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Colossus attack buffed! - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Polyphasic
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States841 Posts
April 18 2009 08:41 GMT
#61
you forgot:

MICRO: COllosus LOSES BIG TIME against reaver

SPECTATORSHIP: collosus sucks big time and loses again vs reaver


can't making a relationship last longer than 2 weeks, since 1984 :thumbs:
Doctorasul
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Romania1145 Posts
April 18 2009 09:09 GMT
#62
On April 18 2009 17:21 latent wrote:
I heard that in very early builds of Starcraft 2, specifically before Blizzcon 2007, Blizzard had implemented reavers into the game. Just because I salivate at the thought of seeing a 3D version of the reaver, does anyone know where to find a video of such an early version of the game?


At 2:00, in the upper side of the screen.
"I believe in Spinoza's god who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a god who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings." - Albert Einstein
scwizard
Profile Joined March 2009
United States1195 Posts
April 18 2009 09:16 GMT
#63
lol I can't believe I didn't know the phase canon could move until I saw that video.
shimmy
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Poland997 Posts
April 18 2009 09:27 GMT
#64
On April 18 2009 05:20 Osmoses wrote:
The way the reaver works is just more fun.


This. I liked the buffed Colossus though.
Hell hath no fury like the vast robot armies of a woman scorned.
Unentschieden
Profile Joined August 2007
Germany1471 Posts
April 18 2009 09:48 GMT
#65
On April 18 2009 17:32 maybenexttime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2009 06:39 Tyrant wrote:
On April 18 2009 06:23 CrimsonLotus wrote:
On April 18 2009 05:46 Last Romantic wrote:
New colossus is actually pretty solid.

Lack of randomness factor + reebohreebohreeboh means the old unit is still preferred from a spectator point of view, though.


Most people around here say randomness is bad for competitive play and therefore for the game as a spectator sport, but then other say that random things (like the retarded scarab AI) are what makes the game great as a spectator sport.

So, which one is it?


It's both. The retarded AI of scarabs means that you can micro away from them. It's not entirely "retarded ai" it's a combination of where the protoss decides to drop his reavers and at what angle the fleeing drones move toward. The paths can be gotten used to by the protoss as a shot from a particular point will take the same path if neither the reaver nor the target move.

If every single scarab was guaranteed to land then reavers would be used in 100% of protoss games because their cost would be justified in 2-3 scarabs.


There's a way to get rid of all the randomness while retaining the excitement factor!

Why not make the scarabs work like Hunter Seeker missile? They would be able to travel an equivalent of 1.5 of Reaver's range and then blow up without dealing any damage if they don't reach their target.

That way micro matters on both sides, there's no luck involved and the excitement is still there: will he react and escape in time? will he scatter his units properly?


The actual idea behind the HS Missile ISN´T to dodge it for 15 seconds - you are supposed to guide it into the enemy ranks. In BR2 at about 16 Minutes in we see a Nighthawk destroy itself by dropping a HS right under itself - there was no Air Targeting Zerg unit at the time.
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5522 Posts
April 18 2009 10:26 GMT
#66
On April 18 2009 18:48 Unentschieden wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2009 17:32 maybenexttime wrote:
On April 18 2009 06:39 Tyrant wrote:
On April 18 2009 06:23 CrimsonLotus wrote:
On April 18 2009 05:46 Last Romantic wrote:
New colossus is actually pretty solid.

Lack of randomness factor + reebohreebohreeboh means the old unit is still preferred from a spectator point of view, though.


Most people around here say randomness is bad for competitive play and therefore for the game as a spectator sport, but then other say that random things (like the retarded scarab AI) are what makes the game great as a spectator sport.

So, which one is it?


It's both. The retarded AI of scarabs means that you can micro away from them. It's not entirely "retarded ai" it's a combination of where the protoss decides to drop his reavers and at what angle the fleeing drones move toward. The paths can be gotten used to by the protoss as a shot from a particular point will take the same path if neither the reaver nor the target move.

If every single scarab was guaranteed to land then reavers would be used in 100% of protoss games because their cost would be justified in 2-3 scarabs.


There's a way to get rid of all the randomness while retaining the excitement factor!

Why not make the scarabs work like Hunter Seeker missile? They would be able to travel an equivalent of 1.5 of Reaver's range and then blow up without dealing any damage if they don't reach their target.

That way micro matters on both sides, there's no luck involved and the excitement is still there: will he react and escape in time? will he scatter his units properly?


The actual idea behind the HS Missile ISN´T to dodge it for 15 seconds - you are supposed to guide it into the enemy ranks. In BR2 at about 16 Minutes in we see a Nighthawk destroy itself by dropping a HS right under itself - there was no Air Targeting Zerg unit at the time.


Yeah, what's your point?

I'm talking about the fact that they can make scarabs work even with good pathing, not about the implications (since scarabs don't deal damage to friendly units, unless I'm mistaken).
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-18 10:37:47
April 18 2009 10:31 GMT
#67
45 Damage seems a lot , should be a good support against small units or worker raids vs zerg in general . Good thing we zergs still have mutas :D
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
April 18 2009 10:55 GMT
#68
On April 18 2009 18:16 scwizard wrote:
lol I can't believe I didn't know the phase canon could move until I saw that video.

They removed this ability
Tempest's were pretty cool I wouldn't have minded losing the carrier for that...
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Fen
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Australia1848 Posts
April 18 2009 12:08 GMT
#69
Reaver was interesting because it was unique and required finese. It needed to be supported by a shuttle or it had no mobility, it had a very long reload time and cost money to fire meaning you had to select targets. And its high burst damage output meant it allowed for some really tense situations.

The collossus is just a generic unit that does good damage with the ability to scale cliffs. Maybe a change in how it attacks would be better to make it more unique.
Lag
Profile Joined March 2009
Serbia22 Posts
April 18 2009 12:40 GMT
#70
the thing is, the point of starcraft 2 will be high ground/low ground battles. half the units are designed like that, the other half also has an option to do that with the helf of some other units etc etc.
reaver is shuttle dependant to do the high/low ground switch, colossus isnt. i can see people having loads of fun with it
mjau mjau mjau mjau
Hammy
Profile Joined January 2009
France828 Posts
April 18 2009 12:40 GMT
#71
On April 18 2009 19:55 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2009 18:16 scwizard wrote:
lol I can't believe I didn't know the phase canon could move until I saw that video.

They removed this ability
Tempest's were pretty cool I wouldn't have minded losing the carrier for that...

Yeah, and I don't get why it's still called a phase canon since it can no longer phase in/out. Unless it's back to photon canon, they're just changing the name for the sake of novelty.
Though, of course that's a very minor detail.
Hiicantpk
Profile Joined March 2009
Canada72 Posts
April 18 2009 17:02 GMT
#72
Tbh, i like the uses of each unit in their own unique way, but my vote goes to the colossus mainly because the new reaver looks like a yellow I-Fish.
Defence bound and Shit like that
da_head
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3350 Posts
April 18 2009 18:19 GMT
#73
wait. the collosus has a potential range of 9, and it does 45 now? o.o

though i will miss the reaver. had some good times with that little guy.
When they see MC Probe, all the ladies disrobe.
CursOr
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States6335 Posts
April 18 2009 18:58 GMT
#74
let SC1 go.
reaver is cool, i wouldnt be opposed to him making an appearance.
but Colossus all the way. thats my favorite SC2 unit.
CJ forever (-_-(-_-(-_-(-_-)-_-)-_-)-_-)
FragKrag
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States11549 Posts
April 18 2009 20:45 GMT
#75
Despite the new colossus buff, and my numerous heart breaking sessions with reavers (both as terran and protoss), I still prefer reavers. The reaver was easily my favorite unit of SC, and the reason I played protoss for a while.


*TL CJ Entusman #40* "like scissors does anything to paper except MAKE IT MORE NUMEROUS" -paper
Archaic
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States4024 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-18 20:52:42
April 18 2009 20:52 GMT
#76
On April 18 2009 06:22 Darth_Ihsahn wrote:
I just can't imagine a "colosus" version of this:

+ Show Spoiler [Aphelion beat me to it] +


Easy, KOLOSEEKOLOSEEKOLOSEEKOLOSEEKOLOSEEKOLOSEEKOLOSEEKOLOSEE
KOLOSEEKOLOSEEKOLOSEEKOLOSEEKOLOSEEKOLOSEEKOLOSEEKOLOSEE
KOLOSEEKOLOSEE!!!!!!!!!

Though REEBOH is 100x better.
Klockan3
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Sweden2866 Posts
April 18 2009 21:43 GMT
#77
On April 18 2009 06:21 Aphelion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2009 05:18 MoNSteR_K4iSeR wrote:

Price: Colossus wins over Reaver

Colossus wins because althought it cost 100 minerals and gas more then the reaver, it doesn't need to recharge its attach with additional recources . The fact that you harvest gas more rapidly in Starcraft 2 also kind of nullify the 100 additional gas you pay for the colossus.



This is an extremely negligible factor. The Colossus is definitely much more expensive. You do need to account for the shuttle cost (and subsequently greater micro possibilities and mobility) the reaver requires though.

Also Colossus doesn't have this :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msSvZPZXwJU

Watch that without sound and you have how exciting the reaver would seem in sc2 if it was a new unit.
Insane Lane
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States397 Posts
April 19 2009 04:23 GMT
#78
New colossus damage looks awesome and just what they need!

I can really imagine them being the new reaver/lurker, in terms of the fact that they deal heavy aoe damage and force the opponent to micro against them. And how will the tech timing compare for colossus vs. marine combat shields?
da_head
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3350 Posts
April 19 2009 04:30 GMT
#79
if its lasers could be dodged (and directed), i think that would add for a lot of subsequent micro. thoughts?
When they see MC Probe, all the ladies disrobe.
MoNSteR_K4iSeR
Profile Joined March 2009
United States46 Posts
April 19 2009 07:11 GMT
#80
I believe that the marines can get their combat shields before the colossus. It depends on the build order and we can't be sure till the beta came out.
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