EPTherO “Everyone says that Serral is the GOAT” - Page 2
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radracer
United States70 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33374 Posts
On June 23 2024 09:55 radracer wrote: A lot of the time modern sports players say someone from their era (Or the one right before them, that they watched growing up) is the goat, even against the common opinions of past eras. Some people think Kareem is still the GOAT, some Jordan, Kobe got it during his era, LeBron, etc. A current player saying the best peer in his era is the GOAT is not uncommon at all. it's not uncommon for traditional sports, but in the context of StarCraft, I think Serral has received noticeably more praise/fear from his peers than other great players. Ofc this is purely anecdotal from my end, though I do think I've consumed more interviews/content over the lifespan of SC2 compared to the majority of fans. Not saying this would hold up to some academic media analysis  | ||
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radracer
United States70 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4193 Posts
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Locutos
Brazil261 Posts
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Locutos
Brazil261 Posts
On June 23 2024 09:55 radracer wrote: A lot of the time modern sports players say someone from their era (Or the one right before them, that they watched growing up) is the goat, even against the common opinions of past eras. Some people think Kareem is still the GOAT, some Jordan, Kobe got it during his era, LeBron, etc. A current player saying the best peer in his era is the GOAT is not uncommon at all. Nah. A lot of football players hail the ones they saw playing - while growing up - as the best they've ever seen. And not their contemporaries. | ||
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Locutos
Brazil261 Posts
On June 22 2024 04:52 Cactus66 wrote: I get the impression from the pros they don't think it's much of a goat debate. Usually a bit of a smirk or laugh when describing how it's just different having to play serral. Yup. And that from the ones who were already top players by the great golden shiny rainbow age of 2014-16... | ||
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Cactus66
23 Posts
On June 23 2024 09:55 radracer wrote: A lot of the time modern sports players say someone from their era (Or the one right before them, that they watched growing up) is the goat, even against the common opinions of past eras. Some people think Kareem is still the GOAT, some Jordan, Kobe got it during his era, LeBron, etc. A current player saying the best peer in his era is the GOAT is not uncommon at all. This comment has no relevance to the sc2 GOAT debate though. "Hero's era" spans "Maru's era" AND "Serral's era". Hero won his first premier tournament in 2012. He's a contemporary of both Serral and Maru and has overlapped both of their entire careers. You word this as if Maru and Serral are like Jordan and Kareem. If someone played against Kareem and Jordan for both their entire careers and/or peaks they would have a pretty relevant opinion on which was the GOAT. This is why this debate is so stupid, because the peak of the "Maru era" was in "Serral's era". This isn't Jordan vs Kareem or Wilt. Pele vs Messi or Ronaldo. Brady vs Montana. The timelines overlap. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13974 Posts
On June 22 2024 01:26 tigera6 wrote: The 2nd best Zerg is Reynor or Dark, who have won a World Championship and multiple offline events (DH/Gamers8/GSL). The 2nd best Terran is either Clem or Cure who hasnt even reach the Final or a World Championship, and has won a combine of TWO offline event (1GSL and 1DH). And you think the gap between Serral and the 2nd Zerg is BIGGER than Maru and the 2nd Terran? putting Reynor in contention for top 2 zerg when Life Rogue and Dark exist is insane | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25228 Posts
On June 24 2024 13:11 Cricketer12 wrote: putting Reynor in contention for top 2 zerg when Life Rogue and Dark exist is insane I assume they meant in the relatively recent past, in which case I would maybe agree with them, Reynor’s current slump aside. I think Dark’s dropped from being a big title contender in the big ones to the perpetually dangerous, Ro4 mainstay for a wee while now. Of course having said that he’ll no doubt go and win GSL this season. All-time nah, he just doesn’t quite have the body of work although I think his ceiling when he’s really in form is pretty ridiculous | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1156 Posts
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Ciaus237
South Africa280 Posts
On June 24 2024 18:16 Balnazza wrote: I would definetly argue Reynor and Rogue battle it out for 2nd best Zerg of all time, with Rogue probably having a slight edge for now. Dark is trailing behind and the other guy isn't really worth mentioning. Three year career and no World Championships eliminates him from contention by a lot. Nah. Reynor does not have enough of a portfolio to contest. It's not close - Rogue is #2 and clears it. And Dark is still a fair bit ahead of Reynor in overall career achievement IMO. I also think he was, by a fair margin, the most shafted player in Miz's GOAT list. Dude has a solid case for number 6 or so. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3379 Posts
On June 23 2024 01:27 WombaT wrote: At least these days, there is the ‘all time’ part of course I’d give herO at least, if not better than 50/50 shot against any other player in PvZ right now, and basically a 0% if it’s Serral While his ZvT is good enough to sweep Clem and Maru at Katowice, or beat an on-fire Oliveira and sweep Maru recently, his ZvP is somehow even better again. IMO the single best matchup any player has had in SC2. A few years ago Zerg was just generally dunking on Protoss so Serral doing so wasn’t atypical, but he’s kept that almost invincibility while his peers no longer have it I'm pretty sure herO would've put up a better fight against Serral than Maru. herO should've won against Maru as well and this is at a time where Protoss struggle the most. IMO herO is the 2nd best player atm, but he has a hard time winning against Maru on the current balance. Atm herO is actually the biggest outlier, whereas Dark, Reynor and Rogue could go on a domination spree similar to Serral and many, many Terrans are able to win a single tournament, Oliveira, ByuN, Clem, Gumiho and Maru. Who actually has a shot to win a tournament as a Protoss, there is only herO and this is despite the fact that we have a great pool of Protoss talent, Classic, Stats, Maxpax, Nightmare, Creator, Trap and herO. As for the interview, when you repeat what was said by the interviewee in another way, you waste time that could've otherwise been more great questions. Your interviews are much needed, thank you so much. | ||
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Ciaus237
South Africa280 Posts
On June 24 2024 19:46 ejozl wrote: I'm pretty sure herO would've put up a better fight against Serral than Maru. ... ... whereas Dark, Reynor and Rogue could go on a domination spree similar to Serral Gonna put a big citation needed on these statements. When Serral and herO last played, Serral completely crushed him. His army movement and understanding of where he was in the game and on the map was just better, consistently. Those three Zergs have all had some high peaks, but none of them have ever kept it looking consistent like Serral has. They may dominate a tournament, maybe two in Rogue's case, but not a year, let alone five or six in a row. Further, they had those peaks before a substantial weakening of banelings, which doesn't seem to have affected Serral the least bit. | ||
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lokol4890
114 Posts
On June 24 2024 20:52 Ciaus237 wrote: Gonna put a big citation needed on these statements. When Serral and herO last played, Serral completely crushed him. His army movement and understanding of where he was in the game and on the map was just better, consistently. Those three Zergs have all had some high peaks, but none of them have ever kept it looking consistent like Serral has. They may dominate a tournament, maybe two in Rogue's case, but not a year, let alone five or six in a row. Further, they had those peaks before a substantial weakening of banelings, which doesn't seem to have affected Serral the least bit. Can you cite when serral dominated 5 years? Winning one or two tournaments a year is not the same as dominating. Are we literally just ignoring how the other top 3 zergs (reynor, rogue, dark) since 2019 all the way through 2023 were winning a bunch of stuff? | ||
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Ciaus237
South Africa280 Posts
On June 24 2024 22:02 lokol4890 wrote: Can you cite when serral dominated 5 years? Winning one or two tournaments a year is not the same as dominating. Are we literally just ignoring how the other top 3 zergs (reynor, rogue, dark) since 2019 all the way through 2023 were winning a bunch of stuff? I'm just gonna let you open Serral's liquipedia page and check how wrong your numbers are for yourself. Here you go, have fun  | ||
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MyLovelyLurker
France756 Posts
On June 24 2024 22:02 lokol4890 wrote: Can you cite when serral dominated 5 years? Winning one or two tournaments a year is not the same as dominating. Are we literally just ignoring how the other top 3 zergs (reynor, rogue, dark) since 2019 all the way through 2023 were winning a bunch of stuff? Serral's worst winrate year vs Koreans since 2018 is 70.3% (in 2021). For reference people used to win world championships or multiple GSLs with 65%-66%. You have no idea how wrong you are. | ||
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sc2turtlepants
35 Posts
Can you cite when serral dominated 5 years? Winning one or two tournaments a year is not the same as dominating. 26 premier tournaments / 6.5 years = 4 per year, on average since the start of 2018. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15951 Posts
On June 24 2024 22:56 MyLovelyLurker wrote: Serral's worst winrate year vs Koreans since 2018 is 70.3% (in 2021). For reference people used to win world championships or multiple GSLs with 65%-66%. You have no idea how wrong you are. Serral dominated the 2nd half of 2018 and from 2022 on, but from 2019 to 2021 he had a small dip in form and wasn't really dominating as Rogue, Reynor, Dark, Trap and Maru were all outperforming Serral for significant amounts of time (not all at the same time, but they had all periods where they were inarguably performing better than Serral). Doesn't mean Serral was bad as he probably still was a top 3 player at all times which is impressive enough but I guess that's what he was refering to. | ||
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darklycid
3503 Posts
On June 24 2024 22:27 Ciaus237 wrote: I'm just gonna let you open Serral's liquipedia page and check how wrong your numbers are for yourself. Here you go, have fun So if i check the results timeline the periods of real dominance have been the 2nd half of 2018 and the recent period since somewhen in 2023 (even tho it hasnt quite been like 2018 ever again). His results are still obviously turbo impressive and consistently great even in the years in between but it wasnt dominance imo. | ||
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