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When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. |
^ Overclocking is a hobby unto it's own.
Here's some things I've done recently:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1324029/fixing-broken-pins-phenom-955/0_100#post_18615198
Taking a $31 phenom ii 955 with 5 broken pins and 100 bent ones and making it work (and overclock to 3.6+)
http://www.overclock.net/t/959145/jerryrigging-mofset-heatsinks/0_100#post_12741129
Taking a $30 motherboard, sawing a heatsink into pieces, attaching it to the VRMs, and putting a christmas tree toy fan on top to make it perform like a high end motherboard
It's a hobby that you can do with no money at all, or a lot of money (custom water loop custom built high-end woodworked case...)
Dont worry too much about overclocking. Just get a K edition processor, a good quality motherboard (ie never buy msi, get a quality VRM phase set-up, start here:
http://www.overclock.net/a/about-vrms-mosfets-motherboard-safety-with-high-tdp-processors
That's literally all a motherboard is:
1. do the holes fit (cpu socket, pcix16 for gpu, 2 of them if you want sli/crossfire)
2. chipset (basically, will the board allow overclocking, which any motherboard that you buy pretty much will, becaue the only people buying motherboards are custom builders, obviously, and if it allows sli/crossfire, which to many people isnt important, especially for budget builds)
3. VRM quality (which only matters for overclocks, although in the case of shit msi boards and 3+1 power phases, it can be dangerous even at stock)
You can always upgrade to a heatsink, fans, closed water system, custom loop, later on. That's what's great about building a PC. I would actually recommend you upgrade along the way instead of all at once.
For example, over 70% of all reported OCN motherboard blow outs, occurred because people switched from stock radial cooling (blows down onto the mobo) which the motherboard is rated for, designed around, and which cools critical components like ram, VRM, and chipset while cooling the cpu, and switching to non-stock cooling (ie tower or water cooling, which no longer blows down onto the motherboard, causing the cpu temps to drop, whcih is great, but causes other components to heat up, which can be deadly, especially with how many shit motherboards are out there).
So get a decent motherboard. Or, get a motherboard so cheap that you truly dont care if it takes down your whole system if it blows (because that's what WILL happen, it's also what I consciously did, but i did a ton of modding to make it okay, and i have 3 discrete temperature diodes monitoring my VRM temps lol).
A good start is just get a K edition, do some minor overclocking, figure out where you want to go, what is holding you back, and buy a new cooler as necessary (ie you want to underclock or undervolt, stay on stock cooling, especially with good binning or revision, if you want to stay on stock volts, get a good budget cooler like the 212, you want to increase volts for 24/7 usage, get a closed loop budget water cooling system or high end air system, well youll know what your doing by then).
Also, overclocking results in lots of accessory components - thermal paste, case fans, heatsinks, spot cooling, brackets. I'd recommend you seriously budget up your build so you have extra money left over for case fans, new heatsinks, et cetera. For example, any CL 9 1.5volt RAM from a major brand will work perfectly. Used components from ebay is a great way to find steals (ive bought a $60GPU for $25, a $80 water cooling loop for $20, a $100 cpu for $31 there).
i5-2500k, asus motherboard, cheapest 1333mhz cl9 1.5v ram from major brands for 4-8GB, preferably single channel/stick, a cardboard box for a case would work but just look up a good budget case that you like based on how cool it looks, because that's really all a case is, 400+ watt PSU that's 80%+ bronze efficiency (you really need a high quality psu, that's much more important than the wattage on it, the reason wattage requirements are so high is because so many shit PSUs out there that at 800w blow up when a high quality 400w could easily handle the load, any hdd (recycle an old one, whatever), others can speak of what GPU to get.
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Thank you So much in taking the time for writing this for me. Hahaha That crazy with your overclocking skills!  This will really help me with my first build! Thank you again!
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Not all motherboards are capable of multiplier overclocking... Only Z77 (and Z75) are. If you are not multiplier overclocking with Sandybridge / Ivybridge than you are being a retard.
You do not need extra case fans and whatever other crap that was mentioned. You just need an aftermarket heatsink and you'll get to 4GHz+ with very little effort. You do not need high-end air or liquid to increase voltages...
Concerning over VRMs over other things is an utter joke for like literally everyone. Overclocking enthusiasts would actually spend money on a high-end board, they would not purchase bottom of the barrel shit.
There is nothing wrong with current MSI motherboards. On the other hand, ASUS overprices all their fucking boards. You get absolute shit unless you are spending $190+ for a P8Z77-V or better.
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On November 17 2012 14:04 MysteryMeat1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 13:27 skyR wrote:
That's a terrible build.
Switch out the FX4100 for a Core i3.
Switch out the AMD motherboard for a B75.
Switch out the TX650 for a Rosewill Capstone 450
2x4gb 1600MHz cas9 memory is like $35, not $40.
Get a Radeon HD7850. Ah thx alot, this is my first time building a computer, and im a super noob so i wanted to check with you guys before i even bought anytihing. Since im a super noob when it comes to these things do i get the 220$ asus one or the 175$ gigabyte one. Also whats the difference between the 1gb and 2gb between them.
$220 is too much for a 7850.
In layman's term, more vram = higher settings / resolution. If you plan on playing the latest games (like Crysis, BF3 - not Blizzard games) on reasonably high settings, get 2GB.
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Could any one else look at the bottom pg 1274 and help me with my build? Thanks!
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So after doing some more research, thank you soooooooo much skyR i have come down to the following
Athena Power CA-GSB01DA Black 0.8mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - OEM 23$
Western Digital WD VelociRaptor WD3000HLHX 300GB 10000 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive 70$
HIS H785F2G2M Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video 200$ with 20$ mail in rebate and (Farcry 3 wee)
GIGABYTE GA-B75M-D3V LGA 1155 Intel B75 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard 70$ (The only problem i have with this board is that it doesn't have the greatest reviews however the 2X4gb ram is included. It is also a micro and Belial said they are crap.
Intel Core i3-2100 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz LGA 1155 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 2000 BX80623I32100 120$
toal is 520$ including shipping. Leaves enough room for a os if I can't get one for free. And if i can get an os then i can buy a better monitor.
I think ill end up buying the hardrive now since it is really cheap, and wait until cyber monday to see if any additional parts go on sale.
I guess my question is, how is the build, and maybe reccomend a better mobo as well as check the graphics card im still a little unsure but it seems to be a decent price for a 2gb and what is the difference between a 32 mb cache and a 64 mb cache.
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Hello guys. Right now I have Core 2 Duo E8400 and GTX260. I want to upgrade, but I have 3 options to go with:
a) Better CPU
Core i5 3470 + Radeon 7770
b) Better GPU
Core i3 3220 + 7850 2GB
c) Less expensive
Core i3 3220 + 7770
I'm not an avid gamer, the only games I play is StarCraft II and Diablo III. No rendering/encoding/streaming, no heavy apps like Photoshop or Autocad. Only browsing, Office, and light gaming as I mentioned.
Btw, my resolution is 1980x1200, 24" monitor. Also, how will perform i3 and 7770 in SCII/D3 in such res?
Help me choose the optimal combo. Thanks.
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2500k selling for $99 at Microcenter atm.
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Hi guys!
I'm not "building" a computer, but I'm helping out a friend in getting a new graphics card and figured I'd turn to you guys for help. He will be getting this card as soon as possible, but he's located in Korea so there's no "Black Friday" sales for him. But suggest anyway! I'm willing to ship if necessary.
Resolution: 1366x768
CPU : intel celeron G530
MAIN BOARD : american megatrends H61MLV
POWER : M_POWER 450TA (450W)
What graphics card would you suggest for <$100~150? Cheaper the better...
He's looking to play Skyrim, GTA IV, Sleeping Dogs, Call of Duty series, and even possibly Battlefield 3.
Also, would he need a new power supply? Thanks!
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On November 18 2012 02:01 Squidget101 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Could any one else look at the bottom pg 1274 and help me with my build? Thanks!
You are buying near Christmas. Boxing week is one of the biggest sales of the year in Canada so giving a build weeks in advance is sort of pointless.
On November 18 2012 03:06 MysteryMeat1 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So after doing some more research, thank you soooooooo much skyR i have come down to the following
Athena Power CA-GSB01DA Black 0.8mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - OEM 23$
Western Digital WD VelociRaptor WD3000HLHX 300GB 10000 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive 70$
HIS H785F2G2M Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video 200$ with 20$ mail in rebate and (Farcry 3 wee)
GIGABYTE GA-B75M-D3V LGA 1155 Intel B75 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard 70$ (The only problem i have with this board is that it doesn't have the greatest reviews however the 2X4gb ram is included. It is also a micro and Belial said they are crap.
Intel Core i3-2100 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz LGA 1155 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 2000 BX80623I32100 120$
toal is 520$ including shipping. Leaves enough room for a os if I can't get one for free. And if i can get an os then i can buy a better monitor.
I think ill end up buying the hardrive now since it is really cheap, and wait until cyber monday to see if any additional parts go on sale.
I guess my question is, how is the build, and maybe reccomend a better mobo as well as check the graphics card im still a little unsure but it seems to be a decent price for a 2gb and what is the difference between a 32 mb cache and a 64 mb cache.
You're missing a power supply?
I don't know why you think the motherboard is shit. It's just a typical B75 motherboard with a 4 star rating (which is good...).
There are still improvements to be made though..
Get a core i3 3220 in a bundle (probably with a motherboard). Sapphire 7850 is better than the HIS, you cana probably get it in a combo with memory or something else.
If you're concerned about storage performance. Get an SSD instead... A Velociraptor is a waste of money.
On November 18 2012 05:13 JokerPower wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hello guys. Right now I have Core 2 Duo E8400 and GTX260. I want to upgrade, but I have 3 options to go with:
a) Better CPU
Core i5 3470 + Radeon 7770
b) Better GPU
Core i3 3220 + 7850 2GB
c) Less expensive
Core i3 3220 + 7770
I'm not an avid gamer, the only games I play is StarCraft II and Diablo III. No rendering/encoding/streaming, no heavy apps like Photoshop or Autocad. Only browsing, Office, and light gaming as I mentioned.
Btw, my resolution is 1980x1200, 24" monitor. Also, how will perform i3 and 7770 in SCII/D3 in such res?
Help me choose the optimal combo. Thanks.
A core i3 3220 and a Radeon HD7770 is fine for Starcraft II and Diablo III.
On November 18 2012 05:21 Eun_Star wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hi guys!
I'm not "building" a computer, but I'm helping out a friend in getting a new graphics card and figured I'd turn to you guys for help. He will be getting this card as soon as possible, but he's located in Korea so there's no "Black Friday" sales for him. But suggest anyway! I'm willing to ship if necessary.
Resolution: 1366x768
CPU : intel celeron G530
MAIN BOARD : american megatrends H61MLV
POWER : M_POWER 450TA (450W)
What graphics card would you suggest for <$100~150? Cheaper the better...
He's looking to play Skyrim, GTA IV, Sleeping Dogs, Call of Duty series, and even possibly Battlefield 3.
Also, would he need a new power supply? Thanks!
A Radeon HD7750 would be more than capable of playing on reasonably high settings at that resolution. If you're not concerned about high settings than you can go for something less expensive like a 6670 or 6570.
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K so i think this might be it or quite close.
I have the core I3 for 100$ on tigerdirect. I'll keep the same motherboard from before since its cheap and rated fine as long as i avoid DOA.
Saphire 7850 for 200$ with rebate from newegg since its not any cheaper from the other sites listed in this thread.
And as for the hardrive i'm thinking about switching it to Seagate Barracuda 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive for 50$ Since thats also pretty cheap, only thing im really worried about is they said its fragile but its not like im moving my desktop anyway.
power supply is the one you recommended earlier.
Rosewill CAPSTONE Series CAPSTONE-450 450W Continuous @ 50°C, 80 PLUS GOLD Certified, Single +12V Rail, ATX12V v2.31 / EPS12V v2.92, SLI Ready, CrossFire Ready, Active - PFC Power Supply 65$
total is 493$ not including shipping.
Would it also be worth it to upgrade the i3 to an i5 or to get a better monitor.
How much would the i5 affect performance for gaming. Is it worth the price increase?
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Can someone help me select a replacement heatsink? My CPUs are running really hot these days so I think I need to get an aftermarket cooler. Only problem is, my fan is pretty much touching my RAM sticks, so I don't want to get a heatsink that's too big.
CPU: i5-2400
Motherboard: Intel DH67CL
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You do not need extra case fans and whatever other crap that was mentioned. You just need an aftermarket heatsink and you'll get to 4GHz+ with very little effort. You do not need high-end air or liquid to increase voltages...
Entirely depends on your needs. You'll definitely need extra case fans if your ambient temps are high.
And a hyper212 will work for most overclocks and slight voltage increases, but higher voltage levels and frequencies it won't be enough. There's a reason people get d14s, thermalrights, megalehems, liquid, etc.
Concerning over VRMs over other things is an utter joke for like literally everyone. Overclocking enthusiasts would actually spend money on a high-end board, they would not purchase bottom of the barrel shit.
VRMs is really the biggest and really the only factor that matters when picking a motherboard (a mobo with decent VRMs is going to have overclockability and probably SLI too). It's literally the only reason you'd pick one motherboard over another (VRM quality, and VRM quality to price, really).
There's plenty of cheap boards that are great for overclocking, and there's MANY expensive boards, that are total shit and worse than low end boards. Biostar, for example, makes some great cheap, low end motherboards that are much stronger and quality than many MSi boards priced much higher with larger phases, because of the quality of the parts.
Asus is expensive for a reason, they are one of the few brands with Over-current Protection. It's why blow-outs on Asus is just about unheard of.
And there's a lot wrong with current MSi boards lol. Anyone can look at the parts and see their total shit, and all it takes is a simple google search of "msi model X blow out" to see how many reports occur with them. You can talk about high quality all day long but at the end of the day when a certain motherboard (and certain brand) just has hundreds of reports of being blown out, you should probably avoid them.
Would it also be worth it to upgrade the i3 to an i5 or to get a better monitor.
How much would the i5 affect performance for gaming. Is it worth the price increase?
Depends what games your playing. And, what cpu you get depends on what monitor you have (kinda funny, in your case). What are you doing? If it's for general gaming, I'd recommend get the cheapre cpu so you can upgrade your monitor. The i3 is more than powerful enough for today's games and tommorow's games, while a nicer monitor can be appreciated by any of today's games. Gaming performance is generally more about the GPU anyways, with the exception of a few cpu based games like sc2 (in which case minimum and avg fps is cpu dependent, but the ability to run higher graphics is gpu dependent, although sc2 is so outdated now any gpu will be fine).
Can someone help me select a replacement heatsink? My CPUs are running really hot these days so I think I need to get an aftermarket cooler. Only problem is, my fan is pretty much touching my RAM sticks, so I don't want to get a heatsink that's too big.
CPU: i5-2400
Motherboard: Intel DH67CL
Everyone is going to tell you to get the Hyper 212+ unless there's another cpu cooler for a ridiculosly low price for some special occassion or used, or you need much much more performance and have the money. It should fit just fine, the heatsink is raised in a way to be above ram, even if the cpu socket is too close to the ram. $15 on ebay or so, $20-30 new. Really cheap.
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On November 18 2012 16:38 Belial88 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +You do not need extra case fans and whatever other crap that was mentioned. You just need an aftermarket heatsink and you'll get to 4GHz+ with very little effort. You do not need high-end air or liquid to increase voltages... Entirely depends on your needs. You'll definitely need extra case fans if your ambient temps are high. And a hyper212 will work for most overclocks and slight voltage increases, but higher voltage levels and frequencies it won't be enough. There's a reason people get d14s, thermalrights, megalehems, liquid, etc. Concerning over VRMs over other things is an utter joke for like literally everyone. Overclocking enthusiasts would actually spend money on a high-end board, they would not purchase bottom of the barrel shit. VRMs is really the biggest and really the only factor that matters when picking a motherboard (a mobo with decent VRMs is going to have overclockability and probably SLI too). It's literally the only reason you'd pick one motherboard over another (VRM quality, and VRM quality to price, really). There's plenty of cheap boards that are great for overclocking, and there's MANY expensive boards, that are total shit and worse than low end boards. Biostar, for example, makes some great cheap, low end motherboards that are much stronger and quality than many MSi boards priced much higher with larger phases, because of the quality of the parts. Asus is expensive for a reason, they are one of the few brands with Over-current Protection. It's why blow-outs on Asus is just about unheard of. And there's a lot wrong with current MSi boards lol. Anyone can look at the parts and see their total shit, and all it takes is a simple google search of "msi model X blow out" to see how many reports occur with them. You can talk about high quality all day long but at the end of the day when a certain motherboard (and certain brand) just has hundreds of reports of being blown out, you should probably avoid them.
Please link to the numerous reports of MSI Z68 or Z77 blowing up because this is the first time I've heard of such a claim.
ASUS is expensive because it can be, not because of OCP which is available with literally every brand.
VRMs is literally one of the least important factors when it comes to buying a motherboard. It's not even a fucking factor for 99% of consumers.
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VRMs is literally one of the least important factors when it comes to buying a motherboard. It's not even a fucking factor for 99% of consumers.
Just because 99% of people have no clue what they are doing, doesn't mean they they know what they are doing. As evidenced in this thread, you see people all the time blowing money on stuff like i7s and 16+ GB when they have no idea what they are doing and shouldn't be buying such things. People just buy expensive shit because they dont know better sometimes. That basically applies to 99% of people who buy Mac/prebuilt desktops.
It's THE most important factor when buying a motherboard, and the only one really. SLI isn't important for most people, and it's not much more expensive to find a board that is SLI capable. There's sub-$50 motherboards for AMD and intel, socket doesnt particularly influence price (aside from intel being slightly more, and i7 boards). Overclockability is nice, but most discrete motherboards are going to have a chipset that allows overclocking. The cheapest motherboard I could find for my AM3 system had a 770 chipset, and this is true today if you look on newegg.
High end msi boards are fine. It's their 4+1 phase boards that tend to blow. And their high end boards are high end for their VRMs. Yes, asus can be expensive, and there's been reports of them blowing out too. MSI is just catastrophic at the budget level, and there's not much reason to get a high end board if you aren't overclocking, and you can find boards at a decent price level, without spending a ton. Now obviously at $30-40 you are hard pressed to find a board that isn't suicidal if you plan to overclock, but even if you dont plan to overclock you want to avoid certain power phase designs.
It's about buying smart with motherboards, more than buying a certain kind. But that's all a motherboard is, the quality of the power it gives to a CPU. There's really no other reason to pay more for one board over another, except a few dollars maybe for sli or certain holes (more ram slots, usb, etc).
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5930 Posts
VRMs is literally the least important component unless you're talking about circa 2008 hardware. Fortunately, Intel is big on power and heat. So they can dodge the brick wall that is ARM. The last time it really mattered was with Nehalem and well...Nehalem is two generations old (three if Lynnfield counts) and is on a much more primitive process.
4+1 phase VRM is perfectly fine for moderate overclocks, the overclocks anyone sensible is going to do. It can probably do higher overclocks if you're sensible about it. What era do you live in? We live in the era where Intel processors overclocked at 4.7ghz@1.35V draw a similar amount of power as a stock Phenom II X6. VRMs are basically a non-issue for a typical user.
I haven't heard of any Intel MSI boards blowing up...the low end boards like the MSI Z77A-G41 aren't good at it but they don't blow unless you're trying to get it to do something it can't do. I've heard of MSI boards blowing up while trying to handle Phenom II X6s but that's a situation where a billion power phases are mandatory because of the ungodly huge power draw. That's irrelevant in this day and age because no one uses AMD processors anymore. And yes, all Intel MSI motherboards currently have Over Current Protection or some form of it.
If you want to blow money on a motherboard, people generally know the reason why. I mean if you take this shit seriously, you might as well pay extra for NF200 PCIe switches and properly implemented BIOS settings for frequencies and voltages.
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On November 19 2012 00:35 Womwomwom wrote: I've heard of MSI boards blowing up while trying to handle Phenom II X6s but that's a situation where a billion power phases are mandatory because of the ungodly huge power draw.
hapenned to me juste 3 months ago 
good waranty though can't complain about that, got a new one 6 weeks later
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Im thinking of purchasing a laptop soon when the Black Friday and Cyber Monday deals are reasonable. Its for school and various other work as I use a lot of CAD and Adobe programs. And workstation laptops are just not worth the investment as I'm aiming for the cheapest possible, anything below 800$ is my target and at least 17".
I suppose when choose the CPU will be priority, a decent GPU to go a long with it and adequate RAM which is nothing nowadays. I'll hold back on a SSD unless its the price is again, reasonable. And I do work on my home PC which I built mainly for gaming a few years ago with various upgrades since then and its adequate for the tasks at hand.
PC @ Home:
i5 760 @ stock (Never had the chance to OC it)
12GB DDR3 1600
GTX 560Ti 1GB
edit: I'm in the States so Newegg, Dell or other prebuilt systems from retailers would be fine. I'm not sure about custom sites, though I've bought a laptop for someone from Sager.
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Want to do a build for my little sister for christmas, just need CPU, RAM PSU and storage
i'm on a low budget at sec so wanted your opinion if this is good enough or should i wait for something more (the computer will just be for gaming)
so AMD athlon II X3 450 (for games like crysis, COD, skyrim, etc...), going for a phenom II x4 955 is 20€ more if i could avoid it
random 2x2 gb ram
PSU is where i'm most sceptic about, would something like the ANTEC basiq 350 be enough? (hd6870 for gpu)
and for the storage as she already has a 500gb external hdd
so i was thinking, getting a cheap SSD (crucial V4 64gb?mb128? its not that much more, 50 vs 70€ if i recall right for somewhat a lot of space), and using the external HDD for storage?
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EPT
