EPTSerral Wins Master's Coliseum 6 - Page 2
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pajen007
7 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25665 Posts
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MoreCowbell21692
4 Posts
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Riner1212
United States337 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany6954 Posts
On September 14 2023 03:13 Locutus_ wrote: The top 10 nowadays is pretty stacked. Serral, Maru, Reynor, Clem, herO, Byun, Cure, Solar, Dark and MaxPax... All of them are always title contenders. Between Serral and Maru there is like a 90% chance they win. All the others have a combined 10% chance IMO | ||
Poopi
France12897 Posts
On September 14 2023 17:36 Harris1st wrote: Between Serral and Maru there is like a 90% chance they win. All the others have a combined 10% chance IMO I mean Reynor won the most important tournament that happened recently (at least money wise, but there is no more legacy tournaments except maybe Katowice anymore), so I don't think that's a fair statement  Plus I don't see Maru beat Serral on this patch/map pool, so he gotta pray that a zerg eliminates him beforehands, he is in the others with the combined 10% chance I'd say if it's an important tournament (with enough prizepool etc.) it's 40% Serral - 40% Reynor - 20% rest of top players combined | ||
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PiGStarcraft
Australia987 Posts
On September 14 2023 04:52 Swash91 wrote: Every ZVT ---> Make banes = GG. Found the guy that didn't watch any of Serral's games | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6954 Posts
On September 14 2023 18:01 Poopi wrote: I mean Reynor won the most important tournament that happened recently (at least money wise, but there is no more legacy tournaments except maybe Katowice anymore), so I don't think that's a fair statement Plus I don't see Maru beat Serral on this patch/map pool, so he gotta pray that a zerg eliminates him beforehands, he is in the others with the combined 10% chance I'd say if it's an important tournament (with enough prizepool etc.) it's 40% Serral - 40% Reynor - 20% rest of top players combined Fair. Reynor's big tournament beastmode is incredible. But if he can't find that mode he mostly "just" finishes top 8 Same with Maru (GSL mode) and Mary (non GSL mode). And Serral got three modes: Godlike make it look easy mode. Slumpmode has to work for it, will probably still win every game but it's close and maybe he'll lose a ZvZ WTF mode. Loses a close ZvT or god forbid a ZvP | ||
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Gantz023
34 Posts
On September 13 2023 23:24 Charoisaur wrote: winning an online tournament in 2023 makes him the Goat? Are you saying that Serral cant win offline tournaments ?? :O. | ||
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Chinwe
3 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15977 Posts
On September 15 2023 07:05 Gantz023 wrote: Are you saying that Serral cant win offline tournaments ?? :O. No, where did you read that? I said this tournament barely has an impact on whether or not he's the Goat. | ||
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Locutus_
Brazil65 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25665 Posts
On September 15 2023 17:04 Charoisaur wrote: No, where did you read that? I said this tournament barely has an impact on whether or not he's the Goat. It moves the needle, albeit slightly. Serral’s entire claim is periods of dominance and relentless consistency. He can’t for example have any claim based on prospering at the peak era of competitiveness in the game’s history because he wasn’t there. Also another two wins against Maru to further extend their H2H in his favour. Less significant if it were a minor tourney and it’s pushed it slightly in his favour, he’s really gapping Maru in this metric now. As I’m on record as saying many times I don’t think you can crown a singular GOAT, too many incomparable eras and scenes really. If there was an SC2 version of BW Flash sure but we don’t really have that. Serral’s certainly up there in that conversation, but I think he does increasingly have a hard to dispute claim as SC2’s most relentlessly consistent top level performer, and here’s another small piece of that jigsaw On September 15 2023 19:39 Locutus_ wrote: Now, this tournament is a perfect example why we cant take an individual tourney to gauge a player's ability. Had this tourney not been double bracket (in playoffs), Serral would have dropped out in Ro8, and Maru would have been top 12 instead of top4. Players play to a format, we can’t just retrospectively go back through and treat them as a single elim format or whatever. It introduces various variables into the equation. Does every player play equally as well in a winner’s bracket where they know they have another life, versus one loss and you’re out single elim for example? | ||
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ZeroByte13
768 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15977 Posts
On September 15 2023 22:26 WombaT wrote: It moves the needle, albeit slightly. Serral’s entire claim is periods of dominance and relentless consistency. He can’t for example have any claim based on prospering at the peak era of competitiveness in the game’s history because he wasn’t there. Also another two wins against Maru to further extend their H2H in his favour. Less significant if it were a minor tourney and it’s pushed it slightly in his favour, he’s really gapping Maru in this metric now. As I’m on record as saying many times I don’t think you can crown a singular GOAT, too many incomparable eras and scenes really. If there was an SC2 version of BW Flash sure but we don’t really have that. Serral’s certainly up there in that conversation, but I think he does increasingly have a hard to dispute claim as SC2’s most relentlessly consistent top level performer, and here’s another small piece of that jigsaw Players play to a format, we can’t just retrospectively go back through and treat them as a single elim format or whatever. It introduces various variables into the equation. Does every player play equally as well in a winner’s bracket where they know they have another life, versus one loss and you’re out single elim for example? He's the most consistent top performer but only in smaller events. In the GSL he never participated and in world championship tier events his record is okay but not as good as others. Counting IEM Katowice, Blizzcon, WESG and gamers8 he has won 2 out 13 attempts which is good but not as good as sOs/Rogue. Considering he has never participated in the other highly prestigious circuit and factoring in the era he played in, I have a hard time calling him the de-facto Goat. Tbf Neither Maru or Rogue can be called the de-facto Goat imo, I think there just isn't a Goat in sc2. | ||
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Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
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tommey.liang
United States363 Posts
Bummer for Clem to go 0-3 twice against ByuN and Maru after beating Serral in four games. | ||
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Nasigil
137 Posts
One of the biggest arguments for Serral's GOAT claim is his domination over his peers. Aside of Rogue which has an equal h2h record with Serral, he holds a positive h2h record against literally every single top player in his era, and the ratio is mostly very one sided. You can talk about GSL all day but all those GSL players always get destroyed by Serral when they meet on international stage. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25665 Posts
On September 19 2023 02:42 Nasigil wrote: The tournament is small, but looking at the actual players he defeated along the way, it's one hell of the run. The top 4 Korean Terran in Maru, Byun, Cure and Gumiho, the best Korean Zerg in Dark, one of the best online Protoss in MaxPax. He went 20-3 on maps against some of the best players in the world. One of the biggest arguments for Serral's GOAT claim is his domination over his peers. Aside of Rogue which has an equal h2h record with Serral, he holds a positive h2h record against literally every single top player in his era, and the ratio is mostly very one sided. You can talk about GSL all day but all those GSL players always get destroyed by Serral when they meet on international stage. This. | ||
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Poopi
France12897 Posts
On September 19 2023 02:42 Nasigil wrote: The tournament is small, but looking at the actual players he defeated along the way, it's one hell of the run. The top 4 Korean Terran in Maru, Byun, Cure and Gumiho, the best Korean Zerg in Dark, one of the best online Protoss in MaxPax. He went 20-3 on maps against some of the best players in the world. One of the biggest arguments for Serral's GOAT claim is his domination over his peers. Aside of Rogue which has an equal h2h record with Serral, he holds a positive h2h record against literally every single top player in his era, and the ratio is mostly very one sided. You can talk about GSL all day but all those GSL players always get destroyed by Serral when they meet on international stage. I mean, he got taken out of the world championship by a zerg that didn’t manage to qualify for this season of GSL. Beating terrans and protoss as easily and still being that vulnerable to supposedly lesser zergs just smell like zerg being as strong as ever, although it’s impressive to do it consistently whereas players like Reynor only bother when there are huge sums of money Similarly, he didn’t manage to carry Basilisk into a WTL win because of Solar, who is notorious for getting eliminated early on in the GSL over and over again | ||
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