Is the larve respawn broken?

On June 26 2026 12:57 BluemoonSC wrote:

Starcraft 2 has quite literally been balanced around macro mechanics and harassment/economy disruption. Letting your opponent do whatever they want has historically been bad, no matter which race is considered OP at the time.

On June 26 2026 13:42 BluemoonSC wrote:
I understand what the larva change means.

But being upset that youre forced to push the zerg so they cant play as greedy (no matter what the margins are) is a crazy take.

That would be true of any race that is wearing the pants during a given balance patch.

On June 26 2026 14:42 tigera6 wrote:

You are not addressing my point, I am not upset that other races have to play aggressive against Zerg, I am confused they have to make the patch such that its now HARDER to do so. And giving Zerg an easier time with all those buff, not just the larvae change with also cheaper Carapace, better and quicker Microbial Shroud.

On June 26 2026 21:24 ProTech wrote:


I can't for the life of me figure out why people are even whining about this. Yes it sucks, but it's so painfully obvious that it's broken you don't need to worry that it won't get reverted.

Same w/ the void ray, although I don't think many people have figured that one out yet.

On June 27 2026 05:37 BluemoonSC wrote:

I wasn't addressing your point because I was addressing someone claiming zerg can max out by 7:30 on live.

but if you insist.

I am not 100% convinced that the larva change on live is as bad as people are making it out to be. It's not as bad as PTR, Queens are still 175, hatches are back to 300, and they still have to spend a drone to make structures.

I also don't think that the "it'll be the same builds but 30s slower" crowd is entirely correct because it seems to me that people are not applying enough pressure to zergs, allowing them to freely drone, when they should be pressuring z into make something other than drones.

We'll see continued evolution of XvZ openers until build orders get ironed out with the changes. Especially while protoss figure out new timings. I'm personally looking forward to watching the meta develop.

On June 27 2026 12:31 BluemoonSC wrote:

I don't disagree with you that its frustrating to have to relearn your entire economy and production as protoss (i pointed this out as a major issue accompanying economic changes early in the ptr) but in all of the gameplay on live that I've watched, ive seen greedy, prior patch builds by p/t against Zerg.

Literally today, Heromarine went reactor hellion, 3cc, cloaked banshee, +1/+1 bio and was upset that the zerg had 6 mutas out by the time he did all that and switched in to 8 rax marine production (he scouted the spire before it was completed). He still parried the mutas and won the game with only a few worker differential by the time mutas were out. Transport me back into a time before 12 workers and I'd say it would be crazy for a terran to be able to tech and expand so aggressively without being punished.

All I'm saying is I am not 100% convinced that the larva is "broken" quite yet based on what I've been watching - it is definitely strong though! Have you seen different experiences on live?

Two things can be true too - both tournaments should probably be using a mod to bring things back to the previous patch and not play on live bc it is unreasonable to expect they are prepared enough to play their best starcraft.

This is the most sc2 fppov ive watched in a decade though, so I am here for all of this.

On June 28 2026 01:31 BluemoonSC wrote:

The entire game of starcraft is about problem solving, especially when a new patch comes out.

You could make this argument about any one balance patch/change. Zerg has had plenty of these "adjustment" moments throughout starcraft history as well.

Ill also say that after some ladder last night, zerg players need to adjust too. Hatch first isnt "free" anymore.

On June 28 2026 02:44 Athenau wrote:

Balance patches don't happen for no reason. They exist to address a problem, either real or perceived. So what problem is being addressed with this change?

On June 28 2026 04:23 Monochromatic wrote:


The problem this patch addresses is that SC2 was dropped from ESL. The game in its previous state was not a viable esport, so they opted to blow it up in a Hail Mary to attempt to revitalize it.

Will it work? I don't know, but I am very glad they are doing something.

On June 28 2026 14:18 ProTech wrote:
reverting the econ is the absolute best wasy to get people back into the game

On June 28 2026 14:18 ProTech wrote:


and it wasn't a viable e-sport because no one liked LoTV, you can see that in player metrics. season 2 of LoTV was the previous ALL TIME low in terms of its playerbase, so without a casual player base, you have no e-sports.

reverting the econ is the absolute best wasy to get people back into the game, is the larva broken? 100% absolutely but anyone with working brains cells can see that, so don't get used to it, it will get fixed.

On June 28 2026 18:23 SC-Shield wrote:



It's definitely not LotV economy.
StarCraft - released in 1998
StarCraft 2 - released in 2010

It's just a demanding game and it's not one of the newest for sure. Counter-Strike has got a few updates to keep the game fresh, e.g. CS: GO and CS 2. You don't control 200/200 supply of units, it's just you and your accuracy. Granted, it's not an easy game either but you don't focus everywhere at once.

For almost 30 years old gameplay, it's still good that it's being played and in some instances you can find a game relatively quickly (e.g. 2-3 minutes or less if you stick with 1vs1 or 2vs2).
If you truly want to revitalise StarCraft, there has to be a major expansion or StarCraft 3, but with current RAM prices, disk prices, etc, I don't think it would be an ideal time to do that if Blizzard were to release a game tomorrow. Also, Blizard is gone - Microsoft bought them a long time ago. Microsoft probably has StarCraft near at the bottom of the list as they have cloud and AI to take care of, I doubt StarCraft has meaningful revenue for them nowadays even if they try to do something.

It was definitely the economy that screwed this game over.

On June 28 2026 21:13 SC-Shield wrote:
Good for you that you have fun, but I like the LotV economy more. Everything feels slow now, I used to make probes almost non-stop and build order felt smooth. With the current economy, I can make probes up to 14 but there is a second or two delay before I make a gateway. Previous economy used to "click" immediately because you could hit timings to build if you know what I mean. I have to make pylons more frequently now since nexus is nerfed in terms of extra supply.

I don't think my win rate has dropped, it's just a version of LotV I don't really like and judging by other people's opinion in game (not TL or forums), I'm not alone in not liking the patch very much.

I kind of wish Blizzard left balance and economy where they were before this patch and never made another patch again just like Brood War.



Let's compare notes in 6 months when this patch is no longer fresh. Let's see if players have returned because I suspect some people like you are going to play because they genuinely like the patch, but there should be others who are here just to try the patch and maybe quit again.



It is not a popular patch with these percentages, reaction is mixed.

On June 28 2026 21:35 ProTech wrote:



I mean if you think the devs ( assuming they have working brain ce;;s ) are going to revert the game back to 12 workers with the opinions being that split, you may not have been involved in this game for a very long time.

Under no circumstances have blizzard reverted changes unless there was an overwhelming majority of dislikes. If it's split in this way, I can assure you it's going to stay.

We are already started to see icons come back to game such as Need, Scarlette, TY, Time, the list goes on.

As far as my experience, I've figured out that this game is not LoTV anymore, and it's basically Wings/Hots, so yes I'm loving it, but I can very clearly see that people are still operating under the delusion that the game has " slowed down " so the ladder feels pretty easy, since they're using LoTV gameplay concepts.

On June 28 2026 20:36 ProTech wrote:


You don't go from millions of ranked 1v1 players to 247K in the first season of LoTV, and then proceed to have a historic all-time low in terms of players in the second seasons of LoTV is people liked the game.

It was definitely the economy that screwed this game over.

As a player who has made streaming SC2 as a full-time career for almost 17 years, for the last 11 years I have had almost NO fun with SC2. In 3 days of the patch I'm having more fun than LoTV economy ever had to offer.

On June 28 2026 22:22 WombaT wrote:

Was it though?

There are plenty of other factors that influence player drop-off, what makes you so sure that it was the eco changes?

I’m not discounting the possibility, but you seem very sure on this without any real receipts

On June 28 2026 22:49 Poopi wrote:

Millions of ranked 1v1 players? If anything, HotS killed the game with the swarm host horrible games + match fixing, and RTS / sc2 was already in decline in terms of esports compared to LoL and then newer easy games like Fortnite. LotV was actually quite successful in keeping the game alive
It’s naive to think there could be a perfect patch / combination of units that make LotV as successful as early WoL, because the gaming / esport landscape is not the same as it was in 2010 -> at all
And the main issue with the 5.0.16 patch is not only the changes themselves, but the lack of communication / transparency etc. And not listening to feedback

As of now the game feels broken, like a weird version of WoL but in LotV

On June 29 2026 01:35 BluemoonSC wrote:
Let's stay on topic about the larva change. You can debate the patch itself in the main thread.

I do agree that people are playing the new patch like the 12 worker start patch and with the changes to larva, thats why it feels like zerg can drone indiscriminately.

On June 29 2026 12:36 Xsnac1 wrote:


First assertion, that starcraft is about problem solving is factually wrong. It is more a mechanical game than anything else, which has little to do with problem solving.

Zergs never had their core production mechanic (inject), removed or made it so that only in the late game it would make sense to press it (or make it cost money once / queen). It is completely ridiculous what happened with warpgate tech. Protoss is the new terran in terms of production style and this benefits only Clem and demolishes years of muscle memory for protosses.

On June 29 2026 14:30 Artemis2 wrote:
LOTV economy and 12 worker start absolutely turned the game into a crazy mechanics fest rather than a strategical game no clue how people are so blind to this

On June 29 2026 15:11 Poopi wrote:

Even in HotS and WoL the game was a test of mechanical ability rather than strategical (outside the very beginning of patches maybe), as it should
The number of workers didn’t change that fact
Sure you could get away with lesser mechanics like sOs, but it had more to do with protoss than the extension, albeit it was indeed exacerbated in LotV (which is a good thing, being fast and precise is what StarCraft is about, if you want pure strategy play chess and go)

But it’s a very good thing that the game is about mechanics -> everyone can be « strateg1cal!! », it does not take a special person in terms of talent
Whereas the mechanicals gods like Clem / Reynor / Serral and the top KR players are mythical creatures with a lot of training + talent to achieve the mechanical excellence to shine in as good of a game as sc2 (LotV, WoL quickly became horrible with BL infestor and HotS started with the most boring competitive games ever with swarm host)

On June 29 2026 14:38 ProTech wrote:
LoTV econ created an atmosphere that would typically turn metas into not only a pretty boring playing experience, but also a very very boring viewing experience.

On June 29 2026 14:38 ProTech wrote:
IMO players were just able to gain too much information, and defenders advantage was way too strong because of the blown up eco, thus creating the situation we had for 11 years.

On June 29 2026 17:20 Agh wrote:

Take is pretty useless since it's subjective -- playing there is no impact, however It's hard to argue the viewing experience not suffering as it's not only painfully slow but the build orders are more telegraphed to boot.


???. Your reasoning is contradictory. We have almost complete information now since viable opening are more limited in comparison. Throw that on top of the abundant overlord perches, innate hallucination, reaper & worker paths and nobody is getting surprised.
I think defending is the easiest it has even been in the history of the game. We have lower unit counts and responsibilities with the ability to fine tailor reactions based on scouting. This is pretty much entirely in direct correlation with reduced worker start.
I'd be genuinely curious if anyone else believes that a higher worker somehow makes defending easier.


The only thing this patch added was a handful of committed all-ins/cheeses that really only punish openers which are more or less not even viable.
Pressuring and harassment builds now generally require much deeper investment (both initial and transition), and the opportunity cost doesn't really align with what players are able to scout and infer in a 16 year old game.



I find it pretty amusing how mixed the reactions are to the patch. I personally have always thought the game was too fast, and I think most people share that sentiment on both sides, especially those adamantly for the lower count. Everyone got too lost in the sauce of warpgate and larva changes to play around with the idea of perhaps a fractionally slower game speed or perhaps even a nerf to mining be it speed or value.

On June 29 2026 20:04 Harris1st wrote:


Where are you even getting your numbers from? As far as I can tell, all your number for player base are "trust me bro" to support whatever you are argueing for or against

On June 29 2026 20:45 Poopi wrote:

It’s very naïve to think that the playerbase shrank because of worker change. If anything, LotV was a better game than WoL/HotS in virtually any patch (yeah tankivacs were silly and fun, much better than late WoL or basically the entire HotS with either swarm host snoozefests, boring mech meta or broken blink stalkers)

On June 29 2026 20:45 Poopi wrote:

It’s very naïve to think that the playerbase shrank because of worker change. If anything, LotV was a better game than WoL/HotS in virtually any patch (yeah tankivacs were silly and fun, much better than late WoL or basically the entire HotS with either swarm host snoozefests, boring mech meta or broken blink stalkers)

On June 29 2026 22:34 Creager wrote:


This is such an arrogant statement to make... If anything, LotV became a faster game, which allowed players to enter the midgame basically instantly for bigger army interactions at an earlier timing, but 'better' is not really the way I'd frame it.
I personally prefer slower build-up, turtling and mech. That puts me in a tiny minority, I suppose, but the game allowing me to express my preferred playstyle to a certain degree is objectively speaking a better game, since it gives players more distinct identities. Streamlining everything to the extend LotV did (and still does with some QoL "improvements") makes shit "boring" just the same.

On June 29 2026 22:34 Creager wrote:


This is such an arrogant statement to make... If anything, LotV became a faster game, which allowed players to enter the midgame basically instantly for bigger army interactions at an earlier timing, but 'better' is not really the way I'd frame it.
I personally prefer slower build-up, turtling and mech. That puts me in a tiny minority, I suppose, but the game allowing me to express my preferred playstyle to a certain degree is objectively speaking a better game, since it gives players more distinct identities. Streamlining everything to the extend LotV did (and still does with some QoL "improvements") makes shit "boring" just the same.