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United States1961 Posts
On December 23 2024 21:52 CicadaSC wrote:
I would say it's not looking good. Let's look at some recent information pointing in that direction.
Crank: states he is 99% sure SC2 will not be in EWC, as chess will be the "strategy" replacement. He also says that many korean players will retire as a result if it is not announced.
World Team League: Shares a similar sentiment and has been vocal on twitter pleading for EWC to incorporate SC2 and chess is not a fitting replacement.
Oliveira: Feeling uncertainty, contemplating retirement, only still competing in Olimoleague finals because crank begged him.
soO: retires.
Dark: Dropped from Talon Esports (Dec. 10th), who recruited him specifically for EWC, in hopes of acquiring club points.
Just a heads up, soO's retirement is more about him enjoying BW (plus other personal choices) than whatever concerns he might have about the future of StarCraft II. The other issues you raised stand, but I wouldn't read into soO's situation the same way.
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On December 24 2024 03:19 Mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2024 21:52 CicadaSC wrote:
I would say it's not looking good. Let's look at some recent information pointing in that direction.
Crank: states he is 99% sure SC2 will not be in EWC, as chess will be the "strategy" replacement. He also says that many korean players will retire as a result if it is not announced.
World Team League: Shares a similar sentiment and has been vocal on twitter pleading for EWC to incorporate SC2 and chess is not a fitting replacement.
Oliveira: Feeling uncertainty, contemplating retirement, only still competing in Olimoleague finals because crank begged him.
soO: retires.
Dark: Dropped from Talon Esports (Dec. 10th), who recruited him specifically for EWC, in hopes of acquiring club points.
Just a heads up, soO's retirement is more about him enjoying BW (plus other personal choices) than whatever concerns he might have about the future of StarCraft II. The other issues you raised stand, but I wouldn't read into soO's situation the same way.
Clearly, soO does not care about the guaranteed money of streaming BW (total donations of about a total 10 million USD a year) and the 5million so far from daily proleagues within 2 years.
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Northern Ireland27402 Posts
On December 24 2024 11:31 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2024 03:19 Mizenhauer wrote:On December 23 2024 21:52 CicadaSC wrote:
I would say it's not looking good. Let's look at some recent information pointing in that direction.
Crank: states he is 99% sure SC2 will not be in EWC, as chess will be the "strategy" replacement. He also says that many korean players will retire as a result if it is not announced.
World Team League: Shares a similar sentiment and has been vocal on twitter pleading for EWC to incorporate SC2 and chess is not a fitting replacement.
Oliveira: Feeling uncertainty, contemplating retirement, only still competing in Olimoleague finals because crank begged him.
soO: retires.
Dark: Dropped from Talon Esports (Dec. 10th), who recruited him specifically for EWC, in hopes of acquiring club points.
Just a heads up, soO's retirement is more about him enjoying BW (plus other personal choices) than whatever concerns he might have about the future of StarCraft II. The other issues you raised stand, but I wouldn't read into soO's situation the same way. Clearly, soO does not care about the guaranteed money of streaming BW (total donations of about a total 10 million USD a year) and the 5million so far from daily proleagues within 2 years.
How guaranteed is it for soO though?
Hey people make plenty of dough on Onlyfans, I highly doubt I would if I popped on there.
We get it, you don’t like SC2 and want to shit on it at every opportunity, great. You do you.
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On December 24 2024 11:42 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2024 11:31 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On December 24 2024 03:19 Mizenhauer wrote:On December 23 2024 21:52 CicadaSC wrote:
I would say it's not looking good. Let's look at some recent information pointing in that direction.
Crank: states he is 99% sure SC2 will not be in EWC, as chess will be the "strategy" replacement. He also says that many korean players will retire as a result if it is not announced.
World Team League: Shares a similar sentiment and has been vocal on twitter pleading for EWC to incorporate SC2 and chess is not a fitting replacement.
Oliveira: Feeling uncertainty, contemplating retirement, only still competing in Olimoleague finals because crank begged him.
soO: retires.
Dark: Dropped from Talon Esports (Dec. 10th), who recruited him specifically for EWC, in hopes of acquiring club points.
Just a heads up, soO's retirement is more about him enjoying BW (plus other personal choices) than whatever concerns he might have about the future of StarCraft II. The other issues you raised stand, but I wouldn't read into soO's situation the same way. Clearly, soO does not care about the guaranteed money of streaming BW (total donations of about a total 10 million USD a year) and the 5million so far from daily proleagues within 2 years. How guaranteed is it for soO though? Hey people make plenty of dough on Onlyfans, I highly doubt I would if I popped on there. We get it, you don’t like SC2 and want to shit on it at every opportunity, great. You do you.
Haven't you learned by now that BW is an endless pit of money that makes everyone with 7 viewers a millionaire in two days?
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Northern Ireland27402 Posts
On December 24 2024 15:26 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2024 11:42 WombaT wrote:On December 24 2024 11:31 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On December 24 2024 03:19 Mizenhauer wrote:On December 23 2024 21:52 CicadaSC wrote:
I would say it's not looking good. Let's look at some recent information pointing in that direction.
Crank: states he is 99% sure SC2 will not be in EWC, as chess will be the "strategy" replacement. He also says that many korean players will retire as a result if it is not announced.
World Team League: Shares a similar sentiment and has been vocal on twitter pleading for EWC to incorporate SC2 and chess is not a fitting replacement.
Oliveira: Feeling uncertainty, contemplating retirement, only still competing in Olimoleague finals because crank begged him.
soO: retires.
Dark: Dropped from Talon Esports (Dec. 10th), who recruited him specifically for EWC, in hopes of acquiring club points.
Just a heads up, soO's retirement is more about him enjoying BW (plus other personal choices) than whatever concerns he might have about the future of StarCraft II. The other issues you raised stand, but I wouldn't read into soO's situation the same way. Clearly, soO does not care about the guaranteed money of streaming BW (total donations of about a total 10 million USD a year) and the 5million so far from daily proleagues within 2 years. How guaranteed is it for soO though? Hey people make plenty of dough on Onlyfans, I highly doubt I would if I popped on there. We get it, you don’t like SC2 and want to shit on it at every opportunity, great. You do you. Haven't you learned by now that BW is an endless pit of money that makes everyone with 7 viewers a millionaire in two days?
I wanted to keep it quiet so I could continue to live the millionaire life
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United States1961 Posts
On December 24 2024 11:31 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2024 03:19 Mizenhauer wrote:On December 23 2024 21:52 CicadaSC wrote:
I would say it's not looking good. Let's look at some recent information pointing in that direction.
Crank: states he is 99% sure SC2 will not be in EWC, as chess will be the "strategy" replacement. He also says that many korean players will retire as a result if it is not announced.
World Team League: Shares a similar sentiment and has been vocal on twitter pleading for EWC to incorporate SC2 and chess is not a fitting replacement.
Oliveira: Feeling uncertainty, contemplating retirement, only still competing in Olimoleague finals because crank begged him.
soO: retires.
Dark: Dropped from Talon Esports (Dec. 10th), who recruited him specifically for EWC, in hopes of acquiring club points.
Just a heads up, soO's retirement is more about him enjoying BW (plus other personal choices) than whatever concerns he might have about the future of StarCraft II. The other issues you raised stand, but I wouldn't read into soO's situation the same way. Clearly, soO does not care about the guaranteed money of streaming BW (total donations of about a total 10 million USD a year) and the 5million so far from daily proleagues within 2 years.
Tell yourself whatever you like to make sure it fits your weird bw agenda.
zzzzzzzzzzz
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On December 24 2024 16:19 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2024 15:26 Balnazza wrote:On December 24 2024 11:42 WombaT wrote:On December 24 2024 11:31 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On December 24 2024 03:19 Mizenhauer wrote:On December 23 2024 21:52 CicadaSC wrote:
I would say it's not looking good. Let's look at some recent information pointing in that direction.
Crank: states he is 99% sure SC2 will not be in EWC, as chess will be the "strategy" replacement. He also says that many korean players will retire as a result if it is not announced.
World Team League: Shares a similar sentiment and has been vocal on twitter pleading for EWC to incorporate SC2 and chess is not a fitting replacement.
Oliveira: Feeling uncertainty, contemplating retirement, only still competing in Olimoleague finals because crank begged him.
soO: retires.
Dark: Dropped from Talon Esports (Dec. 10th), who recruited him specifically for EWC, in hopes of acquiring club points.
Just a heads up, soO's retirement is more about him enjoying BW (plus other personal choices) than whatever concerns he might have about the future of StarCraft II. The other issues you raised stand, but I wouldn't read into soO's situation the same way. Clearly, soO does not care about the guaranteed money of streaming BW (total donations of about a total 10 million USD a year) and the 5million so far from daily proleagues within 2 years. How guaranteed is it for soO though? Hey people make plenty of dough on Onlyfans, I highly doubt I would if I popped on there. We get it, you don’t like SC2 and want to shit on it at every opportunity, great. You do you. Haven't you learned by now that BW is an endless pit of money that makes everyone with 7 viewers a millionaire in two days? I wanted to keep it quiet so I could continue to live the millionaire life
LOL nice nice
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This is a complete mess. We really haven't had any leaks yet regarding what's happening? Our community leaders don't have an inside scoop?
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On December 24 2024 15:26 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2024 11:42 WombaT wrote:On December 24 2024 11:31 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On December 24 2024 03:19 Mizenhauer wrote:On December 23 2024 21:52 CicadaSC wrote:
I would say it's not looking good. Let's look at some recent information pointing in that direction.
Crank: states he is 99% sure SC2 will not be in EWC, as chess will be the "strategy" replacement. He also says that many korean players will retire as a result if it is not announced.
World Team League: Shares a similar sentiment and has been vocal on twitter pleading for EWC to incorporate SC2 and chess is not a fitting replacement.
Oliveira: Feeling uncertainty, contemplating retirement, only still competing in Olimoleague finals because crank begged him.
soO: retires.
Dark: Dropped from Talon Esports (Dec. 10th), who recruited him specifically for EWC, in hopes of acquiring club points.
Just a heads up, soO's retirement is more about him enjoying BW (plus other personal choices) than whatever concerns he might have about the future of StarCraft II. The other issues you raised stand, but I wouldn't read into soO's situation the same way. Clearly, soO does not care about the guaranteed money of streaming BW (total donations of about a total 10 million USD a year) and the 5million so far from daily proleagues within 2 years. How guaranteed is it for soO though? Hey people make plenty of dough on Onlyfans, I highly doubt I would if I popped on there. We get it, you don’t like SC2 and want to shit on it at every opportunity, great. You do you. Haven't you learned by now that BW is an endless pit of money that makes everyone with 7 viewers a millionaire in two days?
Funny you say that https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/616880-2023q3-top100-balloon-donation-for-all-sc1-and-2-bjs
In 2023 on Afreeca, the top 250 BW streamer, Saber who has like 7 viewers, made 15k USD in 9 months in balloon donation, about 3 times that of whole SC2 made in balloon donations combined (including GSL).
TY, the top SC2 streamer made 3.7k in 9 months. The second made a WHOOPING 268 dollars in 9 months. Note that TY already streamed BW in 2023, so is he really a SC2 streamer?
Soo made 20 dollars in 9 months in donation.
Meanwhile, the top 10 is above 300k in 9 months.
But please, move the goal posts even more only to get crushed with facts and logic
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 25 2024 23:59 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2024 15:26 Balnazza wrote:On December 24 2024 11:42 WombaT wrote:On December 24 2024 11:31 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On December 24 2024 03:19 Mizenhauer wrote:On December 23 2024 21:52 CicadaSC wrote:
I would say it's not looking good. Let's look at some recent information pointing in that direction.
Crank: states he is 99% sure SC2 will not be in EWC, as chess will be the "strategy" replacement. He also says that many korean players will retire as a result if it is not announced.
World Team League: Shares a similar sentiment and has been vocal on twitter pleading for EWC to incorporate SC2 and chess is not a fitting replacement.
Oliveira: Feeling uncertainty, contemplating retirement, only still competing in Olimoleague finals because crank begged him.
soO: retires.
Dark: Dropped from Talon Esports (Dec. 10th), who recruited him specifically for EWC, in hopes of acquiring club points.
Just a heads up, soO's retirement is more about him enjoying BW (plus other personal choices) than whatever concerns he might have about the future of StarCraft II. The other issues you raised stand, but I wouldn't read into soO's situation the same way. Clearly, soO does not care about the guaranteed money of streaming BW (total donations of about a total 10 million USD a year) and the 5million so far from daily proleagues within 2 years. How guaranteed is it for soO though? Hey people make plenty of dough on Onlyfans, I highly doubt I would if I popped on there. We get it, you don’t like SC2 and want to shit on it at every opportunity, great. You do you. Haven't you learned by now that BW is an endless pit of money that makes everyone with 7 viewers a millionaire in two days? Funny you say that https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/616880-2023q3-top100-balloon-donation-for-all-sc1-and-2-bjsIn 2023 on Afreeca, the top 250 BW streamer, Saber who has like 7 viewers, made 15k USD in 9 months in balloon donation, about 3 times that of whole SC2 made in balloon donations combined (including GSL). TY, the top SC2 streamer made 3.7k in 9 months. The second made a WHOOPING 268 dollars in 9 months. Note that TY already streamed BW in 2023, so is he really a SC2 streamer? Soo made 20 dollars in 9 months in donation. Meanwhile, the top 10 is above 300k in 9 months. But please, move the goal posts even more only to get crushed with facts and logic
Kind of weird that anybody would argue against streaming BW being a much more profitable endeavour than streaming SC2 or even playing in SC2 tournaments for a South Korean pro. Especially considering soO's stature in the scene.
Really hope we will see him in many games of The Daily Proleague and in the next season of ASL.. uhh, SSL I mean.
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On December 26 2024 04:55 M3t4PhYzX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2024 23:59 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On December 24 2024 15:26 Balnazza wrote:On December 24 2024 11:42 WombaT wrote:On December 24 2024 11:31 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On December 24 2024 03:19 Mizenhauer wrote:On December 23 2024 21:52 CicadaSC wrote:
I would say it's not looking good. Let's look at some recent information pointing in that direction.
Crank: states he is 99% sure SC2 will not be in EWC, as chess will be the "strategy" replacement. He also says that many korean players will retire as a result if it is not announced.
World Team League: Shares a similar sentiment and has been vocal on twitter pleading for EWC to incorporate SC2 and chess is not a fitting replacement.
Oliveira: Feeling uncertainty, contemplating retirement, only still competing in Olimoleague finals because crank begged him.
soO: retires.
Dark: Dropped from Talon Esports (Dec. 10th), who recruited him specifically for EWC, in hopes of acquiring club points.
Just a heads up, soO's retirement is more about him enjoying BW (plus other personal choices) than whatever concerns he might have about the future of StarCraft II. The other issues you raised stand, but I wouldn't read into soO's situation the same way. Clearly, soO does not care about the guaranteed money of streaming BW (total donations of about a total 10 million USD a year) and the 5million so far from daily proleagues within 2 years. How guaranteed is it for soO though? Hey people make plenty of dough on Onlyfans, I highly doubt I would if I popped on there. We get it, you don’t like SC2 and want to shit on it at every opportunity, great. You do you. Haven't you learned by now that BW is an endless pit of money that makes everyone with 7 viewers a millionaire in two days? Funny you say that https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/616880-2023q3-top100-balloon-donation-for-all-sc1-and-2-bjsIn 2023 on Afreeca, the top 250 BW streamer, Saber who has like 7 viewers, made 15k USD in 9 months in balloon donation, about 3 times that of whole SC2 made in balloon donations combined (including GSL). TY, the top SC2 streamer made 3.7k in 9 months. The second made a WHOOPING 268 dollars in 9 months. Note that TY already streamed BW in 2023, so is he really a SC2 streamer? Soo made 20 dollars in 9 months in donation. Meanwhile, the top 10 is above 300k in 9 months. But please, move the goal posts even more only to get crushed with facts and logic Kind of weird that anybody would argue against streaming BW being a much more profitable endeavour than streaming SC2 or even playing in SC2 tournaments for a South Korean pro. Especially considering soO's stature in the scene. Really hope we will see him in many games of The Daily Proleague and in the next season of ASL.. uhh, SSL I mean.
I think it depends on your level. If you are a top player some of the SC2 tournaments, at least in 2023 and 2024, have $100,000s of thousands for first or second place at times. How much did Clem make this year? Serral? If you are a middling player and can choose between bw and SC2, bw is probably better. If you're at the level of winning tourneys, you can probably make more playing SC2. BW streaming is highly saturated at the moment. Look at ForGG, he won tournaments in both games and his viewer count sits ~10-20 viewers in bw. Streaming bw does not automatically make you more money as a Korean pro.
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On December 26 2024 05:40 CicadaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2024 04:55 M3t4PhYzX wrote:On December 25 2024 23:59 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On December 24 2024 15:26 Balnazza wrote:On December 24 2024 11:42 WombaT wrote:On December 24 2024 11:31 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On December 24 2024 03:19 Mizenhauer wrote:On December 23 2024 21:52 CicadaSC wrote:
I would say it's not looking good. Let's look at some recent information pointing in that direction.
Crank: states he is 99% sure SC2 will not be in EWC, as chess will be the "strategy" replacement. He also says that many korean players will retire as a result if it is not announced.
World Team League: Shares a similar sentiment and has been vocal on twitter pleading for EWC to incorporate SC2 and chess is not a fitting replacement.
Oliveira: Feeling uncertainty, contemplating retirement, only still competing in Olimoleague finals because crank begged him.
soO: retires.
Dark: Dropped from Talon Esports (Dec. 10th), who recruited him specifically for EWC, in hopes of acquiring club points.
Just a heads up, soO's retirement is more about him enjoying BW (plus other personal choices) than whatever concerns he might have about the future of StarCraft II. The other issues you raised stand, but I wouldn't read into soO's situation the same way. Clearly, soO does not care about the guaranteed money of streaming BW (total donations of about a total 10 million USD a year) and the 5million so far from daily proleagues within 2 years. How guaranteed is it for soO though? Hey people make plenty of dough on Onlyfans, I highly doubt I would if I popped on there. We get it, you don’t like SC2 and want to shit on it at every opportunity, great. You do you. Haven't you learned by now that BW is an endless pit of money that makes everyone with 7 viewers a millionaire in two days? Funny you say that https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/616880-2023q3-top100-balloon-donation-for-all-sc1-and-2-bjsIn 2023 on Afreeca, the top 250 BW streamer, Saber who has like 7 viewers, made 15k USD in 9 months in balloon donation, about 3 times that of whole SC2 made in balloon donations combined (including GSL). TY, the top SC2 streamer made 3.7k in 9 months. The second made a WHOOPING 268 dollars in 9 months. Note that TY already streamed BW in 2023, so is he really a SC2 streamer? Soo made 20 dollars in 9 months in donation. Meanwhile, the top 10 is above 300k in 9 months. But please, move the goal posts even more only to get crushed with facts and logic Kind of weird that anybody would argue against streaming BW being a much more profitable endeavour than streaming SC2 or even playing in SC2 tournaments for a South Korean pro. Especially considering soO's stature in the scene. Really hope we will see him in many games of The Daily Proleague and in the next season of ASL.. uhh, SSL I mean. I think it depends on your level. If you are a top player some of the SC2 tournaments, at least in 2023 and 2024, have $100,000s of thousands for first or second place at times. How much did Clem make this year? Serral? If you are a middling player and can choose between bw and SC2, bw is probably better. If you're at the level of winning tourneys, you can probably make more playing SC2. BW streaming is highly saturated at the moment. Look at ForGG, he won tournaments in both games and his viewer count sits ~10-20 viewers in bw. Streaming bw does not automatically make you more money as a Korean pro.
Two players (!) made '100,000s of thousands' (who the fuck words it like that lmao), then proceeds that 'bw streaming is saturated'.
BW streaming is highly saturated at the moment
Right the highly saturated bw streaming where the 250th worst streamer makes 15k in 9 months...
Just saying, the top 100 BW streamers make '100,000s of thousands' (according to your wording).
Streaming bw does not automatically make you more money as a Korean pro
Yeah, just be Serral or Clem, np. I am awaiting what you argument is gonna be when EWC will not announce SC2, because then Serral and Clem will earn the same as everyone else without Saudi blood money.
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Northern Ireland27402 Posts
Right and how much is any Western player gonna make streaming on Korean platforms to a Korean audience?
Or hell, some live for that tournament scene, the pure competition and a more streaming-centric landscape isn’t really their jam. Jangbi could have made dough but decided it wasn’t really for him, Fantasy stuck at SC2 for quite a while and never really fully returned despite much interest for similar reasons.
For many others, sure BW’s a great option. Be it bank balance, passion, or whatever else motivates you, people will make the right call for them and don’t need the likes of me chipping in
You do this remarkable thing where you take BW, which I love and by being so, so frequently obnoxious about it, in basically every conceivable thread you pop up in that you temporarily make me annoyed at BW by proxy.
Hell I even largely agree re Saudi money as my posting history attests to, but you manage to be irksome about that as well.
Can you just give it a bloody rest?
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On December 25 2024 23:59 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2024 15:26 Balnazza wrote:On December 24 2024 11:42 WombaT wrote:On December 24 2024 11:31 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On December 24 2024 03:19 Mizenhauer wrote:On December 23 2024 21:52 CicadaSC wrote:
I would say it's not looking good. Let's look at some recent information pointing in that direction.
Crank: states he is 99% sure SC2 will not be in EWC, as chess will be the "strategy" replacement. He also says that many korean players will retire as a result if it is not announced.
World Team League: Shares a similar sentiment and has been vocal on twitter pleading for EWC to incorporate SC2 and chess is not a fitting replacement.
Oliveira: Feeling uncertainty, contemplating retirement, only still competing in Olimoleague finals because crank begged him.
soO: retires.
Dark: Dropped from Talon Esports (Dec. 10th), who recruited him specifically for EWC, in hopes of acquiring club points.
Just a heads up, soO's retirement is more about him enjoying BW (plus other personal choices) than whatever concerns he might have about the future of StarCraft II. The other issues you raised stand, but I wouldn't read into soO's situation the same way. Clearly, soO does not care about the guaranteed money of streaming BW (total donations of about a total 10 million USD a year) and the 5million so far from daily proleagues within 2 years. How guaranteed is it for soO though? Hey people make plenty of dough on Onlyfans, I highly doubt I would if I popped on there. We get it, you don’t like SC2 and want to shit on it at every opportunity, great. You do you. Haven't you learned by now that BW is an endless pit of money that makes everyone with 7 viewers a millionaire in two days? Funny you say that https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/616880-2023q3-top100-balloon-donation-for-all-sc1-and-2-bjsIn 2023 on Afreeca, the top 250 BW streamer, Saber who has like 7 viewers, made 15k USD in 9 months in balloon donation, about 3 times that of whole SC2 made in balloon donations combined (including GSL). TY, the top SC2 streamer made 3.7k in 9 months. The second made a WHOOPING 268 dollars in 9 months. Note that TY already streamed BW in 2023, so is he really a SC2 streamer? Soo made 20 dollars in 9 months in donation. Meanwhile, the top 10 is above 300k in 9 months. But please, move the goal posts even more only to get crushed with facts and logic
1)Liking BroodWar is not a personality...again.
2)Most of the streamers on that list are female...but surely it is only about liking Broodwar 
3)No one argues that streaming BW in Korea is much more valuable than streaming SC2. Doesn't mean anything, except when you tryhard it to mean something.
4)Isn't it funny how much you wank about these numbers, but they are still kind of pathetic? According to Statista/Google, the average korean income per month is around 4 million Won (in 2023) or ~2900 US Dollar. In the list you quoted, only the top 250 streamer reach that quota over nine month. Meaning if you are not in the Top 250, you will make below average income. And on that very list the number drops rather quickly from 250 to 300. Saber, the guy you mentioned, didn't make "15K", he made closer to 10K over nine month. Meaning he made less than a 1000$ per month. In my country, that has I believe lower living costs than Korea, that is the kind of money you make by working 80 hours per month at the most.
So really...BW is "nice money". But if you are not reaching a certain elite level, you won't make a living out of it in Korea. Which again, is kind of funny, considering how many Twitch streamers live from 200-300 viewers easily...
Btw: Around 8000$ is the kind of money MaNa apparently made in Earnings alone in SC2 this year...and he really didn't win anything...you know, considering how much you wank about the numbers, you would really think BW is making millionaires left and right every day...
But since it is christmas: I apologize to any sane BW fan. I really do not want to diss your favorite game. I love what Broodwar has done to Esports and I would love to get a succesful, amazing Proleague for an RTS I love one day again. None of this is really a shot against your favorite game or you.
This tosspot is just pissing me the fuck off with his pseudo-love for a game he doesn't even care about. Dude is literally not involved in any Broodwar discussions, his entire purpose is to stalk the SC2 forum to troll and fix his inferiority complex. And I honestly, no front dear TL-Admins, do not understand how someone like that hasn't gotten banned more often.
It's this kind of negativity that literally does add zero value to the forum or any discussion. And I know TL is not farming the clicks these kind of imbeciles produce.
If for my flowery language and going offtopic you decide to give me a warning, I fully understand. But I feel better already, sorry for interrupting the christmas peace with my ranting.
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Northern Ireland27402 Posts
On December 26 2024 07:17 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2024 23:59 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On December 24 2024 15:26 Balnazza wrote:On December 24 2024 11:42 WombaT wrote:On December 24 2024 11:31 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On December 24 2024 03:19 Mizenhauer wrote:On December 23 2024 21:52 CicadaSC wrote:
I would say it's not looking good. Let's look at some recent information pointing in that direction.
Crank: states he is 99% sure SC2 will not be in EWC, as chess will be the "strategy" replacement. He also says that many korean players will retire as a result if it is not announced.
World Team League: Shares a similar sentiment and has been vocal on twitter pleading for EWC to incorporate SC2 and chess is not a fitting replacement.
Oliveira: Feeling uncertainty, contemplating retirement, only still competing in Olimoleague finals because crank begged him.
soO: retires.
Dark: Dropped from Talon Esports (Dec. 10th), who recruited him specifically for EWC, in hopes of acquiring club points.
Just a heads up, soO's retirement is more about him enjoying BW (plus other personal choices) than whatever concerns he might have about the future of StarCraft II. The other issues you raised stand, but I wouldn't read into soO's situation the same way. Clearly, soO does not care about the guaranteed money of streaming BW (total donations of about a total 10 million USD a year) and the 5million so far from daily proleagues within 2 years. How guaranteed is it for soO though? Hey people make plenty of dough on Onlyfans, I highly doubt I would if I popped on there. We get it, you don’t like SC2 and want to shit on it at every opportunity, great. You do you. Haven't you learned by now that BW is an endless pit of money that makes everyone with 7 viewers a millionaire in two days? Funny you say that https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/616880-2023q3-top100-balloon-donation-for-all-sc1-and-2-bjsIn 2023 on Afreeca, the top 250 BW streamer, Saber who has like 7 viewers, made 15k USD in 9 months in balloon donation, about 3 times that of whole SC2 made in balloon donations combined (including GSL). TY, the top SC2 streamer made 3.7k in 9 months. The second made a WHOOPING 268 dollars in 9 months. Note that TY already streamed BW in 2023, so is he really a SC2 streamer? Soo made 20 dollars in 9 months in donation. Meanwhile, the top 10 is above 300k in 9 months. But please, move the goal posts even more only to get crushed with facts and logic 1)Liking BroodWar is not a personality...again. 2)Most of the streamers on that list are female...but surely it is only about liking Broodwar 3)No one argues that streaming BW in Korea is much more valuable than streaming SC2. Doesn't mean anything, except when you tryhard it to mean something. 4)Isn't it funny how much you wank about these numbers, but they are still kind of pathetic? According to Statista/Google, the average korean income per month is around 4 million Won (in 2023) or ~2900 US Dollar. In the list you quoted, only the top 250 streamer reach that quota over nine month. Meaning if you are not in the Top 250, you will make below average income. And on that very list the number drops rather quickly from 250 to 300. Saber, the guy you mentioned, didn't make "15K", he made closer to 10K over nine month. Meaning he made less than a 1000$ per month. In my country, that has I believe lower living costs than Korea, that is the kind of money you make by working 80 hours per month at the most. So really...BW is "nice money". But if you are not reaching a certain elite level, you won't make a living out of it in Korea. Which again, is kind of funny, considering how many Twitch streamers live from 200-300 viewers easily... Btw: Around 8000$ is the kind of money MaNa apparently made in Earnings alone in SC2 this year...and he really didn't win anything...you know, considering how much you wank about the numbers, you would really think BW is making millionaires left and right every day... But since it is christmas: I apologize to any sane BW fan. I really do not want to diss your favorite game. I love what Broodwar has done to Esports and I would love to get a succesful, amazing Proleague for an RTS I love one day again. None of this is really a shot against your favorite game or you. This tosspot is just pissing me the fuck off with his pseudo-love for a game he doesn't even care about. Dude is literally not involved in any Broodwar discussions, his entire purpose is to stalk the SC2 forum to troll and fix his inferiority complex. And I honestly, no front dear TL-Admins, do not understand how someone like that hasn't gotten banned more often. It's this kind of negativity that literally does add zero value to the forum or any discussion. And I know TL is not farming the clicks these kind of imbeciles produce. If for my flowery language and going offtopic you decide to give me a warning, I fully understand. But I feel better already, sorry for interrupting the christmas peace with my ranting.
Ask and you shall receive, Merry Grackmas! A rare example of a post of such a kind less mildly worded than one of mine.
Back on topic and if memory serves you did a bunch of grass roots WC3 stuff, do you think this delay in announcements is doubly harmful?
On one side the traditional pro scene can’t plan for anything without confirmation, but the grass roots or wider community can’t get anything big going either.
If it’s a straight no, they can get to work and see what they can do. It’s hard to energise the community if there’s still the possibility that some giant tournament, or circuit run by one of the biggest eSport orgs in the world could drop at any minute.
It feels to me like we’re in the worst of both worlds.
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On December 26 2024 12:11 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2024 07:17 Balnazza wrote:On December 25 2024 23:59 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On December 24 2024 15:26 Balnazza wrote:On December 24 2024 11:42 WombaT wrote:On December 24 2024 11:31 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On December 24 2024 03:19 Mizenhauer wrote:On December 23 2024 21:52 CicadaSC wrote:
I would say it's not looking good. Let's look at some recent information pointing in that direction.
Crank: states he is 99% sure SC2 will not be in EWC, as chess will be the "strategy" replacement. He also says that many korean players will retire as a result if it is not announced.
World Team League: Shares a similar sentiment and has been vocal on twitter pleading for EWC to incorporate SC2 and chess is not a fitting replacement.
Oliveira: Feeling uncertainty, contemplating retirement, only still competing in Olimoleague finals because crank begged him.
soO: retires.
Dark: Dropped from Talon Esports (Dec. 10th), who recruited him specifically for EWC, in hopes of acquiring club points.
Just a heads up, soO's retirement is more about him enjoying BW (plus other personal choices) than whatever concerns he might have about the future of StarCraft II. The other issues you raised stand, but I wouldn't read into soO's situation the same way. Clearly, soO does not care about the guaranteed money of streaming BW (total donations of about a total 10 million USD a year) and the 5million so far from daily proleagues within 2 years. How guaranteed is it for soO though? Hey people make plenty of dough on Onlyfans, I highly doubt I would if I popped on there. We get it, you don’t like SC2 and want to shit on it at every opportunity, great. You do you. Haven't you learned by now that BW is an endless pit of money that makes everyone with 7 viewers a millionaire in two days? Funny you say that https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/616880-2023q3-top100-balloon-donation-for-all-sc1-and-2-bjsIn 2023 on Afreeca, the top 250 BW streamer, Saber who has like 7 viewers, made 15k USD in 9 months in balloon donation, about 3 times that of whole SC2 made in balloon donations combined (including GSL). TY, the top SC2 streamer made 3.7k in 9 months. The second made a WHOOPING 268 dollars in 9 months. Note that TY already streamed BW in 2023, so is he really a SC2 streamer? Soo made 20 dollars in 9 months in donation. Meanwhile, the top 10 is above 300k in 9 months. But please, move the goal posts even more only to get crushed with facts and logic 1)Liking BroodWar is not a personality...again. 2)Most of the streamers on that list are female...but surely it is only about liking Broodwar 3)No one argues that streaming BW in Korea is much more valuable than streaming SC2. Doesn't mean anything, except when you tryhard it to mean something. 4)Isn't it funny how much you wank about these numbers, but they are still kind of pathetic? According to Statista/Google, the average korean income per month is around 4 million Won (in 2023) or ~2900 US Dollar. In the list you quoted, only the top 250 streamer reach that quota over nine month. Meaning if you are not in the Top 250, you will make below average income. And on that very list the number drops rather quickly from 250 to 300. Saber, the guy you mentioned, didn't make "15K", he made closer to 10K over nine month. Meaning he made less than a 1000$ per month. In my country, that has I believe lower living costs than Korea, that is the kind of money you make by working 80 hours per month at the most. So really...BW is "nice money". But if you are not reaching a certain elite level, you won't make a living out of it in Korea. Which again, is kind of funny, considering how many Twitch streamers live from 200-300 viewers easily... Btw: Around 8000$ is the kind of money MaNa apparently made in Earnings alone in SC2 this year...and he really didn't win anything...you know, considering how much you wank about the numbers, you would really think BW is making millionaires left and right every day... But since it is christmas: I apologize to any sane BW fan. I really do not want to diss your favorite game. I love what Broodwar has done to Esports and I would love to get a succesful, amazing Proleague for an RTS I love one day again. None of this is really a shot against your favorite game or you. This tosspot is just pissing me the fuck off with his pseudo-love for a game he doesn't even care about. Dude is literally not involved in any Broodwar discussions, his entire purpose is to stalk the SC2 forum to troll and fix his inferiority complex. And I honestly, no front dear TL-Admins, do not understand how someone like that hasn't gotten banned more often. It's this kind of negativity that literally does add zero value to the forum or any discussion. And I know TL is not farming the clicks these kind of imbeciles produce. If for my flowery language and going offtopic you decide to give me a warning, I fully understand. But I feel better already, sorry for interrupting the christmas peace with my ranting. Ask and you shall receive, Merry Grackmas! A rare example of a post of such a kind less mildly worded than one of mine. Back on topic and if memory serves you did a bunch of grass roots WC3 stuff, do you think this delay in announcements is doubly harmful? On one side the traditional pro scene can’t plan for anything without confirmation, but the grass roots or wider community can’t get anything big going either. If it’s a straight no, they can get to work and see what they can do. It’s hard to energise the community if there’s still the possibility that some giant tournament, or circuit run by one of the biggest eSport orgs in the world could drop at any minute. It feels to me like we’re in the worst of both worlds.
Woohooo! \ o /
I think I answered your question somewhere kind of already: Yeah, the delay is harmful. For one, we as humans are "lazy" and that includes fans and creators alike. So as long as there is hope, "no one" will get their ass into gear and try something new - which is not meant to disregard all the cool community-lead cups and tournaments we already had since EWC!
But more importantly, you can't plan your things without a clear answer from ESL. Imagine someone puts in the work and plans out a cool 1v1-league (like the Platinum League for Age of Empires), everything sounds great...and then ESL announces their new circuit for 2025 and everything planned goes out the window. So knowing what the future holds not only encourages grassroot project, it also secures them.
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On December 26 2024 12:11 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2024 07:17 Balnazza wrote:On December 25 2024 23:59 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On December 24 2024 15:26 Balnazza wrote:On December 24 2024 11:42 WombaT wrote:On December 24 2024 11:31 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On December 24 2024 03:19 Mizenhauer wrote:On December 23 2024 21:52 CicadaSC wrote:
I would say it's not looking good. Let's look at some recent information pointing in that direction.
Crank: states he is 99% sure SC2 will not be in EWC, as chess will be the "strategy" replacement. He also says that many korean players will retire as a result if it is not announced.
World Team League: Shares a similar sentiment and has been vocal on twitter pleading for EWC to incorporate SC2 and chess is not a fitting replacement.
Oliveira: Feeling uncertainty, contemplating retirement, only still competing in Olimoleague finals because crank begged him.
soO: retires.
Dark: Dropped from Talon Esports (Dec. 10th), who recruited him specifically for EWC, in hopes of acquiring club points.
Just a heads up, soO's retirement is more about him enjoying BW (plus other personal choices) than whatever concerns he might have about the future of StarCraft II. The other issues you raised stand, but I wouldn't read into soO's situation the same way. Clearly, soO does not care about the guaranteed money of streaming BW (total donations of about a total 10 million USD a year) and the 5million so far from daily proleagues within 2 years. How guaranteed is it for soO though? Hey people make plenty of dough on Onlyfans, I highly doubt I would if I popped on there. We get it, you don’t like SC2 and want to shit on it at every opportunity, great. You do you. Haven't you learned by now that BW is an endless pit of money that makes everyone with 7 viewers a millionaire in two days? Funny you say that https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/616880-2023q3-top100-balloon-donation-for-all-sc1-and-2-bjsIn 2023 on Afreeca, the top 250 BW streamer, Saber who has like 7 viewers, made 15k USD in 9 months in balloon donation, about 3 times that of whole SC2 made in balloon donations combined (including GSL). TY, the top SC2 streamer made 3.7k in 9 months. The second made a WHOOPING 268 dollars in 9 months. Note that TY already streamed BW in 2023, so is he really a SC2 streamer? Soo made 20 dollars in 9 months in donation. Meanwhile, the top 10 is above 300k in 9 months. But please, move the goal posts even more only to get crushed with facts and logic 1)Liking BroodWar is not a personality...again. 2)Most of the streamers on that list are female...but surely it is only about liking Broodwar 3)No one argues that streaming BW in Korea is much more valuable than streaming SC2. Doesn't mean anything, except when you tryhard it to mean something. 4)Isn't it funny how much you wank about these numbers, but they are still kind of pathetic? According to Statista/Google, the average korean income per month is around 4 million Won (in 2023) or ~2900 US Dollar. In the list you quoted, only the top 250 streamer reach that quota over nine month. Meaning if you are not in the Top 250, you will make below average income. And on that very list the number drops rather quickly from 250 to 300. Saber, the guy you mentioned, didn't make "15K", he made closer to 10K over nine month. Meaning he made less than a 1000$ per month. In my country, that has I believe lower living costs than Korea, that is the kind of money you make by working 80 hours per month at the most. So really...BW is "nice money". But if you are not reaching a certain elite level, you won't make a living out of it in Korea. Which again, is kind of funny, considering how many Twitch streamers live from 200-300 viewers easily... Btw: Around 8000$ is the kind of money MaNa apparently made in Earnings alone in SC2 this year...and he really didn't win anything...you know, considering how much you wank about the numbers, you would really think BW is making millionaires left and right every day... But since it is christmas: I apologize to any sane BW fan. I really do not want to diss your favorite game. I love what Broodwar has done to Esports and I would love to get a succesful, amazing Proleague for an RTS I love one day again. None of this is really a shot against your favorite game or you. This tosspot is just pissing me the fuck off with his pseudo-love for a game he doesn't even care about. Dude is literally not involved in any Broodwar discussions, his entire purpose is to stalk the SC2 forum to troll and fix his inferiority complex. And I honestly, no front dear TL-Admins, do not understand how someone like that hasn't gotten banned more often. It's this kind of negativity that literally does add zero value to the forum or any discussion. And I know TL is not farming the clicks these kind of imbeciles produce. If for my flowery language and going offtopic you decide to give me a warning, I fully understand. But I feel better already, sorry for interrupting the christmas peace with my ranting. Ask and you shall receive, Merry Grackmas! A rare example of a post of such a kind less mildly worded than one of mine. Back on topic and if memory serves you did a bunch of grass roots WC3 stuff, do you think this delay in announcements is doubly harmful? On one side the traditional pro scene can’t plan for anything without confirmation, but the grass roots or wider community can’t get anything big going either. If it’s a straight no, they can get to work and see what they can do. It’s hard to energise the community if there’s still the possibility that some giant tournament, or circuit run by one of the biggest eSport orgs in the world could drop at any minute. It feels to me like we’re in the worst of both worlds.
It's really sad, because no one knows anything.
1 ESL is not confirming anything.
2. ESWC is not confirming anything, there's still hope
3. Microsoft themselves didn't say anything, which in reality, they could just step in and sponsor some tournament regardless, it might be small, but they doing it for AOE stuff. But SC2 ain't even have a team, so I guess not, is not profitable for them, AOE2 / 4 for example still have actual team working on things, AOE4 has world edge team, I have personally interacted while working there long while back. And relic is doing dev work, World Edge handles Porduct/Release work. So they still putting out tournament and stuff from EGC I think I might buchtered the TO's name. But it's easy to find out.
4. Microsoft now literally owns all the popular RTS, until there is a real competitor in the space, I think it's actually super harmful for the community, I shit you not. Within Microsoft, especially people who worked there for a long time, there is a sentiment how Microsoft operates, if there is no competitor Microsoft actually has no idea how to operate, basically means, they have no innovation and investment in the space, if you know how IE was being shit and shitter, because IE was so dominate marketwise they literally pulled plug on all product development. Otherwise, there would never be a thing called Chrome. This tendency have me worreid about the future of SC2, becasue it is still the most slick and sick RTS for most people, some OG player may like brood war, especially korean, but the sheer mechanical requirement turns away most people. SC2 playing experience wise suits most player, because very very few poeple can get the macro side of things down in Brood war , let aloone micro bunch of shit around different places.
At this point, this is just a really stupid cluster fuck of situation we are in. I am sure there are a tons of people would love to put in work to get grassroot stuff going, I mean there's a bunch of casters, Wardii /Olimoleague and stuff are there, if no other major tournament I mean community can get things going, might not be as profitable as a "professional circuit sponsored by Blizzard/Saudi" money but there still will be people competting, only matter of how serious.
Hey I might have said some stupid reddit take on this forum from time to time, I don't run everything through my logic, but honestly, aside I am annoyed I cannot swap minimap from left to right, I don't hate the game that much. It is only a really stupid thing I am 37 now, I don't have the stupid 17YO reflex to check minimap like a stupid scanner 24/7 and instantly react to it, and sadly I am right eye dominated, so I put my minimap in other game all on the right side, my gun is left handed in CS2, it does help a lot. Probably because my eye got worse over the year too. I was thinking to ask blizzard/MSFT let me work for free to get the minimap swap support in but I don't think they would, because it wouldn't be free, even if I am there to change the code..... technically for free, all the other things that push / QA the code is not free, plus the time to ramp up, I really wish it had a way to do it 
And one of my friend actually use OBS to stream the minimap to the other screen on a BIG ASS Screen , lmao, maybe I should try that. LOL.
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Why can't the community accept that from a professional gaming level, SC2 is dead? The proof is there if we look at other professional esports shrinking as well. IEM Katowice is from February 7 to 9, which is just over a month away. It is historically one of the largest tournaments in the esports world. There's no way ESL or EWC is going to announce a SC2 tournament there with just over a month left. The amount of scrambling to get it set up and for teams to sign players would make it logistically rushed and probably impossible.
I think going forward, we'll only get the smaller cups and community events hosted by guys like Rotti, Wardi, the likes. Don't hope for a huge offline event played in front of a large audience again. The money going into esports is shrinking and with the recent controversy around Twitch streamers and sponsors pulling out, I imagine the situation is more critical than we are led to believe.
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On December 29 2024 06:29 geokilla wrote:
Why can't the community accept that from a professional gaming level, SC2 is dead? The proof is there if we look at other professional esports shrinking as well. IEM Katowice is from February 7 to 9, which is just over a month away. It is historically one of the largest tournaments in the esports world. There's no way ESL or EWC is going to announce a SC2 tournament there with just over a month left. The amount of scrambling to get it set up and for teams to sign players would make it logistically rushed and probably impossible.
I think going forward, we'll only get the smaller cups and community events hosted by guys like Rotti, Wardi, the likes. Don't hope for a huge offline event played in front of a large audience again. The money going into esports is shrinking and with the recent controversy around Twitch streamers and sponsors pulling out, I imagine the situation is more critical than we are led to believe.
Because everyone is just guessing, including you. There are no announcements. There may be one that says "everything is great SC2 is back bb praise Aiur" or "everything is super not great, here's one LAN" or, as you predict, "everything really sucks and we're sorry but no more SC2 from ESL or EWC". No one knows, and no one is going to "accept" something that isn't proven one way or another.
IEM Kato is certainly not happening considering the timeline, that is definitely true. Anything else? No one has any idea. So you can guess as much as anyone else, but leading your post with "Why can't the community accept that from a professional gaming level, SC2 is dead?" when there's zero announcements is a bit silly, no? Of course people won't accept something like that without confirmation.
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EPT
