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[O] Dustin Browder Interview - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Suc
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia1569 Posts
May 09 2009 06:42 GMT
#41
Great link, but why is he Dustin Bowder?
Aesop
Profile Joined October 2007
Hungary11305 Posts
May 09 2009 06:48 GMT
#42
On May 09 2009 15:42 Suc wrote:
Great link, but why is he Dustin Bowder?

yuck, you're right, someone change title please
ModeratorNon veritas sed auctoritas facit legem. | Liquipedia: Don't ask me, I'm retired.
Gokey
Profile Joined November 2006
United States2722 Posts
May 09 2009 07:23 GMT
#43
On May 09 2009 14:09 uglymoose89 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2009 14:00 nataziel wrote:
Awesome answers from dustin here, he seems to be finally understanding what the competitive players want. He knows what players don't like at the moment and is trying to fix them (e.g: trying to find a solution for hte gas mechanic, he knows it isn't working) This kind of stuff shows they are listening to the community, which is the best thing imo.


+1

+2

I like Browder more and more with every new Q&A... He really does seem to be aware of what SC players want, even with his somewhat questionable C&C background...
RA
Profile Joined October 2008
Latvia791 Posts
May 09 2009 07:39 GMT
#44
Impressive interview, with some points lacking completely but still it's better than nothing.
jodogohoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada2533 Posts
May 09 2009 08:04 GMT
#45
pretty good interview, only read the first half for now
AdunToridas
Profile Joined December 2008
Germany380 Posts
May 09 2009 08:18 GMT
#46
On May 09 2009 05:27 Aesop wrote:
Q: In paris we noticed that the AI opponents play extremely strong at the highest difficulty setting. Are they cheating?
A: Yes, on the highest setting "insane", the AI profits from additional resources. On all other settings, the opponents do not cheat. [...]

C'mon.. this must be a joke. And a very bad one as well..
« People say I'm strange, does it make me a stranger that my best friend was born in a manger? »
Aesop
Profile Joined October 2007
Hungary11305 Posts
May 09 2009 08:50 GMT
#47
On May 09 2009 17:18 AdunToridas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2009 05:27 Aesop wrote:
Q: In paris we noticed that the AI opponents play extremely strong at the highest difficulty setting. Are they cheating?
A: Yes, on the highest setting "insane", the AI profits from additional resources. On all other settings, the opponents do not cheat. [...]

C'mon.. this must be a joke. And a very bad one as well..

Do you mind the AI cheating or do you find it implausible that the AI is not cheating at other difficulty settings?
ModeratorNon veritas sed auctoritas facit legem. | Liquipedia: Don't ask me, I'm retired.
Klockan3
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Sweden2866 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-09 09:02:42
May 09 2009 09:00 GMT
#48
On May 09 2009 17:18 AdunToridas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2009 05:27 Aesop wrote:
Q: In paris we noticed that the AI opponents play extremely strong at the highest difficulty setting. Are they cheating?
A: Yes, on the highest setting "insane", the AI profits from additional resources. On all other settings, the opponents do not cheat. [...]

C'mon.. this must be a joke. And a very bad one as well..

Just don't play on highest if you do not like a cheating AI, also the AI cheated in sc1 and in wc3 and in almost every RTS you ever played.

On May 09 2009 08:11 Lobbo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2009 05:27 Aesop wrote:


Q: Apropos huge armies. In comparison to its predecessor, you are allowed to select many more units in Sc2. And that's great. But still, some game concepts seem antiquated, for example the 3D camera that does not zoom out very far. Or the production queue that can only hold five units. Why did you change unit selection but kept the other elements the same?
A: There is a quite obvious reason for the camera position. I am not a big fan of zooming out very far from battles. In other games, this might work out, but not in Starcraft. There is so much Micro that the battles would look confusing if you could zoom out further. Also the atmosphere would get lost - the units would transform into tiny symbols and you couldn't recognise anymore, how diligently they are designed. The feeling of fighting for a distinctive faction would get lost - and just in Starcraft, with its three characteristic races! Zoomed out very far, those battles would degenerate to a feud of ants. This might be appropriate for games like Supreme Commander, which are fully geared towards the zoom function, that have huge maps on which the units traverse very long distances. But Starcraft works differently: It happens faster, matches often last only half an hour. A zoom function simply wouldn't fit in.


Whaaaa

Do not read things out of context please, if you look you see that he discussed supreme commander just before so what he meant is that in starcraft most games ends before the 30 minute mark(Which is unlike supcom). Larger army limits as in supcom are therefore not really necessary (According to him) and might even be a bad thing since it can allow games to last even longer with people just building and building just like they do in supcom.
AdunToridas
Profile Joined December 2008
Germany380 Posts
May 09 2009 09:57 GMT
#49
On May 09 2009 18:00 Klockan3 wrote:
Just don't play on highest if you do not like a cheating AI, also the AI cheated in sc1 and in wc3 and in almost every RTS you ever played.

Really? Okay, in SC1 the AI always knows where you are and what you're doing. But has the AI some sort of additional minerals? And in WC3 as well?? From where do you know that? Just curious

On May 09 2009 17:50 Aesop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2009 17:18 AdunToridas wrote:
On May 09 2009 05:27 Aesop wrote:
Q: In paris we noticed that the AI opponents play extremely strong at the highest difficulty setting. Are they cheating?
A: Yes, on the highest setting "insane", the AI profits from additional resources. On all other settings, the opponents do not cheat. [...]

C'mon.. this must be a joke. And a very bad one as well..

Do you mind the AI cheating or do you find it implausible that the AI is not cheating at other difficulty settings?

Lol.. to me it sounds pretty weird that the AI is cheating.. I mean, it's like playing a 1v1 with a friend and your friend has a cheat for 10000 minerals in the beginning. Is not, y'know, equal? ^^ Seriously, I don't wanna play on Insane 'cause I'm pretty lame, but I thought it would be cool if the AI will beat you with pure strategy skills. No with some sort of cheating. Ah, nevermind =P
« People say I'm strange, does it make me a stranger that my best friend was born in a manger? »
Klockan3
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Sweden2866 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-09 10:15:46
May 09 2009 10:14 GMT
#50
On May 09 2009 18:57 AdunToridas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2009 18:00 Klockan3 wrote:
Just don't play on highest if you do not like a cheating AI, also the AI cheated in sc1 and in wc3 and in almost every RTS you ever played.

Really? Okay, in SC1 the AI always knows where you are and what you're doing. But has the AI some sort of additional minerals? And in WC3 as well?? From where do you know that? Just curious

Show nested quote +
On May 09 2009 17:50 Aesop wrote:
On May 09 2009 17:18 AdunToridas wrote:
On May 09 2009 05:27 Aesop wrote:
Q: In paris we noticed that the AI opponents play extremely strong at the highest difficulty setting. Are they cheating?
A: Yes, on the highest setting "insane", the AI profits from additional resources. On all other settings, the opponents do not cheat. [...]

C'mon.. this must be a joke. And a very bad one as well..

Do you mind the AI cheating or do you find it implausible that the AI is not cheating at other difficulty settings?

Lol.. to me it sounds pretty weird that the AI is cheating.. I mean, it's like playing a 1v1 with a friend and your friend has a cheat for 10000 minerals in the beginning. Is not, y'know, equal? ^^ Seriously, I don't wanna play on Insane 'cause I'm pretty lame, but I thought it would be cool if the AI will beat you with pure strategy skills. No with some sort of cheating. Ah, nevermind =P

There is no RTS AI ever which even comes close to being capable of beating even a mediocre player without money cheating, even if they see the whole map and so. And the money cheat is not that they start with more, they just harvest more per trip.
Aesop
Profile Joined October 2007
Hungary11305 Posts
May 09 2009 10:24 GMT
#51
On May 09 2009 18:57 AdunToridas wrote:
Lol.. to me it sounds pretty weird that the AI is cheating.. I mean, it's like playing a 1v1 with a friend and your friend has a cheat for 10000 minerals in the beginning. Is not, y'know, equal? ^^ Seriously, I don't wanna play on Insane 'cause I'm pretty lame, but I thought it would be cool if the AI will beat you with pure strategy skills. No with some sort of cheating. Ah, nevermind =P

Are you aware that the "hard" setting will be just that - an equal setup where the AI tries to "beat you with pure strategy skills"? The Insane mode is just for the players who want an additional challenge - what's wrong with that?
ModeratorNon veritas sed auctoritas facit legem. | Liquipedia: Don't ask me, I'm retired.
Latham
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
9593 Posts
May 09 2009 10:58 GMT
#52
Thanks for the interview! Apart from a few stupid questions by GameStar, the interview was very enjoyable and puts a lot of my lost faith back into Blizz and Dustin. He seems to really know what makes SC so exciting and fun to play. Cheers!
For the curse of life is the curse of want. PC = https://be.pcpartpicker.com/user/LathamTK/builds/#view=CrqmP6
HiOT
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Sweden1000 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-09 11:22:09
May 09 2009 11:19 GMT
#53
On May 09 2009 18:00 Klockan3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2009 17:18 AdunToridas wrote:
On May 09 2009 05:27 Aesop wrote:
Q: In paris we noticed that the AI opponents play extremely strong at the highest difficulty setting. Are they cheating?
A: Yes, on the highest setting "insane", the AI profits from additional resources. On all other settings, the opponents do not cheat. [...]

C'mon.. this must be a joke. And a very bad one as well..

Just don't play on highest if you do not like a cheating AI, also the AI cheated in sc1 and in wc3 and in almost every RTS you ever played.

Show nested quote +
On May 09 2009 08:11 Lobbo wrote:
On May 09 2009 05:27 Aesop wrote:


Q: Apropos huge armies. In comparison to its predecessor, you are allowed to select many more units in Sc2. And that's great. But still, some game concepts seem antiquated, for example the 3D camera that does not zoom out very far. Or the production queue that can only hold five units. Why did you change unit selection but kept the other elements the same?
A: There is a quite obvious reason for the camera position. I am not a big fan of zooming out very far from battles. In other games, this might work out, but not in Starcraft. There is so much Micro that the battles would look confusing if you could zoom out further. Also the atmosphere would get lost - the units would transform into tiny symbols and you couldn't recognise anymore, how diligently they are designed. The feeling of fighting for a distinctive faction would get lost - and just in Starcraft, with its three characteristic races! Zoomed out very far, those battles would degenerate to a feud of ants. This might be appropriate for games like Supreme Commander, which are fully geared towards the zoom function, that have huge maps on which the units traverse very long distances. But Starcraft works differently: It happens faster, matches often last only half an hour. A zoom function simply wouldn't fit in.


Whaaaa

Do not read things out of context please, if you look you see that he discussed supreme commander just before so what he meant is that in starcraft most games ends before the 30 minute mark(Which is unlike supcom). Larger army limits as in supcom are therefore not really necessary (According to him) and might even be a bad thing since it can allow games to last even longer with people just building and building just like they do in supcom.

Then he would have said so? It clearly means that if you dont get an early advantage or have superior skills you will end up having a regular game that is around 30 minutes or more. And a Supcom game lasts for MAX 30 minutes.
Officially the founder of Team Property (:
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33723 Posts
May 09 2009 12:14 GMT
#54
Lobbo, honestly, I'll repeat what I said earlier:
He is almost definitely tailoring his answers towards his audience.

Every other instance (including the official page) they talk about "15-20 minutes". Not to mention the average game length of both SC and WC3 is 15 minutes.

Don't make a hen out of a feather..
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
Klockan3
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Sweden2866 Posts
May 09 2009 12:15 GMT
#55
On May 09 2009 20:19 Lobbo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2009 18:00 Klockan3 wrote:
On May 09 2009 17:18 AdunToridas wrote:
On May 09 2009 05:27 Aesop wrote:
Q: In paris we noticed that the AI opponents play extremely strong at the highest difficulty setting. Are they cheating?
A: Yes, on the highest setting "insane", the AI profits from additional resources. On all other settings, the opponents do not cheat. [...]

C'mon.. this must be a joke. And a very bad one as well..

Just don't play on highest if you do not like a cheating AI, also the AI cheated in sc1 and in wc3 and in almost every RTS you ever played.

On May 09 2009 08:11 Lobbo wrote:
On May 09 2009 05:27 Aesop wrote:


Q: Apropos huge armies. In comparison to its predecessor, you are allowed to select many more units in Sc2. And that's great. But still, some game concepts seem antiquated, for example the 3D camera that does not zoom out very far. Or the production queue that can only hold five units. Why did you change unit selection but kept the other elements the same?
A: There is a quite obvious reason for the camera position. I am not a big fan of zooming out very far from battles. In other games, this might work out, but not in Starcraft. There is so much Micro that the battles would look confusing if you could zoom out further. Also the atmosphere would get lost - the units would transform into tiny symbols and you couldn't recognise anymore, how diligently they are designed. The feeling of fighting for a distinctive faction would get lost - and just in Starcraft, with its three characteristic races! Zoomed out very far, those battles would degenerate to a feud of ants. This might be appropriate for games like Supreme Commander, which are fully geared towards the zoom function, that have huge maps on which the units traverse very long distances. But Starcraft works differently: It happens faster, matches often last only half an hour. A zoom function simply wouldn't fit in.


Whaaaa

Do not read things out of context please, if you look you see that he discussed supreme commander just before so what he meant is that in starcraft most games ends before the 30 minute mark(Which is unlike supcom). Larger army limits as in supcom are therefore not really necessary (According to him) and might even be a bad thing since it can allow games to last even longer with people just building and building just like they do in supcom.

Then he would have said so? It clearly means that if you dont get an early advantage or have superior skills you will end up having a regular game that is around 30 minutes or more. And a Supcom game lasts for MAX 30 minutes.

Did you even read what he said? He said that in STARCRAFT (Not 2) the games lasts only half an hour! This have nothing to do with 2!

Also noob games in supcom never ends early and I am sure that these guys are noobs or they wouldn't have asked that question which means that that response is 100% appropriate, only in the higher level games do they always end early since the game (supcom) do not really have a good rhythm.
ocoini
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
648 Posts
May 09 2009 12:18 GMT
#56
I am wondering how the AI would infact react to hidden tech. In SC1 we are getting more adapt at responding to it now, as many play very safe and the "only" timeing for hidden tech is right from the start of the game.

Would it build and liftoff engineering bay's to get by a blocked choke to scout the main base.
Or read our builds after a scout, to find out that something is missing from our build/ongoing upgrades/worker count? etc... hmmmmmm......
Street Vendor Crack Down Princess-Cop!
Aesop
Profile Joined October 2007
Hungary11305 Posts
May 09 2009 12:23 GMT
#57
On May 09 2009 21:18 ocoini wrote:
I am wondering how the AI would infact react to hidden tech. In SC1 we are getting more adapt at responding to it now, as many play very safe and the "only" timeing for hidden tech is right from the start of the game.

Would it build and liftoff engineering bay's to get by a blocked choke to scout the main base.
Or read our builds after a scout, to find out that something is missing from our build/ongoing upgrades/worker count? etc... hmmmmmm......

It would have to do something like guessing or inferring the most likely possibility, based on the current level of play. That's about impossible, since predicting standard strategy and openings just when the game comes out would be prophetic.
ModeratorNon veritas sed auctoritas facit legem. | Liquipedia: Don't ask me, I'm retired.
VIB
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Brazil3567 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-09 15:23:19
May 09 2009 15:20 GMT
#58
Q: But the day-night cycle and the weather effects wouldn't have any gameplay effects?
A: We talked about it, and even tested it, but the answer's: No. We do not want maps with differing rules. Just imagine a snowy area in which ground troops move more slowly. That would completely revert the balance. The Zerg would suffer a lot, since they are highly dependant on their speed. Or imagine rainy maps, on which the sight-range of flying units is reduced. The balance would be shaky and we would have to rebalance the races just because of the stupid rain. That might be an interesting idea for the future, but at the moment we don't want it.
What a fucking huge lack of vision. -10 points credibility in Blizzard.

Maps are what kept their first game balanced and running for a long time. We wouldn't be playing it today if LT and the hunters were our only options. It is the map makers that balances the meta game as it develops. The more tools the map makers have to work with to balance the meta game in the map. The better. Worst case scenario: simply don't use it.

Terrible terrible damage..
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people.
Latham
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
9593 Posts
May 09 2009 15:26 GMT
#59
On May 10 2009 00:20 VIB wrote:
Show nested quote +
Q: But the day-night cycle and the weather effects wouldn't have any gameplay effects?
A: We talked about it, and even tested it, but the answer's: No. We do not want maps with differing rules. Just imagine a snowy area in which ground troops move more slowly. That would completely revert the balance. The Zerg would suffer a lot, since they are highly dependant on their speed. Or imagine rainy maps, on which the sight-range of flying units is reduced. The balance would be shaky and we would have to rebalance the races just because of the stupid rain. That might be an interesting idea for the future, but at the moment we don't want it.
What a fucking huge lack of vision. -10 points credibility in Blizzard.

Maps are what kept their first game balanced and running for a long time. We wouldn't be playing it today if LT and the hunters were our only options. It is the map makers that balances the meta game as it develops. The more tools the map makers have to work with to balance the meta game in the map. The better. Worst case scenario: simply don't use it.

Terrible terrible damage..


Dude I think that day/night cycles and weather effects are going to be in, just that they won't affect any race in any way. They said their Map Editor will be pretty powerful, so I'd wager a guess that you could still add effects to cycles and weather.
For the curse of life is the curse of want. PC = https://be.pcpartpicker.com/user/LathamTK/builds/#view=CrqmP6
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
May 09 2009 15:29 GMT
#60
On May 09 2009 14:08 GTR wrote:
I don't know why people are negative about neutral buildings, they are there to serve a purpose similar to the neutral buildings in SC1 (like the Xel'Naga/Protoss Temples and Power Generators).


Yeah, and they can be removed by the map makers if it doesn't work well.
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
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