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On May 13 2009 19:45 Blyf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2009 15:20 lepape wrote:On May 09 2009 06:39 MuR)Ernu wrote:Q: We are under the impression that there is more Micro in Sc2 than in part one. That is: We have to click more.
A: That's right, there is a lot of Micromanagement at the time being. If it stays that way depends ultimately on the beta test. Besides this, we have occupied ourselves extensively with Micro and Macromanagement - what the player must manage on a small scale, and what he can manage on a large scale - in the past months. Right now you have to do a lot by hand. For example, you trigger the Stalker's blink. Or you burrow and unburrow Roaches. Or you impede ground troups with the Disruptor's force field. This leads to a lot of Micromanagement, more than in SC1. Therefore, Sc2 plays out in a very complex way, especially towards the end of a match. But Macro should still stay important. Whoever does not cherish Micro can still earn victories. Especially by focussing on establishing a strong economy and then overunning your foe with a superior army.
HAV U HERD OF LURKERS? I HAS THEM IN BW. This is just bullshitting to make those who havent really played SC, to think that its true. Also in sc2 micro is 1a instead of 1a2a3a4a Actually, I think it's true that proper micro will feel more necessary, since every single freaking unit now seems to have clickable abilities that require your attention, pretty much like in Warcraft 3. I'm really not liking the clickfest sort of micro we saw in War3 making its way to SC2. I prefer positional micro as in flanking, focus firing and such. It just feels like real micro and is much more interesting as you actually control how your units fight as opposed to having a competition of who can spend the most amount of spells in the shortest amount of time. Just look at all the cool micro we see from units as mutas, goons and scourge, none of which have any abilities. And rines vs. lurkers is so fucking cool/skilled. Quickly spreading out your rines, running back and forth shooting at leapfrogging lurks etc. etc. God I love micro in SC and god I hate micro in War3 :-(
And why will this be different in SC2, again? Positional micro will still be the most important type of micro, since, as the person above me said, War3's problems were mainly centred around its units having too much HP, doing less damage, not having a good resource system, being able to "live" too easily with town portal, staff of preservation, etc.
SC2 will have none of those problems, and will have the same scenarios you just listed ... (Mutas, goons (both in immortals and stalkers), lurkers, not scourge exactly, but we have banelings)
There's roughly the same amount of abilities in SC2 as SC1 (about 30 each), except SC2 has a lot more that are worth using.
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On May 14 2009 02:24 SoleSteeler wrote:
except SC2 has a lot more that are worth using.
We do not know that yet, but it is probable. Blizzard are much more experienced now so they know much more about what works and what doesn't.
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Oh, for sure. But we can probably assume that they will try and make everything worthwhile, and "buff" shit that's not that great. I'd say each unit has at least something worth using, so I guess it'll be more a question of "is it worth it to spend energy on Y when X is so much better" (see: Storm vs. Hallucination  )
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I think SC2 will most likely have more abilities be used in the pro-gaming scene since they will be changing the game much more and for a longer time. Blizzard knows that everybody is keeping a close eye on SC2, so they definitely realize that they can't neglect the balance in the game.
Ugh, the wait is painful though. Beta is so close now.
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I don't understand... Blizzard keeps on emphasizing that they want to distinguish all three races from each other as much as they can... and yet they want to reduce the number of Zerg hatcheries by adding Queens spawning extra larvae (according to Dustin Browder)... Isn't it a unique feature of the zerg that it needs to create so much more hatcheries and more expansion than other races, making its structure even more distinguishable than the others? I think they're contradicting themselves there.
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On May 14 2009 09:33 spkim1 wrote:
I don't understand... Blizzard keeps on emphasizing that they want to distinguish all three races from each other as much as they can... and yet they want to reduce the number of Zerg hatcheries by adding Queens spawning extra larvae (according to Dustin Browder)... Isn't it a unique feature of the zerg that it needs to create so much more hatcheries and more expansion than other races, making its structure even more distinguishable than the others? I think they're contradicting themselves there.
Well Its not like they are taking away Zerg hability to benefit from having more bases than other races, they are just giving the option for a zerg to go low eco with better unit production
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On May 14 2009 11:45 D10 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2009 09:33 spkim1 wrote:
I don't understand... Blizzard keeps on emphasizing that they want to distinguish all three races from each other as much as they can... and yet they want to reduce the number of Zerg hatcheries by adding Queens spawning extra larvae (according to Dustin Browder)... Isn't it a unique feature of the zerg that it needs to create so much more hatcheries and more expansion than other races, making its structure even more distinguishable than the others? I think they're contradicting themselves there. Well Its not like they are taking away Zerg hability to benefit from having more bases than other races, they are just giving the option for a zerg to go low eco with better unit production
When did he specifically say that the queens ability was designed to help reduce the number of hatcheries used? Link? That does not sound right to me because all 3 races have abilties with the ability to increase resource harvesting (and i believe they stated that the zergs ability is designed to allow them to choose to either focus the extra eggs on building workers to increase economy or to create extra units to increase military). If the zerg were to decrease the number of hatcheries they have because of this ability they would not be gaining anything.
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On May 14 2009 11:45 D10 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2009 09:33 spkim1 wrote:
I don't understand... Blizzard keeps on emphasizing that they want to distinguish all three races from each other as much as they can... and yet they want to reduce the number of Zerg hatcheries by adding Queens spawning extra larvae (according to Dustin Browder)... Isn't it a unique feature of the zerg that it needs to create so much more hatcheries and more expansion than other races, making its structure even more distinguishable than the others? I think they're contradicting themselves there. Well Its not like they are taking away Zerg hability to benefit from having more bases than other races, they are just giving the option for a zerg to go low eco with better unit production
Yeah, exactly, zerg still gets the equivalent of two free factories every time they get an expansion. This will most likely mean that they will still get the most expansions since theirs are cheaper and they get extra benefits from it.
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On May 14 2009 15:35 DeCoup wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2009 11:45 D10 wrote:On May 14 2009 09:33 spkim1 wrote:
I don't understand... Blizzard keeps on emphasizing that they want to distinguish all three races from each other as much as they can... and yet they want to reduce the number of Zerg hatcheries by adding Queens spawning extra larvae (according to Dustin Browder)... Isn't it a unique feature of the zerg that it needs to create so much more hatcheries and more expansion than other races, making its structure even more distinguishable than the others? I think they're contradicting themselves there. Well Its not like they are taking away Zerg hability to benefit from having more bases than other races, they are just giving the option for a zerg to go low eco with better unit production When did he specifically say that the queens ability was designed to help reduce the number of hatcheries used? Link? That does not sound right to me because all 3 races have abilties with the ability to increase resource harvesting (and i believe they stated that the zergs ability is designed to allow them to choose to either focus the extra eggs on building workers to increase economy or to create extra units to increase military). If the zerg were to decrease the number of hatcheries they have because of this ability they would not be gaining anything.
Hi there, you just said "when did he specifically say that the queen's ability was designed to help reduce the number of hatcheries used? link?", well, let me point out very specifically, without the need of "a link" because it was on the thread already:
"The Queen offers a new method of production to Zerg. In the predecessor, they had to construct additional Hatcheries to mass-produce. Now they can build Queen alternatively to increase their number of larvae, and thus need less Hatcheries. However, the Queen's ability to spawn larvae requires a lot of Micro. The player therefore has to decide, whether to spend time on this or rather to construct additional Hatcheries." - DUSTIN BROWDER
DeCoup: next time, please read what the thread poster said before replying and quoting to criticise other people's comments...
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You're taking that quote out of context. It's not their goal to want the Zerg to use less hatcheries, it's just a side-effect of the Queen ability. But the ability wasn't created for the purpose of using less hatcheries. Also, I doubt it will make a difference anyway, people will still make the same amount of hatcheries as before, I would think.
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On May 15 2009 10:03 SoleSteeler wrote:
Also, I doubt it will make a difference anyway, people will still make the same amount of hatcheries as before, I would think.
Not necessarily. Part of the reason zergs go 3 hatch is to get more larvae early on. Now instead you can do a 2 hatch build with a queen to enhance drone production without delaying your tech as much as you would from adding a 3rd hatch before gas.
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True enough. But in the long run (long game, I mean) it probably won't make much of a difference. You'll still need a lot of hatcheries. Having one less (potentially) isn't much.
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If nothing else, it is good to hear Browder and others put so much emphasis on their desire to listen to the fan base during the beta. Just looking back at how far the game has come since announcement makes it seem like the game went from Warcraft 3 in space to an actual sequel to Starcraft. I can't wait for the beta and know that Blizzard wants to put out the best product they can.
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On May 15 2009 10:03 SoleSteeler wrote:
You're taking that quote out of context. It's not their goal to want the Zerg to use less hatcheries, it's just a side-effect of the Queen ability. But the ability wasn't created for the purpose of using less hatcheries. Also, I doubt it will make a difference anyway, people will still make the same amount of hatcheries as before, I would think.
How is it out of context? Browder clearly said in the parts that I've underlined that the Queen's ability could be an option to reduce the number of hatcheries in order to mass-produce. In his interview, he did not emphasize that it was "just a side-effect Queen ability" and that it will not affect the number of hatcheries. In fact, he explicitly commented that it could have significant effect on the number of hatcheries produced, which brings back to my point of race diversification and how zerg's build needs many hatcheries / expansions unlike toss and terran.
However, I do see the point, that it could be largely possible that players ignore this Queen ability and still opt for the high number of hatcheries. But my point is, Dustin Browder is part of the Blizzard staff, and thus his interview is reflecting on what Blizzard is planning for us in SC2, which is , according to this interview, an option to reduce hatcheries through Queen's ability to create extra larvae, which will take away the unique zerg build! comprende?
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On May 15 2009 10:38 Bowdz wrote:
If nothing else, it is good to hear Browder and others put so much emphasis on their desire to listen to the fan base during the beta. Just looking back at how far the game has come since announcement makes it seem like the game went from Warcraft 3 in space to an actual sequel to Starcraft. I can't wait for the beta and know that Blizzard wants to put out the best product they can.
yes, it's so true! Blizzard is keeping an active eye on the TL forum :D awesome! it's nice to know that our comments can make an impact on the next-gen competitive RTS, makes us feel important, a bit like pioneer assistants :D
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