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[O] WWI Starcraft 2 information - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
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MrRammstein
Profile Joined May 2008
Poland339 Posts
June 29 2008 20:30 GMT
#101
lol how can anything be overpowered if both players can use it??
account abandoned:P RIP
Chuiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
3470 Posts
June 29 2008 20:30 GMT
#102
On June 29 2008 21:20 Drizzit wrote:
Zergling with MORE wings!
[image loading]
^^

http://www.sclegacy.com/content/wwi-08-coverage-11/wwi-08-coverage---starcraft-ii-art-panel-91/
Art Panel

Samwise better be BS'ing us. The Zerg better not have wings when the game is released.

Furthermore WTF @ adding polygons? I know they want to make shit look better but I thought they wanted to make the game available to more people also.
♞
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-29 20:37:52
June 29 2008 20:37 GMT
#103
The new gas mechanic is going to add a lot of complexity to resource management and to the variety of build orders you can do. I love it. I'm glad to see Blizzard can come up with these kind of good ideas.
Unentschieden
Profile Joined August 2007
Germany1471 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-29 20:42:36
June 29 2008 20:40 GMT
#104
On June 30 2008 04:14 ForAdun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2008 03:37 Unentschieden wrote:
On June 30 2008 03:25 ForAdun wrote:
I have a good reason to only criticize the game because that way it will be far better than if everyone is like "well this can be good or it can be bad, in my opinion it's blabla, and after all it's up to Blizzard". Instead I smear my opinion right into their faces because I think they'll get sloppy designing SC2 if I - any many more - don't. It happened to D2, it happened to WC3, it happened to WoW. If we don't act now and if we don't keep doing this they'll screw it up just like the other mentioned games and I do not want that, no. After all I want to play SC2 as well if everyone's going to play it, I don't want to stay in an almost dead SC forever just because it's the better game of the two. That would be a nightmare, I'd rather quit playing it and I don't want that either, no.


We want you to defend your position not your person. Do you even know the term "constructive critcism?" Trust me, a hatecampaign won´t motivate anyone, do you really expect them to try any harder just because you complain about everything? More then the mechanic you should look at what Blizzard tries to accomlish and either give a criticism on THAT or a alternative implementation.


I´m supporting the gasmechanic because it is in line with changes I support, changes that try to increase economical (Macro) depht without cluttering the interface. I dislike to make production desicions not on the gamesituation but my resource reserves. I´d rather get the stuff I want even if I get a net loss.

Edit: To elaborate on that, the "trade" is very hard to make beneficial since in the long term it´s a net loss. Minerals are finite, Gas isn´t. The player that always restores gas has to really use that gas fast since his "lazy" enemy would have eventually more resources given everything else equal.


I´m curious how Blizzard "ruined" D2,WC3 or WOW in your opinon.


They didn't ruin those games completely but they screwed up a lot. D2 with superstrong and superrare items, endless leveling and endless streams of superweak monsters (too easy/stupid), multiplayer mode is a joke.


Thouse features are what made Singleplayer great. The knowledge that there always be a item that´s just a bit stronger... endless monsterstream true, but that makes it so brilliant that Blizzard managed to keep the player motivated through 3 difficulties. If you think it´s to easy I DARE you to play Hardcore.

Multiplayer is intended for Coop-play and imho that works. PvP is meh but honestly, thats not what D2 is about.

On June 30 2008 04:14 ForAdun wrote:
WC3 with the heroes, creeps and bad resource gathering system.

You are entitled to your opinion but these features make WC3 different not worse. I´d be surprised to find anyone who would like SC and WC3 equally, thouse games are just to different. You could say that resource gathering is actually better since there are slight differences between the races.

On June 30 2008 04:14 ForAdun wrote:
WoW with the everything-in-one attitude and recently gamers are complaining that the game is getting old already.
D3 is already on the way to become just like D2, they say they're working on it, well lets see. I'm not too interested in that game anyway but I think they'll find solutions especially if they do a good job with SC2.


The problem seems to be that you hate exactly the things that define the games. I´m surprised you mention D3 since at this point the information how much it will be like D2 can only be guessed.

On June 30 2008 04:14 ForAdun wrote:
Back to topic, this thread shows what I mean:
http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?FN=sc2-general&T=1393003&P=1
Imo a heavily overpowered function. I don't see why this should not be a gamebreaking feature. Of course it seems nice if you think about it for a while but with more rational thoughts you might notice some flaws. 100 mineral cost. Ok, that can be changed in a patch but it shows what they believe how much of an impact it will have on competitive games being played. Almost no impact in their eyes. Well, of course it will have a huge impact which is that you can gather 5k overmins, then sac 500 minerals on depleted geysers and then gain loads of extra gas in a short period of time. Who cares about 500 minerals in that situation? Nobody. Who cares about 1k extra gas per minute (guessed)? Well, everyone. In simple words: no harm, much gain.

If they patch it to something like 250 mineral cost per geyser though it will be just a useless feature. So what do?



A helpfull poster already did the math with the current numbers:

craftmatic2 wrote:

1) Spend 100 minerals = permanent loss of 100 minerals.

2) Permanently Lose ~45 seconds worth of "fumes", which I calculate to be somewhere between 60 and 100 gas.

3) Gain 400 gas in the extractor, but 2/6 of this you also would have mined anyway in LESS time without this mechanic. 2/6 of 400 ~133.

4) So basicly, for about the next minute or so, the person using this mechanic is actually behind in gas AND permanently behind in minerals, forever. It actually takes about 3 or 4 minutes for the ability to pay for itself by the time you count the opportunity cost of the 45 seconds of lost fumes, and the fact that 1/3 of the gas was yours either way.


5) Once again, there is no long term benefit from this mechanic, and the "short term" benefit occurs about 3 minutes or so after you use it. You will get a superficial spike in your gas, but you will not have enough minerals to be able to spend it anyway.

trollbone
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
France1905 Posts
June 29 2008 21:09 GMT
#105
Update

Youtube

Starcraft 2 develloper panel
- by Highways

First broadcasted stracraft 2 matches
([url blocked])
- by Pellucidity
MrRammstein
Profile Joined May 2008
Poland339 Posts
June 29 2008 21:20 GMT
#106
Of course minerals are crucial and so is expanding - this feature never will substitute expanding
but
What can be estimated time of worker after worker delivering gas? 2-3seconds?

45seconds / 3 = 15 turns worth of 2 gas from depleted geyser each
15 cycles * 2gas = 30gas - not 60 or 100

45 / 2 * 2 = 45 - closer to 60 but no way 100

What is 100minerals?
4 Zerglings?
2Marines?
Zealot?

What is additional 267gas mined? 2 Siege Tanks? Almost an Archon? Colossus?

What do you prefer? 8 Marines or 2 Siege Tanks?

Depends what is to counter!
account abandoned:P RIP
GunsofthePatriots
Profile Joined August 2007
South Africa991 Posts
June 29 2008 22:14 GMT
#107
Unless every unit and building is really gas intensive...

i can see minerals being more important in the long game because you can just restore your gas geysers.
mahnini
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
United States6862 Posts
June 29 2008 22:29 GMT
#108
This gas mechanic will not solve anything. It is about x10 more useless than SBS and who ever DOESN'T use it 100% of the time will be at a severe disadvantage. It adds nothing but useless complexity and is really bordering on making sc a clickfest.
the world's a playground. you know that when you're a kid, but somewhere along the way everyone forgets it.
GunsofthePatriots
Profile Joined August 2007
South Africa991 Posts
June 29 2008 22:32 GMT
#109
The mineral patches look so shiny and sexy
GunsofthePatriots
Profile Joined August 2007
South Africa991 Posts
June 29 2008 22:50 GMT
#110
Oooooh

I notice that the jackal looks more like a C&C 3 unit but it is the only one.

I'm glad they removed the lasers and added the flamethrowers!
GunsofthePatriots
Profile Joined August 2007
South Africa991 Posts
June 29 2008 22:57 GMT
#111
Can someone give me another place to download (or watch?)

the 30 minute terran gameplay?
mahnini
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
United States6862 Posts
June 29 2008 22:59 GMT
#112
sick triple post, what's your post quota for this week?
the world's a playground. you know that when you're a kid, but somewhere along the way everyone forgets it.
GunsofthePatriots
Profile Joined August 2007
South Africa991 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-30 00:02:10
June 29 2008 23:02 GMT
#113
On June 30 2008 07:59 mahnini wrote:
sick triple post, what's your post quota for this week?


Yeah i didn't notice that I was the only one posting in the thread

sorry about that




anyone have any idea where i can get the 30 minute terran gameplay video?

it seems that the site isn't working.
Polemarch
Profile Joined August 2005
Canada1564 Posts
June 29 2008 23:40 GMT
#114
Bravo Blizzard, I love this line of thinking. They're adding in more macro complexity - both strategy and multitasking - without artificial interface constraints. Fixing depleted geysers is nice, but it only takes effect later in the game.

How about an assimilator ability that cost minerals, makes your gas unharvestable for say 45 seconds, but then gives you 3x the gas for 45 seconds after that? Then you still get the multitasking requirements (click, take workers off, put workers on), and an interesting mechanic of trading minerals for gas (with a short-term gas drop), but it takes effect early-game, letting you do more interesting builds like timing your gas to spike when your factories are built or something.

Mutated larvae will also add some interesting variety in timing attacks (e.g. you could save up more larvae with fewer hatcheries for when your spire finishes - and proxy larvae).
I BELIEVE IN CAPITAL LETTER PUNISHMENT!!!!!
MrRammstein
Profile Joined May 2008
Poland339 Posts
June 29 2008 23:44 GMT
#115
On June 30 2008 08:02 GunsofthePatriots wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2008 07:59 mahnini wrote:
sick triple post, what's your post quota for this week?


Yeah i didn't notice that I was the only one posting in the thread

sorry about that




anyone have any idea where i can get the 30 minute terran gameplay video?

it seems that the site isn't orking.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=74280
account abandoned:P RIP
GunsofthePatriots
Profile Joined August 2007
South Africa991 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-29 23:57:39
June 29 2008 23:56 GMT
#116
On June 30 2008 08:44 MrRammstein wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2008 08:02 GunsofthePatriots wrote:
On June 30 2008 07:59 mahnini wrote:
sick triple post, what's your post quota for this week?


Yeah i didn't notice that I was the only one posting in the thread

sorry about that




anyone have any idea where i can get the 30 minute terran gameplay video?

it seems that the site isn't orking.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=74280


it's a terran gameplay video...

i already have the one you directed me to.

EDIT: The one i'm looking for is the 30 minute Terran gameplay video on Shakuras.
Polemarch
Profile Joined August 2005
Canada1564 Posts
June 29 2008 23:57 GMT
#117
Sheesh, I was going to post my previous suggestion on blizz's forum, but reading that is so painful. I'm just going to hope blizzard reads here.
I BELIEVE IN CAPITAL LETTER PUNISHMENT!!!!!
GunsofthePatriots
Profile Joined August 2007
South Africa991 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-30 00:02:27
June 30 2008 00:01 GMT
#118
On June 30 2008 08:02 GunsofthePatriots wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2008 07:59 mahnini wrote:
sick triple post, what's your post quota for this week?


Yeah i didn't notice that I was the only one posting in the thread

sorry about that




anyone have any idea where i can get the 30 minute terran gameplay video?

it seems that the site isn't working.


.... i accidentally quoted myself
MrRammstein
Profile Joined May 2008
Poland339 Posts
June 30 2008 00:03 GMT
#119
On June 30 2008 08:56 GunsofthePatriots wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2008 08:44 MrRammstein wrote:
On June 30 2008 08:02 GunsofthePatriots wrote:
On June 30 2008 07:59 mahnini wrote:
sick triple post, what's your post quota for this week?


Yeah i didn't notice that I was the only one posting in the thread

sorry about that




anyone have any idea where i can get the 30 minute terran gameplay video?

it seems that the site isn't orking.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=74280


it's a terran gameplay video...

i already have the one you directed me to.

EDIT: The one i'm looking for is the 30 minute Terran gameplay video on Shakuras.

k someone post if this is uploaded on You Tube because I can't download Terran Gameplay too
account abandoned:P RIP
antiq
Profile Joined June 2008
Slovakia191 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-06-30 00:14:17
June 30 2008 00:06 GMT
#120
On the gas trick: I believe the exact math is easy to change, they can frinstance make it so you pay like 75mins to boost the gas structure capacity to 2 peons at a time and at the same time boost their carrying capacity 2x for 50s.. and even if not so useful in normal conditions, you could find it useful with a mineral only expo in your nat or something along these lines.

So far we have terrans with the gas trick and make-2-marines-at-a-time addons (are they still present?), zerg with their mutated larva.. but what can the protoss do with their macro hungry apm?

edit: ooh yes I seem to remember something about a warp-in feature which is a bit more effective then normal production.. does someone know what it is about?

And another thing - the terran anti-air tower is detectoring again? I believe I saw someone building it behind the mineral lines against burrowed units, I think it was in that Naruto vs blizzguy match?
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