[/QUOTE] unfortunately i think when players leave league that resets their games played. idk if a single player has ever gotten a single better tournament result because they left their league on ladder in the weeks preceding the match, but in any case there are a lot of serial league leavers messing up the stats
.[/QUOTE]
I do not believe that is the case because ruff constantly leaves league and im pretty sure they still show up on his profile. I think the nature of protoss and terran builds and scouting right now really leads to protoss having an advantage on ladder inflating their mmr. I'm an M1 terran and even at my level it feels like the protoss 100% of the time knows what build im doing at all times but I still have to win vs them. And on my end I can know protoss is doing a voidray tempest build and still really struggle to hold. Or they could be doing a number of different strong build orders that need different responses to each and you have to figure it out within a second because some of them will come within 15-30 seconds of scouting like the chargelot all in. It is just not fun to play right now.
unfortunately i think when players leave league that resets their games played. idk if a single player has ever gotten a single better tournament result because they left their league on ladder in the weeks preceding the match, but in any case there are a lot of serial league leavers messing up the stats
.[/QUOTE]
I do not believe that is the case because ruff constantly leaves league and im pretty sure they still show up on his profile. I think the nature of protoss and terran builds and scouting right now really leads to protoss having an advantage on ladder inflating their mmr. I'm an M1 terran and even at my level it feels like the protoss 100% of the time knows what build im doing at all times but I still have to win vs them. And on my end I can know protoss is doing a voidray tempest build and still really struggle to hold. Or they could be doing a number of different strong build orders that need different responses to each and you have to figure it out within a second because some of them will come within 15-30 seconds of scouting like the chargelot all in. It is just not fun to play right now. [/QUOTE]
Demuslim think Protoss are having more fun in EU, that’s why there are more Protoss players. Having more openings definitely can make it more fun to play Protoss.
On July 23 2021 06:34 MockHamill wrote: The easiest solution that would be to increase shield battery cost to 150 minerals. It would weaken proxy void rays - which currently is too strong.
It would also be a very slight nerf to greedy Protoss builds that only get a few early units due to dirt cheap batteries.
That is actually a great idea. most of the time ideas in these threads are awful.
On July 23 2021 07:29 Obamarauder wrote: you're literally half a year late, vP is the most common matchup for a while. stop making a thread about it like its some kinda news
Well, just read through the comments in this thread. It's obviously news to a lot of people here if you read the comments, especially on the first page.
And no, this was not a major problem even 6 months ago. I have been watching HeroMarine's stream for some time and it was not a major problem 6 months ago. It was not a major problem with Demuslim last year either when I watched his stream.
I has been a problem for a while but it has gotten much worse the past couple seasons. It has even started to effect lower mmr people like m1-m3 level.
Void rays would be manageable if they didn’t fire while chasing or moving. I don’t think SC2 “is in a garbage state” or carry the same doom and gloom from others here, but Void Rays in particular are such a bore and easily the most frustrating thing to play against as a random player. I wouldn’t mind removing them completely from the game and buffing oracles / tempests.
Just stop trying to bring balance into it, the only success protoss has had at pro level over the years is because of some new innovative way to play protoss , then it gets figured out and protoss starts performing poorly until they manage to create some new suprise build. (starting to run out of ways to innovate at this point). Everyone was crying OP at void ray buff , got still to see protoss win a premier tournament.
Master terran here. When playing off race, Zerg is very hard and protoss easy.
I played a few hundred games of random but Zerg would lose to my Terran 100% while my protoss would go 50/50.
Protoss have all the beginner friendly features in the game and feels very forgiving. Protoss feels like the best race and very fun units to use too. Zergs units are really boring. When doing 3v3 the only fun thing is banelings or infestors.
Heromarine went through data on stream too. Seemed very convincing on how zergs sorta quit and also never replenished
On July 22 2021 01:37 Andi_Goldberger wrote: on the pylon show today serral and reynor said they like to play customs. this obviously really skews the top 50 ladder if both of those are missing.
the obsession with protoss being easy and OP both parts of bw and sc2 community have is kind of crazy imo. I feel like its just a really entrenched narrative thats so integrated in the way people think about the game, no matter how the balance is, there is are always gonna be people mad about protoss.
Protoss is the best BO1 race though. It's the reason why Protoss is so much hated in the SC2. Many cheeses, warp in, warp prism etc. And if you're mechanically good enough and you don't mind rotating 3 or 4 cheeses/all ins you will have a good time on the ladder. Of course you won't be a good tournament player but these people are not tournament players so they don't care.
On July 23 2021 10:35 Husyelt wrote: Void rays would be manageable if they didn’t fire while chasing or moving. I don’t think SC2 “is in a garbage state” or carry the same doom and gloom from others here, but Void Rays in particular are such a bore and easily the most frustrating thing to play against as a random player. I wouldn’t mind removing them completely from the game and buffing oracles / tempests.
Sure. Queens, shield batteries, zerg winning every world championship since the Blizzcon 2017. Peachy state. Why are people dissatisfied, I wonder?
On July 23 2021 18:08 Drahkn wrote: Just stop trying to bring balance into it, the only success protoss has had at pro level over the years is because of some new innovative way to play protoss , then it gets figured out and protoss starts performing poorly until they manage to create some new suprise build. (starting to run out of ways to innovate at this point). Everyone was crying OP at void ray buff , got still to see protoss win a premier tournament.
Premiere tournaments of 2021 which were won by Protoss: DH SC2 Masters 2020: Last Chance 2021 - Trap 2021 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament 1 - Trap 2021 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament 2 - Trap DH SC2 Masters 2021 Summer: North America - Neeb NeXT 2021 S1–SC2 Masters - Trap TeamLiquid StarLeague 7 - Trap
On July 23 2021 19:09 deacon.frost wrote: Premiere tournaments of 2021 which were won by Protoss: DH SC2 Masters 2020: Last Chance 2021 - Trap 2021 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament 1 - Trap 2021 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament 2 - Trap DH SC2 Masters 2021 Summer: North America - Neeb NeXT 2021 S1–SC2 Masters - Trap TeamLiquid StarLeague 7 - Trap
heh, out of 10 premier tournaments i n2021 Protoss won 6 Mwahahahahaha
Trap also won the 2020 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament 2 at the very end of 2020, which was a Premier tournament.
Thanks for posting these results. Protoss has won many premier tournaments over the last 10 months. I don't know why people keep claiming they didn't, but the actual premier tournament results speak for themselves.
On July 23 2021 19:09 deacon.frost wrote: Premiere tournaments of 2021 which were won by Protoss: DH SC2 Masters 2020: Last Chance 2021 - Trap 2021 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament 1 - Trap 2021 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament 2 - Trap DH SC2 Masters 2021 Summer: North America - Neeb NeXT 2021 S1–SC2 Masters - Trap TeamLiquid StarLeague 7 - Trap
heh, out of 10 premier tournaments i n2021 Protoss won 6 Mwahahahahaha
Trap also won the 2020 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament 2 at the very end of 2020, which was a Premier tournament.
Thanks for posting these results. Protoss has won many premier tournaments over the last 10 months. I don't know why people keep claiming they didn't, but the actual premier tournament results speak for themselves.
To be fair, apart from Neeb winning one NA-only event, it's only Trap.
On July 23 2021 19:09 deacon.frost wrote: Premiere tournaments of 2021 which were won by Protoss: DH SC2 Masters 2020: Last Chance 2021 - Trap 2021 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament 1 - Trap 2021 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament 2 - Trap DH SC2 Masters 2021 Summer: North America - Neeb NeXT 2021 S1–SC2 Masters - Trap TeamLiquid StarLeague 7 - Trap
heh, out of 10 premier tournaments i n2021 Protoss won 6 Mwahahahahaha
Trap also won the 2020 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament 2 at the very end of 2020, which was a Premier tournament.
Thanks for posting these results. Protoss has won many premier tournaments over the last 10 months. I don't know why people keep claiming they didn't, but the actual premier tournament results speak for themselves.
To be fair, apart from Neeb winning one NA-only event, it's only Trap.
And Trap isn't Protoss? Like sure, we can debate about the fact that the last 8(?) world champions are zergs. But you cannot just say - nahnahnah Protoss can't win - nahnahnah. Because there's no other top Protoss player except Trap. Who else? Stats? In the army now. herO just returned, but even before his departure he wasn't exactly the top level. Parting, sOs? Nope. One day Zoun. Maybe Zest if he gets his former form - he's IMO closer to it than sOs.
The fact that Protoss is lacking good players is well known and documented. This isn't exactly a balance issue as more of a - low talent pool issue.
And to be fair - Trap isn't showing something which cannot be reproduced. He's no Maru or Byun. Or Dark. So yea, only Trap wins, because the rest is not as good.
Edit> Just in the last 2 years we lost herO, Stats, Classic
Also 2 Trap's finals were against Zoun
Edit 2> And the 2020 Trap's title was against Stats. Out of his 7 2020/2021 titles 3 were won in PvP. So the narrative it's just Trap and that Protoss can't win a premier tournament is kinda iffy.
I think its funny how everyone immediately ties this to balance. I think this argumentation can work both ways. So there are countless protoss players in GM and yet none of them gets even close to decent results in EU tournaments. Only 2 made the top 8 and the very best result Protoss had in all 4 seasons of the new DH format was 1 Protoss in the top 6, in the latest season the last protoss dropped out in the ro8. So how is it possible that so many Protoss players are around the 6k level but none of them can take on the top zergs/terrans? That just makes no sense with so many players being there and the race allegedly being way too strong.
On July 23 2021 21:05 Seracis wrote: I think its funny how everyone immediately ties this to balance. I think this argumentation can work both ways. So there are countless protoss players in GM and yet none of them gets even close to decent results in EU tournaments. Only 2 made the top 8 and the very best result Protoss had in all 4 seasons of the new DH format was 1 Protoss in the top 6, in the latest season the last protoss dropped out in the ro8. So how is it possible that so many Protoss players are around the 6k level but none of them can take on the top zergs/terrans? That just makes no sense with so many players being there and the race allegedly being way too strong.
On a global scale, protoss won around 375k$+ this year, compared to 304k$+ from zerg and 324k$+ from terran (from a few days ago, probably needs an update with recent gsl results etc). I am not sure the top 8 race representation from EU DH is that good of an indicator
On July 23 2021 21:05 Seracis wrote: I think its funny how everyone immediately ties this to balance. I think this argumentation can work both ways. So there are countless protoss players in GM and yet none of them gets even close to decent results in EU tournaments. Only 2 made the top 8 and the very best result Protoss had in all 4 seasons of the new DH format was 1 Protoss in the top 6, in the latest season the last protoss dropped out in the ro8. So how is it possible that so many Protoss players are around the 6k level but none of them can take on the top zergs/terrans? That just makes no sense with so many players being there and the race allegedly being way too strong.
ehm
So there are countless protoss players in GM and yet none of them gets even close to decent results in EU tournaments.
Countless? There are 200 players in the EU GM, I bet you can count to 200. None of them gets even close to a decent result. Let's analyze this. How many of those countless GM Protoss EU players atended the DH EU?
And considering this game was never balanced towards the ladder we can talk about the balance on the ladder. Ladder is inherently 1v1 - I meant BO1 obviously. And the game really isn't balanced around that otherwise we would see more pressure on the amount of opening and variability of cheeses across the races.
On July 23 2021 21:05 Seracis wrote: I think its funny how everyone immediately ties this to balance. I think this argumentation can work both ways. So there are countless protoss players in GM and yet none of them gets even close to decent results in EU tournaments. Only 2 made the top 8 and the very best result Protoss had in all 4 seasons of the new DH format was 1 Protoss in the top 6, in the latest season the last protoss dropped out in the ro8. So how is it possible that so many Protoss players are around the 6k level but none of them can take on the top zergs/terrans? That just makes no sense with so many players being there and the race allegedly being way too strong.
The reason there is so many in GM is because they have easy styles to play that are incredibly hard to deal with. They might not be styles that win tournaments but they ruin the game for everyone else, and reduce peoples motivation to play ladder. It is obvious to everyone that plays the game what the problem is. At some point you can't be bothered to play against skytoss and shield batteries anymore and stop logging on
EPT
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