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On July 02 2009 10:23 NukezaFlyin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2009 06:18 sely wrote:On July 02 2009 06:10 Bebop Berserker wrote:On July 02 2009 06:06 sely wrote:On July 02 2009 05:57 Spawkuring wrote:On July 02 2009 05:55 sely wrote:
I know about the spawn installations and Blizzard obviously doesn't feel that it is a viable feature anymore. People can come up with scenarios where they are on a LAN with no internet access all day, but the fact is that situation is very rare in this day and age. And the number of people who will not buy SC2 because of the absence of LAN is small and will have little affect on Blizzard's bottom line, so don't kid yourself. Games evolve, and as DRM goes this is a rather unobtrusive option.
And you know these situations are rare how? Just because you are fortunate enough to have internet readily available doesn't mean everybody is. I understand there are plenty of people who do not have internet readily available, but if your computer is attached to others through a LAN and is new enough to be capable of running SC2, it most likely has some kind of internet access. You could have a LAN party in a barn and hook someone's cell phone up to a computer to authenticate with bnet and then play all you like. Lol no offense but you don't go to many Lan parties and that is obvious. Having 10 or 20 people connected to the internet and ALL of them working without a problem is nothing short of a micracle. Especially if another computer wants on... oh god the ip conflicts and the router cache fuck ups..... I don't need to go to LAN parties to understand how computer networks work. My point is that some people are assuming that when playing against their friends on LAN through bnet, every packet is going from their computer, to bnet, and back to their friends computer and there is no reason to assume this. Also, network problems can arise with or without and internet connection. Yeah, but it still sucks that in order to play in a barn I have to hook up someones cellphone to a router for all of us to play one game of Starcraft II. Not to mention I dont know anyone with a cellphone plan that lets them use the internet cheaply. I guess we'll see just how they do it and how it works out in a couple of months.
Then don't play in a barn! For god sakes you don't see me complaining that I can't play SC underwater. It's like people feel like they can play SC anywhere despite the inconveniences.
Anyways I looked at the link to the Chinese blog which translated the OP. It seems that many Chinese netizens are pretty rascist. Lots of them were like lol the guy is Vietnamese, he's a hypocrite and his opinions are not valid. Is this common on Chinese forums? And how much would a legit copy of SC2 cost in yuan anyways?
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On July 02 2009 10:36 Stripe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2009 10:23 NukezaFlyin wrote:On July 02 2009 06:18 sely wrote:On July 02 2009 06:10 Bebop Berserker wrote:On July 02 2009 06:06 sely wrote:On July 02 2009 05:57 Spawkuring wrote:On July 02 2009 05:55 sely wrote:
I know about the spawn installations and Blizzard obviously doesn't feel that it is a viable feature anymore. People can come up with scenarios where they are on a LAN with no internet access all day, but the fact is that situation is very rare in this day and age. And the number of people who will not buy SC2 because of the absence of LAN is small and will have little affect on Blizzard's bottom line, so don't kid yourself. Games evolve, and as DRM goes this is a rather unobtrusive option.
And you know these situations are rare how? Just because you are fortunate enough to have internet readily available doesn't mean everybody is. I understand there are plenty of people who do not have internet readily available, but if your computer is attached to others through a LAN and is new enough to be capable of running SC2, it most likely has some kind of internet access. You could have a LAN party in a barn and hook someone's cell phone up to a computer to authenticate with bnet and then play all you like. Lol no offense but you don't go to many Lan parties and that is obvious. Having 10 or 20 people connected to the internet and ALL of them working without a problem is nothing short of a micracle. Especially if another computer wants on... oh god the ip conflicts and the router cache fuck ups..... I don't need to go to LAN parties to understand how computer networks work. My point is that some people are assuming that when playing against their friends on LAN through bnet, every packet is going from their computer, to bnet, and back to their friends computer and there is no reason to assume this. Also, network problems can arise with or without and internet connection. Yeah, but it still sucks that in order to play in a barn I have to hook up someones cellphone to a router for all of us to play one game of Starcraft II. Not to mention I dont know anyone with a cellphone plan that lets them use the internet cheaply. I guess we'll see just how they do it and how it works out in a couple of months. Then don't play in a barn! For god sakes you don't see me complaining that I can't play SC underwater. It's like people feel like they can play SC anywhere despite the inconveniences. Anyways I looked at the link to the Chinese blog which translated the OP. It seems that many Chinese netizens are pretty rascist. Lots of them were like lol the guy is Vietnamese, he's a hypocrite and his opinions are not valid. Is this common on Chinese forums? And how much would a legit copy of SC2 cost in yuan anyways?
I think there is some spite between the Chinese and Vietnamese due to the Sino-Vietnamese War and the border incidents in the 80`s (although I am honestly suprised any of it maintains to this day).
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well, conflicts between Chinese and Vietnamese over territory sometimes still happen though.
I don't know how much a legit copy of SC2 costs in China but here in Vietnam a legit copy of any recent PC games is expensive for casual Vietnamese gamer.
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Removing LAN play is stupid imo, as said before removing LAN would remove viable alternatives and hurts legit customers as well. Instead of removing LAN to "reduce piracy", Blizzard should focus on making Bnet2 rape so that people would actually have an incentive to buy the game to play on Battle.net. Take SC1 for example, there really is no incentive to buy the game because ICCUP > Bnet. If blizzard wants people to buy their games then they should give them more reasons to.
Ofc there will be plenty of people who are willing to buy the game just because it's a good game, but for the other cheapskates who pirate, you should offer them benefits that cannot be given on a pirated version.
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On July 02 2009 06:08 Sadistx wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2009 05:37 Bebop Berserker wrote:
Here is my counter argument: Stop bitching about pirating! I love how people are throwing numbers out like 90% of the game was pirated. There is no way to tell that unless you count downloads to copies bought.... which is still fucking wrong. Its a poor ass estimation.
No, it isn't. Just by looking at the number of seeds on a torrent and then a legitimate sales number you can see that most PC games have piracy rates of AT LEAST 15-20%, and way higher for casual games like Sims 3 or Spore. Show nested quote + Hope you didn't want to play at your grandmother's house or at schol in between class or anywhere without internet. God, you're full of BS. You're going to play a starcraft match in a 10 minute period between classes? Or maybe the first thing you do at your grandmothers house is unpack your laptop and mousepad and tell her: hey I haven't seen you in a year, but wait, let me play a couple matches with my college buddies first. And btw, most grandparents are now tech savvy enough to have at least internet. Show nested quote +Why is it okay that Blizzard can take away Lan support to make money but wont ensure hacking stops? Blizzard is much better than most, with the possible exception of Valve/steam at stopping hackers, maybe not in the 1997 battle.net, but I haven't seen many complaints about WC3 hacking so far, so they are doing something right. I refuse to buy Blizzard's shitty games.Why don't you write a blog about it.
I allow them to make WOW (the reason gaming sucks today) shove some high graphical mediocre stale game play to people. Good thing they didn't forget to ASK YOUR PERMISSION. Show nested quote +The "role" of a motherfucking business isn't to make money! its to serve the people!!!!! get your shit straight. The reason America has no customer service, the reason you have to sit on hold for three hours to fix a 2 minute electrical problem, the reason when I go to McDonalds and order tomatoes and I dont get any and they dont get my change right and then the dude at circuit city in electronics doesnt know what a Gigahertz is... its all because of THIS MENTALITY: Business are here to make money. Well if you eat at McDonalds and shop for PC gear at Circuit City, that certainly explains a lot of things.
Wow. Good thing you made a useful comment and didnt just trash talk.
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Osaka27140 Posts
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PLU ppl use vs platform dont they ? 
i just watched the new allstar night with rushgoon aka Fnatic.Never
hhahaha so funny on iccup and vs
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On July 02 2009 12:21 Tom Phoenix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2009 10:36 Stripe wrote:On July 02 2009 10:23 NukezaFlyin wrote:On July 02 2009 06:18 sely wrote:On July 02 2009 06:10 Bebop Berserker wrote:On July 02 2009 06:06 sely wrote:On July 02 2009 05:57 Spawkuring wrote:On July 02 2009 05:55 sely wrote:
I know about the spawn installations and Blizzard obviously doesn't feel that it is a viable feature anymore. People can come up with scenarios where they are on a LAN with no internet access all day, but the fact is that situation is very rare in this day and age. And the number of people who will not buy SC2 because of the absence of LAN is small and will have little affect on Blizzard's bottom line, so don't kid yourself. Games evolve, and as DRM goes this is a rather unobtrusive option.
And you know these situations are rare how? Just because you are fortunate enough to have internet readily available doesn't mean everybody is. I understand there are plenty of people who do not have internet readily available, but if your computer is attached to others through a LAN and is new enough to be capable of running SC2, it most likely has some kind of internet access. You could have a LAN party in a barn and hook someone's cell phone up to a computer to authenticate with bnet and then play all you like. Lol no offense but you don't go to many Lan parties and that is obvious. Having 10 or 20 people connected to the internet and ALL of them working without a problem is nothing short of a micracle. Especially if another computer wants on... oh god the ip conflicts and the router cache fuck ups..... I don't need to go to LAN parties to understand how computer networks work. My point is that some people are assuming that when playing against their friends on LAN through bnet, every packet is going from their computer, to bnet, and back to their friends computer and there is no reason to assume this. Also, network problems can arise with or without and internet connection. Yeah, but it still sucks that in order to play in a barn I have to hook up someones cellphone to a router for all of us to play one game of Starcraft II. Not to mention I dont know anyone with a cellphone plan that lets them use the internet cheaply. I guess we'll see just how they do it and how it works out in a couple of months. Then don't play in a barn! For god sakes you don't see me complaining that I can't play SC underwater. It's like people feel like they can play SC anywhere despite the inconveniences. Anyways I looked at the link to the Chinese blog which translated the OP. It seems that many Chinese netizens are pretty rascist. Lots of them were like lol the guy is Vietnamese, he's a hypocrite and his opinions are not valid. Is this common on Chinese forums? And how much would a legit copy of SC2 cost in yuan anyways? I think there is some spite between the Chinese and Vietnamese due to the Sino-Vietnamese War and the border incidents in the 80`s (although I am honestly suprised any of it maintains to this day).
Nah, Chinese netizens are like netizens everywhere - a fair number of immature douchebags, with the added problem that a lot of them have a major chip on their shoulder and make up for it with ultra-nationalist sentiments. They would say the same of anyone who wasn't Chinese.
Hell, even when a Chinese athlete like Yao Ming gets injured and can't compete, they go apeshit and insult him.
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Didn't read through, so a lot of this might have already been said...
Blizzard claims to have removed LAN support because (1) doing so combats piracy and (2) they are "offering something better."
The second point first. If Blizzard is offering something that is really better, then users will use that better thing, not LAN. Why presume to make that choice for them?
I don't know the implementation details so I won't comment on possible problems with low bandwidth connections - these guys might be smarter than I think.
Now, about piracy. I'm sure that if it's easier to pirate a game than to buy a legitimate copy, there are many who will choose to pirate. I'm also sure that if it's easier to buy a legitimate copy, many of the previous group will then buy. Thus DRM was born.
But then, consider this reasoning. If a legitimate copy of a game is crippled in functionality or dotted with unavoidable ads (such as in B.net, which would actually become unavoidable for real SC2), and a pirated version is not, how many people will choose to pirate even if it's harder to do so?
No obvious choice, but that's my point - when there isn't such a clear gain, why piss off your customers?
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On July 02 2009 06:08 Sadistx wrote:Show nested quote + Hope you didn't want to play at your grandmother's house or at schol in between class or anywhere without internet. God, you're full of BS. You're going to play a starcraft match in a 10 minute period between classes?
Maybe he isn't. I don't know about playing in the 10-minute break between classes, but I played Starcraft through almost each lecture of a required but boring as hell class at my university during my last year.
On July 02 2009 06:08 Sadistx wrote:
Or maybe the first thing you do at your grandmothers house is unpack your laptop and mousepad and tell her: hey I haven't seen you in a year, but wait, let me play a couple matches with my college buddies first. And btw, most grandparents are now tech savvy enough to have at least internet.
Well, when I was a child I spent my summer vacations (2-3 months) at my grandparents and I can assure you, even if I could convince them to buy a Internet connection for me, that wasn't (and is still not) possible (because of their location).
Don't discard situations as absurd just because you haven't experienced them.
However you spin this, having less options (only bnet) can't be better than having more options. For some people it is the deciding factor whether they buy the game or not. Even if it's only 1% of lost sales, make an effort to imagine the frustration of those ppl in that 1% category.
Also, there's maybe another 0.1% of ppl like me that make (the irrational) decision not to buy the game out of spite when they hear LAN is removed due to "piracy concerns". I hate companies screwing their customers and I own very few games (all without DRM or other signs of customer-screwing tactics).
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I hate to see Lan-function go, but hey.
I am going to buy SC2 nonetheless,
However to fix the lan-party problem just make sure you have two Starcraft 2 installs, one with lan-support (and leechable so others can play with me as well.... :|) and your own -legit- one.
Lan>Internet always! In term off ping, packetloss and setting up.
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I don't think I'll complain if -
1. I could host more than three people on the b.net 2.0 at home without it lagging for others.
2. Trying to connect to other people isn't a pain like it is in BW ("Latency too high" errors).
I run a DSL connection too (zomg broadband), so that can't be the problem. *rolls eyes*
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I guess the removal of LAN was due to piracy reasons as well. Lots of software emulating LAN to play over the internet. Did not know about Haofang. That was an interesting read.
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Didn't read all the replies so I apologize if I'm just mentioning what others have already mentioned...
Blizzard's supposed position (as said by the OP) makes two assumptions... or at least faces two problems:
1. China will actually play SC2 on a large scale if LAN capabilities, along with Haofang, are eliminated. (obvious affordability and substitution issues)
2. LAN capabilities will not be created by some third party anyway.
If what the OP is saying is true (Blizzard's reason for eliminating LAN), I think this is a mistake by Blizzard. The decision alienates certain fans and weakens the community. I think in the long run Blizzard will be worse off.
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On July 01 2009 03:30 Klogon wrote:
It'll probably work like Steam. You authenticate your version with the main server, and as long as you are connected to that, you're allowed to play on LAN.
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That's. Not. How. Steam. Works.
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Not really on topic but still slightly related to the no lan issue: anyone knows if there will be off-line mode? Like I know you need internet to play bnet2.0 (duh!) but will you be able to load sc2 without an internet connection and still manage to see replays/play vs AI, etc?
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On July 06 2009 11:16 L wrote:
That's. Not. How. Steam. Works. How is it then? I never used it myself, I thought that post was correct.
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On July 07 2009 00:29 WeSt wrote:
Not really on topic but still slightly related to the no lan issue: anyone knows if there will be off-line mode? Like I know you need internet to play bnet2.0 (duh!) but will you be able to load sc2 without an internet connection and still manage to see replays/play vs AI, etc?
they said no lan not no off line single player >< so ofcourse you will be able to play off line.
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