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On July 01 2009 04:20 ReS wrote:
Karune seems like one of those guys that goes to a LAN party and fires up WoW to play online instead of with the people sitting around him.
This is a myopic attitude to hold. When my friends and I had BW/WC3 LAN parties, we would exclusively play team games against other players on Battle.net. Karune's suggestion that he would choose to play on Bnet anyway if he were at a LAN doesn't preclude him from playing with the other people at the LAN party in any way.
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On July 01 2009 03:55 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
Wow, Karune's response to those posts is absolutely disgusting. Everything he replies with is his personal way of liking to do things and saying that private servers fracture the community? Please. That's their way of saying 'we want everyone to pay for this game, anyone living in a poor country who cant afford it? too bad'.
He's right. If you can't afford it, that doesn't give you a right to STEAL it. This sense of entitlement is one of the worst things to come out of Internet culture.
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I cannot believe that there's an amount of people bigger than ZERO % believing in Blizzard's trash talk that "we're thinking abouit the community because we all know that pirate servers hurt the community!!"
Have you short memory randoms forget what ICCUP is?
They're only removing LAN because they care most about they own profit than about the quality of the product they're delivering. Not because they "have something better they just can't tell you yet" or because they "care about the community". If the OP in this thread isn't enough to convince you of that, I really don't know what could ><
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To compare the removal of LAN to the DRM included with Spore is ridiculous. While one would stop you from playing the game altogether after a certain number of installs, the only simply forces you to play the game with the service they made for it. Doesn't really translate.
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On July 01 2009 04:25 VIB wrote:
I cannot believe that there's an amount of people bigger than ZERO % believing in Blizzard's trash talk that "we're thinking abouit the community because we all know that pirate servers hurt the community!!"
Have you short memory randoms forget what ICCUP is?
They're only removing LAN because they care most about they own profit than about the quality of the product they're delivering. Not because they "have something better they just can't tell you yet" or because they "care about the community". If the OP in this thread isn't enough to convince you of that, I really don't know what could ><
There is no need for iCCup if Blizzard maintains it's own ladder, has LAN latency mode, patches against hacks regularly, and hosts tournaments for 3rd parties all over Battle.net.
Most of the anti-DRM guys on the Internet are pirates that just want to steal games. This is nothing like limited activations, where there can be legitimate concern by paying customers. Online activation to prevent piracy is GOOD, and we know from their history that Blizzard isn't turning off Battle.net, ever.
Anyone who has been to a LAN party knows that many of the people there have pirated copies of the game.
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United States12257 Posts
Question:
Oh, Karune, you know as well as I do that anti-piracy and LAN are not mutually exclusive.
Step 1: Connect to Battle.Net
Step 2: Authentication
Step 3: Access LAN games thereafter
There you go. Authenticated LAN play. Low latency. LAN parties. Happy customers.
-Clive
Answer by Karune:
I will be sure to forward ideas in regards to LAN as described. I too have many fond memories of LAN parties.
I'd like this idea to be explored further. Does this mean you'd need to authenticate per session? If so, why bother with LAN at all when you're already connected to Battle.net? If you don't need to authenticate per session and it's a one-time registration, what's to stop spoofing (or pilfering Battle.net accounts)?
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On July 01 2009 04:25 VIB wrote:
I cannot believe that there's an amount of people bigger than ZERO % believing in Blizzard's trash talk that "we're thinking abouit the community because we all know that pirate servers hurt the community!!"
Have you short memory randoms forget what ICCUP is?
They're only removing LAN because they care most about they own profit than about the quality of the product they're delivering. Not because they "have something better they just can't tell you yet" or because they "care about the community". If the OP in this thread isn't enough to convince you of that, I really don't know what could ><
You're misinterpreting Karune's quote. His argument is "too many servers split the community". ICCUP doesn't do that because it was lucky enough to be the "new Battlenet". He's absolutely right that splitting communities is a bad thing, and there is nothing wrong with what he said. The reason why more than 0% of us support Blizzard's statement is because we aren't immediately jumping on them with a biased attitude.
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On July 01 2009 04:27 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +Question:
Oh, Karune, you know as well as I do that anti-piracy and LAN are not mutually exclusive.
Step 1: Connect to Battle.Net
Step 2: Authentication
Step 3: Access LAN games thereafter
There you go. Authenticated LAN play. Low latency. LAN parties. Happy customers.
-Clive
Answer by Karune:
I will be sure to forward ideas in regards to LAN as described. I too have many fond memories of LAN parties. I'd like this idea to be explored further. Does this mean you'd need to authenticate per session? If so, why bother with LAN at all when you're already connected to Battle.net? If you don't need to authenticate per session and it's a one-time registration, what's to stop spoofing (or pilfering Battle.net accounts)?
It would definitely be per session. Most people making this suggestion believe it should be analogous to Valve's Steam service, which I think is per session.
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On July 01 2009 04:27 Zzoram wrote:
There is no need for iCCup if Blizzard maintains it's own ladder, has LAN latency mode, patches against hacks regularly, and hosts tournaments for 3rd parties all over Battle.net.
That's so predictable, I was gonna add an answer to that but I thought it would make my post too long. Why do you think, in your opinion, that bnet1 didn't keep up in the first place? Since bnet1 didn't keep up with the hundreds of thousands of developers around the globe, what could possibly make you think that bnet2 would? Their word? The guy who is selling you a product told you their product is good just because they told you so?
And lets not forget the main reason why this is bad. As Husky have already posted multiple times. This just adds one more thing to make offline esport tournaments go wrong. We all have seen 20min delays only because someone's mouse isn't working. Now you have to connect to the internet? What about all the offline Steam tournaments that wen't wrong because the Steam server or the local internet connection was down?
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On July 01 2009 04:27 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2009 04:25 VIB wrote:
I cannot believe that there's an amount of people bigger than ZERO % believing in Blizzard's trash talk that "we're thinking abouit the community because we all know that pirate servers hurt the community!!"
Have you short memory randoms forget what ICCUP is?
They're only removing LAN because they care most about they own profit than about the quality of the product they're delivering. Not because they "have something better they just can't tell you yet" or because they "care about the community". If the OP in this thread isn't enough to convince you of that, I really don't know what could >< Most of the anti-DRM guys on the Internet are pirates that just want to steal games.
This used to be true, and large portion still are, but most people complaining about DRM today are fans that realize DRM is a failed system that only hurts legitimate customers. There has never been a game with DRM that was not available in a cracked form within a day or 2 of release.
Removing LAN mode will do nothing to prevent piracy. There will be hacked versions within days. The people that this hurts are the people with legitimate reasons for wanting a LAN feature. Groups of friends that want to play together offline, esports organizations, LAN parties. It just adds one more thing that can go wrong and isn't necessary.
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On July 01 2009 04:44 VIB wrote:
That's so predictable, I was gonna add an answer to that but I thought it would make my post too long. Why do you think, in your opinion, that bnet1 didn't keep up in the first place? Since bnet1 didn't keep up with the hundreds of thousands of developers around the globe, what could possibly make you think that bnet2 would? Their word? The guy who is selling you a product told you their product is good just because they told you so?
And lets not forget the main reason why this is bad. As Husky have already posted multiple times. This just adds one more thing to make offline esport tournaments go wrong. We all have seen 20min delays only because someone's mouse isn't working. Now you have to connect to the internet? What about all the offline Steam tournaments that wen't wrong because the Steam server or the local internet connection was down?
Battle.net didn't keep up in the first place because they were working on World of Warcraft for 5 years, in addition to Diablo 2 and Warcraft 3, and they were a much smaller company back then. WoW has given them the money to massively expand their staff.
Starcraft 2 will have MUCH longer support because instead of 1 expansion pack released during the same year (Starcraft and Broodwar are both 1998), they are releasing 2 expansion packs more than 1 year apart (they said it would take AT LEAST as long as it took to make Frozen Throne).
So if Starcraft 2 Terran comes out December 2009, SC2 Zerg comes out June 2011, SC2 Protoss comes out Dec 2013, they have plenty of opportunities to update Battle.net with those expansion packs. Also, they are clearly emphasizing the eSports thing, so they will keep it updated for that reason as well, something they never got involved in for Starcraft Broodwar.
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On July 01 2009 04:47 Idle wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2009 04:27 Zzoram wrote:On July 01 2009 04:25 VIB wrote:
I cannot believe that there's an amount of people bigger than ZERO % believing in Blizzard's trash talk that "we're thinking abouit the community because we all know that pirate servers hurt the community!!"
Have you short memory randoms forget what ICCUP is?
They're only removing LAN because they care most about they own profit than about the quality of the product they're delivering. Not because they "have something better they just can't tell you yet" or because they "care about the community". If the OP in this thread isn't enough to convince you of that, I really don't know what could >< Most of the anti-DRM guys on the Internet are pirates that just want to steal games. This used to be true, and large portion still are, but most people complaining about DRM today are fans that realize DRM is a failed system that only hurts legitimate customers. There has never been a game with DRM that was not available in a cracked form within a day or 2 of release.
These cracks allow single player, and single player games have always been hurt most by piracy, and I agree they should loosen up the DRM on those. However, Starcraft 2 will be multiplayer focused. Without LAN based online gaming for pirates, they will have to buy the game to play online.
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On July 01 2009 04:50 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2009 04:47 Idle wrote:On July 01 2009 04:27 Zzoram wrote:On July 01 2009 04:25 VIB wrote:
I cannot believe that there's an amount of people bigger than ZERO % believing in Blizzard's trash talk that "we're thinking abouit the community because we all know that pirate servers hurt the community!!"
Have you short memory randoms forget what ICCUP is?
They're only removing LAN because they care most about they own profit than about the quality of the product they're delivering. Not because they "have something better they just can't tell you yet" or because they "care about the community". If the OP in this thread isn't enough to convince you of that, I really don't know what could >< Most of the anti-DRM guys on the Internet are pirates that just want to steal games. This used to be true, and large portion still are, but most people complaining about DRM today are fans that realize DRM is a failed system that only hurts legitimate customers. There has never been a game with DRM that was not available in a cracked form within a day or 2 of release. These cracks allow single player, and single player games have always been hurt most by piracy, and I agree they should loosen up the DRM on those. However, Starcraft 2 will be multiplayer focused. Without LAN based online gaming for pirates, they will have to buy the game to play online.
No they will have to buy the game to play on battlenet. There's a huge difference. There will be hacked versions that allow lan play in a matter of days. Its happened before, it will happen again. Just watch.
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On July 01 2009 04:52 Idle wrote:
No they will have to buy the game to play on battlenet. There's a huge difference. There will be hacked versions that allow lan play in a matter of days. Its happened before, it will happen again. Just watch.
Except this time, because there is no legit LAN play, they can sue the people who host private LAN services like Hoafang to shut them down.
And it sounds like the new Battle.net will be awesome, much better than the one from Warcraft 3, so I don't see why people are against playing on it unless its because they want to steal the game.
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United Arab Emirates492 Posts
On July 01 2009 04:22 HuskyTheHusky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2009 04:19 danieldrsa wrote:Sorry everyone, but i agree to Karune in everything. Its interesting how ppl are just defending piracy so openly, not just LAN. This only shows how ppl (not eveyone, but most of them) like LAN because of piracy. Anyway here are some more posts Karune did:
Karune:
Dreamhack is often referenced as the largest LAN party in the world... but in today's age, that LAN is also connected to the internet.
I definitely hear your concern about the internet going out, which would be a huge, huge bummer! But as equally as unlikely, the power could go out...
Question:
Karune, what about latency issues involved in online play.
ICCUP in Starcraft and LC games in Warcraft 3 are all attempts to reduce Battlenet lag. What is Blizzard doing to combat this lag if they are removing LAN play?
Answer by Karune:
This is definitely a legitimate concern that would be best to be brought up again if needed when we talk about Battle.net 2.0. Question:
Oh, Karune, you know as well as I do that anti-piracy and LAN are not mutually exclusive.
Step 1: Connect to Battle.Net
Step 2: Authentication
Step 3: Access LAN games thereafter
There you go. Authenticated LAN play. Low latency. LAN parties. Happy customers.
-Clive
Answer by Karune:
I will be sure to forward ideas in regards to LAN as described. I too have many fond memories of LAN parties. The last post shows promise (if it lets you play on LAN after actually buying the game, in other words 'unlocking' that feature). His first post is very lulzy though. See my previous posts as to why.
The problem is you need to connect to internet first!!! to use the lan feature.
Wow nice job Blizzard.
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On July 01 2009 04:56 Gunman_csz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2009 04:22 HuskyTheHusky wrote:On July 01 2009 04:19 danieldrsa wrote:Sorry everyone, but i agree to Karune in everything. Its interesting how ppl are just defending piracy so openly, not just LAN. This only shows how ppl (not eveyone, but most of them) like LAN because of piracy. Anyway here are some more posts Karune did:
Karune:
Dreamhack is often referenced as the largest LAN party in the world... but in today's age, that LAN is also connected to the internet.
I definitely hear your concern about the internet going out, which would be a huge, huge bummer! But as equally as unlikely, the power could go out...
Question:
Karune, what about latency issues involved in online play.
ICCUP in Starcraft and LC games in Warcraft 3 are all attempts to reduce Battlenet lag. What is Blizzard doing to combat this lag if they are removing LAN play?
Answer by Karune:
This is definitely a legitimate concern that would be best to be brought up again if needed when we talk about Battle.net 2.0. Question:
Oh, Karune, you know as well as I do that anti-piracy and LAN are not mutually exclusive.
Step 1: Connect to Battle.Net
Step 2: Authentication
Step 3: Access LAN games thereafter
There you go. Authenticated LAN play. Low latency. LAN parties. Happy customers.
-Clive
Answer by Karune:
I will be sure to forward ideas in regards to LAN as described. I too have many fond memories of LAN parties. The last post shows promise (if it lets you play on LAN after actually buying the game, in other words 'unlocking' that feature). His first post is very lulzy though. See my previous posts as to why. The problem is you need to connect to internet first!!! to use the lan feature. Wow nice job Blizzard.
Which is increasingly a non-issue. Every small LAN party hosted at a house or school should have Internet access. Big ones in warehouses like Dreamhack have Internet now too.
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Most of the anti-DRM guys on the Internet are pirates that just want to steal games. [/QUOTE]
This used to be true, and large portion still are, but most people complaining about DRM today are fans that realize DRM is a failed system that only hurts legitimate customers. There has never been a game with DRM that was not available in a cracked form within a day or 2 of release.
Removing LAN mode will do nothing to prevent piracy. There will be hacked versions within days. The people that this hurts are the people with legitimate reasons for wanting a LAN feature. Groups of friends that want to play together offline, esports organizations, LAN parties. It just adds one more thing that can go wrong and isn't necessary. [/QUOTE]
I dont think you understand my post. Removing LAN is not a way to prevent SC2 being hacked. Of course SC2 will be hack within a week when It comes out.
Removing LAN is a way to prevent things like Haofang happens. Haofang allow people with hacked copies play online as good as people with legimated copies.
Maybe its nothing in the West, but in country like China, many people only go out and buy a legimate copy if there is no way for them to play online.
So what Blizzard is trying to do here isnt trying to stop piracy, but trying to stop company like Haofang which is the one who encourage mass pirate ( By mass pirate I mean millions of copies)
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VS is probably bigger than haofang.
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On July 01 2009 04:56 Gunman_csz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2009 04:22 HuskyTheHusky wrote:On July 01 2009 04:19 danieldrsa wrote:Sorry everyone, but i agree to Karune in everything. Its interesting how ppl are just defending piracy so openly, not just LAN. This only shows how ppl (not eveyone, but most of them) like LAN because of piracy. Anyway here are some more posts Karune did:
Karune:
Dreamhack is often referenced as the largest LAN party in the world... but in today's age, that LAN is also connected to the internet.
I definitely hear your concern about the internet going out, which would be a huge, huge bummer! But as equally as unlikely, the power could go out...
Question:
Karune, what about latency issues involved in online play.
ICCUP in Starcraft and LC games in Warcraft 3 are all attempts to reduce Battlenet lag. What is Blizzard doing to combat this lag if they are removing LAN play?
Answer by Karune:
This is definitely a legitimate concern that would be best to be brought up again if needed when we talk about Battle.net 2.0. Question:
Oh, Karune, you know as well as I do that anti-piracy and LAN are not mutually exclusive.
Step 1: Connect to Battle.Net
Step 2: Authentication
Step 3: Access LAN games thereafter
There you go. Authenticated LAN play. Low latency. LAN parties. Happy customers.
-Clive
Answer by Karune:
I will be sure to forward ideas in regards to LAN as described. I too have many fond memories of LAN parties. The last post shows promise (if it lets you play on LAN after actually buying the game, in other words 'unlocking' that feature). His first post is very lulzy though. See my previous posts as to why. The problem is you need to connect to internet first!!! to use the lan feature. Wow nice job Blizzard.
I do see the point and I agree to an extent. I'd rather have it where you only have to connect to the internet once to always have the LAN feature available rather than having to be on the internet to even host a LAN game.
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On July 01 2009 04:25 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2009 03:55 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
Wow, Karune's response to those posts is absolutely disgusting. Everything he replies with is his personal way of liking to do things and saying that private servers fracture the community? Please. That's their way of saying 'we want everyone to pay for this game, anyone living in a poor country who cant afford it? too bad'.
He's right. If you can't afford it, that doesn't give you a right to STEAL it. This sense of entitlement is one of the worst things to come out of Internet culture.
I mostly meant that in regards to being able to afford high speed internet. The wording was rather poor I admit. Though I think most the points presented are valid 
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