EPT[O] WWI Starcraft 2 information - Page 7
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
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ForAdun
Germany986 Posts
On June 30 2008 08:40 Polemarch wrote: Bravo Blizzard, I love this line of thinking. They're adding in more macro complexity - both strategy and multitasking - without artificial interface constraints. Fixing depleted geysers is nice, but it only takes effect later in the game. How about an assimilator ability that cost minerals, makes your gas unharvestable for say 45 seconds, but then gives you 3x the gas for 45 seconds after that? Then you still get the multitasking requirements (click, take workers off, put workers on), and an interesting mechanic of trading minerals for gas (with a short-term gas drop), but it takes effect early-game, letting you do more interesting builds like timing your gas to spike when your factories are built or something. Mutated larvae will also add some interesting variety in timing attacks (e.g. you could save up more larvae with fewer hatcheries for when your spire finishes - and proxy larvae). Yeah, lets flood the game with more and more stuff like that, we all want an interface that is so full of all reasonable, exciting and important options that make an RTS game so unique. We want to have multi-leveled vespene geysers that can be gathered from with upgraded workers that have really huge legs like the colossus and we want a vespeneral, a combination of gas and minerals that is created when workers take a dump and it can be socketed into units to make them more powerful and... and we also want a powerbooster built in the back of workers to make them gather faster for some minutes and yeah I think it would be sooo cool to have a worker-school that teaches them to solve math problems while we're at it. I also want them to fall in love with each other that would add so much depth to the game. | ||
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UmmTheHobo
United States650 Posts
On June 30 2008 09:11 Jibba wrote: Wow, Mothership is more awful than I had ever imagined. Yeah, mothership looks like a piece of shit. How would you ever get it to your enemies base unless you just happened to take your opponents nautral, lol. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On June 30 2008 09:15 UmmTheHobo wrote: Yeah, mothership looks like a piece of shit. How would you ever get it to your enemies base unless you just happened to take your opponents nautral, lol. Not only that, but the time bomb is just a defense mechanism for how much it sucks. My only worry after watching the demo is that the game is too defense oriented, but I guess that's not the case if avg games are lasting 20 minutes. Thanks ForAdun, you cheered up my crappy day.  | ||
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GunsofthePatriots
South Africa991 Posts
On June 30 2008 09:26 Jibba wrote: Not only that, but the time bomb is just a defense mechanism for how much it sucks. My only worry after watching the demo is that the game is too defense oriented, but I guess that's not the case if avg games are lasting 20 minutes. Thanks ForAdun, you cheered up my crappy day. Zerg looks A LOT more defense oriented. Mothership looks like pretty lame. AKA USELESS. Right now protoss is looking to be the most interesting with the exception of the mothership. | ||
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Pervect
1280 Posts
On June 30 2008 09:11 Jibba wrote: Wow, Mothership is more awful than I had ever imagined. Yeah... it just needs to go. It's never going to work. They tried it as a one unit powerhouse, wasn't Starcraft-esque and too overpowered with black hole. They try it as a multiple allowed, slow moving, spell casting unit and it becomes worthless. Among other things. The basic idea they had for the Mothership won't work in SC, it's plain and simple. | ||
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Chuiu
3470 Posts
50 gas was mined in ~45 seconds using 2 gas per scv. 400 gas was mined in ~1:40 using 8 gas per scv. To mine 400 gas with 6 gas per trip it would take 17 more trips (400 / 8 = 50, 400 / 6 = 66.6), which would take around ~40 more seconds. So in ~3:05 you can mine 400 gas (cooldown included). But if you don't spend minerals ... It takes ~6:00 to mine 400 gas if you only pull in 2 gas per trip. Overall if you really need gas then the thing to do is pay and wait for the investment to pay off. You do mine gas almost twice as fast as you normally would so this is very beneficial for depleted geysers. Please note the following: These numbers are all from mining from a single gas port. I used the in game clock to time these because if there were cooldowns they would be going off the in game clock as well and not off a real time clock. I used 3 scv's mining from a depleted gas source for the first set of numbers and from a gas source with 400 for the second set of numbers and I calculated how much time it would take for 17 trips by counting them and viewing the game clock. The times are not 100% accurate, they are +/- 1-2 seconds off and can vary depending on how the geyser is setup in relation to the command center. | ||
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fight_or_flight
United States3988 Posts
And to the people saying you will 'have' to do it all the time, that isn't true. If you use it you will run out of gas sooner, so it comes at a cost. Also, there are a lot of timing issues to, for example, if someone uses it and attacks you, if you hold them off, you can counter by starting your fast gas while being attacked. So its a lot more cognitive than just remembering to do something every two minutes. Even if it doesn't end up working out, its still a very interesting idea and I'm glad they are testing it. | ||
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TonyL2
England1953 Posts
Also, does anyone know if when a SCV builds something it stays in one place or does it still move around to opposite corners of the building like in SC1? | ||
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Konni
Germany3044 Posts
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Jayson X
Switzerland2431 Posts
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
On June 30 2008 10:20 fight_or_flight wrote: I have to say, the new gas mechanic is genius. It adds so much to timing and builds....basically, it multiplies the number of viable builds by at least two. And to the people saying you will 'have' to do it all the time, that isn't true. If you use it you will run out of gas sooner, so it comes at a cost. Also, there are a lot of timing issues to, for example, if someone uses it and attacks you, if you hold them off, you can counter by starting your fast gas while being attacked. So its a lot more cognitive than just remembering to do something every two minutes. Even if it doesn't end up working out, its still a very interesting idea and I'm glad they are testing it. I'm glad they are testing alternatives as well, but think about it, who doesn't want faster gas? You don't even need to take off additional workers to have this give you faster gas. This will affect early-game, and compound in mid-game and late-game. Getting 1 or 2 tanks out faster is something we can all use and the player who can consistently use this gas speed will always compound his lead over ones who do not. Further, what exactly do you lose by doing it? Saying you run out of gas faster isn't really a big deal as you won't exactly be losing any gas, you will just be using it faster. | ||
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=sc2-general&t=1393042#post1393042 It´s not a "press button, recieve gas" mechanic. You "trade" a exaustive resource for a "endless" one. | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19141 Posts
On June 29 2008 20:54 Plexa wrote: Although i'm reserving judgment on the issue for now, as one cannot tell how this mechanic will perform, i do wonder if this will be too useful for Protoss (as i am a protoss player) Currently, there's no matchup where i feel like i need an extra X gas, just having more bases with geysers does the trick; and only when im playing a fast arb build vs T or needing gas for the first templar and storm vs Z is where i'd be using this in SC1.. I dont know how gas heavy things will be in sc2, but if expanding become similar to Sc1 (which it probably will) i dont see how this will serve too much of a purpose other that rare instances throughout a game =/ on that note 2 minute cooldown is rather rediculous.. thats like 7 times in a 14 minute game =/ (obviously less in reality) You cannot compare SC2 to SCBW in anyway concerning the economic aspect. Especially cause geysers deplete rly fast in the current maps (1k gas each) and you need to take both geysers in your main (in the current build / maps @ wwi) to have about the gas you'd get from 1-1.5 normal geyser output in SCBW. That plus workers return just 5 mins but their pathing is ALOT better so it feels like more. All in all its impossible to compare and the gas mechanic, especially on the WWI low gas maps in certain matchups where its challenging to expo. To me personally with playing zerg for about 60 games it felt like a really nice mechanic as it allows you to deviate at alot of turns and the low gas in the geysers forces you to expand at a certain rate so it limits certain windows where you can try things and it puts a certain pace on the game. Generally I really enjoyed the mechanic. Theres alot of shit I dont like though which ill make a thread about later ^^. | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19141 Posts
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
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Zanno
United States1484 Posts
On July 01 2008 03:12 Unentschieden wrote: That's what they've changed it to since WWI, they're still experimenting but I think it'll rapidly become obvious the more worker mechanic is more interesting. They said somewhere else that they won't do both, they'll do one or the other.You still think in 30 sec double Peon Terms right? Here, thats how it really works: http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=sc2-general&t=1393042#post1393042 It´s not a "press button, recieve gas" mechanic. You "trade" a exaustive resource for a "endless" one. | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19141 Posts
I'm mostly knowlegable about zerg though as I played more then 75% of my 70-80 games I played with that race as I found it the most interesting race yet. | ||
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Krzycho
Poland442 Posts
Did u use a lot of spell casters as a zerg or did u just mass lots of units? | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On July 01 2008 03:19 Nyovne wrote: Motherships unit summon and the slow projectiles (time warp?) abilties are actually pretty damn ass good. The time bomb is only a way to protect the Mothership because it's so incredibly vulnerable. You could just make the Mothership not-ass and remove Time Bomb and it'd be just as good. | ||
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