EPTThey have a bit more damage vs Armored, yes, but they're much more effective vs Marines than they are vs Immortals.
Balance Patch 5.0.11 PTR Patch Notes - Page 28
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ZeroByte13
744 Posts
They have a bit more damage vs Armored, yes, but they're much more effective vs Marines than they are vs Immortals. | ||
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QOGQOG
817 Posts
On January 22 2023 16:46 absinthfee wrote: Zerg got their core units nerfed So Lings, Banelings, Queens, Roaches, Hydras, and Ravagers have been nerfed? Wow, I really haven't been keeping up with the patch. Good to know. | ||
[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/M9xse1Z.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/E1WrfDK.jpg) Look at this image. An adept blocking the space between two gates in hold position. He should block the zerlings right? ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/82IRzzD.jpg) WRONG. Edit: to be perfectly clear. There is a "bug" where even if you block the space between two buildings with 1 adept in hold position, in some cases lings can still get through. Even pros in the GSL have lost to this. End of edit. _________ Insta lose when I did my wall correctly without any way for me to possibly know lings for some unexplicably reason will be able to go through. And then people say that there's no luck involved in this game, and the guy has the arrogance to tell me to get better when I literally did everything right to block the entrance. So, if you could fix this in this patch, I'd appreciate it. | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
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SharkStarcraft
Austria2166 Posts
Every little change to the Zerg race is so carefully thought through and every minor buff is compensated by a tiny nerf but with Protoss it's like hmm yeah let's make the CARRIER worse but the OBSERVER better that sounds great! I really like the fact that we still get patches for the game I love but any non-Zerg player with a brain in their head should realize that this patch doesn't change enough of the core problems, one of which is that the entire fking map is covered in slimy goo by the 6 minute mark. | ||
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bela.mervado
Hungary367 Posts
it's almost 3:10, you should be training your third unit from your first gateway. you should not get away with 1 adept no battery no full wall against 17+ lings. your probe scout and your first adept (chrono) should notice the lack of drones. there's a neat trick, you can shade your adept backward to your nat, fully wall with a gate, and save your adept. a battery or two can be of great help. you probably should send the replay to Harstem for a more detailed analysis. -- people don't seem to realise this shadow illuminati secret zerg society totally gutted the brood lord by cutting the broodling lifespan almost in half. not to mention the cooldown on the wanker spell for the flying scorpion. they literally removed late game zerg, Dark would not win that recent ugly game on this patch. i wish all capital ships would have the same speed as brood lords. | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom792 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15867 Posts
On January 23 2023 17:15 bela.mervado wrote: Hey Phantom. it's almost 3:10, you should be training your third unit from your first gateway. you should not get away with 1 adept no battery no full wall against 17+ lings. your probe scout and your first adept (chrono) should notice the lack of drones. there's a neat trick, you can shade your adept backward to your nat, fully wall with a gate, and save your adept. a battery or two can be of great help. you probably should send the replay to Harstem for a more detailed analysis. -- people don't seem to realise this shadow illuminati secret zerg society totally gutted the brood lord by cutting the broodling lifespan almost in half. not to mention the cooldown on the wanker spell for the flying scorpion. they literally removed late game zerg, Dark would not win that recent ugly game on this patch. i wish all capital ships would have the same speed as brood lords. That Broodling change barely makes any difference, they usually get killed way before the duration ends anyway. The speed buff on the other hand is massive | ||
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TheCheapSkate
Slovenia316 Posts
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TurtleFish
11 Posts
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On January 23 2023 11:03 [Phantom] wrote: Hey balance council you know what would be a great change for the game? Look at this image. An adept blocking the space between two gates in hold position. He should block the zerlings right? WRONG. Insta lose when I did my wall correctly without any way for me to possibly know lings for some unexplicably reason will be able to go through. And then people say that there's no luck involved in this game, and the guy has the arrogance to tell me to get better when I literally did everything right. So, if you could fix this in this patch, I'd appreciate it. This post actually pisses me off. the guy has the arrogance to tell me to get better when I literally did everything right. Are you deadass telling me and everyone else here, that as a 3300 MMR protoss, you're doing everything right? Are you serious? You don't think a 4300 protoss would perform better in this situation? A 5300 protoss? A 6300 protoss? A 7300 protoss? There's 4000 MMR difference between you and the best protoss, and you're telling us that you played perfectly and the game needs to be changed to fix it? | ||
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datastuff
31 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/L4O6YYQ.png) "literally did everything right" KEKW | ||
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
On January 23 2023 17:15 bela.mervado wrote: Hey Phantom. it's almost 3:10, you should be training your third unit from your first gateway. you should not get away with 1 adept no battery no full wall against 17+ lings. your probe scout and your first adept (chrono) should notice the lack of drones. there's a neat trick, you can shade your adept backward to your nat, fully wall with a gate, and save your adept. a battery or two can be of great help. you probably should send the replay to Harstem for a more detailed analysis. Thanks for the feedback but you're missing the point I'll explain below. On January 23 2023 23:12 InfCereal wrote: This post actually pisses me off. Are you deadass telling me and everyone else here, that as a 3300 MMR protoss, you're doing everything right? Are you serious? You don't think a 4300 protoss would perform better in this situation? A 5300 protoss? A 6300 protoss? A 7300 protoss? There's 4000 MMR difference between you and the best protoss, and you're telling us that you played perfectly and the game needs to be changed to fix it? You're also missing the point. I'll be as clear as possible. There is a wall, theres the core and two gateways with space between the gates to fit 1 unit. If you put a zealot/adept/sentry/stalker they should block enemy lings from passing through the opening until the unit is killed. There is a bug where in some situations, like the one pictured, even if you did everything right (putting the unit in hold position etc), zerglings will still get through, as pictured. This happens to pros as well. This is what happened with the screenshots and it's a know issue that has happened in programes. Those programes are better than me, and they, just like me still lost because of something they had no control over: an adept appearing to block the entrance and for some reason doesn't. The solution is as easy as the archon change. Increase the size of the collision of the adept/zealot sightly do that it blocks the entrance 100% of the time and not 99% of the time | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom792 Posts
On January 23 2023 23:12 InfCereal wrote: This post actually pisses me off. Are you deadass telling me and everyone else here, that as a 3300 MMR protoss, you're doing everything right? Are you serious? You don't think a 4300 protoss would perform better in this situation? A 5300 protoss? A 6300 protoss? A 7300 protoss? There's 4000 MMR difference between you and the best protoss, and you're telling us that you played perfectly and the game needs to be changed to fix it? I don't think Phantom is saying that they would've held the attack if the Adept hadn't let the Zerglings through. I think they're saying that the Adept shouldn't let Zerglings through if it's on hold position within a one hex gap. This is a pretty reasonable expectation. Context suggests that their wording ("literally did everything right") is in regards to the Zerglings pushing passed the Adept. It's not intended to be in regards to the game as a whole. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10292 Posts
If the balance team was any bit fair and competent, they would have addressed one of the stupidest (and relevant) ways pros lose games before thinking about if it'd be nice to buff Hydras and Ultras. | ||
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syndbg
43 Posts
On January 24 2023 00:45 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: I've been mentioning this too, Zealots and Adepts really need building collission increased a tiny bit so that you don't need to place them as pixel-perfect as you do now, as that requires extra effort and time (and stress). If the balance team was any bit fair and competent, they would have addressed one of the stupidest (and relevant) ways pros lose games before thinking about if it'd be nice to buff Hydras and Ultras. Suppose you actually thought a bit before immediately blaming the balance team. In that case, you'd realize that by increasing the collision size of some gateway units, you're severely affecting the potential of adepts/zealots offensively and defensively. Fewer adepts/zealots in mineral lines is a huge change, just cause protoss can't place a gateway unit. The "protoss door" is legit a skill issue. | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom792 Posts
On January 24 2023 01:01 syndbg wrote: Suppose you actually thought a bit before immediately blaming the balance team. In that case, you'd realize that by increasing the collision size of some gateway units, you're severely affecting the potential of adepts/zealots offensively and defensively. Fewer adepts/zealots in mineral lines is a huge change, just cause protoss can't place a gateway unit. The "protoss door" is legit a skill issue. Unit collision has a much larger impact on the number of Zealots/Adepts that you can cram into a mineral line. They'll be colliding with one another long before they start colliding with the town hall and/or the mineral line. | ||
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JJH777
United States4376 Posts
On January 24 2023 01:01 syndbg wrote: Suppose you actually thought a bit before immediately blaming the balance team. In that case, you'd realize that by increasing the collision size of some gateway units, you're severely affecting the potential of adepts/zealots offensively and defensively. Fewer adepts/zealots in mineral lines is a huge change, just cause protoss can't place a gateway unit. The "protoss door" is legit a skill issue. You can increase it in a way that won't realistically effect those interactions. Blaming it on a skill issue is dumb. Even when Trap won 6 premiers in like 6 months which is the most consistent literally any Toss has ever been at the pro level he still died to ling floods on occasion. It's silly that a build like can kill even the best Toss players regularly thanks to a tiny positional error. | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On January 24 2023 03:13 JJH777 wrote: You can increase it in a way that won't realistically effect those interactions. Blaming it on a skill issue is dumb. Even when Trap won 6 premiers in like 6 months which is the most consistent literally any Toss has ever been at the pro level he still died to ling floods on occasion. It's silly that a build like can kill even the best Toss players regularly thanks to a tiny positional error. Every race can lose by being out of position. Meta builds hinge on the smallest amount of units possible being in the correct position to get away with it. You'll lose every ZvT if you make 8 queens and idle them at the third - you'll lose every drone in your main and natural to 8 hellions. You'll lose PvT games if you make the correct amount of units for widow mine drop defense, and idle them out of position. Honestly this list can go on forever. Unit positioning vs mutas, ling bane runbys, zealot runbys, warp prism defense, raven harass, banshee harrass. It's all a skill issue. | ||
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
On January 24 2023 03:21 InfCereal wrote: It's all a skill issue. I'm sorry but you're examples are ridiculous. One thing is to have all your queens on your third and lose to hellions on your main that is 3 screens away, the other is to lose because your unit is 1 pixel to the side. If a unit is placed in a 1 hex space between two buildings it should either block all units from passing or if it's too small not block them at all. Not what it does currently of blocking them 90% of the time except if you put it 1 pixel to the side, Especially when: 1.-The game has an isometric view, which means it's basically impossible to see. 2.-Even if you activate the rotate camera options (which you need to hold the key for... and are super far away fromeverything) it's not perfectly clear where you need to put the unit? and it's not as if you can do it super precicely, specially taking into account the unit acceleration and movement speed of the units. And again, you won't actually know if it works until you have lings flooding into your natural. 3.-The protoss entrance is the single most important thing in a PvZ. Zerg is so strong in the early that if their units get inside your natural you insta-lose. It's not fair, logical or reasonable that in the weakest spot there is for protoss, you have a unit that will regularly block the entrance, except some times, and that it's literally a couple of pixels that decide that in a place where you can't even see clearly due to the isometric view. You cannot possibly, with a straight face compare that to having your units in a completely different base. Go look at my image again, particularly see the first photo. Look at it, there was no way for me to know the adept was going to let lings through. And this happens to the best pros. It is clearly not intended behaviour. And we know it because the zerg needs to click move command repeteadlyto push the unit. Clicking atack move or clicking on the adept will not cause the zerglings to surround the adept. It is not intended, and thus should be fixed. Zerg gets enough advantage by having most of the maps givingthem free vision over your natural. | ||
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