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On October 19 2022 01:07 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2022 16:35 luxon wrote:
mvp had 5 too, the world championship was just as hard as code s. also not to be one of those crabby old guys, but mvp played when sc2 had a much more vibrant and competitive korean and global scene. theres no code A or kespa houses or enough people to play the ept cups now.. we've lost every great player to the axe that is military service with no younger players to pick up the mantle.
i havent kept up with sc2, if theres no more gsl, what will be in place in korea for the wcs blizzard money they committed, or is that expiring too? I love Mvp and considered him the Goat up until 2019 but his GSL vs the World win was no where near as hard as a regular Code S. It was half foreigners at a time when foreigners we're way worse than Koreans. Plus it was a single elim bo3 bracket for most of it. Even if the player pool was good that format is simply not as hard. Also even counting that he's still only at 4.
I thought Inno already surpassed MVP until 2019? But Maru triumphed afterwards since he won four straight Code S titles. .
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It doesn't matter if you are Maru fan or not, but It was supposed to happen someday. I never cheered for him, but despite the lack of TY, Rogue, Inno, Zest, Parting, Maru was above all in this tournament and actually this Season 3 was very exciting to watch, despite the lack ot tosses, so totally well deserved for Maru. Very bad tournament for Dark. herO played poorly on the semi-final and this match practically decided the entire GSL. Ragnarok lacks experience to play in a final match format, so we should not blame him too much, but then Guhimo was suppose to finish him when he had the chance after all the incredible comebacks he did. In this case even anti-TvT fans woundn't mind to watch Gumi vs Maru on a final.
So yeah, congrats to Maru! Legend. Always when he plays, no matter if he is 100 supply behind I always fear that he may win anytime. I even didn't watch the whole match, just switched in the end to see Tastosis last Code S feedback and saying goodbye.
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Terrible finals. Ragnarok's 2nd place speech was the highlight.
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If only Life didn't match fix. Who knows how many GSL he would've won. He was the only non-Kespa person to win GSL during the era of Kespa dominance 2014-2015 (yes I know he joined KT a month before he won GSL). Also the most legit Royal Roader in SC2.
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On October 18 2022 16:35 luxon wrote:
mvp had 5 too, the world championship was just as hard as code s. also not to be one of those crabby old guys, but mvp played when sc2 had a much more vibrant and competitive korean and global scene. theres no code A or kespa houses or enough people to play the ept cups now.. we've lost every great player to the axe that is military service with no younger players to pick up the mantle.
i havent kept up with sc2, if theres no more gsl, what will be in place in korea for the wcs blizzard money they committed, or is that expiring too?
More vibrant, maybe, more competitive though? Unlikely. In terms of GSL I'd actually point to the 2016-2019 period being the most competitive in that you had a nice balance of all the top Korean pros and multiple GOAT contenders peaking as the game was finally settling into a nice LOTV series of metas without too many OP or unbalanced gameplay elements. The general consensus was that even pro-level play, on average, during the beta and first year or so post-release was really not super fantastic and thus the premium was on figuring out optimal builds and counters faster and better than your opponents as compared to executing on generally known, optimized builds faster and better than your opponents. You're right about today's GSL. But remember that Maru had to get through players like TY, Dark, Rogue, Trap, Zest, Classic, Inno, Soo, and Stats when they were playing at peak level to win 4 of his 5 GSLs. Perhaps you can argue that an earlier era of top-tier Koreans provided for a more competitive and challenging gauntlet to run in GSL, but doesn't seem like it to me...
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Northern Ireland27046 Posts
On October 19 2022 05:04 argonautdice wrote:
If only Life didn't match fix. Who knows how many GSL he would've won. He was the only non-Kespa person to win GSL during the era of Kespa dominance 2014-2015 (yes I know he joined KT a month before he won GSL). Also the most legit Royal Roader in SC2.
Yeah such a shame, he was a phenomenally talented SC player
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On October 19 2022 01:07 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2022 16:35 luxon wrote:
mvp had 5 too, the world championship was just as hard as code s. also not to be one of those crabby old guys, but mvp played when sc2 had a much more vibrant and competitive korean and global scene. theres no code A or kespa houses or enough people to play the ept cups now.. we've lost every great player to the axe that is military service with no younger players to pick up the mantle.
i havent kept up with sc2, if theres no more gsl, what will be in place in korea for the wcs blizzard money they committed, or is that expiring too? I love Mvp and considered him the Goat up until 2019 but his GSL vs the World win was no where near as hard as a regular Code S. It was half foreigners at a time when foreigners we're way worse than Koreans. Plus it was a single elim bo3 bracket for most of it. Even if the player pool was good that format is simply not as hard. Also even counting that he's still only at 4.
Come on, man.
Mvp's run to the World Championship win.
2-1 HuK (Code S player)
3-1 July (2nd best Zerg at that moment, finalist from the previous Code S season)
3-1 San (2nd best Protoss at the moment, semi-finalist from previous Code S season)
4-2 MarineKing (2nd best Terran at the moment, former 2x finalist)
What an easy bracket! Definitely much easier than any of his other Code S wins, right? It was also almost the same format as Code S at the time, just without a Ro32 group stage...which shouldn't be relevant when you look at his competition in his bracket.
Like sure, if his run was like, TT1, mOOnGLaDe, MorroW and anypro, you might have a point. But the way his bracket worked out, it was almost the most difficult run he could have possibly had given the players in the tournament.
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So it finally happened.. well played, GGs and congratulations!
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On October 19 2022 15:31 RPR_Tempest wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2022 01:07 JJH777 wrote:On October 18 2022 16:35 luxon wrote:
mvp had 5 too, the world championship was just as hard as code s. also not to be one of those crabby old guys, but mvp played when sc2 had a much more vibrant and competitive korean and global scene. theres no code A or kespa houses or enough people to play the ept cups now.. we've lost every great player to the axe that is military service with no younger players to pick up the mantle.
i havent kept up with sc2, if theres no more gsl, what will be in place in korea for the wcs blizzard money they committed, or is that expiring too? I love Mvp and considered him the Goat up until 2019 but his GSL vs the World win was no where near as hard as a regular Code S. It was half foreigners at a time when foreigners we're way worse than Koreans. Plus it was a single elim bo3 bracket for most of it. Even if the player pool was good that format is simply not as hard. Also even counting that he's still only at 4. Come on, man. Mvp's run to the World Championship win. 2-1 HuK (Code S player) 3-1 July (2nd best Zerg at that moment, finalist from the previous Code S season) 3-1 San (2nd best Protoss at the moment, semi-finalist from previous Code S season) 4-2 MarineKing (2nd best Terran at the moment, former 2x finalist) What an easy bracket! Definitely much easier than any of his other Code S wins, right? It was also almost the same format as Code S at the time, just without a Ro32 group stage...which shouldn't be relevant when you look at his competition in his bracket. Like sure, if his run was like, TT1, mOOnGLaDe, MorroW and anypro, you might have a point. But the way his bracket worked out, it was almost the most difficult run he could have possibly had given the players in the tournament.
Considering he lost in groups of the next Code S season I'd saythe lack of a group stage is very relevant. I also can't agree with your rankings of those players considering pretty much all of them never had anymore great runs after that. If you compare the paths to his Code S wins it is much easier.
A world championship with half non KR and done mostly on invites is not as hard as code S especially not back then.
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On October 20 2022 00:42 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2022 15:31 RPR_Tempest wrote:On October 19 2022 01:07 JJH777 wrote:On October 18 2022 16:35 luxon wrote:
mvp had 5 too, the world championship was just as hard as code s. also not to be one of those crabby old guys, but mvp played when sc2 had a much more vibrant and competitive korean and global scene. theres no code A or kespa houses or enough people to play the ept cups now.. we've lost every great player to the axe that is military service with no younger players to pick up the mantle.
i havent kept up with sc2, if theres no more gsl, what will be in place in korea for the wcs blizzard money they committed, or is that expiring too? I love Mvp and considered him the Goat up until 2019 but his GSL vs the World win was no where near as hard as a regular Code S. It was half foreigners at a time when foreigners we're way worse than Koreans. Plus it was a single elim bo3 bracket for most of it. Even if the player pool was good that format is simply not as hard. Also even counting that he's still only at 4. Come on, man. Mvp's run to the World Championship win. 2-1 HuK (Code S player) 3-1 July (2nd best Zerg at that moment, finalist from the previous Code S season) 3-1 San (2nd best Protoss at the moment, semi-finalist from previous Code S season) 4-2 MarineKing (2nd best Terran at the moment, former 2x finalist) What an easy bracket! Definitely much easier than any of his other Code S wins, right? It was also almost the same format as Code S at the time, just without a Ro32 group stage...which shouldn't be relevant when you look at his competition in his bracket. Like sure, if his run was like, TT1, mOOnGLaDe, MorroW and anypro, you might have a point. But the way his bracket worked out, it was almost the most difficult run he could have possibly had given the players in the tournament. Considering he lost in groups of the next Code S season I'd saythe lack of a group stage is very relevant. I also can't agree with your rankings of those players considering pretty much all of them never had anymore great runs after that. If you compare the paths to his Code S wins it is much easier. A world championship with half non KR and done mostly on invites is not as hard as code S especially not back then.
And if we really want to get technical, those 2011 GSL Code S group stages were kind of a joke. For example, the 2011 January GSL that Mvp won, the group stages were best of ones in Ro32 and Ro16. And the 2011 August GSL that Mvp won was Bo1 in Ro32 and single elimination Bo3 in Ro16.
Mvp only had to win 14 games to win that GSL. Even this most recent least impressive GSL Maru won with its much reduced format and pretty much the minimum number of games played he had to win 17 games to get the gold.
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In a weird way, I hope GSL kind of just ends here. A player, Maru of all, gets the only G5L, a classic lopsided finals, Artosis’ final cast. It’s kind of perfect.
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On October 19 2022 03:15 ejozl wrote:
Terrible finals. Ragnarok's 2nd place speech was the highlight.
Maru used a different opener for each game and made it work. The 2-base into blue-flame opener was especially insane.
Nerves were the biggest factor. Ragnarok doesn't have the kind of experience as Maru when it comes to finals in GSL.
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Northern Ireland27046 Posts
On October 20 2022 07:02 Pentarp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2022 03:15 ejozl wrote:
Terrible finals. Ragnarok's 2nd place speech was the highlight. Maru used a different opener for each game and made it work. The 2-base into blue-flame opener was especially insane. Nerves were the biggest factor. Ragnarok doesn't have the kind of experience as Maru when it comes to finals in GSL.
He’s a good player, there’s a bit of a quality gap there.
The cupboard is looking increasingly bare when it comes to your real, title-challenging quality of players
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Lol if people count Mvp's GSL World Championship to let him have 4 titles tthen Maru's GSL Super Tournament gives him 6.
And even with a free extra title Mvp didn't get G5L and Maru did.
Not to mention Maru's 2013 season 2 title would have counted had OGN not had the broadcast rights and named it OSL just for that one season.
The comparisons are long gone.
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On October 20 2022 07:02 Pentarp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2022 03:15 ejozl wrote:
Terrible finals. Ragnarok's 2nd place speech was the highlight. Maru used a different opener for each game and made it work. The 2-base into blue-flame opener was especially insane. Nerves were the biggest factor. Ragnarok doesn't have the kind of experience as Maru when it comes to finals in GSL.
I'm pretty sure the first time that blue-flame build into mech was used was by MVP vs. Life in the match the G5L trophy was made for (and the first chance anyone had to win it) -- if he didn't invent it, it definitely hadn't been used in high-level play often at all. Insane how things come full circle.
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GG Maru! Is it true this is the last GSL ever?
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EPT
