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United States7166 Posts
EDIT: Dustin is apparently against this idea but some of the other devs wanted to try it out. Also, they go through a new build every week and as Mani said, if they don't like it they'll just remove it just like they have been for many many units already, which I'm guessing is what will happen. So, no need to freak out.
For those who don't know yet, the current build (about 1 week old) has now removed Medics, and instead added the Medivac Dropship. for more info check the spoiler
+ Show Spoiler [Original Post from Dustin Browder] +Dustin Browder Lead Designer - Starcraft II posted:
It's the "Medivac Dropship" and it's something we have been playing with for a week or so. If we keep the mechanic, the art will get a going-over.
Here is the thinking:
Question: Reapers are fun and powerful but they are rarely built. Why?
Possible Answer: Since Medics can't keep up with Reapers it's safer and more effective to build more Marines. But a FLYING Medic, now that's something that would be useful with both Marines and Reapers.
Issue: Medics aren't something an enemy player can effectively counter. If you have a bunch of Medics then you are just harder to kill.
Possible Solve: Make the healing unit into a larger vehicle that can be effectively targeted.
There are a ton of issues that might kill this idea. Your heal is now much later in the game, the Terrans are even more air mobile now, etc. So far this one has been somewhat successful in our playtests, but we will see where it ultimately goes. Think about what it will do to and for gameplay and post your thoughts.=)
Remember that what you are hearing about is a "snap shot" of our game. The build that a few folks have had the chance to play was made last Thursday and it has ALREADY changed in a number of key ways (Zerg Base Defenses are no longer 1x1 for instance).
So basically we would love to hear your thoughts, but try not to freak out too much if you see something that bothers you. Things change a lot around here.=) Source
Dustin Browder posted:
Question: Reapers are fun and powerful but they are rarely built. Why?
Possible Answer: Since Medics can't keep up with Reapers it's safer and more effective to build more Marines. But a FLYING Medic, now that's something that would be useful with both Marines and Reapers.
First of all, this reasoning makes no logical sense whatsoever. If you have to bring the Medivac Dropship to heal your Reapers, why not just unload Medics from the old dropships? And isn't one of the main ideas behind the Reaper is being able to jump into an opponent's base WITHOUT the need of having to dropship units? You might as well just use marines and medics in a dropship rather than reapers + Medivacs, right? I really don't like how they're going about trying to make the Reaper more used, they should work on improving the Reaper rather than removing the Medic, WTF. Besides, hit-and-run raiders shouldn't need Medics with them anyways.
Secondly, you have to have a Starport just to make your new "medics." They cost more as well, have a longer build time, but they are easier to kill? Just the thought of having to have your Dropships chase your Marines around to heal them makes no sense. If I have a dropship I'd much rather be *gasp* using them for Drops! And after I drop I don't want to feel forced to keep them with my dropped marines, I want to run them away and maybe use them for more drops.
And in large battles I need several dropships to heal my units. Costly as it is already, I'd actually need more of them than I'd need medics, since they die faster.
Also I believe dropships still retain that slowwwwww acceleration type movement (they take a while to reach full speed from a motionless state) which could mean they would serve as poor support units for an otherwise very mobile infantry army.
And we lose the 2nd most important role that Medics provide: protecting your units by serving as natural blocks from melee units. I think some do not realize how much they often help in this aspect. The fact that Medics don't attack, so units don't naturally target them makes them even better blocks, and this eliminates a portion of micro/positioning from the game, for both the terran and the player attacking them.
This all seems so very wrong. I really hope Blizzard scraps this idea and returns back to the Medics we all love.
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this game is just confusing the heck outta me 
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wow i dont like this idea. just make reaper stronger then (give them flamethrowers and higher hp).
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Have medics able to heal while in dropships for compromise victory.
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It seems that they are just complicating the game way too much in some aspects.
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Giving dropships heal is not complicating things at all, its making things simpler and with a different twist than before.
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I don't get it. Is the medivac going to be able to heal units close to it, like the medic, or will infantry have to load up to heal?
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United States7166 Posts
It really fucking amazes me how they can think to remove the MEDIC in order to solve the problem of players not wanting to get REAPERS. Their "solution" doesn't even fix that anyways.
@ B1nary: I'm assuming they can heal just by being near it.. but a confirmation would be nice.
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This is so fucking stupid. I'm so pissed off right now.
I'ma go break something.
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like i said in my post, the nomad is already a flying healer (for mech units) why would we need another for infantry?
I'll take my medic and her spells thanks!
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Sweden33719 Posts
Hate it with a passion.
In fact, I hate anything that replaces the medic and always will 
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they could just give medics a jetpack (maybe as upgrade, maybe standard)as well?
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United States7166 Posts
Isn't this the second time they tried to remove Medics from the game? (@ initial SC2 announcement I believe they opted to not include medics)
What is their problem with the Medic? I thought everyone loved those chicks. WTF BLIZZ ...just wtf!!!!!
@ talismania:
yes they could, but I think the better solution is just to improve Reapers, or give them some new researchable Upgrade/Ability to improve them late-game if they become useless then.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On March 12 2008 08:06 talismania wrote:
they could just give medics a jetpack (maybe as upgrade, maybe standard)as well?
This idea is a hundred times better  And it really doesn't affect, significantly, the medics relationship with any other unit.
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On March 12 2008 08:09 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2008 08:06 talismania wrote:
they could just give medics a jetpack (maybe as upgrade, maybe standard)as well? This idea is a hundred times better And it really doesn't affect, significantly, the medics relationship with any other unit.
That would be fun to play with.
Jump into a zerg's base and optical flare all their overlords, err, whatever the ones that have detectors are called now.
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Sydney2287 Posts
Dustin Browder Lead Designer - Starcraft II posted:
Question: Reapers are fun and powerful but they are rarely built. Why?
blah blah
And for the solution they come up with?
Dustin Browder Lead Designer - Starcraft II posted:
... a FLYING Medic...
what?
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nah, they just need to understand the reaper's role and leave the medic alone.
The medic is a support unit, designed to block melee, cast support spells/defensive buffs (like restore) and heal.
The reaper is a base raider, a flanker. I am pretty sure its having trouble fitting both of those roles though, the base raiding part , partly because its mine ability is flawed because it cant do too much base damage else it would be OPed, yet its normal weapon cannot inflict enough damage to buildings or peons or whatever. Then the Terran race as a whole is designed to work better together as a ball of doom instead of flanking.
A good fix would be to make his mine a spider mine, instead of a bomb. Then he can use his jetpack to maneuver around the flank to plant mines and harass expos, (ala a vulture would do nowadays)
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On March 12 2008 08:05 FrozenArbiter wrote:Hate it with a passion. In fact, I hate anything that replaces the medic and always will
What about a nurse? 
On March 12 2008 08:15 Tiamat wrote:
nah, they just need to understand the reaper's role and leave the medic alone.
Yea, I agree. Thats the whole point of a reaper. They trade versatility for not being able to heal. They would have to make reapers a lot weaker if they could regenerate.
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This makes me want to play less of SC2 now..wow..
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Hmmm... he mentions he wants to make it a larger flying unit in order to make it an easier target? Well let's examine this in a few matchups:
TvT: Marines aren't really used currently and I don't see that changing too much in SC2 given the unit mix thus far. Banshees and tanks both look to eat Marines alive. Making the the medic a flying unit could make it survive longer than a normal medic though considering both banshees and tanks are ground attack only. No Charon upgraded Goliaths either to snipe it even if the medivac was used and a threat.
TvP: Again, Marines aren't really used past really early game so by the time you can get this medivac out the P will have Colossi and/or HTs. Flying medivac makes no difference. I suppose it lets you keep your medivacs after your marines get raped by Colossi.
TvZ: Ah, the only matchup where this may change anything. Dustin wants to make the medivac MORE vulnerable yet he makes it FLYING? There are no more Scourge flying around to snipe these things and I doubt you want to dive into the Terran marine ball with mutas, corrupters, or *shudder* hydras to snipe it.
I can't see much justification for doing this and it seems to make the medivac more difficult to kill overall than the medic which is the opposite of what he intended.
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I love the jetpack idea ^^
I dont understand how they could do somthing like this, though. They coudl have thought of so much better things; the OP's post of putting medics in a dropship is so simple, yet it provides almost th eexact same thing.
Horrible idea. Hopefully they'll change htem back.
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What a fucking dumb idea.
Do people not use Vultures because they can't heal?
To be perfectly honest, Browder is full of shit.
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I like how the Queen has essentially made Reapers useless against Zerg. Seems like the Reaper is just a gimmick unit that was made to counter Immortal shields for that first demo or something.
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i dont like the idea of flying medics.
what about medic walls infront of the marines?
cant you just counter medics with, storms, lurkers, collosous, cannons, sunkens, and area effect/splash damage?
possible jetpack and speed upgrades in the acadamy would be alot more acceptable.
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Yea, I don't think this idea is going to fly (pardon the pun).
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On March 12 2008 08:47 Malambis wrote:
I like how the Queen has essentially made Reapers useless against Zerg. Seems like the Reaper is just a gimmick unit that was made to counter Immortal shields for that first demo or something.
Even now in SC1 there are units that are not used in EVERY matchup.
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Osaka27154 Posts
You all realize that they have designed, tested, and thrown away 5x the units that will actually appear in the game right? Fucking relax, it is an idea, and it will either fit well into the final product or not.
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I think the best way to make reapers more attractive would be to lift limits on hiring them.
Instant army, whatever size you like, from one production building, as long as you've got the minerals and supply.
But it has to be all reapers.
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On March 12 2008 09:05 Manifesto7 wrote:
You all realize that they have designed, tested, and thrown away 5x the units that will actually appear in the game right? Fucking relax, it is an idea, and it will either fit well into the final product or not.
we're just trying to help them see how badly this will fit in (and yeah, I think this flying medic idea is retarded)
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Problem:
Medic can't keep up with reapers because they jump over things:
Solution:
Medic + Jetpack
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so stupid, this reminds me exactly of WoW when I played it. something not used? NP nerf the shit out of something else or remove it completely.
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On March 12 2008 09:08 Funchucks wrote:
I think the best way to make reapers more attractive would be to lift limits on hiring them.
Instant army, whatever size you like, from one production building, as long as you've got the minerals and supply.
But it has to be all reapers.
Maybe make a minimum size of like 5 reapers, but they would produce near instantly (a merc would never work alone).
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I'm not really a fan of medics. Marines were fun in the original Starcraft as these expendable units that just died in swarms (unless they were in bunkers)
Anyway, these are power-armor marines. When they get damaged in battle, they don't need medics, they need repairmen. I never saw a reason that SCVs shouldn't repair marines.
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I think scv's used to be able to repair marines, but they removed it with a patch.
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On March 12 2008 08:14 Bockit wrote:Show nested quote +Dustin Browder Lead Designer - Starcraft II posted:
Question: Reapers are fun and powerful but they are rarely built. Why?
blah blah And for the solution they come up with? what?
QFT
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United States7166 Posts
Mani always bringing me back to reality. He's right Blizzard can and will handle it.
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On March 12 2008 09:12 Meta wrote:
Problem:
Medic can't keep up with reapers because they jump over things:
Solution:
Medic + Jetpack
Sounds good to me.
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On March 12 2008 09:19 fight_or_flight wrote:
I think scv's used to be able to repair marines, but they removed it with a patch.
It would be neat if terran units had 2 kinds of hit-points: mech (for the vehicle/suit) and bio (for the pilot/wearer). If either ran out, they would die.
There could be some zerg virus/poison attacks that hit the bio directly, or psionic attacks for the same thing, and stims could deplete the bio hp rather than mech.
(not going to happen obv., just random musing)
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On March 12 2008 09:34 Funchucks wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2008 09:19 fight_or_flight wrote:
I think scv's used to be able to repair marines, but they removed it with a patch. It would be neat if terran units had 2 kinds of hit-points: mech (for the vehicle/suit) and bio (for the pilot/wearer). If either ran out, they would die. There could be some zerg virus/poison attacks that hit the bio directly, or psionic attacks for the same thing, and stims could deplete the bio hp rather than mech. (not going to happen obv., just random musing)
Thats a pretty interesting idea. It would be completely different from protoss because toss need to lose both shields and armor (and lose shields first) whereas a marine would need to lose either, and independently. That would make for some crazy strategies and micro.
It would also make medics useless in some circumstances. That could be Dustin's counter to medics, units that do mechanical damage. Possibly units like zerglings would do 50% mechanical and 50% bio, or something like that.
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On March 12 2008 07:42 Zelniq wrote:
Secondly, you have to have a Starport just to make your new "medics." They cost more as well, have a longer build time, but they are easier to kill? Just the thought of having to have your Dropships chase your Marines around to heal them makes no sense. If I have a dropship I'd much rather be *gasp* using them for Drops! And after I drop I don't want to feel forced to keep them with my dropped marines, I want to run them away and maybe use them for more drops.
And in large battles I need several dropships to heal my units. Costly as it is already, I'd actually need more of them than I'd need medics, since they die faster.
Omg...I laughed so hard.
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On March 12 2008 10:26 fight_or_flight wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2008 09:34 Funchucks wrote:On March 12 2008 09:19 fight_or_flight wrote:
I think scv's used to be able to repair marines, but they removed it with a patch. It would be neat if terran units had 2 kinds of hit-points: mech (for the vehicle/suit) and bio (for the pilot/wearer). If either ran out, they would die. There could be some zerg virus/poison attacks that hit the bio directly, or psionic attacks for the same thing, and stims could deplete the bio hp rather than mech. (not going to happen obv., just random musing) Thats a pretty interesting idea. It would be completely different from protoss because toss need to lose both shields and armor (and lose shields first) whereas a marine would need to lose either, and independently. That would make for some crazy strategies and micro. It would also make medics useless in some circumstances. That could be Dustin's counter to medics, units that do mechanical damage. Possibly units like zerglings would do 50% mechanical and 50% bio, or something like that.
I was pretty much imagining that normal attacks would only do mech damage, and bio wouldn't be wounds so much as exhaustion/sickness.
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Hmm I don't think I'd mind if protoss were the only cliffjumpers early game. A protoss perk...
But anyway, how neat would it be if the reapers were able to lift medics with them as they jump? ^^
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On March 12 2008 09:12 Meta wrote:
Problem:
Medic can't keep up with reapers because they jump over things:
Solution:
Medic + Jetpack
Oh god...no...Again now we will have "Solution: JET PACK (or continuous laser, pew pew) as our answers for everything again, huh?
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I fail to see how this is a new issue that needed solving. In Brood War, medics don't have stim, so they cannot keep up with stimmed marines and bats. They didn't say, "Oh let's gay it up and make some overly complex unit that everyone will fucking hate." Instead it became a tradeoff - you can stim and have your marines run ahead of the medics to get to a location faster (and not heal), or you could wait and have the medics arrive with the marines, but it would take longer.
I seriously want to shoot everyone on the development team.
It's really starting to seem like the newbs at Blizzard can't beat a decent terran in Brood War, so they're making them shitty and weak in SC2.
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I don't see what's wrong with this. it's an idea. it's different from using dropships. why not give it a try?
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Being Protoss, I hate MM being used >;(, but even I think this is a bad idea. Obviously, I havent seen the reapers first hand, but they consistantly sound like the most powerful base raider ever with their charge. Sounds like a hell of a way to take out the worker line, but I trust Blizzard will put out the best product possible.
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Hmm… I'm thinking they should make all balance testers play at least 1 hour on iCCup every day until they learn.
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On March 12 2008 10:39 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2008 09:12 Meta wrote:
Problem:
Medic can't keep up with reapers because they jump over things:
Solution:
Medic + Jetpack Oh god...no...Again now we will have "Solution: JET PACK (or continuous laser, pew pew) as our answers for everything again, huh?
Actually I'm pretty sure medics are going to get a laser that heals, so they can heal while flying (they can't get close enough to the reapers in the air).
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It's really starting to seem like the newbs at Blizzard can't beat a decent terran in Brood War, so they're making them shitty and weak in SC2.
I'm getting similar feeling.
The Terrans in SC2 are extremely poor designed and boring as fuck... To me, it seems they revome the cool stuff from BW and give almost nothing in return. It's driving me crazy when Protoss receive things like anti-grav, null-void, etc...Zerg their infestation abilities and stuff and Terrans? Some idiotic turret which shoot, idiotic turret which lays mines, idiotic flare which reveal target area...and another idiotic boring unit with splash damage, which is later removed for balance reasons (banshee for ex.).
Really, in my worst dreams I couldn't imagine that Terrans would look sooo boring and uncool as thery are. They look boring compare to Toss and Zerg and even to BW Terrans to some degree...
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On March 12 2008 11:19 adelarge wrote:
Really, in my worst dreams I couldn't imagine that Terrans would look sooo boring and uncool as thery are. They look boring compare to Toss and Zerg and even to BW Terrans to some degree...
Yea, science vessels were really cool.
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Why not just give medics an upgradeable healing range, so reapers can always be far ahead and medics far behind but healing them?
However the farther they are, the healing speed is slower, closer the faster.
This would make some interesting game scenarios, I think.
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Yeah i agree they're boring. The only excitement i've got from the terrans is the supply depots and reapers................ yep that's it. Actually Vikings are decent too.
And this is compared to:
Colossus: awesome
Stalker: omg awesome
Immortal: hmm shield thing saves it so it's not ENTIRELY boring
antigrav: awesome
forcefield: awesome
nullify: awesome
infester abilities: awesome
new queen: awesome
banelings: awesome
When u look at a comparison like that... terran are getting kinda ripped off...
But still I trust blizzard. They won't release it without all races being really fun to play and having unanimous approval from the majority of the community. I don't think the dropship healer will stay in. If so many of us find it silly, they're bound to find it silly too. And they won't keep silly things in the game (they say). So we'll see.
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>< perhaps we should wait for the report from LR and SoG before making any assumptions...
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Well thats just dumb. Reapers arent supposed to be units that are built for their firepower. They are build for their mobility. A sacrifice for mobility is that you have to leave your medics behind.
It makes perfect sense.
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On March 12 2008 11:48 prOxi.swAMi wrote:Yeah i agree they're boring. The only excitement i've got from the terrans is the supply depots and reapers................ yep that's it. Actually Vikings are decent too. And this is compared to: Colossus: awesome Stalker: omg awesome Immortal: hmm shield thing saves it so it's not ENTIRELY boring antigrav: awesome forcefield: awesome nullify: awesome infester abilities: awesome new queen: awesome banelings: awesome When u look at a comparison like that... terran are getting kinda ripped off... But still I trust blizzard. They won't release it without all races being really fun to play and having unanimous approval from the majority of the community. I don't think the dropship healer will stay in. If so many of us find it silly, they're bound to find it silly too. And they won't keep silly things in the game (they say). So we'll see.
I dunno.
Colossus looks cool visually, but doesn't look half as fun as a proper Reaver.
Immortal... yeah it is kinda boring.
Nullify = cop out spell.
Ghost snipe: awesome - kills workers with one hit from a distance, no "under attack" message
Ghost w/ EMP: awesome - counters most things you listed for Protoss
Nomad turrets: awesome - build them behind minerals.
Jackal flame: awesome - two in any worker line = death
Reapers very mobile out of brrx: awesome
Terran about to get flying medics: awesome
And Terrans are the ultimate worker killers now. Every other unit is very very good at taking out workers. All the things I named above are very good for that in one way or another.
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On March 12 2008 08:06 talismania wrote:
they could just give medics a jetpack (maybe as upgrade, maybe standard)as well?
send an e-mail to Dustin NOW!
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Fuck. I made the mistake of going to the battle.net forums for this, and the majority of the idiots over there actually encourage this medic dropship idea. There's only ONE guy who's smart enough to provide points as to why it's a bad idea in the first place, and suggests alternatives like making the reapers more useful (like giving them Flare to reveal areas above cliffs/over mountains/forests) instead of "oh hey let's just make a medic dropship lolol so they will b able to fllow teh reapers and healz.
hungryjack, are you from TL.net ? I applaud you for encouraging some thoughtful thinking at battle.net
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Y'know thought about it a little more, how does a trainable ability for reapers to lift other infantry units along with them sound? Could make for some pretty fun sneak drops, lifting in a whole group of MM with just a few reapers, and this would fix the issue with the medics.
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yeah I went to bnet too and it turns out the "give medics a jetpack" idea is apparent to a lot of people, even there. so... blizz is probably aware of it? I think this will end up being one of those ideas, like mani said, that ends up going by the wayside.
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ummm
reapers are harassment units.
you dont send scvs with vulture harass -.-
They are either too expensive, too weak, or too slow
Plus you can always hop them over for healing...
honestly, the point of reapers is harassment. Get in, kill drones, get out.
You arent supposed to be taking on lings head on
stupid
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Meh, I assume Blizzard is just trying out something a little crazy to see how it works and they'll scrap it if it sucks. Not sure how they arrived at thinking that's a good idea but while I think it's a bad idea I should at least give them props for being:
a) Willing to share this much with us as a community at such an obviously early stage of development.
b) Willing to try such a crazy idea just to see if it works and then further be willing to scrap it like nothing if it doesn't work out. I can imagine many lazier game developers wouldn't be doing half as much of this iterative "trial and error" development to get units just right.
Just looking at the bright side of things you know. Props to Blizzard for this much.
Still don't like the flying medivac though.
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I would whine and complain, but let's face it: SC2 is really unimpressive. The creativity of the current development is completely sub-par to that of the original design team, and I'm beginning to question their ability to effectively create a game that doesn't just cater to the 12 year-old players that simply want cool, shiny special effects and stupid cheese strategies.
It's bad enough they don't understand that lasers don't naturally curve, as light travels in a straight line unless bent, and it's bad enough that had fucking units on surfboards shooting green goo, but now this? Seriously, what the hell did you smoke, Blizzard?
If Terran gets this crap, I want a fucking floating shield battery that regenerates 10 energy a second that I can float around with my army.
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why don't they just take the zergling wings out.... and place it on the medics! =) FUBAR!!!
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United States20661 Posts
SC2 is a good game. I like it. It exceeded my expectations when I played today.
That being said, Terran has a helluva hard time vs Zerg now.
1) Infester has Dark Swarm. Infester also infests buildings. It also moves while burrowed. Furthermore, it is LAIR TECH.
2) Zergling speed upgrade also gives 1 atk and 1 carapace. It still costs 100/100 and has comparable research time as the original speed upg.
3) Roaches are invincible, really. Roach rush is incredibly powerful since no race has a solid counter to your initial 6 roach/12 ling timing attack. Unless they make that themselves. 6 roach/12ling can break 8 'sunkens', to give you an idea.
I will make a more extensive post later.
I just realized none of the stuff I just typed is about the dship.
OK, so I didn't know the dship healed until I played today and was like 'hey why is the dship emitting little yellow sparks?' and then clicked on it and it said 'MEDIVAC'. Heh.
I don't like it tbh. Browder didn't like it much either, but a lot of the dev team did like the idea, so they're going to try it.
They make a new build of the game every week, though, so it's not definitely in or out.
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On March 12 2008 13:07 rpf wrote:
I would whine and complain, but let's face it: SC2 is really unimpressive. The creativity of the current development is completely sub-par to that of the original design team, and I'm beginning to question their ability to effectively create a game that doesn't just cater to the 12 year-old players that simply want cool, shiny special effects and stupid cheese strategies.
It's bad enough they don't understand that lasers don't naturally curve, as light travels in a straight line unless bent, and it's bad enough that had fucking units on surfboards shooting green goo, but now this? Seriously, what the hell did you smoke, Blizzard?
If Terran gets this crap, I want a fucking floating shield battery that regenerates 10 energy a second that I can float around with my army.
Well, you ARE whining and complaining right now, and a lot of your complaints are pretty bad. How does this topic show that the dev team is not creative ? If anything, it shows they are even more creative, thinking up a possible Medivac dropship instead of fixing the weak bio unit with jetpack problem by just plopping another jetpack on a support unit.
The effects have obviously been toned down since the early development, which nullifies that point, and your other point is totally just out of the blue.
Now you're just nitpicking. Lasers don't naturally curve. So? Organic units don't naturally go into space nekkid. They even took out the surfing protoss. They're not stupid.
What the heck does this suggestion have to do with ANYTHING? You don't even know how it works!
at your whining and complaining.
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On March 12 2008 13:07 rpf wrote:
It's bad enough they don't understand that lasers don't naturally curve, as light travels in a straight line unless bent, and it's bad enough that had fucking units on surfboards shooting green goo, but now this? Seriously, what the hell did you smoke, Blizzard?
Yeah, those damn, superevolved, highly technological, telepathic, psionic dudes should really know better than to go against proven 21st century Terran science!
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Arent reapers supposed to be hit and run so why would they need a fuckn medic with them?
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On March 12 2008 13:13 Last Romantic wrote:
SC2 is a good game. I like it. It exceeded my expectations when I played today.
That being said, Terran has a helluva hard time vs Zerg now.
1) Infester has Dark Swarm. Infester also infests buildings. It also moves while burrowed. Furthermore, it is LAIR TECH.
2) Zergling speed upgrade also gives 1 atk and 1 carapace. It still costs 100/100 and has comparable research time as the original speed upg.
3) Roaches are invincible, really. Roach rush is incredibly powerful since no race has a solid counter to your initial 6 roach/12 ling timing attack. Unless they make that themselves. 6 roach/12ling can break 8 'sunkens', to give you an idea.
I will make a more extensive post later.
I just realized none of the stuff I just typed is about the dship.
OK, so I didn't know the dship healed until I played today and was like 'hey why is the dship emitting little yellow sparks?' and then clicked on it and it said 'MEDIVAC'. Heh.
I don't like it tbh. Browder didn't like it much either, but a lot of the dev team did like the idea, so they're going to try it.
They make a new build of the game every week, though, so it's not definitely in or out.
please write more!@
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He's making a big post now :O
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Quite possibly the worst idea since the soul hunter.
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On March 12 2008 13:13 Last Romantic wrote:
SC2 is a good game. I like it. It exceeded my expectations when I played today.
That being said, Terran has a helluva hard time vs Zerg now.
1) Infester has Dark Swarm. Infester also infests buildings. It also moves while burrowed. Furthermore, it is LAIR TECH.
2) Zergling speed upgrade also gives 1 atk and 1 carapace. It still costs 100/100 and has comparable research time as the original speed upg.
3) Roaches are invincible, really. Roach rush is incredibly powerful since no race has a solid counter to your initial 6 roach/12 ling timing attack. Unless they make that themselves. 6 roach/12ling can break 8 'sunkens', to give you an idea.
I will make a more extensive post later.
I just realized none of the stuff I just typed is about the dship.
OK, so I didn't know the dship healed until I played today and was like 'hey why is the dship emitting little yellow sparks?' and then clicked on it and it said 'MEDIVAC'. Heh.
I don't like it tbh. Browder didn't like it much either, but a lot of the dev team did like the idea, so they're going to try it.
They make a new build of the game every week, though, so it's not definitely in or out.
omfg, you two are going to be one of the best things ever to happen to TLnet... we got insiders!!!!!!!!!!
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On March 12 2008 13:15 d.arkive wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2008 13:07 rpf wrote:
I would whine and complain, but let's face it: SC2 is really unimpressive. The creativity of the current development is completely sub-par to that of the original design team, and I'm beginning to question their ability to effectively create a game that doesn't just cater to the 12 year-old players that simply want cool, shiny special effects and stupid cheese strategies.
It's bad enough they don't understand that lasers don't naturally curve, as light travels in a straight line unless bent, and it's bad enough that had fucking units on surfboards shooting green goo, but now this? Seriously, what the hell did you smoke, Blizzard?
If Terran gets this crap, I want a fucking floating shield battery that regenerates 10 energy a second that I can float around with my army. Well, you ARE whining and complaining right now, and a lot of your complaints are pretty bad. How does this topic show that the dev team is not creative ? If anything, it shows they are even more creative, thinking up a possible Medivac dropship instead of fixing the weak bio unit with jetpack problem by just plopping another jetpack on a support unit. The effects have obviously been toned down since the early development, which nullifies that point, and your other point is totally just out of the blue. Now you're just nitpicking. Lasers don't naturally curve. So? Organic units don't naturally go into space nekkid. They even took out the surfing protoss. They're not stupid. What the heck does this suggestion have to do with ANYTHING? You don't even know how it works! at your whining and complaining.
Oh no, not a sadface. Whatever shall I do?
The logic they use to support the addition of such a unit makes no sense to me. So what if you can't use medics in tandem with reapers efficiently? Last time I checked, reapers are not exactly the bread and butter of your army. They jump cliffs to get to weak areas of their opponent.
The point is that each unit has a role. Medics are a support unit. Would it be nice to be able to heal reapers while harassing? Sure; but if you're going to make it a flying unit, it seems to defeat the purpose of teching to a harassment unit when you could just go build a dropship and drop medics in with marines. I was under the impression that raiding units were there to bypass the necessity of ferrying units.
On March 12 2008 13:23 Zanric wrote:
Arent reapers supposed to be hit and run so why would they need a fuckn medic with them?
Exactly.
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On March 12 2008 13:25 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2008 13:13 Last Romantic wrote:
SC2 is a good game. I like it. It exceeded my expectations when I played today.
That being said, Terran has a helluva hard time vs Zerg now.
1) Infester has Dark Swarm. Infester also infests buildings. It also moves while burrowed. Furthermore, it is LAIR TECH.
2) Zergling speed upgrade also gives 1 atk and 1 carapace. It still costs 100/100 and has comparable research time as the original speed upg.
3) Roaches are invincible, really. Roach rush is incredibly powerful since no race has a solid counter to your initial 6 roach/12 ling timing attack. Unless they make that themselves. 6 roach/12ling can break 8 'sunkens', to give you an idea.
I will make a more extensive post later.
I just realized none of the stuff I just typed is about the dship.
OK, so I didn't know the dship healed until I played today and was like 'hey why is the dship emitting little yellow sparks?' and then clicked on it and it said 'MEDIVAC'. Heh.
I don't like it tbh. Browder didn't like it much either, but a lot of the dev team did like the idea, so they're going to try it.
They make a new build of the game every week, though, so it's not definitely in or out. please write more!@
Random question:
Irradiate still in the game?
If it is, i can imagine all the decimation it can achieve, I hope its an earlier tech now that zerg has those qualities early in the game.
I suppose mines could kill roaches.
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On March 12 2008 13:30 rpf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2008 13:15 d.arkive wrote:On March 12 2008 13:07 rpf wrote:
I would whine and complain, but let's face it: SC2 is really unimpressive. The creativity of the current development is completely sub-par to that of the original design team, and I'm beginning to question their ability to effectively create a game that doesn't just cater to the 12 year-old players that simply want cool, shiny special effects and stupid cheese strategies.
It's bad enough they don't understand that lasers don't naturally curve, as light travels in a straight line unless bent, and it's bad enough that had fucking units on surfboards shooting green goo, but now this? Seriously, what the hell did you smoke, Blizzard?
If Terran gets this crap, I want a fucking floating shield battery that regenerates 10 energy a second that I can float around with my army. Well, you ARE whining and complaining right now, and a lot of your complaints are pretty bad. How does this topic show that the dev team is not creative ? If anything, it shows they are even more creative, thinking up a possible Medivac dropship instead of fixing the weak bio unit with jetpack problem by just plopping another jetpack on a support unit. The effects have obviously been toned down since the early development, which nullifies that point, and your other point is totally just out of the blue. Now you're just nitpicking. Lasers don't naturally curve. So? Organic units don't naturally go into space nekkid. They even took out the surfing protoss. They're not stupid. What the heck does this suggestion have to do with ANYTHING? You don't even know how it works! at your whining and complaining. Oh no, not a sadface. Whatever shall I do? The logic they use to support the addition of such a unit makes no sense to me. So what if you can't use medics in tandem with reapers efficiently? Last time I checked, reapers are not exactly the bread and butter of your army. They jump cliffs to get to weak areas of their opponent. The point is that each unit has a role. Medics are a support unit. Would it be nice to be able to heal reapers while harassing? Sure; but if you're going to make it a flying unit, it seems to defeat the purpose of teching to a harassment unit when you could just go build a dropship and drop medics in with marines. I was under the impression that raiding units were there to bypass the necessity of ferrying units.
Currently they are testing out different units and builds that might rectify the problem of the reaper being unused. This is one of them. A subpar idea it may be, but as LR said, even they know its shortcomings, and if it happens not to work out, they will surely just move on to the next idea in the hope it works.
Does this tidbit of a transient moment in Starcraft 2 merit a whiny, generalizing post about the competence of the makers? I think not.
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On March 12 2008 13:31 ._. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2008 13:25 fusionsdf wrote:On March 12 2008 13:13 Last Romantic wrote:
SC2 is a good game. I like it. It exceeded my expectations when I played today.
That being said, Terran has a helluva hard time vs Zerg now.
1) Infester has Dark Swarm. Infester also infests buildings. It also moves while burrowed. Furthermore, it is LAIR TECH.
2) Zergling speed upgrade also gives 1 atk and 1 carapace. It still costs 100/100 and has comparable research time as the original speed upg.
3) Roaches are invincible, really. Roach rush is incredibly powerful since no race has a solid counter to your initial 6 roach/12 ling timing attack. Unless they make that themselves. 6 roach/12ling can break 8 'sunkens', to give you an idea.
I will make a more extensive post later.
I just realized none of the stuff I just typed is about the dship.
OK, so I didn't know the dship healed until I played today and was like 'hey why is the dship emitting little yellow sparks?' and then clicked on it and it said 'MEDIVAC'. Heh.
I don't like it tbh. Browder didn't like it much either, but a lot of the dev team did like the idea, so they're going to try it.
They make a new build of the game every week, though, so it's not definitely in or out. please write more!@ Random question: Irradiate still in the game? If it is, i can imagine all the decimation it can achieve, I hope its an earlier tech now that zerg has those qualities early in the game. I suppose mines could kill roaches.
Irradiate got removed
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lol a healing dropship.... Where do they come up with this shit? XD
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I never liked Dustin Bowder. Bring back the old SC crew!!
@ above: Learn to Vietnam war.
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On March 12 2008 13:37 d.arkive wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2008 13:31 ._. wrote:On March 12 2008 13:25 fusionsdf wrote:On March 12 2008 13:13 Last Romantic wrote:
SC2 is a good game. I like it. It exceeded my expectations when I played today.
That being said, Terran has a helluva hard time vs Zerg now.
1) Infester has Dark Swarm. Infester also infests buildings. It also moves while burrowed. Furthermore, it is LAIR TECH.
2) Zergling speed upgrade also gives 1 atk and 1 carapace. It still costs 100/100 and has comparable research time as the original speed upg.
3) Roaches are invincible, really. Roach rush is incredibly powerful since no race has a solid counter to your initial 6 roach/12 ling timing attack. Unless they make that themselves. 6 roach/12ling can break 8 'sunkens', to give you an idea.
I will make a more extensive post later.
I just realized none of the stuff I just typed is about the dship.
OK, so I didn't know the dship healed until I played today and was like 'hey why is the dship emitting little yellow sparks?' and then clicked on it and it said 'MEDIVAC'. Heh.
I don't like it tbh. Browder didn't like it much either, but a lot of the dev team did like the idea, so they're going to try it.
They make a new build of the game every week, though, so it's not definitely in or out. please write more!@ Random question: Irradiate still in the game? If it is, i can imagine all the decimation it can achieve, I hope its an earlier tech now that zerg has those qualities early in the game. I suppose mines could kill roaches. Irradiate got removed
Have they ever seen any TvZ games?
How do they plan on countering defliers, holding units at bay, and else, how would it be removed from the lore?
Irradiate was "the" spell for TvZ, they're gonna have to rebuild it from the ground up to contemplate terran's only versatile offensive spell.
I hope its something clever and mind blowing, its disheartening to know already the sci vessel is gone, probably one of the most unique units I have seen in a sci-fi game.
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On March 12 2008 13:31 ._. wrote:
Random question:
Irradiate still in the game?
If it is, i can imagine all the decimation it can achieve, I hope its an earlier tech now that zerg has those qualities early in the game.
I suppose mines could kill roaches.
No Irradiate for Terrans. From the description of the "Disease" on GG.net it sounds a lot like Irradiate moved to Zerg though.
If Spider mines were still in the game then that might work. Reaper mines seem like they would be hard to hit with.
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On March 12 2008 13:55 Phyre wrote:
If Spider mines were still in the game then that might work. Reaper mines seem like they would be hard to hit with.
Last I checked the Nomad could create some kind of immobile mine laying device, and once the mines explode, the device would replenish the mines in the area.
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United States20661 Posts
Disease is actually more like plague/irrad combination. It damages a unit up to 90% of it's hp and is communicable.
Imagine TvZ with no irradiate, no medics, slightly stronger marines, slightly stronger lings, slightly stupider mutalisks, slightly later lurkers, and lair-tech defilers [without consume]
.. and roaches.
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Gosh darnit I can't wait to play this game myself T.T So many questions, so few answers, SO much speculation, it's killing me
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51497 Posts
This is the reapers problem more than the game balancing problem.
Just leave the medics as they are.
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On March 12 2008 13:52 FragKrag wrote:
I never liked Dustin Bowder. Bring back the old SC crew!!
@ above: Learn to Vietnam war.
Yea, obviously everything is browders faulth:
On March 12 2008 13:13 Last Romantic wrote:
I don't like it tbh. Browder didn't like it much either, but a lot of the dev team did like the idea, so they're going to try it.
Right?
Browder is the messenger and a part of the dev team, he is not the almighty god of sc2 development.
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If you wan't to be creative, you need to be prepared to be wrong
That's why they do what they do. It totaly kills my hype level for terran, because i personaly don't like any of the new mech units anyway but it doesn't hurt to try.
That's why i don't like some of the threads here. I don't wan't to know these things. But i can't stop looking.
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On March 12 2008 14:23 GTR-2-Go wrote:
This is the reapers problem more than the game balancing problem.
Just leave the medics as they are.
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Thats one of the most stupid ideas I've heard.
Looks like Browder is aware of how bad it actually is. But I don't blame them for atleast trying it. I can't imagine that it will make it into the final build. If it does, well, wooopiwoooh.
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Well, if for one thing, it won't make it to the final build due to massive community (negative) feedback. So keep up the (modest) bashing, please. I don't like the idea either, I want 'em cute chicas back.
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On March 12 2008 09:05 Manifesto7 wrote:
You all realize that they have designed, tested, and thrown away 5x the units that will actually appear in the game right? Fucking relax, it is an idea, and it will either fit well into the final product or not.
You are right, but they threw them away because the community stood up and told their opinion about trash units.
If we don't do anything they will probably stick with it because they think we like it. GO TO HELL FLYING MEDIC SHIP!
I want my medic!!!!!
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I think this is an interesting idea to at least try and I wish people would stop whining and flipping out over every little change (and yes, this is a small change in the grand scheme of things). If you're determined to hate the medic ship no matter what you're probably going to hate SC2 so just forget SC2 ever existed and stick to SC1. The rest of us that have an ounce of creativity and open-mindedness in our body can wait and see.
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On March 12 2008 21:02 gravity wrote:
I think this is an interesting idea to at least try and I wish people would stop whining and flipping out over ever little change (and yes, this is a small change in the grand scheme of things). If you're determined to hate the medic ship not matter what you're probably going to hate SC2 so just forget SC2 ever existed and stick to SC1. The rest of us that have an ounce of creativity and open-mindedness in our body can wait and see.
I'm sorry but its not a small change at all. The medic was a unit that really affected the game in many points of view. Yes, its abilities are not used tooo often, but there are many examples of games where it were used and saved the game!
The most famous game was the on BoxeR used his Medics to blind 6-7? Carriers.
Restoration is not often used but when it was used it could save your vessels or battlecruisers. You could block your ramp with 3 medics or 6 and the Zerg was forced to run even with dark swarm or he needed to focus the medics.
Now, its a freaking flying ship with healing skills that cannot block, cannot do anything? It just takes away a part of the Starcraft soul we all love so much.
I don't want to be bitchy because I personally think the Sc2 Team is doing a great job testing, sharing their ideas and _LISTEN_ to the community, but you have to show your support or make suggestions to improve the game and my suggestions is that they should leave the medic, because Reapers don't need medics with them.
They are already strong and can skirmish and vanish very fast. If you want to make them stronger, give them a little more HP.
Please stay with the classic medic @ Blizzard
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maybe medics could piggyback reapers or something
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On March 12 2008 07:42 Zelniq wrote:
bla blabla bla... it's something we have been playing with for a week or so. bla
Says all.
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Blah, they should adapt these:
The tradeoff concept (example: run fast or heal, stim: more damage and hp loss, etc)
The terran ball of doom concept
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On March 12 2008 21:08 G.s)NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2008 21:02 gravity wrote:
I think this is an interesting idea to at least try and I wish people would stop whining and flipping out over ever little change (and yes, this is a small change in the grand scheme of things). If you're determined to hate the medic ship not matter what you're probably going to hate SC2 so just forget SC2 ever existed and stick to SC1. The rest of us that have an ounce of creativity and open-mindedness in our body can wait and see. I'm sorry but its not a small change at all. The medic was a unit that really affected the game in many points of view. Yes, its abilities are not used tooo often, but there are many examples of games where it were used and saved the game!
It's still a small change compared to the likes of Warcraft 2 -> Warcraft 3 or even just removing medics entirely. There's still a "medic" unit, it's just flying now. Medics were always one of the least interesting units in BW anyway (the occasional medic-wall aside they were mostly just a War3 style buffer), so they could use a change (in this case, having their ability combined with another unit).
Starcraft 2 is already just about as close as it can possibly be to SC1 without pissing off normal people who actually want a 10-year-later sequel to have some differences from the original game. The basic mechanics, economy, etc, are exactly the same. The only differences are some units minorly tweaked and only a handful of truly new/original units. It seems ridiculously selfish for the "wannabe pro" community here to keep declaring the end of the world over what few changes *are* made.
This thread is just another example of knee-jerk conservatism from the hardcore community and should be throughly ignored by Blizzard. They should keep or cut the medic dropship on its own merits, not whether people reflexively whine over one of the units being changed without ever having played with it or even seen it action.
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SC2 has become so bad now that it's at a point where it's just downright hilariously funny
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On March 12 2008 21:46 pyrogenetix wrote:
SC2 has become so bad now that it's at a point where it's just downright hilariously funny
Fine, then if you're so determined to hate it then fuck off out of this forum and take your thoughtless knee-jerk trolling bullshit with you.
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On March 12 2008 09:12 Meta wrote:
Problem:
Medic can't keep up with reapers because they jump over things:
Solution:
Medic + Jetpack
^--- you just asked for a repost:
Unit: Ultralisk
Main role: Kicking ass
Problem: Ultralisks cant keep up with flying medics and reapers because they jump over things
Solution: Ultralisk + Jetpack
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They should just remove reapers, add a late game jetpack upgrade for marines and be done with it. In the same way zerglings could've used the wings to jump up/down cliffs and blink could be given to zealots, since on a ranged unit it will most likely be a gimmick(15 seconds cooldown, lol) or overpowered.
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On March 12 2008 21:42 gravity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2008 21:08 G.s)NarutO wrote:On March 12 2008 21:02 gravity wrote:
I think this is an interesting idea to at least try and I wish people would stop whining and flipping out over ever little change (and yes, this is a small change in the grand scheme of things). If you're determined to hate the medic ship not matter what you're probably going to hate SC2 so just forget SC2 ever existed and stick to SC1. The rest of us that have an ounce of creativity and open-mindedness in our body can wait and see. I'm sorry but its not a small change at all. The medic was a unit that really affected the game in many points of view. Yes, its abilities are not used tooo often, but there are many examples of games where it were used and saved the game! It's still a small change compared to the likes of Warcraft 2 -> Warcraft 3 or even just removing medics entirely. There's still a "medic" unit, it's just flying now. Medics were always one of the least interesting units in BW anyway (the occasional medic-wall aside they were mostly just a War3 style buffer), so they could use a change (in this case, having their ability combined with another unit). Starcraft 2 is already just about as close as it can possibly be to SC1 without pissing off normal people who actually want a 10-year-later sequel to have some differences from the original game. The basic mechanics, economy, etc, are exactly the same. The only differences are some units minorly tweaked and only a handful of truly new/original units. It seems ridiculously selfish for the "wannabe pro" community here to keep declaring the end of the world over what few changes *are* made. This thread is just another example of knee-jerk conservatism from the hardcore community and should be throughly ignored by Blizzard. They should keep or cut the medic dropship on its own merits, not whether people reflexively whine over one of the units being changed without ever having played with it or even seen it action.
...starcraft broodwar and starcraft 2 are VERY different games, and i hope you get banned very soon
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Well, I'm quite against it, not for the sake of beloved medics (I strongly support any modifications and thank the team for keeping us informed). But as stated before, this a wrong aswer to the reapers question. If reapers are too weak, give them some HP, so that skilled players can effectively pratice hit and run with medics staying behind the cliff and healing the returning reapers. Reapers shouldn't need any kind of support.
No need to rant against the dev, though, they're trying to inject novelty without breaking the game. Quite tricky.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On March 12 2008 21:46 pyrogenetix wrote:
SC2 has become so bad now that it's at a point where it's just downright hilariously funny
Don't really get comments such as this.. Did you honestly watch the HQ videos of zerg/of progamers playing SC2 and think to yourself; "Boy, this game sure does suck"?
I dunno, I watched them and thought "Holy shit I want to play this game!". Everyone who plays it says it's good, EVERYONE. Do they all say it's better than SC? Nah, they don't. But so what? Maybe it wont be EXACTLY as good as SC.. MAYBE. Maybe it will be better. MAYBE.
But I think calling it "So bad it's downright hilarious" makes 0 sense, at least unless you've tried it.
This being said, I'm 100% against the medivac.. It sounds awkward, clumsy, it removes some very cool micro (since medics are excellent at blocking incoming units) and the medic is just plain cooler.
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Good. Faggot Terrans.
I only check to see what units are in every few weeks, because every so often, they do retarded builds like this. This is probably from the same douchebag who bought us the Surfing Zealot!
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On March 12 2008 21:49 gravity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2008 21:46 pyrogenetix wrote:
SC2 has become so bad now that it's at a point where it's just downright hilariously funny Fine, then if you're so determined to hate it then fuck off out of this forum and take your thoughtless knee-jerk trolling bullshit with you.
Maybe if you weren't such a troll you'd realize that even the smallest changes would fundamentally change the game. The game already is way different from SC and the outcry isn't about that - it's about additions that seem dangerously close to failed RTS concepts (seen from AoE3, DoW, RoL, SupremeC, CoH).
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Why don't we just give all abilities to all units of all races with the same stats and looks so we don't have to care about balance and stuff anymore, mothership only ftw.
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On March 12 2008 23:26 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2008 21:46 pyrogenetix wrote:
SC2 has become so bad now that it's at a point where it's just downright hilariously funny Don't really get comments such as this.. Did you honestly watch the HQ videos of zerg/of progamers playing SC2 and think to yourself; "Boy, this game sure does suck"? I dunno, I watched them and thought "Holy shit I want to play this game!". Everyone who plays it says it's good, EVERYONE. Do they all say it's better than SC? Nah, they don't. But so what? Maybe it wont be EXACTLY as good as SC.. MAYBE. Maybe it will be better. MAYBE. But I think calling it "So bad it's downright hilarious" makes 0 sense, at least unless you've tried it. This being said, I'm 100% against the medivac.. It sounds awkward, clumsy, it removes some very cool micro (since medics are excellent at blocking incoming units) and the medic is just plain cooler.
actually i watch the vid's and really dont think it looks nearly as fun as sc because it reminds me too much of wc3, but maybe once i try it I will think differently
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I've watched every vid I could get my hands on and my expectations have skyrocketed. If this is not the greatest game ever, I just might kill myself, and everybody around me. oO
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On March 12 2008 07:58 Zelniq wrote:
It really fucking amazes me how they can think to remove the MEDIC in order to solve the problem of players not wanting to get REAPERS. Their "solution" doesn't even fix that anyways.
Haha word! I wonder how the meeting was like. Maybe something like this:
Todays topic "What shall we do to increase the use of the Terran unit Reaper?"
Anyone?
(...)
Hmm.. Erm.. Why don't we remove the Medic.. OH YEAH! Great idea, remove it!
(...)
Or wait we can't do that.. Don't remove it, replace it with a flying Medic with lazerguns and rockets! Oh hell yeah! An even better idea..
: ))
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Sweden33719 Posts
On March 13 2008 00:14 GoSuPlAyEr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2008 23:26 FrozenArbiter wrote:On March 12 2008 21:46 pyrogenetix wrote:
SC2 has become so bad now that it's at a point where it's just downright hilariously funny Don't really get comments such as this.. Did you honestly watch the HQ videos of zerg/of progamers playing SC2 and think to yourself; "Boy, this game sure does suck"? I dunno, I watched them and thought "Holy shit I want to play this game!". Everyone who plays it says it's good, EVERYONE. Do they all say it's better than SC? Nah, they don't. But so what? Maybe it wont be EXACTLY as good as SC.. MAYBE. Maybe it will be better. MAYBE. But I think calling it "So bad it's downright hilarious" makes 0 sense, at least unless you've tried it. This being said, I'm 100% against the medivac.. It sounds awkward, clumsy, it removes some very cool micro (since medics are excellent at blocking incoming units) and the medic is just plain cooler. actually i watch the vid's and really dont think it looks nearly as fun as sc because it reminds me too much of wc3, but maybe once i try it I will think differently
The only thing it has in common with WC3 is the fact that it's in 3D and the Queen looks like a pitlord (or whatever that neutral hero was called).
The maps look like SC maps (mostly) and the units respond instantaneously, seems good to me (talking about the savior vs bisu FPV here).
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On March 13 2008 03:46 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2008 00:14 GoSuPlAyEr wrote:On March 12 2008 23:26 FrozenArbiter wrote:On March 12 2008 21:46 pyrogenetix wrote:
SC2 has become so bad now that it's at a point where it's just downright hilariously funny Don't really get comments such as this.. Did you honestly watch the HQ videos of zerg/of progamers playing SC2 and think to yourself; "Boy, this game sure does suck"? I dunno, I watched them and thought "Holy shit I want to play this game!". Everyone who plays it says it's good, EVERYONE. Do they all say it's better than SC? Nah, they don't. But so what? Maybe it wont be EXACTLY as good as SC.. MAYBE. Maybe it will be better. MAYBE. But I think calling it "So bad it's downright hilarious" makes 0 sense, at least unless you've tried it. This being said, I'm 100% against the medivac.. It sounds awkward, clumsy, it removes some very cool micro (since medics are excellent at blocking incoming units) and the medic is just plain cooler. actually i watch the vid's and really dont think it looks nearly as fun as sc because it reminds me too much of wc3, but maybe once i try it I will think differently The only thing it has in common with WC3 is the fact that it's in 3D and the Queen looks like a pitlord (or whatever that neutral hero was called). The maps look like SC maps (mostly) and the units respond instantaneously, seems good to me (talking about the savior vs bisu FPV here).
Ya, the FPV looked good and seemed to play like Starcraft Broodwar. The only thing that concerns me is that Terran seems to have had the most boring changes, and this Medivac crap. Also, the Thor seems to be a bad idea, but it's too late for them to replace that unit now.
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On March 13 2008 04:13 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2008 03:46 FrozenArbiter wrote:On March 13 2008 00:14 GoSuPlAyEr wrote:On March 12 2008 23:26 FrozenArbiter wrote:On March 12 2008 21:46 pyrogenetix wrote:
SC2 has become so bad now that it's at a point where it's just downright hilariously funny Don't really get comments such as this.. Did you honestly watch the HQ videos of zerg/of progamers playing SC2 and think to yourself; "Boy, this game sure does suck"? I dunno, I watched them and thought "Holy shit I want to play this game!". Everyone who plays it says it's good, EVERYONE. Do they all say it's better than SC? Nah, they don't. But so what? Maybe it wont be EXACTLY as good as SC.. MAYBE. Maybe it will be better. MAYBE. But I think calling it "So bad it's downright hilarious" makes 0 sense, at least unless you've tried it. This being said, I'm 100% against the medivac.. It sounds awkward, clumsy, it removes some very cool micro (since medics are excellent at blocking incoming units) and the medic is just plain cooler. actually i watch the vid's and really dont think it looks nearly as fun as sc because it reminds me too much of wc3, but maybe once i try it I will think differently The only thing it has in common with WC3 is the fact that it's in 3D and the Queen looks like a pitlord (or whatever that neutral hero was called). The maps look like SC maps (mostly) and the units respond instantaneously, seems good to me (talking about the savior vs bisu FPV here). Ya, the FPV looked good and seemed to play like Starcraft Broodwar. The only thing that concerns me is that Terran seems to have had the most boring changes, and this Medivac crap. Also, the Thor seems to be a bad idea, but it's too late for them to replace that unit now.
it's never too late to replace a unit ! (*cough* Mothership one-of-a-kind *cough*)
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Sweden33719 Posts
Fixed a couple of broken quotes.
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the game play is cool, seems abit slower than sc, but the thing i cant get over is the unit design...... the corrupter is just purple tadpole on viagra.......
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On March 12 2008 23:52 naventus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2008 21:49 gravity wrote:On March 12 2008 21:46 pyrogenetix wrote:
SC2 has become so bad now that it's at a point where it's just downright hilariously funny Fine, then if you're so determined to hate it then fuck off out of this forum and take your thoughtless knee-jerk trolling bullshit with you. Maybe if you weren't such a troll you'd realize that even the smallest changes would fundamentally change the game. The game already is way different from SC and the outcry isn't about that - it's about additions that seem dangerously close to failed RTS concepts (seen from AoE3, DoW, RoL, SupremeC, CoH).
CoH? And do you mean all those RTSs themselves are unsuccessful or include failed concepts
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I don't think it's such a terrible idea. Sure, you can no longer wall with medics, but dropships themselves do allow for some cool micro tricks. (eg boxer + tanks) You could have an incredibly mobile mnm force or use dropships for mech in combination with reapers. Who knows. Don't just shoot down every idea instantly merely because it is something different than SC. On the other hand, this probably wont even stay in the game very long, as nothing is set in stone just yet.
Have faith. =)
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On March 13 2008 07:17 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2008 23:52 naventus wrote:On March 12 2008 21:49 gravity wrote:On March 12 2008 21:46 pyrogenetix wrote:
SC2 has become so bad now that it's at a point where it's just downright hilariously funny Fine, then if you're so determined to hate it then fuck off out of this forum and take your thoughtless knee-jerk trolling bullshit with you. Maybe if you weren't such a troll you'd realize that even the smallest changes would fundamentally change the game. The game already is way different from SC and the outcry isn't about that - it's about additions that seem dangerously close to failed RTS concepts (seen from AoE3, DoW, RoL, SupremeC, CoH). CoH? And do you mean all those RTSs themselves are unsuccessful or include failed concepts
CoH owns... best RTS game outside of SC
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makes sense, but it makes more sense to have medics with jetpacks to keep up with reapers
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On March 13 2008 06:37 Vaanelo wrote:
the game play is cool, seems abit slower than sc, but the thing i cant get over is the unit design...... the corrupter is just purple tadpole on viagra.......
ZZZZTTTT! Don't touch that Corrupter. That and the Ultra don't need one lick of change in visuals. Save the disrespect for the unit that needs it... the poor ugly Infester that took the spot of the much better looking cousin, the Defiler. Give us back the defiler visual design already!
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At first glance the corruptor wasn't very impressive, it seemed like a big brain with some tentacles sticking out of it, and gosh darnit Blizzard sure seem obsessed with tentacles nowadays. But my real concern about them is their speed. In the small vid where they infested two BC and a bunch of vikings, they were very, very slow. And I'm wondering how their tentacle-tail will look when they turn sharply.
Getting back to the tentacles, I'm also worried about Blizz's agenda of making Zerg as icky as possible. There are tentacles sticking out of everything, the Queen extends creep by placing Creep Tumors, the Infestors vomit onto buildings to infest them, I mean... I never considered Zerg disgusting in BW. I considered them to be cool, durable and Starship Troopers like. And the icky also seems artificial. Zerg is they are highly evolved, pure and very purposefully functional. They're not the monster under my bed or the apostles from Berserk (NSFC).
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On March 12 2008 08:06 talismania wrote:
they could just give medics a jetpack (maybe as upgrade, maybe standard)as well?
Hell yeah. You can slip by the opponent's defense before they set it up, create some trouble while you tech to medics then later medics jump pack in.
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On March 12 2008 08:06 talismania wrote:
they could just give medics a jetpack (maybe as upgrade, maybe standard)as well?
Morph them into Jetpack Medics. Kekeke.
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I dunno, the Reapers do seem kinda useless mid to lategame when dropships and drop-pods will be in abundance anyway. Their one saving grace might be their mines, if they still have them.
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Maybe they should change the reapers for being able to have a short range blink like the stalkers, except that it acts as a stimpack and does damage...?
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Yeah, I saw that on b.net forums, so just for fun I wrote up this solution. I'd still way rather medics, but I thought this solution is neat and had some potential if they insisted on removing the medics.
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I have mixed feelings about the Medivac Dropship. It seems to me that the purpose of a dropship is simply transportation. It's own limitations as a simple conveyance is part of the balance of Terran mobility.
A Dropship is a gambit. Filling a Dropship with a handful of units is a dangerous thing, for the Terran, and the opponent. If it is intercepted, your plans can have a very abrupt end. A Dropship has 1 purpose. It could have anything inside, from tanks, to Bio. I feel like the Dropship has enough potential and purpose without it filling a support role as a healing unit.
My solution, admittedly, is borrowed from from another user on the forums. I don't remember who, but whatever. But if you really feel the need to replace/remove medics, then I feel like this is a viable solution.
What if all Terran Bio units had a MedPack upgrade? A re-usable ability (without autocast!) on a cooldown (30 seconds?). Let's say it heals 30 HP, and a marine has 40. A lazy or busy player could stim, and then instantly medpack so he can attend to base management, whereas a micro oriented player could stim, engage the enemy, and try and medpack as right before they die. Even more intensely, a skilled player could manually select the units being hit, medpack them, and after the battle, move the marines that are cooling down in the back, putting the fresh, ready to med marines in the front.
This would take a lot of control, and a lot of practice. It also allows for different skill levels of using the ability. While allowing newer players to still benefit from the ability, experienced players could use it to it's fullest potential.
That dynamic of having different levels of using abilities in Starcraft, I believe, has a profound effect on the competitive level.
Anyone can Micro mutas, but watching Jaedong do it is a work of art. Same with Nada's rine micro or Bisu's reavers.
Unit abilities should have a clear benefit that anyone can use, but also a deep potential that only the greatest players can discover and display.
My 2 cents.
Edit: Also, if a small animation can indicate medpack usage, seeing a zerglings engage a group of Marines, and seeing the front marines Med in an excellent display of control, it could really add to it as a spectator sport. I can imagine screaming fans and commentators already.
It would also add to the dynamic between early game TvZ. Zerglings engage marines at close to a 1:1 ratio before medics/stim. Once medics arrive in BW, the ratio changes drastically, as it would once medpacks were to be upgraded in SC2.
(Though I really like this idea, I think a part of me feels like Medics is still the most natural answer to this problem.)
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I fail to see why Reapers would need to be healed.
Seems to me that they're replacing the same niche in the Terren army as the Vultures previously held. Vultures never neded to be healed, simply because they were harassment units. Either they managed to get in and do some damage, or they were found out and chased out/destroyed. If the Reaper really is a fast harassment unit, they wouldn't need to be healed. With speed and a decent attack, they'll fulfill their purpose.
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On March 13 2008 10:23 Nintu wrote:
What if all Terran Bio units had a MedPack upgrade? A re-usable ability (without autocast!) on a cooldown (30 seconds?). Let's say it heals 30 HP, and a marine has 40. A lazy or busy player could stim, and then instantly medpack so he can attend to base management, whereas a micro oriented player could stim, engage the enemy, and try and medpack as right before they die. Even more intensely, a skilled player could manually select the units being hit, medpack them, and after the battle, move the marines that are cooling down in the back, putting the fresh, ready to med marines in the front.
Yeah cool, you do that, I'll heal my units with medics without autocast and we'll meet back here at half past impossible. :p
That is just waaaaaaaay too micro intensive. Worked in WC3 because the armies were small and the HP was high, won't have a chance of working in SC.
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On March 13 2008 10:38 Chau wrote:
I fail to see why Reapers would need to be healed.
Seems to me that they're replacing the same niche in the Terren army as the Vultures previously held. Vultures never neded to be healed, simply because they were harassment units. Either they managed to get in and do some damage, or they were found out and chased out/destroyed. If the Reaper really is a fast harassment unit, they wouldn't need to be healed. With speed and a decent attack, they'll fulfill their purpose.
agreed
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On March 13 2008 10:54 Meh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2008 10:23 Nintu wrote:
What if all Terran Bio units had a MedPack upgrade? A re-usable ability (without autocast!) on a cooldown (30 seconds?). Let's say it heals 30 HP, and a marine has 40. A lazy or busy player could stim, and then instantly medpack so he can attend to base management, whereas a micro oriented player could stim, engage the enemy, and try and medpack as right before they die. Even more intensely, a skilled player could manually select the units being hit, medpack them, and after the battle, move the marines that are cooling down in the back, putting the fresh, ready to med marines in the front. Yeah cool, you do that, I'll heal my units with medics without autocast and we'll meet back here at half past impossible. :p That is just waaaaaaaay too micro intensive. Worked in WC3 because the armies were small and the HP was high, won't have a chance of working in SC.
as I said, I'd rather medics too.
Also, it's not meant for vs Reavers or Tanks.. It's meant for vs Rines, lings, hydras, etc..
Also, you don't think SC's micro has evolved over the years? We've seen many displays of micro that has surprised us over the years. I don't think this scenario would necessarily be out of the range of possibility to perform.
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On March 13 2008 10:38 Chau wrote:
I fail to see why Reapers would need to be healed.
Seems to me that they're replacing the same niche in the Terren army as the Vultures previously held. Vultures never neded to be healed, simply because they were harassment units. Either they managed to get in and do some damage, or they were found out and chased out/destroyed. If the Reaper really is a fast harassment unit, they wouldn't need to be healed. With speed and a decent attack, they'll fulfill their purpose.
hmm didnt think of reapers as the replacement for vultures, but yeah harrassment units like reapers dont really need healing, plus their early game harrassment so whatever.
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United States7166 Posts
On March 12 2008 20:55 G.s)NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2008 09:05 Manifesto7 wrote:
You all realize that they have designed, tested, and thrown away 5x the units that will actually appear in the game right? Fucking relax, it is an idea, and it will either fit well into the final product or not. You are right, but they threw them away because the community stood up and told their opinion about trash units. If we don't do anything they will probably stick with it because they think we like it. GO TO HELL FLYING MEDIC SHIP! I want my medic!!!!!
wow.. so you're saying Blizzard [edit]always[/edit] throws units away cus of the community and not because of their own desire to get rid of them? you are so naive
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Sweden33719 Posts
In the case of the soulhunter I'm pretty sure the absolutely total outrage played a part..
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"Issue: Medics aren't something an enemy player can effectively counter. If you have a bunch of Medics then you are just harder to kill.
Possible Solve: Make the healing unit into a larger vehicle that can be effectively targeted"
oh i am so in love with this idea. i mean medics were sooooo annoying in broodwar. hard to kill.
but like. what about zerg? are they going to counter medics by corrupting them? i guess that'll work better than letting banelings die before being able to reach the marines. then you can heal roaches with medics. yeehaw.
anyway, maybe some people already said what i said but i've been reading stuff in forums all day and i'm not going through all those posts right now.
anyway besides helping reapers easier it will help ghosts easier too.
On March 13 2008 09:27 Meh wrote:
Getting back to the tentacles, I'm also worried about Blizz's agenda of making Zerg as icky as possible. There are tentacles sticking out of everything, the Queen extends creep by placing Creep Tumors, the Infestors vomit onto buildings to infest them, I mean... I never considered Zerg disgusting in BW. I considered them to be cool, durable and Starship Troopers like. And the icky also seems artificial. Zerg is they are highly evolved, pure and very purposefully functional. They're not the monster under my bed or the apostles from
heh, yeah well a friend of mine thought they were disgusting.
i suppose he might puke trying to play starcraft 2 as the zerg.
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wow i was just going through your posts guys and i guess no one is saying what i'm saying. heh heh. why does everyone think they're changing the medic because of the reaper? they said they're changing it because it was too hard to kill. now with mechanical medics you need space construction vehicles to repair them, and you cannot heal them.
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United States7166 Posts
I always thought the Zerg were the most awesome because they don't need any cowardly weapons or technology like the terrans and protoss do to kick ass. They just fucking evolve their ownselves to beat the shit out of you with just their bodies. Like animals. Or like the phrase "fight like a man" (referring to using your fists rather than a gun/etc). What's with all this "toss is the manly race" when they would be garbage without their aritificial shields, robotic technology, and magic. Although magic is cool so that's ok. Looks like SC2 is not going to change any of this.
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On March 13 2008 10:38 Chau wrote:
I fail to see why Reapers would need to be healed.
Seems to me that they're replacing the same niche in the Terren army as the Vultures previously held. Vultures never neded to be healed, simply because they were harassment units. Either they managed to get in and do some damage, or they were found out and chased out/destroyed. If the Reaper really is a fast harassment unit, they wouldn't need to be healed. With speed and a decent attack, they'll fulfill their purpose.
my thoughts exactly
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On March 13 2008 11:26 dcttr66 wrote:wow i was just going through your posts guys and i guess no one is saying what i'm saying. heh heh. why does everyone think they're changing the medic because of the reaper? they said they're changing it because it was too hard to kill. now with mechanical medics you need space construction vehicles to repair them, and you cannot heal them.
oh...i get it, those people are not clicking on show spoiler on first post.
anyway, i guess i wouldn't mind if it flew, but i wouldn't want them to be fast little she-demons.
On March 13 2008 11:26 dcttr66 wrote:but like. what about zerg? are they going to counter medics by corrupting them? i guess that'll work better than letting banelings die before being able to reach the marines. then you can heal roaches with medics. yeehaw.
oh snot i just read something on the news about the zerg units at tl.net, at first i was looking at the news on the units at sclegacy. from there is where i got the idea, but tl.net said this: - Rather than destroying it's opponents, it infests them an turns them into a stationary turret-like unit/building, making them fight their own allies.
hmmm...sounds interesting. will they have different turret like units for different corrupted units?
so many unanswered questions...
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I... Are you quoting yourself?
The medics are being looked over because Dustin Browder said that them not being able to follow reapers over cliffs was a problem.
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United States43209 Posts
On March 13 2008 11:41 Zelniq wrote:
I always thought the Zerg were the most awesome because they don't need any cowardly weapons or technology like the terrans and protoss do to kick ass. They just fucking evolve their ownselves to beat the shit out of you with just their bodies. Like animals. Or like the phrase "fight like a man" (referring to using your fists rather than a gun/etc). What's with all this "toss is the manly race" when they would be garbage without their aritificial shields, robotic technology, and magic. Although magic is cool so that's ok. Looks like SC2 is not going to change any of this.
They shape their dormant mental abilities into psionic blades which they wield in close combat. That's better than fighting just with your own bodies. It's charging at a zerg army knowing you are armed only with your own mind. They sacrifice themselves to create beings of pure energy for war and when you kill them they get right back up and come back at you in cyborg bodies. The zerg are just organic robots. The protoss are men.
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On March 13 2008 12:08 Meh wrote:
I... Are you quoting yourself?
The medics are being looked over because Dustin Browder said that them not being able to follow reapers over cliffs was a problem.
yeah that's true but they said they wanted to change the medic anyway so they thought of using the reaper as an excuse. at any rate i fail to see where they say that the flying medic is actually going to be a dropship, and lots of people seem to think that.
oh i see it, it is at the beginning where he calls it a medivac dropship.
well, yeah, that idea is stupid. you can't just pick up units in a drop ship and transport them and have them healed. i mean what happened to medics healing from inside a bunker? can medivac dropships go in bunkers now? well they did implement that idea and were saying it was a strong bunker push. maybe they thought to get rid of it. maybe they should just execute the medic along with the disappearance of the UED and be done with it. i guess they can always bring back the UED in the sc2 expansion and then have the medics return.
But i can see why they would want a different kind of medic because maybe the UED isn't going to come back. and Medics were from the UED.
actually on second thought infantry getting healed on a medivac dropship isn't a bad idea. yeah, i guess you could do it that way. but then fighting units wouldn't get healed by the ship right? oh it's so confusing. I mean I guess they could do both, but it sounds weird. Maybe Fighting Infantry in sc2 won't get healed. I guess that wouldn't be so bad.
actually i always thought it was unrealistic, how is a medic supposed to heal a marine's wounds through his suit? and while he's shooting up some zerg? never seemed realistic. they only sold it by saying, well guys, with medics on the team the marines survive on the battlefield longer. so on the dropship, conceptually the infantry take off their suits and medics there heal them, then they put their suits back on. so maybe they can't hop back out until they're healed all the way.
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Wrong, medivacs can heal units below them.
Reapers are ONE reason for the experiment but not the only one.
Barracs were getting a bit crowded (Marines, Medics, Reapers, Marauders, Ghosts)
Medics give a Pack of Marines added survivability no matter what (don´t even mentioning attacking them first-remember Medicwalls, but I´ll explain it if needed).
The dropship was boring.
Intentional issues include: Medvacs can´t heal each other, they can be seperated from the Marines (chased away with ATA), they support all infantry equally even though differently (who ever got a Medic to heal a Ghost?).
Edit: Also it returns the survivability vs. firepower question to stimpacks earlygame and during pod drops (medics might get in but medevacs certainly won´t) that vanished in BW thanks to the medic - in what kinds of engagement DIDN´T stimpacks get used thanks to medics?
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Sweden33719 Posts
You say all of the above like they were bad things, I think they were good things. How exactly was the dropship boring? Tanks+dship, fun as hell. Marines+dship, fun as hell.
7 marines/1 medic created some of the most epic micro sequences in SC history, yet the game is still balanced. Why anyone would feel the need to remove this is beyond me.
The medivac just seems so boring to me, I don't want to have an annoying clumsy air unit hovering around my marines...
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Compared to the other races new transports the dropship IS bland.
The issue isn´t 7 marines 1 medic - medics can heal each other, that is the issue. Before marine oneshotting Medics simply act as HP regenerators - "sniping" them didn´t really help since they themselves enjoyed the same (actually a bit more) HP advantage as the Marines - leading to medic walls.
Inended was that the Marines take hits for the Medics and not the other way around.
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They will change back to medics for sure. As FA already said - hoovering around with some Dropship above your marines in order to heal them just doesn't fit.
Of course Blizz will have some hard work to make Marine&Medic balanced, if they are reimplenmenting them.
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They just need to give medics a jetpack upgrade that unlocks when you make the reaper building or something. The medivac sounds like a unit that will be focussed all the time which can render a marine medic team useless way too fast, the great thing about the current m&m in sc1 is that it's all about the marine micro and how the zerg micro's his lings/lurkers etc. Not about focus firing 1 unit which is just gay.
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United States7166 Posts
then couldnt they just change medics so they cant heal each other? even though it doesnt make logical sense, wouldnt this solve the problem? perhaps let them be repairable by SCVs. They could change the art of their suits to give them a much more technologically advanced, robotic-suit or something.. although I like their current look.. it'd help to explain the change. although we still want them to be built from a barracks..so...i dunno
OR
make it so medics that are busy healing someone cannot themselves be healed by another medic
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I think a mid tier upgrade for Reapers to be able to lift one unit with them when jumping cliffs would be the best way to go, besides just accepting reapers don't get heals. Basically select infantry unit, right click reaper, then order move to reaper and he will take the following unit with him when he jumps, releasing when he is done (if subsequent cliffs follow, other unit is still on follow and the reaper will still take it with him). For groups, select group, right click a reaper, then move all reapers and they will each take one of the units in the first group with them when they jump.
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On March 13 2008 09:27 Meh wrote:At first glance the corruptor wasn't very impressive, it seemed like a big brain with some tentacles sticking out of it, and gosh darnit Blizzard sure seem obsessed with tentacles nowadays. But my real concern about them is their speed. In the small vid where they infested two BC and a bunch of vikings, they were very, very slow. And I'm wondering how their tentacle-tail will look when they turn sharply. Getting back to the tentacles, I'm also worried about Blizz's agenda of making Zerg as icky as possible. There are tentacles sticking out of everything, the Queen extends creep by placing Creep Tumors, the Infestors vomit onto buildings to infest them, I mean... I never considered Zerg disgusting in BW. I considered them to be cool, durable and Starship Troopers like. And the icky also seems artificial. Zerg is they are highly evolved, pure and very purposefully functional. They're not the monster under my bed or the apostles from Berserk (NSFC).
I always thought the Zerg were cool as well. The only things that were gross in SC/BW to me were queens, and they redid them already in a much better way. But the tentacles look cool to me. The only thing grossing me out now is the Infester. It really needs to be more like the old Defiler.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On March 14 2008 05:15 Zelniq wrote:
then couldnt they just change medics so they cant heal each other? even though it doesnt make logical sense, wouldnt this solve the problem? perhaps let them be repairable by SCVs. They could change the art of their suits to give them a much more technologically advanced, robotic-suit or something.. although I like their current look.. it'd help to explain the change. although we still want them to be built from a barracks..so...i dunno
OR
make it so medics that are busy healing someone cannot themselves be healed by another medic
Or leave the medics as they were since it's not imbalanced in BW and shouldn't be imbalanced in SC2.. And if it is, they can just make the heal less effective by increasing the mana cost, decreasing the medics total mana or making it heal less.
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Problem: Some TL members think Blizzard's design team is full of idiots in spite of much evidence to the contrary
Solution: Bitch and moan about every idea you don't like incessantly
I don't like this idea, but honestly, relax guys.
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I agree that pure bitching is never good, but if you don't like something about a game that is still in development you should definitely voice your concern. Its just like voting, if you dont vote, then you have no right to bitch once the president is in office.
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This is MaybeNextTime's brother.
I know this is an old topic but I didn't want to make a new one about the medivac.
I was thinking about the reason for exchanging medics for medivacs - the fact reapers were left behind with no healing.
Here's the deal, why do they need healing in the first place? Harass units are supposed to jump in, kill (some) workers and GTFO. Now comes the fact that reapers are probably only useful with stimpack goin' on, which reduces their HP greatly (they also have only 50 HP).
How about bringing back medics (medivacs, just like medics, render reapers useless because marines are simply the better option, as Blizzard had stated in their reasoning) and giving reapers the +10 HP upgrade (the visual aspect doesn't really matter - it may be a shield, it may be whatever looks good) instead of giving it to marines.
Not only would we have M&M back - we'd have viable reapers without the need to get starport, with a simple upgrade at the tech lab. What do you guys think?
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On July 04 2008 23:13 maybenexttime wrote:
This is MaybeNextTime's brother.
I know this is an old topic but I didn't want to make a new one about the medivac.
I was thinking about the reason for exchanging medics for medivacs - the fact reapers were left behind with no healing.
Here's the deal, why do they need healing in the first place? Harass units are supposed to jump in, kill (some) workers and GTFO. Now comes the fact that reapers are probably only useful with stimpack goin' on, which reduces their HP greatly (they also have only 50 HP).
True about them being raider units but could someone confirm this
because last time I read about Reapers with Stim was on sc2blog were they said Reapers had no Stim... but that was some time ago like month or 2
How about bringing back medics (medivacs, just like medics, render reapers useless because marines are simply the better option, as Blizzard had stated in their reasoning) and giving reapers the +10 HP upgrade (the visual aspect doesn't really matter - it may be a shield, it may be whatever looks good) instead of giving it to marines.
Not only would we have M&M back - we'd have viable reapers without the need to get starport, with a simple upgrade at the tech lab. What do you guys think?
The problem is Blizzard never stated that
Dustin Browder's posts
Karune's posts
Found something interesting about Reapers tho.
Karune answered question about units' sight over cliff (at 6/11/2008 ;P):
"(...) there are more units that are able to give you sight in those situations (Reapers, Medivac Dropships, Colossi, Banshees, Sensor Towers (to let you know units are on cliffs), Overseers, as well as older units including Observers, Terran's Scan, and others).
And I can remember very well Cavez defending Reapers as more efficient units to raid as they can start dealing damage faster than normal drop of Marines; be it:
1) D-8 explosive Charges (remember those have 30s cooldown, once again mentioned here)
2) Bonus vs light units not mentioned here tho... maybe Stim alone is better?
3) Marines being unloaded between 1second pauses, when Reapers during that time already do damage
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EPT
