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Terran Macro Mechanic: Drop Pods 4.0
Updated 2/9/09
-After Engineering Bay a Command Center can build up to 4 Drop Pod Add-ons. Cost and build time are the same as an SCV (50 minerals, 18 seconds).
-Infantry can be ordered into the Drop Pod (5 slots). SCVs, reapers, ghosts, maruaders and marines cound as infantry. Units can be rallied into Drop Pod.
-Player hits launch hotkey and selects drop location. Can drop anywhere within a Sensor Tower's range. The entire Add-on is launched and a new one must be build for it to be used again.
Terran Macro Mechanic: Drop Pods 3.0
Updated 1/29/09
-After factory a Command Center can purchase a Drop Pod for 10 minerals. Build time is 10 (about half of an SCV). Drop Pod rises out of the top of CC.
-Infantry can be ordered into the Drop Pod (5 slots). SCVs, reapers, ghosts, maruaders and marines cound as infantry. Units can't be rallied into Drop Pod.
-Player hits launch hotkey and selects drop location. Can drop anywhere within a Sensor Tower's range.
Drop Pods 2.0
Updated 1/27/09
-After factory tech a command center can purchase a drop pod for 25 min. Build time is 17 (same as an SCV). Drop pod rises out of the top of CC.
-Infantry units can be ordered into the drop pod (5 slots). Player hits launch hotkey and selects drop location. Units can't be rallied into a drop pod.
-Can drop anywhere terran player has units or buildings. So if you have a marine out in a field you can drop in a small range around him.
Couple uses:
-Combo with medivac for enhanced mobility and healing.
-Combo with cloaked ghost to infiltrate enemy base and drop in 5 backup infantry.
-Combo with Nighthawk mines to drop in a location your opponent thought you couldn't.
-Great for getting slow moving mauraders into the battle quickly rather then waiting for them to waddle across the map.
-Send one reaper behind enemy lines into mineral line, drop in 5 more reapers.
-Drop 5 new SCV's at that new expansion.
-Drop SCV's on that tank line for repairing.
-Drop marines behind enemies when they get in range of your troops. Allows for a surprise sneak attack.
Original Post: Drop Pods 1.0
How it Works
Command Center could be upgraded to Launch Center. Launch Center would have a Launch Rally Point that could be set to any Barracks. Units produced at Barracks with the Launch Rally Point would be automatically sent to a Drop Pod in the Launch Center. Drop Pods would have five infantry slots and once full could be dropped anywhere Terran player has vision (combo with comsat).
If a drop pod is full but not launched the marine would follow the regular rally point of the barracks it was produced at. This is why the lauch rally point is on the launch center and not the barracks.
Basically, when an infantry unit is produced instead of poping out of the barracks they are fitted into a drop pod. You can not load infantry already on the battlefield into the launch center. It is the same as not being able to warp-in an already produced zealot from one pylon to another.
Macro
Now say you wanted to make a drop pod with five marines. New players could set the launch rally point to one barracks and wait for all five marines to be produced out of that barracks. More experienced players could instead produce five marines from five different barracks and alternate the Launch Rally Point between barracks as each marine is produced. This produces a Drop Pod 5X as fast.
Notice that alternating the launch rally point between barracks is almost the same as SBS. Click rally point hotkey, select barracks, click rally point hotkey, select barracks.
Balance
To balance this mechanic I would give the protoss a mechanic where they can teleport in units in pylon power. For the zerg I would probably give them some sort of nydus ability. Further balance considerations can be addressed by a number of means including: Giving drop pods a min/gas cost, Making Launch Center Tier 2 or 3, Making the ghost call down drop pods, etc…
Cocrafted with Psi Warp and GnaReffotsirk
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Doesn't work with MBS....select 5 rax go mmmmm => pod
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On January 24 2009 06:57 SWPIGWANG wrote:
Doesn't work with MBS....select 5 rax go mmmmm => pod
Selecting 5 rax and clicking on the Launch Center won't work. Launch rappy point is from Launch Center to Barracks. To set the Launch rally point you have to select the barracks with your cursor. So you could have your Launch Center hotkeyed to 2 and five rax hotkeyed to 3. You can select your Launch Center with 2 and then hit the launch rally point hotkey (lets make it L). But now you need to set the launch rally point. This means you have to click one of the rax.
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Fastest way would be to rally 5 raxes right next to the Launch Center and then manually tell the marines to enter. Why bother manually setting 5 rally points when you can just set 1?
Edit: Ok, the reason for it doesn't really make sense. But whatever.
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Basically, when an infantry unit is produced instead of poping out of the barracks they are fitted into a drop pod. You can not load infantry already on the battlefield into the launch center. It is the same as not being able to warp-in an already produced zealot from one pylon to another.
If a drop pod is full but not launched the marine would follow the regular rally point of the barracks it was produced at. This is why the lauch rally point is on the launch center and not the barracks.
Edit: Added clarification to opening post.
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If they used this, they would get so much shit for making terran the exact same thing as space marines in Dawn of War
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On January 24 2009 08:22 MaiBoA38 wrote:
If they used this, they would get so much shit for making terran the exact same thing as space marines in Dawn of War
I agree. Dispite the fact they are MILES apart in terms of how they play and even fundamentally different. They are still dudes with guns, with lots of armored shit. The average gaming idiot looks at what they look like, rather than how they play... which irritates me to this day.
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On January 24 2009 07:29 Archerofaiur wrote:
Basically, when an infantry unit is produced instead of poping out of the barracks they are fitted into a drop pod. You can not load infantry already on the battlefield into the launch center. It is the same as not being able to warp-in an already produced zealot from one pylon to another.
Except in the case of warp-in it makes sense since warp-in is in itself production, while this drop pod thing is taking already produced units, but for some arbitrary reason you can only do it right when they come out of the barracks.
I like the idea, but it really doesn't seem to have any kind of logic to it.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On January 24 2009 08:22 MaiBoA38 wrote:
If they used this, they would get so much shit for making terran the exact same thing as space marines in Dawn of War
They already used to have a drop pod ability in the game tho, it just worked a bit differently.
I'm too tired to be sure I've got how this works precisely, but I like it - solving it this way is better than forcing mechanics that mimick manual mining/sbs.
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I think it's a bit too unintuitive. Having all this stuff about shifting around the rally point and staggering production just doesn't sound right.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Ahhh, I'm really starting to think the warp-in/drop pod/nydus worm trifecta is the answer.
I think I've understood how you want it to work but I think it's slightly unintuitive (ie why can't I send old units into the drop pod, why can't I just rally multiple rax to the drop pod etc).
Infact, if the main requirement for a macro mechanic (aside from it being fun/cool, which this certainly seems like it is!) is screen-change, then the mere fact that you have to set the rally point from your raxes to the drop pod should be enough to fullfil it, right?
IE:
5mmmmmm-> Rally to drop pod (click on drop pod, should probably be a secondary type of rally - like how drones and military units have different rally points for zerg).
Another way to do it would be to keep the calldown. HOWEVER, I would probably not put it on the Ghost! The reason for this is simply that Ghosts, while they look more useful than in SC, still seem like "specialist" units, meaning the ability wouldn't see nearly as much use as the Warp-in, which requires nothing but an ordinary Pylon.
No, I think the calldown ability should be given to something that's easier to access for a terran.. Some ideas:
- Allow SCVs to create Homing Beacons that work sort of like pylons by providing an area into which you can call down your Drop Pod.
- Allow Terran units (or buildings) to equip homing beacons (it could be an in the field upgrade) for a price.
As for not allowing already produced units to enter drop pods - why (aside from possible balance concerns)? If you want to send an already produced unit into a drop pod it's a process very similiar to macro - select unit, move screen to drop pod, click on drop pod, launch drop pod.
To further facilitate their use, Drop Pods could be an addon to the Barracks (or a stand alone building I suppose).
The Nydus Worm
About Nydus Worms (I know this thread is mostly about Drop Pods but the Worms are mentioned in the OP), I really liked them better when they were a unit on their own... This is my proposal for how to make them work:
Currently Nydus Worms are dropped from Overseers, as a spell. I think this is significantly less interesting than having a Nydus Worm unit that you can move underground, and choose where to pop up, the way it used to behave. I suppose it's not great for the Zerg to have a unit that tunnels and does nothing else (the Warp Prism doubles as a pylon, the Dropship is a Medivac now..) so how about this:
The Nydus Worm is summoned by the Overseer, but as an actual unit (can cost Mana or Minerals/Gas), and can move around. When it pops out of the ground it goes into Canal mode and units can pass through it (sort of like Siege mode for a tank).
A problem I can see is that the other two races need a pylon/homing beacon while the zerg would need nothing - so perhaps the way it works now is best.. Hm I'm not sure tho, I definitely like the idea of being able to control the tunneler  Having it be a unit that can simply tunnel between any creep point would be ok too I guess.
In the end we are left with 3 mechanics that accomplish much the same thing while still being unique for each race. They are all going to be used regularly, fullfilling the possible macro gap, without relying (in the slightest) on an outdated (by RTS genre standards) UI.
I now strongly feel Blizzard were on to something good with the Drop Pod/Warp-In/Nydus mechanics.
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Infact, if the main requirement for a macro mechanic (aside from it being fun/cool, which this certainly seems like it is!) is screen-change
If you look at the SCL proposals, it is a necessary but not sufficient condition. What a macro mechanic needs to do is to interrupt you, consistently, every 30 seconds or so per base if the macro people are to be believed.
So abilities you don't use every 30 seconds just don't cut it.
Strategic things that you do a few times a game, like a drop attack, is far too irregular and uncommon to be a macro mechanic! You need to do it all the time or else you are not being interrupted enough!
/whine
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Sweden33719 Posts
Blabla, it doesn't have to be an exact copy of SBS (and I know you are just mimicking the regular complaints ;p).
Anyway, warp-in will be used constantly, and if done right then Drop Pods would be too. Nydus Worms are trickier but I guess you could have a rally to nydus tunnel -> go to nydus exit of your choice and unload.
Meh.
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The reason I put the launch rally point on the command center was two fold. One if your drop pod is full your marines would then follow the barrack's rally point. Second if you make it so the barracks can rally to the CC then I can rally 5 rax there and then remotely que marines. I never have to come back to the base for a targeted action. I can then drop the pod on my army with hotkeys.
Now say we can include a targeted action in the base that involves the drop pod. If we do this then we can allow units that are produced in the base to enter the drop pod. The drop pod would then serve as a kind of super jump, catipulting units into battle. The catch is that we need to find a targeting action. In the opening post this was the launch rally point.
The biggest issue with drop pods and the nydus worm seems to be limitations on where to drop. For the drop pod I was thinking anywhere the terran player has units with the lore being that drop pods can only fall near other units because the units call them down. However, this would just be the lore, you wouldn't have to click a marine and call the drop pods as one of his abilities.
The nydus worm faced problems because you could tunnel directly into an opponents base. What if we allow the nydus worm to tunnel anywhere but it cant enter the vicinity of an opponents buildings. So like maybe the psi field generated by pylons stops it and enemy creep stops it (oh wait creep is neutral, darn). Thoughts?
Finally, I will try and sum up the whole loading the drop pod part in one sentence to point out that its not overly complex (at least in my opinion).
The command center has a launch rally point that fits newly produced units in a drop pod.
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Drop pods are a blatant rip off of Warhammer 40,000. Change it to a dropship drop. Hell, Para-troopers would be pretty cool as well.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Well the Nydus Worm problems really are solved by only allowing it to "deploy" on Creep, a trait that can be kept regardless of the form the Nydus Worm takes.
As for why I suggested a Homing Beacon building, I think that would force about the same screen change as Warp-In. You never have to go back to your base for Warp-in, but you have to go to a pylon field to place the units right?
With a Homing Beacon you would just have to go to such an area to call the Drop Pod down.
I guess you'd have to disable mini-map calldowns tho.
Speaking of targetting points, you could simply have it so that you have to manually click on the Drop Pod to load units into it, just like how rallying units to a dropship doesn't make them enter the dropship.
That way you have to go back to base everytime you want to load the pods.
On January 25 2009 03:22 UmmTheHobo wrote:
Drop pods are a blatant rip off of Warhammer 40,000. Change it to a dropship drop. Hell, Para-troopers would be pretty cool as well.
Meh, Blizzard already had Drop Pods in the game, I honestly don't care if it's a rip-off or not as it's a fun ability.
The Tyranid Ravener's tunneling ability is a Nydus Worm rip-off too.
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On January 25 2009 03:26 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Well the Nydus Worm problems really are solved by only allowing it to "deploy" on Creep, a trait that can be kept regardless of the form the Nydus Worm take.
I think I like this solution. So the nydus worm would tunnel underground but could only surface on creep. There are some problems like island maps but you could still use overlords for that.
On January 25 2009 03:26 FrozenArbiter wrote:
As for why I suggested a Homing Beacon building, I think that would force about the same screen change as Warp-In. You never have to go back to your base for Warp-in, but you have to go to a pylon field to place the units right?
When you arn't warping in with a proxy pylon or warp prism you are going to be warping in using pylons in your base.
On January 25 2009 03:22 UmmTheHobo wrote:
Drop pods are a blatant rip off of Warhammer 40,000. Change it to a dropship drop. Hell, Para-troopers would be pretty cool as well.
All of Starcraft is a blatant rip off of Warhammer 40,000, which is a blatant rip-off of starship troopers, alien movie, lord of the rings, etc...
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Sweden33719 Posts
I think I like this solution. So the nydus worm would tunnel underground but could only surface on creep. There are some problems like island maps, though.
Well there are some solutions to Island Map problems I think:
1) The worm could behave like the DoW2 tunneler - Click where you want to tunnel to, a few seconds later (depending on distance) the worm pops up.
2) The Overseer could be the Nydus worm - basically it would spew creep, then dive into it (there's no reason why it couldn't swim, and in space, well it will just float like usual).
When you arn't warping in with a proxy pylon or warp prism you are going to be warping in using pylons in your base.
Ok, fair enough. But what about what I suggested above, that you have to manually enter your units into the drop pods - much like you'd have to manually enter a dropship? So you rally the units to the drop pod with your MBS hotkeyed Barracks, but then you have to order them to actually enter the building.
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On January 25 2009 04:00 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +I think I like this solution. So the nydus worm would tunnel underground but could only surface on creep. There are some problems like island maps, though.
Well there are some solutions to Island Map problems I think: 1) The worm could behave like the DoW2 tunneler - Click where you want to tunnel to, a few seconds later (depending on distance) the worm pops up. 2) The Overseer could be the Nydus worm - basically it would spew creep, then dive into it (there's no reason why it couldn't swim, and in space, well it will just float like usual). I thought about that a couple months back. It might work. Would you still need to cast creep or could the overseer just morph anywhere into a worm. One thing to note we are no longer dealing with a worm "unit." Its now like a spell that you have to sacrifice a overlord for. Show nested quote +When you arn't warping in with a proxy pylon or warp prism you are going to be warping in using pylons in your base.
Ok, fair enough. But what about what I suggested above, that you have to manually enter your units into the drop pods - much like you'd have to manually enter a dropship? So you rally the units to the drop pod with your MBS hotkeyed Barracks, but then you have to order them to actually enter the building.
I am still thinking how this could work. Could you give a little more detail? It might not be bad but the question is will people just say "why can't I rally my units into it?"
Now its kind of like sending units into the nydus network after they are produced. When you rally a hatchery to a nydus network do the units automatically enter the network?
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Sweden33719 Posts
I'm not sure.
However, if you rally a unit to a bunker, I'm almost sure it doesn't automatically enter. If you rally to a dropship I'm also almost sure it doesn't auto pick up the unit.
Ah, and if you want you could perhaps have a special rally point for the building - something like "Load unit into Drop-pod", but you'd have to click it for every production cycle (since you might not want the next round of units to enter the drop pods right?).
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EPT
