EPTBalance Patch 5.0.11 PTR Patch Notes - Page 2
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BonitiilloO
Dominican Republic614 Posts
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tigera6
3340 Posts
The Ghost nerf might be end up doing nothing, like if the Terran is good with Ghost (aka Maru), they will still snipe the shit out of the Zerg unit and the EMP nerf arent doing much when they can just shoot more EMP by making more Ghost. Raven got nerf in late game, you can only throw down 2 Turret instead of 4 at full energy, or 1 Turret + 1 Matrix instead of 2 Matrix + 1 Turret. The reduction in cost and build time help to balance it in early game (making 4 instead of 3 Ravens in TvT), but the early Raven run-by and dropping Turret will be no longer economic imo. On December 08 2022 11:40 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: When do these changes go live? My best guess is after HSC is done, along with the map pool change. | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1069 Posts
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Husyelt
United States829 Posts
The only one missing is adding some god damn fucking new maps to the team leagues. | ||
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Athenau
569 Posts
The Ghost nerf might be end up doing nothing, like if the Terran is good with Ghost (aka Maru), they will still snipe the shit out of the Zerg unit and the EMP nerf arent doing much when they can just shoot more EMP by making more Ghost There's no response on the Terran side to the Zerg pulling back their units. It's all on the Zerg to make the counter-play. | ||
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JJH777
United States4400 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
On December 08 2022 14:46 JJH777 wrote: I think the nerf to ghost snipe will kill TvZ turtle style and really any option for T to play lategame in an even state. The situation where Zerg is pulling away but the snipes have already started is a huge portion of Terrans efficiency which is required to win those games. I don't see how Serral/Dark ever drop lategame ZvT with this gimped snipe. Ghosts are silly and Terran lategame shouldn't hinge completely on snipe to the point that a change like this makes the matchup impossible. If it ruins the matchup, then lategame should be re-balanced a different way, not via snipe. Also, people saying these doom-and-gloom things also need to address the corresponding nerf to Vipers. | ||
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JJH777
United States4400 Posts
On December 08 2022 14:58 Turbovolver wrote: Ghosts are silly and Terran lategame shouldn't hinge completely on snipe to the point that a change like this makes the matchup impossible. If it ruins the matchup, then lategame should be re-balanced a different way, not via snipe. Also, people saying these doom-and-gloom things also need to address the corresponding nerf to Vipers. The ghost was probably overtuned but there are no compensating buffs to address it. Imagine T lategame right now without the Ghosts extreme efficiency and every top T would be getting rolled over. I don't think the viper abduct nerf is that big in TvZ lategame. It will be for Mech style but not the currently popular lategame style. That abduct change will be much bigger for PvZ lategame and I'm curious to see how that plays out though even there I think that interceptor nerf is almost as big as the abduct nerf so will probably balance out. | ||
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Athenau
569 Posts
On December 08 2022 14:58 Turbovolver wrote: Ghosts are silly and Terran lategame shouldn't hinge completely on snipe to the point that a change like this makes the matchup impossible. If it ruins the matchup, then lategame should be re-balanced a different way, not via snipe. Also, people saying these doom-and-gloom things also need to address the corresponding nerf to Vipers. That Viper nerf is way less consequential than the snipe and EMP nerfs. Zergs also got a significant buff to hydras, when hydra-bane is arguably the most common mid-game composition. And who are you even kidding about "lategame should be re-balanced a different way"--what will actually happen is that Zerg will be busted for another six months to a year, the top zergs will hoover up all the prize money, and laugh all the way to bank like they have for the last three years. | ||
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True_Spike
Poland3418 Posts
Creep spam should be better addressed and I am a tad worried about the ghost change (seems like late game TvZ is going to become even more Z-favoured). And no, I'm not a terran player  | ||
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DrunkenJedi
Germany175 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2392 Posts
On December 08 2022 15:26 Athenau wrote: That Viper nerf is way less consequential than the snipe and EMP nerfs. Zergs also got a significant buff to hydras, when hydra-bane is arguably the most common mid-game composition. I would consider almost anyone on here more qualified than me to judge the Viper nerf versus the Ghost nerfs. I only watch GSL, lol, although that also means I'm not here to have a TvZ "patch trauma" competition with you. Bringing up hydras as strong in the midgame is irrelevant to anything I said. On December 08 2022 15:26 Athenau wrote: And who are you even kidding about "lategame should be re-balanced a different way"--what will actually happen is that Zerg will be busted for another six months to a year, the top zergs will hoover up all the prize money, and laugh all the way to bank like they have for the last three years. I'm saying that's what should happen. You're probably right that if these changes turn out badly the game might be left waiting too long for more fixes. I'll take them having a shot at fixing things over every top-level, extended TvZ being "can the bullshit that is snipe overpower the bullshit that is Zerg taking the whole map". The patch has taken some positive steps in that direction and we'll see how they turn out. On December 08 2022 15:09 JJH777 wrote:The ghost was probably overtuned but there are no compensating buffs to address it. Imagine T lategame right now without the Ghosts extreme efficiency and every top T would be getting rolled over. I don't think the viper abduct nerf is that big in TvZ lategame. It will be for Mech style but not the currently popular lategame style. Right, as per above I would take your word about the Viper nerf not compensating for the Ghost nerf. Isn't the idea behind the creep tumour vision range nerf that it makes them slower to spread at the top level? That seems to also be pushing the game towards a more active TvZ where it is more possible for the T to take some proper map control. This is the post-patch fantasy in my head, at least. On December 08 2022 15:09 JJH777 wrote:That abduct change will be much bigger for PvZ lategame and I'm curious to see how that plays out though even there I think that interceptor nerf is almost as big as the abduct nerf so will probably balance out. Could definitely believe it. Less of those two units deciding lategames is a win in my book, though  | ||
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atrox_
United Kingdom1710 Posts
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angry_maia
311 Posts
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ejozl
Denmark3353 Posts
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KarlSiegt
Italy35 Posts
I'm also looking for the buff to the size of 55% of the brain of those who have been patching since this game came out by distorting both the units and now also the size of the units, but I just can't find it. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15917 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15917 Posts
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hjpalpha
Germany339 Posts
On December 08 2022 12:41 Waxangel wrote: Not the first time HomeStory Cup was turned into balance-test story cup  https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/553021-homestory-cup-xx-preview-the-new-season i doubt we will do that, not a fan of it at all
in general i really dislike these changes, they look like they were written by 2 zergs and a toss and fuck over terran pretty hard | ||
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tigera6
3340 Posts
On December 08 2022 17:53 hjpalpha wrote: in general i really dislike these changes, they look like they were written by 2 zergs and a toss and fuck over terran pretty hard Considering the guys who are part of the committee are Zerg and Protoss, this should not be that shocking. The last patch was about taking the Skytoss - Queen Walk in PvZ, and now they are dealing with PvT and ZvT. | ||
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