Match-fixing is kind of expected in the Chinese SC2 scene though. Chinese sports/competitions have always been riddled with match-fixing scandals. Like soccer/football just a few months ago, involving more than 40 clubs over 120 matches. The Chinese FA banned 38 soccer players for life: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/10/sport/china-soccer-match-fixing-intl-hnk . It feels like there are more of these match-fixing scandals reported every few years in China.
These match-fixing and scandals are partially responsible for the terrible performance of their national team, currently ranked #94 in the world, behind the likes of Syria (in an ongoing civil war) and Curacao (population 150k).
With the low prize pool in SC2 particularly in recent years, some players will likely succumb to these extra $.
Which actually makes Oliveira/TIME's win in Katowice '23 even more impressive.
As for Jim, exposing this is definitely better than staying quiet, so regardless of the circumstances, I think he did the right thing. Hopefully EWC will deal with the situation promptly.
On June 09 2025 18:09 johnnyh123 wrote: Match-fixing is kind of expected in the Chinese SC2 scene though. Chinese sports/competitions have always been riddled with match-fixing scandals. Like soccer/football just a few months ago, involving more than 40 clubs over 120 matches. The Chinese FA banned 38 soccer players for life: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/10/sport/china-soccer-match-fixing-intl-hnk . It feels like there are more of these match-fixing scandals reported every few years in China.
These match-fixing and scandals are partially responsible for the terrible performance of their national team, currently ranked #94 in the world, behind the likes of Syria (in an ongoing civil war) and Curacao (population 150k).
Match-fixing is inevitable in all pro sports where the player salaries are low enough for the risk/reward to be worth it to them. That's basically every league that's not American big-four or the biggest soccer leagues in the world.
When I did a little research regarding Life, I found that basically every major Korean sport has had some kind of match-fixing or spot-fixing scandal in the past. If you do just a little research, you find that it's much more prevalent that you'd want to believe as a fan.
That doesn't necessarily mean that the match-fixing in every league is so rampant that it ruins the integrity of the sport. Going back to the Korean leagues I looked up, it at least seemed to me that it was more isolated incidents than pervasive match-fixing going on all the time. But when you think about salaries and incentives in a lot of these leagues, it's just very realistic that some number of players will be tempted with the opportunity.
On June 04 2025 11:00 deepseer wrote: Someone summarized the situations of all the Chinese players that were active during LotV and mentioned in this post.
MacSed, Cloudy: clean Time/Oliveira: no game-related violations (verbal attacks on BreakingGG online do not count) Toodming: no confirmed game-related violations (only rumours), besides posting comments in support of a smurfer and attacking the victim in a minor match iAsounu, XY: ladder boosting before WCS 2014 Cyan, Jieshi: ladder boosting before WCS 2019 Coffee: "170610" event (TL post: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/523751-7-chinese-players-banned-match-fixing-and-smurfing ) BreakingGG: "170610", and verbal attacks on Time online Punk, Silky (not the Silky from America): "170610" Xigua: run away with debt from gambling (not game-related) Jim: match-fixing, run away with debt from gambling (not game-related) Firefly: too many to list
Damn, it seems like there is a lot of drama over there.
The Chinese community has a different vibe for hate speech, you can also easily find hate speech on the Chinese Internet. Time was once criticized for his folly, but as long as he got good results in matches and won IEM, everything was 'forgiven' in the Chinese community. I'm not saying they have any right to 'forgive' anything, it's just there's a different and toxic vibe: some of the Chinese forum users didn't necessarily disagree with time, they just think it's unwise to speak it out. Time was seen as a misguided teenager who got misled by Shenkui (the one who posted this on the Chinese media, a friend of Xiaose, and a father-like figure to Time， who's also known for his racist and misogynistic speech in public), and he 'grew up' after winning IEM and became the national hero among the Chinese community. Nobody cares about this 'dark' history anymore...
SCBOY has an intimate relationship with NetEase, and they are known as the biggest SC2 streamer/ event organizer in China. Xiaose clarified that although he and F91 were once familiar with LeiFeng (the notorious gambler who misled Jim and other Chinese players into gambling), but they distanced themselves from him after learning about rumours of his misbehaviors.But it's stated by Xiaose that a certain admin of NeoTV (the company that Xiaose once worked, and a former organizer of SC2 events) was involved with luring Chinese players to play Texas Hold'em during matches.
The former IG players IA and XY were praised for their ethics during recent discussions in relation to these scandals; they were taken to the gambling table, but still refused to play.
Known as the 'tycoon' or 'godfather' of Chinese SC2, SCBOY has an intimate relationship with some players (Time, Macsed,and etc.) But they are also hated by other players, seen as the monopoly of the Chinese SC2 enterprise. The second group of Chinese players generally have a dark history in relation to cheating and game fixing, so the Chinese SC community generally stands with SCBOY. But also, Time was criticized for his accusation against MSK without any evidence(a Chinese player once banned for game fixing). MSK has shown evidence that he didn't cheat in that game, and Time never apologized for this. Firefly was once familiar with SCBOY, but their relationship became bitter after he was expelled from DPG (for playing for another team without notifying the DPG bosses).
On June 05 2025 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: nice to see this stuff get exposed. Kudos to Jim for coming clean.
On June 06 2025 02:32 MrIronGolem27 wrote:
On June 06 2025 02:05 Pelloth99 wrote:
On June 05 2025 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: nice to see this stuff get exposed. Kudos to Jim for coming clean.
yes kudos to a matchfixing cunt who conveniently decided to stop matchfixing and come "clean" right after announcing he will no longer play. This is the hero we needed, hooray. Maybe you would be so kind and organize a farewell showmatch to honor this Chinese legends rich career ?
This is your first message on the forums, did you really make an account just to say this?
We can commend Jim's doing the right thing here by bringing forth solid evidence for Firefly's involvement in matchfixing while simultaneously condemning his own actions and barring him from competition as well (though it seems he didn't want to play anymore, anyway).
shrug, I give Jim zero credit for only coming clean because he spitefully wanted to bring someone else down with him
ya'll prolly call guys who strike plea deals with prosecutors heroes
"kudos" to "hero" is a big leap. SC2 video game fixing and crimes requiring plea deals and prosecutors is also another big leap. the word "prolly" is doing a lot of work here.
On June 05 2025 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: nice to see this stuff get exposed. Kudos to Jim for coming clean.
yes kudos to a matchfixing cunt who conveniently decided to stop matchfixing and come "clean" right after announcing he will no longer play. This is the hero we needed, hooray. Maybe you would be so kind and organize a farewell showmatch to honor this Chinese legends rich career ?
This is your first message on the forums, did you really make an account just to say this?
We can commend Jim's doing the right thing here by bringing forth solid evidence for Firefly's involvement in matchfixing while simultaneously condemning his own actions and barring him from competition as well (though it seems he didn't want to play anymore, anyway).
true. All kinds of stuff, including competitive SC2, is fixed. At this point the NBA is about as real as the WWE. The Mavericks traded Doncic for what again? Oh, for the 1st over all pick even though they only had a 1.9% shot at it.. Got it.
Toronto has more Italians than any city in NA other than NY. In 2006, the Toronto NBA team was run by an Italian family. The best 18 year old Italian in history was about to go #1 in the draft and Toronto had a 4% chance of winning the #1 pick in the draft lottery. What a miracle... they got it.
The bottom line is: most adults are liars.
What a ridiculous analogy.
Take off the tinfoil hat. The NBA lottery is not fixed. You do know the two examples you listed are not that statistically improbable right? Most of the time the winner of the draft lottery is in the top 5 as far as “chance” to win. Of course once in a while a team with low odds will win.. that’s how odds work.
Quoting 2025 and 2008, 17 years apart basically counters your argument.
On June 05 2025 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: nice to see this stuff get exposed. Kudos to Jim for coming clean.
On June 06 2025 02:32 MrIronGolem27 wrote:
On June 06 2025 02:05 Pelloth99 wrote:
On June 05 2025 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: nice to see this stuff get exposed. Kudos to Jim for coming clean.
yes kudos to a matchfixing cunt who conveniently decided to stop matchfixing and come "clean" right after announcing he will no longer play. This is the hero we needed, hooray. Maybe you would be so kind and organize a farewell showmatch to honor this Chinese legends rich career ?
This is your first message on the forums, did you really make an account just to say this?
We can commend Jim's doing the right thing here by bringing forth solid evidence for Firefly's involvement in matchfixing while simultaneously condemning his own actions and barring him from competition as well (though it seems he didn't want to play anymore, anyway).
shrug, I give Jim zero credit for only coming clean because he spitefully wanted to bring someone else down with him
ya'll prolly call guys who strike plea deals with prosecutors heroes
"kudos" to "hero" is a big leap. SC2 video game fixing and crimes requiring plea deals and prosecutors is also another big leap. the word "prolly" is doing a lot of work here.
On June 06 2025 02:32 MrIronGolem27 wrote:
On June 06 2025 02:05 Pelloth99 wrote:
On June 05 2025 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: nice to see this stuff get exposed. Kudos to Jim for coming clean.
yes kudos to a matchfixing cunt who conveniently decided to stop matchfixing and come "clean" right after announcing he will no longer play. This is the hero we needed, hooray. Maybe you would be so kind and organize a farewell showmatch to honor this Chinese legends rich career ?
This is your first message on the forums, did you really make an account just to say this?
We can commend Jim's doing the right thing here by bringing forth solid evidence for Firefly's involvement in matchfixing while simultaneously condemning his own actions and barring him from competition as well (though it seems he didn't want to play anymore, anyway).
true. All kinds of stuff, including competitive SC2, is fixed. At this point the NBA is about as real as the WWE. The Mavericks traded Doncic for what again? Oh, for the 1st over all pick even though they only had a 1.9% shot at it.. Got it.
Toronto has more Italians than any city in NA other than NY. In 2006, the Toronto NBA team was run by an Italian family. The best 18 year old Italian in history was about to go #1 in the draft and Toronto had a 4% chance of winning the #1 pick in the draft lottery. What a miracle... they got it.
The bottom line is: most adults are liars.
What a ridiculous analogy.
Take off the tinfoil hat. The NBA lottery is not fixed. You do know the two examples you listed are not that statistically improbable right? Most of the time the winner of the draft lottery is in the top 5 as far as “chance” to win. Of course once in a while a team with low odds will win.. that’s how odds work.
Quoting 2025 and 2008, 17 years apart basically counters your argument.
The Bulls had a 1.7% chance and got the greatest chicago high school player in league history as their #1 pick. I can go on and on. no tinfoil hat needed. all you have to do is read and use a bit of logic. The NBA is super shady. The draft is just 1 aspect. Jordan mysteriously decides to start riding buses and playing minor league baseball in the prime of his career?
Gaming the Game by Sean Patrick Griffin Personal Foul by Tim Donaghy Untold: Operation Flagrant Foul (Netflix, 2022) NBA’s Dirty Secret (YouTube, various creators)
1. “Point Shaving in the NBA” – Justin Wolfers & Joseph Price (2007) 2. Foul Disparity Analyses (2002 WCF Game 6)
Mark Cuban (Mavs owner): “You don't have to fix a game. You just have to put the right official in the right place.” Tim Donaghy: “The NBA had certain outcomes it preferred. My mistake was in thinking I was the only one noticing.”
The NBA is less real than the WWE. At least to be Champion in the WWE you must , in reality , be #1 in the minds of the fans.
The Luka trade was comedy gold. The trade was completed when the NBA handed Dallas the #1 over all pick. The Raptors get the overall #1 one time just when an Italian is the #1 prospect while the Raptors are run by Italians and could show him off to a city filled with italians. LOL. It was smart marketing by the NBA.
It’s a very 0 or 100% binary way of looking at things. Everybody has lied at some point of their life, ergo they’re not 100% truthful, ergo they’re all basically the same. Someone tells a white lie here and there, well they’re the same as a habitual bullshitter.
So too sport. Some bending of rules, or shady behaviour is exactly the same as match fixing or doping.
Never mind that most sports fans are only invested due to at least some sense of competitive glory underpinning everything. That what we’re watching maybe isn’t 100% fair in every possible sense, but that it is a real snapshot into individuals or teams trying to win.
Match fixing completely destroys that. To a degree not even doping does, much less the authorities doing shady things does. The second a perception develops that one isn’t watching real competition (even if it’s uneven), is the second a sport becomes unviable as a concern for many people.
There’s a hierarchy. Lance Armstrong doped. You had widespread doping though, and an ‘omerta’ covering it up. It’s certainly not ideal, don’t get me wrong there! But it wasn’t fixed.
Have you actually read your Amazon linked book on soccer scandals?
On June 05 2025 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: nice to see this stuff get exposed. Kudos to Jim for coming clean.
On June 06 2025 02:32 MrIronGolem27 wrote:
On June 06 2025 02:05 Pelloth99 wrote:
On June 05 2025 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: nice to see this stuff get exposed. Kudos to Jim for coming clean.
yes kudos to a matchfixing cunt who conveniently decided to stop matchfixing and come "clean" right after announcing he will no longer play. This is the hero we needed, hooray. Maybe you would be so kind and organize a farewell showmatch to honor this Chinese legends rich career ?
This is your first message on the forums, did you really make an account just to say this?
We can commend Jim's doing the right thing here by bringing forth solid evidence for Firefly's involvement in matchfixing while simultaneously condemning his own actions and barring him from competition as well (though it seems he didn't want to play anymore, anyway).
shrug, I give Jim zero credit for only coming clean because he spitefully wanted to bring someone else down with him
ya'll prolly call guys who strike plea deals with prosecutors heroes
"kudos" to "hero" is a big leap. SC2 video game fixing and crimes requiring plea deals and prosecutors is also another big leap. the word "prolly" is doing a lot of work here.
On June 06 2025 02:32 MrIronGolem27 wrote:
On June 06 2025 02:05 Pelloth99 wrote:
On June 05 2025 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: nice to see this stuff get exposed. Kudos to Jim for coming clean.
yes kudos to a matchfixing cunt who conveniently decided to stop matchfixing and come "clean" right after announcing he will no longer play. This is the hero we needed, hooray. Maybe you would be so kind and organize a farewell showmatch to honor this Chinese legends rich career ?
This is your first message on the forums, did you really make an account just to say this?
We can commend Jim's doing the right thing here by bringing forth solid evidence for Firefly's involvement in matchfixing while simultaneously condemning his own actions and barring him from competition as well (though it seems he didn't want to play anymore, anyway).
true. All kinds of stuff, including competitive SC2, is fixed. At this point the NBA is about as real as the WWE. The Mavericks traded Doncic for what again? Oh, for the 1st over all pick even though they only had a 1.9% shot at it.. Got it.
Toronto has more Italians than any city in NA other than NY. In 2006, the Toronto NBA team was run by an Italian family. The best 18 year old Italian in history was about to go #1 in the draft and Toronto had a 4% chance of winning the #1 pick in the draft lottery. What a miracle... they got it.
The bottom line is: most adults are liars.
What a ridiculous analogy.
Take off the tinfoil hat. The NBA lottery is not fixed. You do know the two examples you listed are not that statistically improbable right? Most of the time the winner of the draft lottery is in the top 5 as far as “chance” to win. Of course once in a while a team with low odds will win.. that’s how odds work.
Quoting 2025 and 2008, 17 years apart basically counters your argument.
The Bulls had a 1.7% chance and got the greatest chicago high school player in league history as their #1 pick. I can go on and on. no tinfoil hat needed. all you have to do is read and use a bit of logic. The NBA is super shady. The draft is just 1 aspect. Jordan mysteriously decides to start riding buses and playing minor league baseball in the prime of his career?
Gaming the Game by Sean Patrick Griffin Personal Foul by Tim Donaghy Untold: Operation Flagrant Foul (Netflix, 2022) NBA’s Dirty Secret (YouTube, various creators)
1. “Point Shaving in the NBA” – Justin Wolfers & Joseph Price (2007) 2. Foul Disparity Analyses (2002 WCF Game 6)
Mark Cuban (Mavs owner): “You don't have to fix a game. You just have to put the right official in the right place.” Tim Donaghy: “The NBA had certain outcomes it preferred. My mistake was in thinking I was the only one noticing.”
The NBA is less real than the WWE. At least to be Champion in the WWE you must , in reality , be #1 in the minds of the fans.
The Luka trade was comedy gold. The trade was completed when the NBA handed Dallas the #1 over all pick. The Raptors get the overall #1 one time just when an Italian is the #1 prospect while the Raptors are run by Italians and could show him off to a city filled with italians. LOL. It was smart marketing by the NBA.
For a full discussion on the shady NBA.. just visit hte NBA thread.
As someone who watched the Kings-Lakers series in real-time back in the 2002 WCF, you can't tell me that sport outcomes aren't, at the very least, occasionally influenced by factors outside of the athletic play. Not that hard to imagine when there's literally hundreds of millions or billions of dollars at stake these days.
On June 12 2025 07:41 WombaT wrote: What on Earth are you talking about Jimmy?
your comment on Tim Donaghy is what?
On June 12 2025 07:41 WombaT wrote: So too sport. Some bending of rules, or shady behaviour is exactly the same as match fixing or doping.
you think there was "some doping" in MLB in the 90s? i'd say it changed the direction of the sport. Lenny Dyskstra in 1986 is a singles hitter that weighs maybe 160. Cut to 1993, and Lenny is 230 lbs and hitting opposite field 400 foot home runs. Barry Bonds? A 1991 base stealing speedster who looked exactly like his father Bobby. By 1998, he does not even look like the same guy.
On June 12 2025 07:41 WombaT wrote: So too sport. Some bending of rules, or shady behaviour is exactly the same as match fixing or doping.
you think there was "some doping" in MLB in the 90s? i'd say it changed the direction of the sport. Lenny Dyskstra in 1986 is a singles hitter that weighs maybe 160. Cut to 1993, and Lenny is 230 lbs and hitting opposite field 400 foot home runs. Barry Bonds? A 1991 base stealing speedster who looked exactly like his father Bobby. By 1998, he does not even look like the same guy.
On June 09 2025 18:09 johnnyh123 wrote: Match-fixing is kind of expected in the Chinese SC2 scene though. Chinese sports/competitions have always been riddled with match-fixing scandals. Like soccer/football just a few months ago, involving more than 40 clubs over 120 matches. The Chinese FA banned 38 soccer players for life: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/10/sport/china-soccer-match-fixing-intl-hnk . It feels like there are more of these match-fixing scandals reported every few years in China.
These match-fixing and scandals are partially responsible for the terrible performance of their national team, currently ranked #94 in the world, behind the likes of Syria (in an ongoing civil war) and Curacao (population 150k).
Match-fixing is inevitable in all pro sports where the player salaries are low enough for the risk/reward to be worth it to them. That's basically every league that's not American big-four or the biggest soccer leagues in the world.
When I did a little research regarding Life, I found that basically every major Korean sport has had some kind of match-fixing or spot-fixing scandal in the past. If you do just a little research, you find that it's much more prevalent that you'd want to believe as a fan.
That doesn't necessarily mean that the match-fixing in every league is so rampant that it ruins the integrity of the sport. Going back to the Korean leagues I looked up, it at least seemed to me that it was more isolated incidents than pervasive match-fixing going on all the time. But when you think about salaries and incentives in a lot of these leagues, it's just very realistic that some number of players will be tempted with the opportunity.
Getting back on topic. My point Jimmy wasn’t that other forms of cheating don’t happen, but that widespread fixing
I wonder how much is cultural in some way, or just structural in ways influenced by culture.
I’m not naive, the stereotypical British sense of fair play is often just that, a stereotype. Some will fix, but quite often it’s in isolation, least from cases I’ve encountered. I think for those who do decide to cross that threshold to begin with, they think it’s too big a risk to recruit.
With what details we have in SC2, or I’ll bring in snooker, it does seem a bit different. There’s a bunch all doing it as a team, sometimes it’s something of an open secret for others. You get a few British players copping match fixing bans, who were seemingly doing it in isolation. You get a whole bunch of Chinese players banned in a bloc, who were all doing it together.
You get more instances of ‘insider betting’, i.e. you know you’re injured in advance so put bets accordingly. Or a transfer you know about in advance. Fixing, less so. Although I imagine it’s more common than I’d like.
From what I’ve heard people say, for all the bullshit around it, matchday maintains its purity. Testing your skills against others, in front of crowds, it’s what folks dreamed of as kids.
Or, put another way, it’s one thing to screw the bookmakers over, it’s another whole step to betray the sport itself as it were. From some of the logs translated here, there doesn’t seem much consideration for the health of SC from what I’ve read.
I wonder too if simply the legal status of betting plays a huge part. If it’s legal and legitimate, and regulated, there’s less space for fixer types to begin with. I mean you’d have far fewer drug dealers if drugs were legally distributed.
It’s that old ‘can you really say you’re 100% faithful if nobody else has ever shown an interest?’ thing.
Mostly pondering, no real conclusions but sticking it out there. Be interested to hear the thoughts of others more familiar
On June 05 2025 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: nice to see this stuff get exposed. Kudos to Jim for coming clean.
On June 06 2025 02:32 MrIronGolem27 wrote:
On June 06 2025 02:05 Pelloth99 wrote:
On June 05 2025 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: nice to see this stuff get exposed. Kudos to Jim for coming clean.
yes kudos to a matchfixing cunt who conveniently decided to stop matchfixing and come "clean" right after announcing he will no longer play. This is the hero we needed, hooray. Maybe you would be so kind and organize a farewell showmatch to honor this Chinese legends rich career ?
This is your first message on the forums, did you really make an account just to say this?
We can commend Jim's doing the right thing here by bringing forth solid evidence for Firefly's involvement in matchfixing while simultaneously condemning his own actions and barring him from competition as well (though it seems he didn't want to play anymore, anyway).
shrug, I give Jim zero credit for only coming clean because he spitefully wanted to bring someone else down with him
ya'll prolly call guys who strike plea deals with prosecutors heroes
"kudos" to "hero" is a big leap. SC2 video game fixing and crimes requiring plea deals and prosecutors is also another big leap. the word "prolly" is doing a lot of work here.
On June 06 2025 02:32 MrIronGolem27 wrote:
On June 06 2025 02:05 Pelloth99 wrote:
On June 05 2025 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: nice to see this stuff get exposed. Kudos to Jim for coming clean.
yes kudos to a matchfixing cunt who conveniently decided to stop matchfixing and come "clean" right after announcing he will no longer play. This is the hero we needed, hooray. Maybe you would be so kind and organize a farewell showmatch to honor this Chinese legends rich career ?
This is your first message on the forums, did you really make an account just to say this?
We can commend Jim's doing the right thing here by bringing forth solid evidence for Firefly's involvement in matchfixing while simultaneously condemning his own actions and barring him from competition as well (though it seems he didn't want to play anymore, anyway).
true. All kinds of stuff, including competitive SC2, is fixed. At this point the NBA is about as real as the WWE. The Mavericks traded Doncic for what again? Oh, for the 1st over all pick even though they only had a 1.9% shot at it.. Got it.
Toronto has more Italians than any city in NA other than NY. In 2006, the Toronto NBA team was run by an Italian family. The best 18 year old Italian in history was about to go #1 in the draft and Toronto had a 4% chance of winning the #1 pick in the draft lottery. What a miracle... they got it.
The bottom line is: most adults are liars.
What a ridiculous analogy.
Take off the tinfoil hat. The NBA lottery is not fixed. You do know the two examples you listed are not that statistically improbable right? Most of the time the winner of the draft lottery is in the top 5 as far as “chance” to win. Of course once in a while a team with low odds will win.. that’s how odds work.
Quoting 2025 and 2008, 17 years apart basically counters your argument.
The Bulls had a 1.7% chance and got the greatest chicago high school player in league history as their #1 pick. I can go on and on. no tinfoil hat needed. all you have to do is read and use a bit of logic. The NBA is super shady. The draft is just 1 aspect. Jordan mysteriously decides to start riding buses and playing minor league baseball in the prime of his career?
Gaming the Game by Sean Patrick Griffin Personal Foul by Tim Donaghy Untold: Operation Flagrant Foul (Netflix, 2022) NBA’s Dirty Secret (YouTube, various creators)
1. “Point Shaving in the NBA” – Justin Wolfers & Joseph Price (2007) 2. Foul Disparity Analyses (2002 WCF Game 6)
Mark Cuban (Mavs owner): “You don't have to fix a game. You just have to put the right official in the right place.” Tim Donaghy: “The NBA had certain outcomes it preferred. My mistake was in thinking I was the only one noticing.”
The NBA is less real than the WWE. At least to be Champion in the WWE you must , in reality , be #1 in the minds of the fans.
The Luka trade was comedy gold. The trade was completed when the NBA handed Dallas the #1 over all pick. The Raptors get the overall #1 one time just when an Italian is the #1 prospect while the Raptors are run by Italians and could show him off to a city filled with italians. LOL. It was smart marketing by the NBA.
For a full discussion on the shady NBA.. just visit hte NBA thread.
How did you type this and not feel embarrassed?
Look up confirmation bias. What about the hundreds of drafts where the most preferred outcome didn’t occur? You think they wanted Wemby going to one of the smallest markets in the NBA?
If they wanted to rig the draft they would just make the percentages almost identical and no one would question it. They set the rules. Absolutely one of the worst takes I’ve ever read.
On June 05 2025 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: nice to see this stuff get exposed. Kudos to Jim for coming clean.
On June 06 2025 02:32 MrIronGolem27 wrote:
On June 06 2025 02:05 Pelloth99 wrote:
On June 05 2025 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: nice to see this stuff get exposed. Kudos to Jim for coming clean.
yes kudos to a matchfixing cunt who conveniently decided to stop matchfixing and come "clean" right after announcing he will no longer play. This is the hero we needed, hooray. Maybe you would be so kind and organize a farewell showmatch to honor this Chinese legends rich career ?
This is your first message on the forums, did you really make an account just to say this?
We can commend Jim's doing the right thing here by bringing forth solid evidence for Firefly's involvement in matchfixing while simultaneously condemning his own actions and barring him from competition as well (though it seems he didn't want to play anymore, anyway).
shrug, I give Jim zero credit for only coming clean because he spitefully wanted to bring someone else down with him
ya'll prolly call guys who strike plea deals with prosecutors heroes
"kudos" to "hero" is a big leap. SC2 video game fixing and crimes requiring plea deals and prosecutors is also another big leap. the word "prolly" is doing a lot of work here.
On June 06 2025 02:32 MrIronGolem27 wrote:
On June 06 2025 02:05 Pelloth99 wrote:
On June 05 2025 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: nice to see this stuff get exposed. Kudos to Jim for coming clean.
yes kudos to a matchfixing cunt who conveniently decided to stop matchfixing and come "clean" right after announcing he will no longer play. This is the hero we needed, hooray. Maybe you would be so kind and organize a farewell showmatch to honor this Chinese legends rich career ?
This is your first message on the forums, did you really make an account just to say this?
We can commend Jim's doing the right thing here by bringing forth solid evidence for Firefly's involvement in matchfixing while simultaneously condemning his own actions and barring him from competition as well (though it seems he didn't want to play anymore, anyway).
true. All kinds of stuff, including competitive SC2, is fixed. At this point the NBA is about as real as the WWE. The Mavericks traded Doncic for what again? Oh, for the 1st over all pick even though they only had a 1.9% shot at it.. Got it.
Toronto has more Italians than any city in NA other than NY. In 2006, the Toronto NBA team was run by an Italian family. The best 18 year old Italian in history was about to go #1 in the draft and Toronto had a 4% chance of winning the #1 pick in the draft lottery. What a miracle... they got it.
The bottom line is: most adults are liars.
What a ridiculous analogy.
Take off the tinfoil hat. The NBA lottery is not fixed. You do know the two examples you listed are not that statistically improbable right? Most of the time the winner of the draft lottery is in the top 5 as far as “chance” to win. Of course once in a while a team with low odds will win.. that’s how odds work.
Quoting 2025 and 2008, 17 years apart basically counters your argument.
The Bulls had a 1.7% chance and got the greatest chicago high school player in league history as their #1 pick. I can go on and on. no tinfoil hat needed. all you have to do is read and use a bit of logic. The NBA is super shady. The draft is just 1 aspect. Jordan mysteriously decides to start riding buses and playing minor league baseball in the prime of his career?
Gaming the Game by Sean Patrick Griffin Personal Foul by Tim Donaghy Untold: Operation Flagrant Foul (Netflix, 2022) NBA’s Dirty Secret (YouTube, various creators)
1. “Point Shaving in the NBA” – Justin Wolfers & Joseph Price (2007) 2. Foul Disparity Analyses (2002 WCF Game 6)
Mark Cuban (Mavs owner): “You don't have to fix a game. You just have to put the right official in the right place.” Tim Donaghy: “The NBA had certain outcomes it preferred. My mistake was in thinking I was the only one noticing.”
The NBA is less real than the WWE. At least to be Champion in the WWE you must , in reality , be #1 in the minds of the fans.
The Luka trade was comedy gold. The trade was completed when the NBA handed Dallas the #1 over all pick. The Raptors get the overall #1 one time just when an Italian is the #1 prospect while the Raptors are run by Italians and could show him off to a city filled with italians. LOL. It was smart marketing by the NBA.
For a full discussion on the shady NBA.. just visit hte NBA thread.
How did you type this and not feel embarrassed?
Look up confirmation bias. What about the hundreds of drafts where the most preferred outcome didn’t occur? You think they wanted Wemby going to one of the smallest markets in the NBA?
If they wanted to rig the draft they would just make the percentages almost identical and no one would question it. They set the rules. Absolutely one of the worst takes I’ve ever read.
On June 09 2025 18:09 johnnyh123 wrote: Match-fixing is kind of expected in the Chinese SC2 scene though. Chinese sports/competitions have always been riddled with match-fixing scandals. Like soccer/football just a few months ago, involving more than 40 clubs over 120 matches. The Chinese FA banned 38 soccer players for life: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/10/sport/china-soccer-match-fixing-intl-hnk . It feels like there are more of these match-fixing scandals reported every few years in China.
These match-fixing and scandals are partially responsible for the terrible performance of their national team, currently ranked #94 in the world, behind the likes of Syria (in an ongoing civil war) and Curacao (population 150k).
Match-fixing is inevitable in all pro sports where the player salaries are low enough for the risk/reward to be worth it to them. That's basically every league that's not American big-four or the biggest soccer leagues in the world.
When I did a little research regarding Life, I found that basically every major Korean sport has had some kind of match-fixing or spot-fixing scandal in the past. If you do just a little research, you find that it's much more prevalent that you'd want to believe as a fan.
That doesn't necessarily mean that the match-fixing in every league is so rampant that it ruins the integrity of the sport. Going back to the Korean leagues I looked up, it at least seemed to me that it was more isolated incidents than pervasive match-fixing going on all the time. But when you think about salaries and incentives in a lot of these leagues, it's just very realistic that some number of players will be tempted with the opportunity.
Getting back on topic. My point Jimmy wasn’t that other forms of cheating don’t happen, but that widespread fixing
I wonder how much is cultural in some way, or just structural in ways influenced by culture.
I’m not naive, the stereotypical British sense of fair play is often just that, a stereotype. Some will fix, but quite often it’s in isolation, least from cases I’ve encountered. I think for those who do decide to cross that threshold to begin with, they think it’s too big a risk to recruit.
With what details we have in SC2, or I’ll bring in snooker, it does seem a bit different. There’s a bunch all doing it as a team, sometimes it’s something of an open secret for others. You get a few British players copping match fixing bans, who were seemingly doing it in isolation. You get a whole bunch of Chinese players banned in a bloc, who were all doing it together.
You get more instances of ‘insider betting’, i.e. you know you’re injured in advance so put bets accordingly. Or a transfer you know about in advance. Fixing, less so. Although I imagine it’s more common than I’d like.
From what I’ve heard people say, for all the bullshit around it, matchday maintains its purity. Testing your skills against others, in front of crowds, it’s what folks dreamed of as kids.
Or, put another way, it’s one thing to screw the bookmakers over, it’s another whole step to betray the sport itself as it were. From some of the logs translated here, there doesn’t seem much consideration for the health of SC from what I’ve read.
I wonder too if simply the legal status of betting plays a huge part. If it’s legal and legitimate, and regulated, there’s less space for fixer types to begin with. I mean you’d have far fewer drug dealers if drugs were legally distributed.
It’s that old ‘can you really say you’re 100% faithful if nobody else has ever shown an interest?’ thing.
Mostly pondering, no real conclusions but sticking it out there. Be interested to hear the thoughts of others more familiar
Look up Richard Lewis , the esport journalist. He's covered lots of scandals for esport over the years. A British chap who have became jaded now, myself too in some sense. There's just economic incentive for the young kids to fix matches everywhere on the planet.
One of my friend who was playing for tier 2 league of legend EU team in past year or two told me they were fixing the scrims .... or practice matches, but the pond was so small, no one cared. If they are fixing practice matches I donno what they wouldn't fix, anything the bookies can get their hands on perhaps. He can accurately tell me which game goes to who..... in practice.
And make no mistake, this is just another round of how soccer was professionalized or any big sports, they all have scandals. And according to Richard Lewis, and Thorinn , that most sports , Esports are funded by gambling betting sites / sponsors.
And League of Legends finally giving API to the bookies this year if I recall correctly for NA games.
Anyway, it doesn't make the match fixing any more better, just really stinks, but what can you do. If you are put in the players shoes, you cannot win, part of your competitive drive tell you it's hard to be #1, but you are top #50~100, you cannot advance anymore, there's not enough money to make for you to be having a good life after esport. And the list goes on, and if you know anything about Chinese culture, it's very monetary and materialized, especially no faith involved, and the unemployment rate is sky high. It's rather a complexed situation tbh.
I wish esports was all about being the best in the purest form, and entertainment can be good, but hey, no one wants to pay for the broadcast much .....? I think when GSL was sub based it was good, I don't remember why they stopped.
I think Esport fan at large don't want to pay for anything, I think SC/SC2 fan has a much better record on these things.
Heck, I don't know, I don't think any of these things.
And I don't think poker is for everyone........ maybe Jim isn't that smart if the allegation has to do with gamble and losing money.
https://ggpoker.com/ggteam/tony-lin/ this guy is my friend, he frequently runs into Slayer_Boxer and Yellow at poker events. These guys seems to be doing well. Like winning world poker championship and stuff. Not to mention Elky and Rekrul if anyone remember those dudes from brood war xD
Maybe they thought SC skill can transfer to poker wants to take a stab but has no talent for it. There were much more bluffing going on early SC SC2, nowadays the game feels much more like a rythm music game to see who can hit the best build order timing. I don't personally watch the tournament games anymore.
According to Richard Lewis that Korean SC SC2 scene is riddled with match fixing problems the entire time, on one occasion he mentioned a statistic professional friend of his said the odds in these matches results are impossible. LOL
Granted, I don't have any hard evidence of these things, but given Richard's pedigree I don't think he says those as random jokes.
I just looked at the translation and it is just a confession by Jim, so I was thinking, okay, so Jim is a match fixer. That's a pity, but he was really only ever known as a cannon rusher even at his peak. What evidence is there that anyone else has done anything wrong? He is making accusations but there is no evidence. But it seems that elsewhere there is evidence. It is also notable that there is no evidence that Firefly won the Asia qualifier through cheating, but obviously if he benefited in other ways, or even if he didn't, match fixing is a scourge on the game, or any game, so needs to be stopped. I am saddened, though, as China's rise in interest in StarCraft II was part of what was keeping it going. I hope that this does not reflect poorly on Chinese StarCraft as a country. But we need to find all who are involved in anything at all and stamp it out. I feel like this might be just the beginning. Match fixing is rarely just 1 or 2 players. If this is real, it's likely a lot more.
On June 15 2025 23:27 Blissyu2 wrote: I just looked at the translation and it is just a confession by Jim, so I was thinking, okay, so Jim is a match fixer. That's a pity, but he was really only ever known as a cannon rusher even at his peak. What evidence is there that anyone else has done anything wrong? He is making accusations but there is no evidence. But it seems that elsewhere there is evidence. It is also notable that there is no evidence that Firefly won the Asia qualifier through cheating, but obviously if he benefited in other ways, or even if he didn't, match fixing is a scourge on the game, or any game, so needs to be stopped. I am saddened, though, as China's rise in interest in StarCraft II was part of what was keeping it going. I hope that this does not reflect poorly on Chinese StarCraft as a country. But we need to find all who are involved in anything at all and stamp it out. I feel like this might be just the beginning. Match fixing is rarely just 1 or 2 players. If this is real, it's likely a lot more.
Jim provided bank transfer statements that basically exactly corresponded to alleged fixed matches. That got reposted earlier in this thread.
I dunno what more evidence one can provide.
Doesn’t really matter if he won the qualifier legitimately, which he probably did. Life was up there in the most talented players to ever touch the game and he’s permabanned.
For me him match fixing doesn’t put any of his achievements in the spotlight, but any time he lost a game one would have him as a favourite in, was that an upset or a fix? That’s the whole scourge of match fixing, and why in sports if it becomes prevalent it destroys everything. Way more than any other kind of cheating.
Sjow randomly beating Life at a Dreamhack is one of the all-time great upsets. It has like zero resonance if Life is a known match fixer.
I’m not alleging that that particular match was fixed at all, but if the perception develops it makes matches effectively meaningless
EPT
