• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:11
CEST 17:11
KST 00:11
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Why doesnt SC2 scene costream tournaments Who will win EWC 2025? Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Pro gamer house photos BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL Soulkey Muta Micro Map?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 802 users

Improved Terran Macro Mechanic

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Normal
skypacer
Profile Joined July 2003
China174 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-16 01:54:01
July 14 2009 17:43 GMT
#1
The core of my Terran macro mechanic is still the Orbital Center, so if you could understand how my OC works, you’d get what I say easily. The thread is a bit too long, meaning it is a huge challenge to both my English and your patience.

Note: all datum below can be modified if needed.
-------------------------------------------

My Orbital Center

◆ Has a maximum energy of 200.

◆ Can produce 2 units:

1.SCV (S).

2.Mule (M).
cost: 25 mineral, 0 gas
supply: 0
build time: 8 seconds
(Note: mule has a permanent life)
+ Show Spoiler +
Description:

1. Imagine that orbital center is protoss carrier, then mules are just interceptors that can only gather minerals rather than attack.

2. Mules are produced through a separate production line, meaning you can produce one SCV and one mule simultaneously in an Orbital Center.

3. Once a mule is ready, it will go out of the Orbital Center and gather minerals nearby automatically.
(Just imagine what an interceptor will do when it is ready and there are enemy units around).

4. Mules gather minerals in a totally different way from that of SCVs, so they won't affect SCVs' mineral gathering and vice versa.

One mule deals with two mineral patches at a time, bringing back 12 minerals every 15 seconds if it is at full capacity. You need 4 mules to fully cover a mineral line with 8 patches, and an Orbital Center can hold up to 5 mules.

5. The most important thing is that Mule have a maximum energy reserve of 20 points, and mineral-gathering cost it 10 energy per trip.
Once there is not sufficient energy, mule will stand still, doing nothing but waiting for its energy to recover.

6. It is worth noting that mule's energy regenerates extremely slow, and won't regenerate at all when mining, therefore one of the Orbital Center's skill, the "Distant Energy Charge" is essential if you want to get the most out of mules.


◆ Has 4 skills:

1. Scan Sweep (C)
- Target: anywhere on the map. (AOE)
- Energy cost: 50

2. Production Acceleration (A)
- Target: any of your production buildings, i.e. a command center, a barrack, a factory or a starport.
- Energy cost: 75
+ Show Spoiler +
Description:

1. An example of how it works:
Select an Orbital Center, press “A” and left click a factory, then the tank currently built in the factory will be produced 20% faster.

2. The acceleration effect fades away as soon as this tank is completed.


3. Distant Energy Charge (E)
- Target: any allied unit having energy. (AOE)
- Energy cost: 50
+ Show Spoiler +
Description:

1. How it works:
Select an Orbital Center, press “C” and left click an allied psionic unit, then it will have up to 75 energy restored instantly, while other allied units around it will gain up to 25 energy.

2. Note: Once a unit is Energy-Charged, it cannot be charged again within 20 seconds. That is to say, if you "Energy Charge" a ghost three times in succession, it will only gain 75 energy at most rather than 225.


4. Reinforcing Drop Pod (D)
- Target: any of your ground units, except for Thors and Mules.
- Energy cost: 125.
- Resource required: depends on use.
- Supply required: depends on use, 4 at most.
- Cool down: 60 seconds.
(After your Command Center is upgraded into an Orbital Center, You have to wait 60 seconds before you can use this skill)
+ Show Spoiler +
Description:

1. Use this skill on a single ground unit, then a drop pod will land nearby in seconds, from which spawns a small squad (taking up 4 supply at most) of the same units as the one you target.

2. This skill need not only energy but also minerals and maybe gas, which equal to the actual cost of the troops you summon.

3. Since the limit supply for a reinforcing troop is 4, you can call down a squad of one of the followings per drop:
- 4 scvs or marines or reapers (4 supply);
- 2 marauders or hellions (4 supply);
- 1 ghost or tank (3 supply).

4. Examples of how it works:

Select your Orbital Center, press D and left click a marine of your own, then you'll see a drop pod with 4 marines inside coming down from the sky. At least 200 minerals and 4 surplus supply are required.

Doing the same thing on a tank will bring you a drop pod with 1 tank in it, costing 200 minerals / 100 gas and 3 supply.

5. The drop pod itself is a permanent structure with 200 hp that grant you visual field around. It won't disappear for no reason.

6. Note: if you cannot produce an unit, you cannot call down any of them. For example, Reinforcing Drop Pod won’t work at all if you use it on a ghost while all of your Ghost Academies are destroyed.


More explanations about my macro mechanic:
+ Show Spoiler +

1. This macro mechanic focuses on not only mineral gathering, but also troop producing, decision making and tactics employing. I think it may add to the depth of the game as well as encourage exciting and even radical game play, while it is not hard to be balanced.

2.When watching battle report 3, Many of my friends who don't play Starcraft said that Terran's macro mechanic was kinda weird, you just called down an awesome drop pod, yet to see the dull mules coming out. And I myself think that things with a timed life such as the current mule are not of Terran style. Besides, the current Orbital skill, the "Supply Drop" is not useful and inventive enough that you cannot expect too much out of it.

3. The basic way to use the mechanic:
Produce 4 mules as soon as possible then go back to your Orbital Center every 30 seconds, use "Instant Energy Charge" on a mule, to make sure that all mules in this mineral line are benefited as well, thus you can keep the mules working all the time and make the most out of them, to expect for a good amount of extra resource in return.

4. The basic way is far from being the only way, for you may often tend to use other skills, or use “Energy Charge” on other units. Here are several examples:
+ Show Spoiler +

- You are plotting a high-tier unit rush, say a stupid Thor rush, you’ll be willing to invest 75 energy to the factory, so that Thor can come out 12 seconds earlier.

- A big battle breaks out and your front position is in jeopardy, you’ll not hesitate a moment to calls down as many drop pod as possible, despite the massive energy cost.

- You just suffered from a severe harassment, after which many of your SCVs were killed. Under such adverse circumstances, you’d use “reinforcing drop pod” to call down 4 additional SCVs, and even use “Production Acceleration” on your CCs to quickly recover your damaged economy.

- You want to do a tank drop on the cliff near enemy base as early as possible. You may invest 75x2 energy on your factory and after that another 75 energy on your starport, to accelerate the production of both tanks and medivac dropship. After you successfully deploy two tanks on the cliff, you would like to see another tank coming down, so you’ll invest 125 energy to call down “Reinforcing Drop Pod” if your Orbital Center still has enough energy

Combing the “Reinforcing Drop Pod” and “Production Acceleration” with your imagination means infinite tactics, while the “Distant Energy drop” is not Mules’ private treasure, it belongs to all units having energy. It may mean longer cloaking duration for ghosts/banshees, more hunter missiles for ravens, to be able utilize Yamato Cannon more often for battle cruisers, etc. So you may not deem it as a boring skill to just increase macro, I think even casual gamers may like it.

5. Note that Reinforcing Drop Pod cannot replace medivac dropship, for it only drop corresponding units near the current one, to say that you cannot call down a tank on the cliff if there’s no tank there, or you cannot call down SCVs on an island unless you have at least one SCV there.

6. You may realize from above that the new drop pod mechanic is not over-powered. It partly is a Terran answer to Protoss’ warp-in and Zerg’s Nydus cannel, not as powerful but still cool and useful. And the ability of Production Acceleration can be seen as a solution to MBS. Rather than hotkey all your barracks/factories/starports to a single key and click X repeatedly to produce units, you need interact more with production buildings if you want more from them, which is also an important part of macro, or more exactly here, the base management.

7. Adding to the mule mechanic, mules are Orbital Center’s “interceptors”, so all mules will return to its “Carrier” once OC lifted up; and if an OC is destroyed, all its mules will be killed too. Besides, one mule occupies one transportation slot, thus if you build 5 mules for an Orbital center, it won’t be able to transport SCVs anymore.

8. You don't have to go back to mineral lines and charge mules all the time. There is a upgrade called Neo Reactor in Fusion Core. After the research is completed, all Terran psionic units, inculding mules, will gain an additional restoration rate of 1 energy per second. Thus, mules will keep working by themselves most of the time.


Any ideas?

Btw, if you guys don’t find it annoying, I may post my Protoss and Zerg macro mechanics someday later.
by.Fantasy
Pholon
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Netherlands6142 Posts
July 14 2009 17:52 GMT
#2
I'm just wondering why it can't cloak
Moderator@TLPholon // "I need a third hand to facepalm right now"
AdunToridas
Profile Joined December 2008
Germany380 Posts
July 14 2009 17:52 GMT
#3
On July 15 2009 02:43 skypacer wrote:
2. Production Acceleration (A)
- Target: any of your production buildings, i.e. a command center, a barrack, a factory or a starport.
- Energy cost: 75
+ Show Spoiler +
Description:

1. An example of how it works:
Select an Orbital Center, press “A” and left click a factory, then the tank currently built in the factory will be produced 20% faster.

2. The acceleration effect fades away as soon as this tank is completed.

Well I like this one, but I don't know if these speculations make much sense. There was already a guy who had similar ideas, I think he wanted a Starbase, that production buildings can build units on the flight. I think these ideas are great but it depends on Blizzard which techs go in SC2...
« People say I'm strange, does it make me a stranger that my best friend was born in a manger? »
sudo.era
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States300 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-14 19:00:28
July 14 2009 18:16 GMT
#4
Having a unit that you can't control for any significant period of time would not feel fun, especially if it's not doing anything. It'd be painful for a mule to shut down in some spot where it becomes annoying visual clutter (ie, anywhere).

What you've failed to do - and this is the most important part - is explain why it's better than the current system. Your reasons for why it's better aren't too convincing.

1. This macro mechanic focuses on not only mineral gathering, but also troop producing, decision making and tactics employing. I think it may add to the depth of the game as well as encourage exciting and even radical game play, while it is not hard to be balanced.

There is already plenty of depth in having to decide whether you spend energy on scans or mules. And you can't have too many abilities because... well, let's think about how it affects scans.

Scans are essential, and in that they are the staple for balance. The more abilities you have, the more you have to balance their use with scans. If a scan costs a realistic amount of energy (say, 50), then the ability to employ other energy-costing abilities becomes stifled, and they would hardly - if ever - be used. If a scan costs too little energy, then Terrans begin to have an unfair dominance over cloaked and burrowed units.

Regardless of either option, the abilities you list would be seldom used. And, having even one ability in-game that's only useful on uncommon occasions isn't an attractive ability. The more abilities you add, the less any of them will be used.

2.When watching battle report 3, Many of my friends who don't play Starcraft said that Terran's macro mechanic was kinda weird, you just called down an awesome drop pod, yet to see the dull mules coming out. And I myself think that things with a timed life such as the current mule are not of Terran style. Besides, the current Orbital skill, the "Supply Drop" is not useful and inventive enough that you cannot expect too much out of it.

I don't think mules are dull, though if you have a problem with them, that's more to do with visuals than mechanics. How is timed life not Terran style? You're not being descriptive and reinforcing your points.

The fact that they die after a period of time perfectly solves the problem of having visual/spacial clutter. And, their 'timed life' is justifiable in the sense that mass-marketed technology in today's world is always built with a limited lifespan on purpose - so that you have to buy (a) replacement(s). And Terrans basically are humans, so...

I'd hit the rest of your points, but I have to get back to work.
SoleSteeler
Profile Joined April 2003
Canada5420 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-14 18:48:10
July 14 2009 18:47 GMT
#5
On July 15 2009 02:52 AdunToridas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2009 02:43 skypacer wrote:
2. Production Acceleration (A)
- Target: any of your production buildings, i.e. a command center, a barrack, a factory or a starport.
- Energy cost: 75
+ Show Spoiler +
Description:

1. An example of how it works:
Select an Orbital Center, press “A” and left click a factory, then the tank currently built in the factory will be produced 20% faster.

2. The acceleration effect fades away as soon as this tank is completed.

Well I like this one, but I don't know if these speculations make much sense. There was already a guy who had similar ideas, I think he wanted a Starbase, that production buildings can build units on the flight. I think these ideas are great but it depends on Blizzard which techs go in SC2...


I like the production acceleration also, but maybe make it affect the next 3 units or something? 75 energy is steep!
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-14 19:06:48
July 14 2009 19:00 GMT
#6
Youve got some creative ideas here. Couple notes

-I kinda like the idea of Permanant MULEs if they are sufficently differentiated from SCVs. I think this is an idea worth pursueing.

-Although I think the specifics of your drop pod proposal could cause complications I would like to see drop pods dropping marines.

-The Terran already have a production acceleration mechanic in the Reactor.

-Giving units energy is already an ability on the Protoss Obelisk.
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
Chodorkovskiy
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Israel459 Posts
July 14 2009 21:00 GMT
#7
On July 15 2009 04:00 Archerofaiur wrote:
-Although I think the specifics of your drop pod proposal could cause complications I would like to see drop pods dropping marines.


This is what the thread distills down to for me. I want drop pods back in, too. Problem is, Terran already have the late game Mobile Infantry (with real guns) in Marines & Medivacs. Drop pods add little to the Terran tech tree, other than flair.

If Medics are back in, though, and Medivacs are back out... call me.
"Retards like you need to be eliminated from the gene pool." --mensrea about you.
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
July 14 2009 23:04 GMT
#8
Don't you see that Blizzard is just taking advantage of the community by saying "We aren't sure of what we are going to do," and then just having us come up with all of the content?

Shade692003
Profile Joined August 2005
Canada702 Posts
July 15 2009 00:18 GMT
#9
On July 15 2009 03:47 SoleSteeler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2009 02:52 AdunToridas wrote:
On July 15 2009 02:43 skypacer wrote:
2. Production Acceleration (A)
- Target: any of your production buildings, i.e. a command center, a barrack, a factory or a starport.
- Energy cost: 75
+ Show Spoiler +
Description:

1. An example of how it works:
Select an Orbital Center, press “A” and left click a factory, then the tank currently built in the factory will be produced 20% faster.

2. The acceleration effect fades away as soon as this tank is completed.

Well I like this one, but I don't know if these speculations make much sense. There was already a guy who had similar ideas, I think he wanted a Starbase, that production buildings can build units on the flight. I think these ideas are great but it depends on Blizzard which techs go in SC2...


I like the production acceleration also, but maybe make it affect the next 3 units or something? 75 energy is steep!



That idea totally reminds me of Age of Mythology. The Egyptians could use their pharaoh to bless a single building (channeling spell) which reduced the time needed for the building to do research/construct units. Was pretty nifty.
I hate the post below mine because it feels War3-ish.
0neheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States92 Posts
July 15 2009 00:47 GMT
#10
age of mythology was awesome, it was like my 2nd rts ever lol
Beaudereck
Profile Joined October 2008
Canada140 Posts
July 15 2009 02:07 GMT
#11
When I started to read this OP, I found it so well done, with such fresh ideas that I thought it was from ArcherOfAiur. Seriously, those are very nice mechanics.
Opopos
saritenite
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Singapore1680 Posts
July 15 2009 02:32 GMT
#12
Does this not make this building mandatory for every game? Will it restrict the BOs to revolve around this building? Four skills are a bit overpowered for one unit/building, it sounds like a WC3 hero that's stationary.

It also sounds like the mothership. Drop Pods sounds really nifty and looks like a good harass spell.
Send in a Marine and get two OCs to add another 8 of them. GG drones. But imagine you send in Helions (i assume they'll be 2 supply) and use two OCs on them. With the micro capabilities of players these days, will it be a bit overpowered to allow the spells to be used on? Won't this seem too much like a recall?

@ Production acceleration - I have got the feeling that SC2 will degenerate into macro wars. Will 75 energy be worth spending on one unit's production time? Of course, it will have its uses, but when a game goes into late game, all you'll want to spend this skill on is producing BCs if you even go for that tech.

Recap
- Will it be imbalanced?
- Is the macro spell really that helpful?
- Will it restrict build orders in the game that everyone will go for it, or will it be an option that a player needs a distinct build order to go for?

I remain neutral about the mules and energy recharge, only to say that they seem protoss-ish.
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
July 15 2009 02:33 GMT
#13
On July 15 2009 11:07 Beaudereck wrote:
When I started to read this OP, I found it so well done, with such fresh ideas that I thought it was from ArcherOfAiur. Seriously, those are very nice mechanics.



LOL ill take that as a complement :D
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
A3iL3r0n
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States2196 Posts
July 15 2009 02:36 GMT
#14
I thought they were the actual game mechanics at first, but it will be interesting to see if the actual game measures up to this.
My psychiatrist says I have deep-seated Ragneuroses :(
skypacer
Profile Joined July 2003
China174 Posts
July 15 2009 02:36 GMT
#15

-I kinda like the idea of Permanant MULEs if they are sufficently differentiated from SCVs. I think this is an idea worth pursueing.

Yes, in my theroycrafting, Mules are very different from SCVs, they are in fact a part of the orbital center, less efficient than SCVs but an important supplement.

-Although I think the specifics of your drop pod proposal could cause complications I would like to see drop pods dropping marines.

The drop pod mechanic is rather plain and easy, you use it on a marine then you got additional marines, you use it on a tank then you got additional one, ect.
-The Terran already have a production acceleration mechanic in the Reactor.

So, the production acceleration works much well for tech-lab required units, especially expensive higher-tier units that require a long time to produce.

-Giving units energy is already an ability on the Protoss Obelisk.

Yes, argus link does so, but in my Protoss macro mechanic, it is no longer there. I ever tried to put all my ideas for the three races in a thread, but failed for there would be too many words....
by.Fantasy
skypacer
Profile Joined July 2003
China174 Posts
July 15 2009 02:42 GMT
#16
On July 15 2009 11:33 Archerofaiur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2009 11:07 Beaudereck wrote:
When I started to read this OP, I found it so well done, with such fresh ideas that I thought it was from ArcherOfAiur. Seriously, those are very nice mechanics.



LOL ill take that as a complement :D

Archerofaiur, would you please quote your thread with the ideas where mine "come from" here?
Honestly, I've not read it yet, I will be happy if I share similar ideas with someone else.
by.Fantasy
skypacer
Profile Joined July 2003
China174 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-16 01:59:04
July 15 2009 03:02 GMT
#17
On July 15 2009 11:32 sArite_nite wrote:


- Will it be imbalanced?

Production acceleration is less powered than the queen's larva, drop pod is less powered than nydus cannel and warp-in in mid and late game, while more intimidating in early game and in some radical gameplay. Besides, all of them can easily balanced.
- Is the macro spell really that helpful?

I think yes, but in different tactics/buiding orders, they may have different potential and different efficiency.
- Will it restrict build orders in the game that everyone will go for it, or will it be an option that a player needs a distinct build order to go for?

I think not, in contrast, it may encourage different build order. If you are focusing economy, 4 more scvs from drop-pod and keep mules working through Distant Energy Charge will be of much help. If you are going a harassing gameplay, to accelerate the production of key units, to get some more of them from drop-pod would make your tactics more powerful.....

I remain neutral about the mules and energy recharge, only to say that they seem protoss-ish.

Yes, but they would be very Terran-like if I can show you my photoshop works, which are still in progress, to illustrate how they work. Though I tend to give up the photoshop works now, much too hard than predicted ... :>
Just imagine that you can get much help from space station now...
by.Fantasy
skypacer
Profile Joined July 2003
China174 Posts
July 15 2009 03:16 GMT
#18
On July 15 2009 09:18 Shade692003 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2009 03:47 SoleSteeler wrote:
On July 15 2009 02:52 AdunToridas wrote:
On July 15 2009 02:43 skypacer wrote:
2. Production Acceleration (A)
- Target: any of your production buildings, i.e. a command center, a barrack, a factory or a starport.
- Energy cost: 75
+ Show Spoiler +
Description:

1. An example of how it works:
Select an Orbital Center, press “A” and left click a factory, then the tank currently built in the factory will be produced 20% faster.

2. The acceleration effect fades away as soon as this tank is completed.

Well I like this one, but I don't know if these speculations make much sense. There was already a guy who had similar ideas, I think he wanted a Starbase, that production buildings can build units on the flight. I think these ideas are great but it depends on Blizzard which techs go in SC2...


I like the production acceleration also, but maybe make it affect the next 3 units or something? 75 energy is steep!



That idea totally reminds me of Age of Mythology. The Egyptians could use their pharaoh to bless a single building (channeling spell) which reduced the time needed for the building to do research/construct units. Was pretty nifty.

Ha, but I've never played this game.
by.Fantasy
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27148 Posts
July 15 2009 03:29 GMT
#19
On July 15 2009 11:42 skypacer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2009 11:33 Archerofaiur wrote:
On July 15 2009 11:07 Beaudereck wrote:
When I started to read this OP, I found it so well done, with such fresh ideas that I thought it was from ArcherOfAiur. Seriously, those are very nice mechanics.



LOL ill take that as a complement :D

Archerofaiur, would you please quote your thread with the ideas where mine "come from" here?
Honestly, I've not read it yet, I will be happy if I share similar ideas with someone else.


I think he meant the quality of the ideas were the same, not the ideas themselves.
ModeratorGodfather
skypacer
Profile Joined July 2003
China174 Posts
July 15 2009 03:30 GMT
#20
On July 15 2009 03:16 sudo.era wrote:
Having a unit that you can't control for any significant period of time would not feel fun, especially if it's not doing anything. It'd be painful for a mule to shut down in some spot where it becomes annoying visual clutter (ie, anywhere).

What you've failed to do - and this is the most important part - is explain why it's better than the current system. Your reasons for why it's better aren't too convincing.

Show nested quote +
1. This macro mechanic focuses on not only mineral gathering, but also troop producing, decision making and tactics employing. I think it may add to the depth of the game as well as encourage exciting and even radical game play, while it is not hard to be balanced.

There is already plenty of depth in having to decide whether you spend energy on scans or mules. And you can't have too many abilities because... well, let's think about how it affects scans.

Scans are essential, and in that they are the staple for balance. The more abilities you have, the more you have to balance their use with scans. If a scan costs a realistic amount of energy (say, 50), then the ability to employ other energy-costing abilities becomes stifled, and they would hardly - if ever - be used. If a scan costs too little energy, then Terrans begin to have an unfair dominance over cloaked and burrowed units.

Regardless of either option, the abilities you list would be seldom used. And, having even one ability in-game that's only useful on uncommon occasions isn't an attractive ability. The more abilities you add, the less any of them will be used.

Show nested quote +
2.When watching battle report 3, Many of my friends who don't play Starcraft said that Terran's macro mechanic was kinda weird, you just called down an awesome drop pod, yet to see the dull mules coming out. And I myself think that things with a timed life such as the current mule are not of Terran style. Besides, the current Orbital skill, the "Supply Drop" is not useful and inventive enough that you cannot expect too much out of it.

I don't think mules are dull, though if you have a problem with them, that's more to do with visuals than mechanics. How is timed life not Terran style? You're not being descriptive and reinforcing your points.

The fact that they die after a period of time perfectly solves the problem of having visual/spacial clutter. And, their 'timed life' is justifiable in the sense that mass-marketed technology in today's world is always built with a limited lifespan on purpose - so that you have to buy (a) replacement(s). And Terrans basically are humans, so...

I'd hit the rest of your points, but I have to get back to work.

More hits are welcomed. I admit that I am not descriptive enough...
by.Fantasy
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
July 15 2009 04:38 GMT
#21
On July 15 2009 11:42 skypacer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2009 11:33 Archerofaiur wrote:
On July 15 2009 11:07 Beaudereck wrote:
When I started to read this OP, I found it so well done, with such fresh ideas that I thought it was from ArcherOfAiur. Seriously, those are very nice mechanics.



LOL ill take that as a complement :D

Archerofaiur, would you please quote your thread with the ideas where mine "come from" here?
Honestly, I've not read it yet, I will be happy if I share similar ideas with someone else.


Well we had a popular drop pod thread were we did allot of theorycrafting. But I wasnt the first person to propose drop pods. Its been done in many other RTS games. Aside from that your ideas have your own unique creative spin on them so I wouldnt worry about people thinking they "came from" somewhere else.
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
AdunToridas
Profile Joined December 2008
Germany380 Posts
July 15 2009 14:07 GMT
#22
On July 15 2009 08:04 cgrinker wrote:
Don't you see that Blizzard is just taking advantage of the community by saying "We aren't sure of what we are going to do," and then just having us come up with all of the content?


Well I rather doubt that
'Course I heard that there are some Blizzard Staff members in TL, but I haven't heard of a single mechanic which has been implemented because of us.. So, i don't know..
« People say I'm strange, does it make me a stranger that my best friend was born in a manger? »
saritenite
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Singapore1680 Posts
July 15 2009 14:53 GMT
#23
On July 15 2009 23:07 AdunToridas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2009 08:04 cgrinker wrote:
Don't you see that Blizzard is just taking advantage of the community by saying "We aren't sure of what we are going to do," and then just having us come up with all of the content?


Well I rather doubt that
'Course I heard that there are some Blizzard Staff members in TL, but I haven't heard of a single mechanic which has been implemented because of us.. So, i don't know..


Maybe they keep accounts here to check what we want and then not implement those.

@ Skypacer

I don't know what it entails, but even if you want to implement the OC, you might have to tweak some of the stats of the building.

With the current spells, it will be an important target for the opponent.
- Will it be able to float?
- With reference to game evolution, do you think it will still be useful when progamers create a perfect build order pertaining to economy and macro their way to victory? 75 energy means the spell can only be used on two buildings at once, with the 200 energy cap. That creates one unit each, faster by 20%, for 150 energy and probably requires 2-5 apm more to pull off. At D level it's not something people will go for, at the pro level, only if it'll give a good advantage.
- I have an opinion on mules now. I rather the OC be able to produce SCVs faster, and also use drop pods to saturate SCV numbers. The Mule will be micro intensive and will take up concentration power.

Btw


- I have an opinion on mules now. I rather the OC be able to produce SCVs faster, and also use drop pods to saturate SCV numbers. The Mule will be micro intensive and will take up concentration power.


This makes me think that an OC will make a Terran comeback from harasses and pushes that much easier.

This will make the OC:
1) Top priority for player and opponent alike.
2) Mandatory for the Terran for expanding and playing a macro game.
3) Relevant in every B/O unless the Terran is going for some All-in.

^ Does this raise an issue with anyone?
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-15 15:56:41
July 15 2009 15:43 GMT
#24
On July 15 2009 23:07 AdunToridas wrote:
I haven't heard of a single mechanic which has been implemented because of us.



Blizzard has said that the fans enthusiasm for solving a problem motivated them to tackle the problem.
I dont want to say direct causation but we have been really really close http://blizzforums.com/showthread.php?t=22959
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78498 (read "The Answer" part)
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
skypacer
Profile Joined July 2003
China174 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-15 18:30:47
July 15 2009 18:04 GMT
#25
On July 15 2009 23:53 sArite_nite wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2009 23:07 AdunToridas wrote:
On July 15 2009 08:04 cgrinker wrote:
Don't you see that Blizzard is just taking advantage of the community by saying "We aren't sure of what we are going to do," and then just having us come up with all of the content?


Well I rather doubt that
'Course I heard that there are some Blizzard Staff members in TL, but I haven't heard of a single mechanic which has been implemented because of us.. So, i don't know..


Maybe they keep accounts here to check what we want and then not implement those.

@ Skypacer

I don't know what it entails, but even if you want to implement the OC, you might have to tweak some of the stats of the building.

With the current spells, it will be an important target for the opponent.
- Will it be able to float?
- With reference to game evolution, do you think it will still be useful when progamers create a perfect build order pertaining to economy and macro their way to victory? 75 energy means the spell can only be used on two buildings at once, with the 200 energy cap. That creates one unit each, faster by 20%, for 150 energy and probably requires 2-5 apm more to pull off. At D level it's not something people will go for, at the pro level, only if it'll give a good advantage.
- I have an opinion on mules now. I rather the OC be able to produce SCVs faster, and also use drop pods to saturate SCV numbers. The Mule will be micro intensive and will take up concentration power.

Btw

Show nested quote +

- I have an opinion on mules now. I rather the OC be able to produce SCVs faster, and also use drop pods to saturate SCV numbers. The Mule will be micro intensive and will take up concentration power.


This makes me think that an OC will make a Terran comeback from harasses and pushes that much easier.

This will make the OC:
1) Top priority for player and opponent alike.
2) Mandatory for the Terran for expanding and playing a macro game.
3) Relevant in every B/O unless the Terran is going for some All-in.

^ Does this raise an issue with anyone?

Yes, all the statistics should be tweaked again and again if my ideas could somehow be put into practice...but we are just theorycrafting, and have no way to test the balance.

About the energy cost of "Production Acceleration":
At first, I set it for 25 per cast, but worried that people would spam it, thus this skill would became an APM sucker rather than a tactic-related one, so I changed it. And yes, 75 energy maybe too much to make PA a very useful skill.

About the OC:
- It can still lift off and fly.(OC can fly in current alpha build ).
- I think its HP needn't to be buffed, but may have more armor, say +1 armor.
- It is a critical target to your opponent, so are queens and dark pylons.

About whether Blizz is listening or not:
It is too hard for a game company to listen to everyone of his potential consumers, hence it would be awesome if my ideas can be inspirational thoughts to Blizz guys. However, it doesn't matter at all if my ideas are only junks in their eyes or they'd never take a look at them.
Theorycrafting is interesting, and we don't have to expect too much out of it, for we are not designers, instead, we are just amateurs doing something for fun :>
by.Fantasy
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 49m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 57457
Barracks 1915
Shuttle 1911
EffOrt 1663
Mini 779
firebathero 765
BeSt 586
actioN 561
Larva 297
Soma 194
[ Show more ]
Hyun 114
Mind 68
Dewaltoss 61
Sharp 55
Shinee 40
Backho 35
JulyZerg 32
sorry 31
Sacsri 18
Shine 18
Yoon 16
Terrorterran 16
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
ivOry 8
Dota 2
syndereN815
XcaliburYe604
canceldota144
Counter-Strike
kRYSTAL_59
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor343
Other Games
B2W.Neo1451
Hui .327
KnowMe124
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3019
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 6
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 82
• poizon28 23
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 34
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV679
• Ler114
League of Legends
• Jankos1505
Upcoming Events
Online Event
49m
BSL 2v2 ProLeague S3
2h 49m
Esports World Cup
1d 18h
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
2 days
Esports World Cup
3 days
Esports World Cup
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
6 days
[ Show More ]
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

2025 ACS Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.