata wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 02:45 Shai wrote:On March 10 2013 02:24 skyR wrote:On March 10 2013 01:11 Shai wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok, continuing my post from a few pages ago, this is what I'm currently tinkering with, prices in Canadian, off of Newegg.ca
CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX750 V2 750W - $110
Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) - $227
Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" - $68
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 - $60
MSI Z77A-G43 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS - $129
SAPPHIRE 100355L Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 - $200
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - $20
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - $100
I added the graphics card even though I Wasn't planning on it for the free Tomb Raider and Bioshock, though I'm still on the fence about whether or not I'll buy a card. I have some questions about this build so far.
Can I get away with a 500W power supply? I would save potentially around $50.
Is this an appropriate mobo?
Why is this 2x4GB RAM $60 when others are more?
Finally, I have NO CLUE what I'm doing with a case. I Don't want anything flashy, just functional. No lights, no side window, but hopefully decent USB ports front and back as well as audio port front. What do I have to keep in mind for this? What are some options? I've read that the graphics card listed above is large and that may affect what case would work. The memory you have selected at $60 is 2x4gb 1866MHz cas9, you shouldn't be spending money on memory unless you have already wasted the most money you can on the rest of your computer since memory provides the least benefits for gaming and nearly every other task. Not sure what you're asking by why is this cheaper than others ... ? The others probably have tighter timings or higher frequency or brand name going for them. Yes a quality 500w power supply provides more than enough power for such a configuration. The Radeon HD7850 is relatively small, most of them measure somewhere around eight inches. Most cases from all the major manufacturers will have plenty of space for a mid-end card like the 7850. Not sure what you mean by decent USB ports..? Do you mean the chipset, USB3, the # of ports, or what? A case for the most part is just a box that houses components, literally every case has two front USB ports (most modern ones being two USB3) and front audio. USB is provided by the motherboard. MSI uses the standard Intel chipset, ASUS for the most part is Intel with a few being Asmedia, and Gigabyte uses Etron for most ports. Back I/O has nothing to do with the case, that's all the motherboard. Some simple cases would be Fractal Design Define R4, Fractal Design Arc Midi R2, Bitfenix Merc Alpha, Bitfenix Ghost, and basically every other case from them? NZXT Source would be another, and Corsair Carbide maybe. Nearly everything on Newegg is overpriced. Yes, I meant # of front USB ports. Everything on Newegg is overpriced in general, or in terms of cases? Because I've compared with NCIX and Newegg beats them out on almost everything. EDIT: Ok, jerking around with the build a bit to save money: CORSAIR CX500M 500W ATX12V v2.3 - $66 Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) - $227 Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" - $68 G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 - $51 Intel BOXDZ75ML45K LGA 1155 Intel Z75 - $110 SAPPHIRE 100355L Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 - $200 ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - $20 Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - $100 Rosewill CHALLENGER Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $55 Total ~ $897 CDN before shipping and taxes I cut about a hundred bucks from the build, with only well-reviewed parts. First of all, ncix has pricematching (not only with newegg but also with other CAN sites) Second, you must realise that even though part for part, you might not see much of a difference between newegg.ca and ncix price matched. (CORSAIR CX500M 500W @ $66 vs $59), in many cases, you can get something thats better than part x for the same price at ncix or similiar quality part at significant discount. Many people, including myself are willing to put a build together for you if you answer the questions in the OP. You can make it your decision (but also homework) from there to see if what we suggest is better than what you have found. gl
I answered the questions in the OP around 4 pages ago, but I guess I'll make a new post since some of my answers have changed.
What is your budget?
Around $900 Canadian before tax and shipping.
What is your resolution?
1680x1050
What are you using it for?
Emulating PS2, streaming, playing current games / near future releases (Skyrim, Bioshock Infinite, etc). I want a capable processor and am not concerned with hard drive (I'm happy with a 1-2TB SATA 7200RPM).
What is your upgrade cycle?
Willing to upgrade graphics card, cooling, RAM every couple of years, hope to keep the motherboard and CPU for 5 years.
When do you plan on building it?
Within a few weeks.
Do you plan on overclocking?
Not yet, but I'd like to keep the option open (ie a compatible MOBO/CPU)
Do you need an Operating System?
Yes, I'll be picking up a copy of Windows 7.
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
Not now, maybe in the future.
Where are you buying your parts from?
Anywhere. I have a local place, Memory Express, that will match and beat any online Canadian price by 25% of the difference, so we can shop around prices and I'll get it cheaper than the cheapest price.
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On March 11 2013 04:18 llIH wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 02:44 Myrmidon wrote:On March 11 2013 02:15 llIH wrote:On March 10 2013 11:37 Cyro wrote:On March 10 2013 06:11 llIH wrote:
I have another question.
The 3570K is the "best" cpu for sc2. (Some people in this thread said it some way like that) 1920x1080
1) what is the best laptop cpu for sc2?
2) What is the best desktop gpu for sc2
3) What is the best laptop gpu for sc2? With desktop CPU's, the 3570k costs only a couple hundred dollars - there is no superior option, so it makes a lot of sense to buy it. Its the ceiling where performance stops increasing - or arguably single threaded performance is literally the best of all intel CPU's, because you dont have to worry about hyperthreading or extra cores generating heat so you can overclock further. With laptop CPU's, the best CPU would just be the highest clocked ivy bridge quad core, but the price range differences are massive, and while you can build an ideal desktop that will outperform everything mid to lategame for something like $700 with literally no improvements possible for increasing sc2 framerate, having the "best" laptop i would not be suprised if it cost something like 3k. Best desktop GPU would be Geforce Titan followed by (in my opinion) gtx680 before hd7970, gtx670 - but you can max the game on a much weaker GPU, something like a hd 7770 or an (old) gtx460 - buying a good GPU just means you have 250fps instead of 100-150fps early game, because CPU pins you down anyway. What I meant was. Is there a laptop equivalent to the 3570K that is best suited to sc2? Same with gpu for desktop and laptop. (Already know 3570K is for desktop cpu) It's not that the i5-3570K is special or optimized for SC2 or anything like that. It's just the cheapest unlocked-multiplier (you can overclock it more than just some small arbitrary limitation) processor using Intel's Iatest processor architecture. Meaning, it's the same design as the other stuff, but you can run it at a higher clock speed to get higher performance. Unless you overclock it, it's just like any other current Intel Core i5, except that this one runs from 3.4-3.8 GHz. Actually, so does the i5-3570, and the i5-3550 isn't far behind, same for the i5-3470, and so on... i7-3770K is very slightly better from having 8MB instead of 6MB L3 cache and then possibly being able to overclock a little more on average. The hyperthreading is useless here. The difference is small enough to be within testing error for most game benchmarks. There's no unlocked-multiplier latest-gen laptop CPU except the i7-3940XM (and i7-3920XM), but you may be limited overclocking that by the laptop's cooling, voltage regulation (power delivery) hardware, and laptop's BIOS. It's also more like $1000 for just the chip. I don't know if Cyro forgot about this or just considers it out of contention based on price and feasibility. If you have some $3000 brick, you might be able to get performance like a desktop i5-3570K—at least to levels most people overclock to, not the enthusiast or subzero or whatever levels. On March 11 2013 02:31 Cyro wrote:On March 11 2013 01:40 Ropid wrote:On March 10 2013 22:40 wallyng106 wrote:
thanks for the reply.
I was thinking of getting 650w just because of the possibility of re-using it in the future. Is that something worth considering? But I'll look into the 450-500w products as well.
For cooling if I went with a CoolerMaster TPC 812 CPU that should give me cooler temperatures and the clearance for the RAM. Interesting about the overclocking though. Basically, that CM cooler is a bit of a dud with its flashy technology. The simple Hyper 212 Evo has the same performance. If you want something stronger and are worried about RAM clearance, Thermalright makes big coolers where the heatpipes bend to the side to make room for the fan (maybe?) not ending up over the first RAM slot (like this: + Show Spoiler +), and they end up being much cheaper, I think. Honestly i really think there's two ways to go with overclocking ivy bridge, firstly the 212 evo sweet spot 4.4ghz or whatever type, and secondly just going for a notable performance gain over that, some CPU's hit a wall around 4.6ghz, others dont. Unlike other cpu's, you WILL be temperature limited with an ivy bridge CPU unless you a crazy person with a lot of knowledge (delidding) so i dont see much point on compromising on cooling. The NH-D14 is not good enough - why would any of these other single tower-single-fan heatsinks be? These in-between suggestions like higher-end air cooling may be mostly to hit the 4.4-4.7 GHz range without a really obnoxious level of noise under load. Anyway, ~4.4 GHz is probably enough for most people asking here. So 4.4 Ghz would be easy to manage on a i5 3570K? Not fancy mb and cooling required?
As long as it's something like Xigmatek Gaia or equivalent and Asrock Z77 Pro3 or equivalent it should be quite simple. Ivy bridge's really easy to overclock up until like 4.5Ghz, after that it starts getting really hot and there's no significant gains from better air coolers.
Macho is the most cost-effective cooler by far if you want something a little better and it's silent. I'd call it the perfect air cooler.
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This is the best comparison I could find: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/super-cooler-lga-2011_6.html#sect1
The difference isn't really big with two fans on the NH-D14, so I'd guess 10c wouldn't be possible. If not looking at averages, one of the cores in their results table is 7c off, so maybe something weird could happen in practice. In any case, the way I'm reading those benchmarks, the Macho isn't built bad but its design only has place for up to two fans, not three.
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On March 11 2013 04:36 Ropid wrote:This is the best comparison I could find: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/super-cooler-lga-2011_6.html#sect1The difference isn't really big with two fans on the NH-D14, so I'd guess 10c wouldn't be possible. If not looking at averages, one of the cores in their results table is 7c off, so maybe something weird could happen in practice. In any case, the way I'm reading those benchmarks, the Macho isn't built bad but its design only has place for up to two fans, not three.
Yep and that's with another large chip, but this time overclocked so the power consumption is much higher (i7-3960X at 4.375 GHz and 1.385V), so I'd believe 3 fans on a NH-D14 would beat some decent single tower coolers by 10C in that kind of situation.
Do you still get those differences with a i5-3570k and its much lower power consumption overclocked, higher heat density, and smaller chip area?
On March 11 2013 04:27 Shai wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 10 2013 22:43 Ata wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 02:45 Shai wrote:On March 10 2013 02:24 skyR wrote:On March 10 2013 01:11 Shai wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok, continuing my post from a few pages ago, this is what I'm currently tinkering with, prices in Canadian, off of Newegg.ca
CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX750 V2 750W - $110
Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) - $227
Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" - $68
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 - $60
MSI Z77A-G43 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS - $129
SAPPHIRE 100355L Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 - $200
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - $20
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - $100
I added the graphics card even though I Wasn't planning on it for the free Tomb Raider and Bioshock, though I'm still on the fence about whether or not I'll buy a card. I have some questions about this build so far.
Can I get away with a 500W power supply? I would save potentially around $50.
Is this an appropriate mobo?
Why is this 2x4GB RAM $60 when others are more?
Finally, I have NO CLUE what I'm doing with a case. I Don't want anything flashy, just functional. No lights, no side window, but hopefully decent USB ports front and back as well as audio port front. What do I have to keep in mind for this? What are some options? I've read that the graphics card listed above is large and that may affect what case would work. The memory you have selected at $60 is 2x4gb 1866MHz cas9, you shouldn't be spending money on memory unless you have already wasted the most money you can on the rest of your computer since memory provides the least benefits for gaming and nearly every other task. Not sure what you're asking by why is this cheaper than others ... ? The others probably have tighter timings or higher frequency or brand name going for them. Yes a quality 500w power supply provides more than enough power for such a configuration. The Radeon HD7850 is relatively small, most of them measure somewhere around eight inches. Most cases from all the major manufacturers will have plenty of space for a mid-end card like the 7850. Not sure what you mean by decent USB ports..? Do you mean the chipset, USB3, the # of ports, or what? A case for the most part is just a box that houses components, literally every case has two front USB ports (most modern ones being two USB3) and front audio. USB is provided by the motherboard. MSI uses the standard Intel chipset, ASUS for the most part is Intel with a few being Asmedia, and Gigabyte uses Etron for most ports. Back I/O has nothing to do with the case, that's all the motherboard. Some simple cases would be Fractal Design Define R4, Fractal Design Arc Midi R2, Bitfenix Merc Alpha, Bitfenix Ghost, and basically every other case from them? NZXT Source would be another, and Corsair Carbide maybe. Nearly everything on Newegg is overpriced. Yes, I meant # of front USB ports. Everything on Newegg is overpriced in general, or in terms of cases? Because I've compared with NCIX and Newegg beats them out on almost everything. EDIT: Ok, jerking around with the build a bit to save money: CORSAIR CX500M 500W ATX12V v2.3 - $66 Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) - $227 Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" - $68 G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 - $51 Intel BOXDZ75ML45K LGA 1155 Intel Z75 - $110 SAPPHIRE 100355L Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 - $200 ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - $20 Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - $100 Rosewill CHALLENGER Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $55 Total ~ $897 CDN before shipping and taxes I cut about a hundred bucks from the build, with only well-reviewed parts. First of all, ncix has pricematching (not only with newegg but also with other CAN sites) Second, you must realise that even though part for part, you might not see much of a difference between newegg.ca and ncix price matched. (CORSAIR CX500M 500W @ $66 vs $59), in many cases, you can get something thats better than part x for the same price at ncix or similiar quality part at significant discount. Many people, including myself are willing to put a build together for you if you answer the questions in the OP. You can make it your decision (but also homework) from there to see if what we suggest is better than what you have found. gl I answered the questions in the OP around 4 pages ago, but I guess I'll make a new post since some of my answers have changed. What is your budget? Around $900 Canadian before tax and shipping. What is your resolution? 1680x1050 What are you using it for? Emulating PS2, streaming, playing current games / near future releases (Skyrim, Bioshock Infinite, etc). I want a capable processor and am not concerned with hard drive (I'm happy with a 1-2TB SATA 7200RPM). What is your upgrade cycle? Willing to upgrade graphics card, cooling, RAM every couple of years, hope to keep the motherboard and CPU for 5 years. When do you plan on building it? Within a few weeks. Do you plan on overclocking? Not yet, but I'd like to keep the option open (ie a compatible MOBO/CPU) Do you need an Operating System? Yes, I'll be picking up a copy of Windows 7. Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? Not now, maybe in the future. Where are you buying your parts from? Anywhere. I have a local place, Memory Express, that will match and beat any online Canadian price by 25% of the difference, so we can shop around prices and I'll get it cheaper than the cheapest price.
Which MemoryExpress location? They tend to list some good deals online, but then they're only valid at a location or two.
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On March 11 2013 04:44 Myrmidon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 04:36 Ropid wrote:This is the best comparison I could find: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/super-cooler-lga-2011_6.html#sect1The difference isn't really big with two fans on the NH-D14, so I'd guess 10c wouldn't be possible. If not looking at averages, one of the cores in their results table is 7c off, so maybe something weird could happen in practice. In any case, the way I'm reading those benchmarks, the Macho isn't built bad but its design only has place for up to two fans, not three. Yep and that's with another large chip, but this time overclocked so the power consumption is much higher (i7-3960X at 4.375 GHz and 1.385V), so I'd believe 3 fans on a NH-D14 would beat some decent single tower coolers by 10C in that kind of situation. Do you still get those differences with a i5-3570k and its much lower power consumption overclocked, higher heat density, and smaller chip area? Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 04:27 Shai wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 10 2013 22:43 Ata wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 02:45 Shai wrote:On March 10 2013 02:24 skyR wrote:On March 10 2013 01:11 Shai wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok, continuing my post from a few pages ago, this is what I'm currently tinkering with, prices in Canadian, off of Newegg.ca
CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX750 V2 750W - $110
Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) - $227
Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" - $68
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 - $60
MSI Z77A-G43 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS - $129
SAPPHIRE 100355L Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 - $200
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - $20
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - $100
I added the graphics card even though I Wasn't planning on it for the free Tomb Raider and Bioshock, though I'm still on the fence about whether or not I'll buy a card. I have some questions about this build so far.
Can I get away with a 500W power supply? I would save potentially around $50.
Is this an appropriate mobo?
Why is this 2x4GB RAM $60 when others are more?
Finally, I have NO CLUE what I'm doing with a case. I Don't want anything flashy, just functional. No lights, no side window, but hopefully decent USB ports front and back as well as audio port front. What do I have to keep in mind for this? What are some options? I've read that the graphics card listed above is large and that may affect what case would work. The memory you have selected at $60 is 2x4gb 1866MHz cas9, you shouldn't be spending money on memory unless you have already wasted the most money you can on the rest of your computer since memory provides the least benefits for gaming and nearly every other task. Not sure what you're asking by why is this cheaper than others ... ? The others probably have tighter timings or higher frequency or brand name going for them. Yes a quality 500w power supply provides more than enough power for such a configuration. The Radeon HD7850 is relatively small, most of them measure somewhere around eight inches. Most cases from all the major manufacturers will have plenty of space for a mid-end card like the 7850. Not sure what you mean by decent USB ports..? Do you mean the chipset, USB3, the # of ports, or what? A case for the most part is just a box that houses components, literally every case has two front USB ports (most modern ones being two USB3) and front audio. USB is provided by the motherboard. MSI uses the standard Intel chipset, ASUS for the most part is Intel with a few being Asmedia, and Gigabyte uses Etron for most ports. Back I/O has nothing to do with the case, that's all the motherboard. Some simple cases would be Fractal Design Define R4, Fractal Design Arc Midi R2, Bitfenix Merc Alpha, Bitfenix Ghost, and basically every other case from them? NZXT Source would be another, and Corsair Carbide maybe. Nearly everything on Newegg is overpriced. Yes, I meant # of front USB ports. Everything on Newegg is overpriced in general, or in terms of cases? Because I've compared with NCIX and Newegg beats them out on almost everything. EDIT: Ok, jerking around with the build a bit to save money: CORSAIR CX500M 500W ATX12V v2.3 - $66 Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) - $227 Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" - $68 G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 - $51 Intel BOXDZ75ML45K LGA 1155 Intel Z75 - $110 SAPPHIRE 100355L Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 - $200 ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - $20 Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - $100 Rosewill CHALLENGER Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $55 Total ~ $897 CDN before shipping and taxes I cut about a hundred bucks from the build, with only well-reviewed parts. First of all, ncix has pricematching (not only with newegg but also with other CAN sites) Second, you must realise that even though part for part, you might not see much of a difference between newegg.ca and ncix price matched. (CORSAIR CX500M 500W @ $66 vs $59), in many cases, you can get something thats better than part x for the same price at ncix or similiar quality part at significant discount. Many people, including myself are willing to put a build together for you if you answer the questions in the OP. You can make it your decision (but also homework) from there to see if what we suggest is better than what you have found. gl I answered the questions in the OP around 4 pages ago, but I guess I'll make a new post since some of my answers have changed. What is your budget? Around $900 Canadian before tax and shipping. What is your resolution? 1680x1050 What are you using it for? Emulating PS2, streaming, playing current games / near future releases (Skyrim, Bioshock Infinite, etc). I want a capable processor and am not concerned with hard drive (I'm happy with a 1-2TB SATA 7200RPM). What is your upgrade cycle? Willing to upgrade graphics card, cooling, RAM every couple of years, hope to keep the motherboard and CPU for 5 years. When do you plan on building it? Within a few weeks. Do you plan on overclocking? Not yet, but I'd like to keep the option open (ie a compatible MOBO/CPU) Do you need an Operating System? Yes, I'll be picking up a copy of Windows 7. Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? Not now, maybe in the future. Where are you buying your parts from? Anywhere. I have a local place, Memory Express, that will match and beat any online Canadian price by 25% of the difference, so we can shop around prices and I'll get it cheaper than the cheapest price. Which MemoryExpress location? They tend to list some good deals online, but then they're only valid at a location or two.
Winnipeg, though the worse their prices in store, the better, since they beat online prices in-store by 25% of the difference, as long as it's in stock.
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Whoops, what I really meant to say is that the deals are not available because of lack of stock. They'll list some price, but it's for a product that they have 1 of in stock at some location you're not at.
Case:
whichever of these you fancy: Cooler Master HAF 912, Cooler Master CM 690 II, Fractal Design Core 3000
or if you want noise dampening: NZXT H2 (current rev fixes some problems early reviews had), or spend up to Fractal Design Define R4
CPU: i5-3570k no question
CPU heatsink: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO or Zalman CNPS10X Performa
Motherboard: given the selection, unless you can find MSI Z77A-G43 for significantly cheaper, I'd move on up to Asus P8Z77M-Pro for $130 (or less)
hard drive: whatever suits you
DVD drive: whatever
The power supply selection really sucks at memoryexpress, as usual. If you pick something up, pricematch a Corsair CX500 I guess. Or just order this online for $73 and have something far superior:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182066
For emulating PS2, all these graphics cards are way overkill, even if you're planning on, uh, not going for accuracy and rendering at higher resolutions than native PS2. Get some kind of HD 7850, HD 7870, or GTX 660 if you want a decent value, for running modern game releases. There's room in the budget.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
Wow, that cooler is really a beast, maybe 10c is too much.. there'd be an advantage for a dual heatsink cooler like the nh-d14 but not nearly as big as i thought, it's not at all close to the 212 evo etc.
I think i would buy one for a bad chip, but not a top tier one, you could probably take something like 4.6ghz, 1.4v with one of those really well, but on a chip that would let you do 5ghz at 1.45-1.5v you kinda need every degree you can get, temps go up with frequency as well as voltage
If you are happy with lower tier overclock the evo is just fine at 1.2-1.25v or whatever
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On March 11 2013 05:34 Myrmidon wrote:Whoops, what I really meant to say is that the deals are not available because of lack of stock. They'll list some price, but it's for a product that they have 1 of in stock at some location you're not at. Case: whichever of these you fancy: Cooler Master HAF 912, Cooler Master CM 690 II, Fractal Design Core 3000 or if you want noise dampening: NZXT H2 (current rev fixes some problems early reviews had), or spend up to Fractal Design Define R4 CPU: i5-3570k no question CPU heatsink: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO or Zalman CNPS10X Performa Motherboard: given the selection, unless you can find MSI Z77A-G43 for significantly cheaper, I'd move on up to Asus P8Z77M-Pro for $130 (or less) hard drive: whatever suits you DVD drive: whatever The power supply selection really sucks at memoryexpress, as usual. If you pick something up, pricematch a Corsair CX500 I guess. Or just order this online for $73 and have something far superior: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182066For emulating PS2, all these graphics cards are way overkill, even if you're planning on, uh, not going for accuracy and rendering at higher resolutions than native PS2. Get some kind of HD 7850, HD 7870, or GTX 660 if you want a decent value, for running modern game releases. There's room in the budget.
Ok, this is what I'm looking at now.
Seagate 1TB Barracuda SATA III w/ 64MB Cache - $69.79 at Direct Canada
Pricematched to $68.49 at Memory Express
Intel Core™ i5-3570K Processor, 3.40GHz w/ 6MB Cache - $209.85 from Direct Canada
Pricematched to $204.82 at Memory Express
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium x64 OEM (64-bit) SP1 DVD - $72.68 from Lexi-Mart
Pricematched to $60.85 at Memory Express
Corsair Builder Series CX600 600W Power Supply - $59.99
G.SKILL RipjawsX Series 8GB PC3-12800 - $54.99
Asus DRW-24B1ST 24x DVD-RW Drive, SATA, Black, OEM - $19.99
Asus P8Z77-M PRO - $129.99
Fractal Design Core 3000 USB 3.0 Enthusiast Case, Black - $79.99
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO CPU Cooler - $28.44 at Direct Canada
Pricematched to $26.80 at Memory Express
For a total of $705.91. I think I'll hold off on a graphics card for now and use my old GT 430 till I pick one up.
Does this all look savvy?
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Looks fine to me at least.
$60 is more than I'd pay for Corsair CX usually, but other options are worse or more expensive.
$80 is a bit high for Core 3000, on second thought, but pick whatever you want. A case is something you can use for a long time.
$55 seems a bit much for RAM, but RAM prices are going up and there doesn't seem to be much cheaper. You can get 1333 MHz for $50, but $55 for 1600 MHz is okay too.
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On March 12 2013 02:14 Myrmidon wrote:
Looks fine to me at least.
$60 is more than I'd pay for Corsair CX usually, but other options are worse or more expensive.
$80 is a bit high for Core 3000, on second thought, but pick whatever you want. A case is something you can use for a long time.
$55 seems a bit much for RAM, but RAM prices are going up and there doesn't seem to be much cheaper. You can get 1333 MHz for $50, but $55 for 1600 MHz is okay too.
They are definitely going up. I bought RAM for 40 euro 2 months ago; the same RAM is over 50 now.
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Radeon 7790 just revealed -- low-power 22nm process, on GCN 2.0 architecture as a preview for the 8000 series, 2GB gddr5, 768 shaders. If it runs on low power without being buggy on early drivers, gets 10% less average performance than a 7850 as advertised (these first two are pretty big ifs IMO), and retails for $140-150 like it's supposed to, it should be a really strong buy at that price point.
People aren't sure if AMD is factory overclocking its memory to get to that 10% less but if not then that bodes well for some solid performance per clock increases with the new chips at the end of the year, considering 7770-->7850 is currently about a 40% performance jump.
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On March 12 2013 01:57 Shai wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 05:34 Myrmidon wrote:Whoops, what I really meant to say is that the deals are not available because of lack of stock. They'll list some price, but it's for a product that they have 1 of in stock at some location you're not at. Case: whichever of these you fancy: Cooler Master HAF 912, Cooler Master CM 690 II, Fractal Design Core 3000 or if you want noise dampening: NZXT H2 (current rev fixes some problems early reviews had), or spend up to Fractal Design Define R4 CPU: i5-3570k no question CPU heatsink: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO or Zalman CNPS10X Performa Motherboard: given the selection, unless you can find MSI Z77A-G43 for significantly cheaper, I'd move on up to Asus P8Z77M-Pro for $130 (or less) hard drive: whatever suits you DVD drive: whatever The power supply selection really sucks at memoryexpress, as usual. If you pick something up, pricematch a Corsair CX500 I guess. Or just order this online for $73 and have something far superior: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182066For emulating PS2, all these graphics cards are way overkill, even if you're planning on, uh, not going for accuracy and rendering at higher resolutions than native PS2. Get some kind of HD 7850, HD 7870, or GTX 660 if you want a decent value, for running modern game releases. There's room in the budget. Ok, this is what I'm looking at now. Seagate 1TB Barracuda SATA III w/ 64MB Cache - $69.79 at Direct Canada Pricematched to $68.49 at Memory Express Intel Core™ i5-3570K Processor, 3.40GHz w/ 6MB Cache - $209.85 from Direct Canada Pricematched to $204.82 at Memory Express Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium x64 OEM (64-bit) SP1 DVD - $72.68 from Lexi-Mart Pricematched to $60.85 at Memory Express Corsair Builder Series CX600 600W Power Supply - $59.99 G.SKILL RipjawsX Series 8GB PC3-12800 - $54.99 Asus DRW-24B1ST 24x DVD-RW Drive, SATA, Black, OEM - $19.99 Asus P8Z77-M PRO - $129.99 Fractal Design Core 3000 USB 3.0 Enthusiast Case, Black - $79.99 Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO CPU Cooler - $28.44 at Direct Canada Pricematched to $26.80 at Memory Express For a total of $705.91. I think I'll hold off on a graphics card for now and use my old GT 430 till I pick one up. Does this all look savvy?
Looks great. (shitty deals on NCIX this week)
I am surprised that you have xfire / SLI in mind (and willing to spend more money on the motherboard) when you are ok with a GT 430.
You might want to spend more on the CPU cooler if you plan on upgrading it later.
Nice find on the Windows 7, hope they will pricematch it for you.
Enjoy 
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Hey guys, I'm looking for some advice on upgrading my PC. I'm mostly aiming to play and stream Starcraft II HotS on Ultra graphics, and play Arma 3 on high graphics. Currently when playing Arma 3 alpha (obviously not optimized yet) my fps floats around 20, and in during long games of SC2 I experience a lot of stuttering / fps drops.
Specs:
+ Show Spoiler +CPU: I7 920 @ 2.67
GPU: EVGA GT 550 TI 1GB
Motherboard: Gigabyte EX58-UD34
RAM: Corsair 6GB DDR3
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate
All stock cooling, 2 800 rpm fans inside.
Temps:
+ Show Spoiler +GPU:
Idle: 43C~
Arma 3: 70C~
SC2: 68C~
CPU
Idle: 50C~
Arma: 60C~
SC2: 58C~
I'm interested to know which parts I would benefit the most from upgrading/any good recommendations. For a budget I'll say around £400. I haven't overclocked anything on this system.
And thanks for all the info in the OP!
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EPT![[image loading]](http://benchmarkreviews.com/images/reviews/cooling/hr-02/thermalright_macho_hr02_bottom_34.jpg)
