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DSF
United States7 Posts
Just to confirm, these units revealed are official units that are being tested and played with in the current version of StarCraft II. Feel free to speculate, but always know that there is more information about all of these units, that'll be released over the coming months. In the words of Dustin, "Nothing you see here is FINAL." Enjoy  http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=sc-general&t=209320&p=5 (EDIT: We can safely assume Zerg will be the last race to have info released) | ||
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quasi -QS-
United States109 Posts
I don't agree with everything I've seen in SC2, but whining about stuff we hardly know anything about is ridiculous. Also, Metzen is a horrible artist who clearly doesn't understand anything about structure, or perspective. I don't get how any of you think Metzen's artwork is better than what we have seen in SC2 so far. You guys are incredibly blinded with nostalgia. Seeing how DoW is based in the Warhammer40k universe, and Starcraft already has several stolen ideas from WH40k, it doesn't seem that crazy. | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32278 Posts
On July 17 2007 16:26 Frits wrote: This seems so uninspirational and un-blizzard like, thor straight rip from dreadnaughts from dow and the sensor dome from tiberian sun. You mean like Zerglings? And Marines? And almost everything from brood war? Blizzard didnt create most of those units. Just like Tolkkien didnt invent Elves. That doesnt mean they can do an amazing job with that. | ||
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IntoTheWow
is awesome32278 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28786 Posts
valkyries got their name from norse mythology so wouldnt be surprised if a sc2 unit did too. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
http://www.battle.net/images/broodwar/pix/wall/xmasprev.jpg Just wanted to remind blizzard what a dark templar looks like. That's some ghetto-ass weapon he's holding in the magazine scans =[ | ||
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crazie-penguin
United States1253 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On July 17 2007 17:18 InRaged wrote: If you played TA you shouldn't be offensive to Sensor dome at all. There was exactly same building. Sensor dome makes Terran more distinct from other two. It's as imba as protoss ability to teleport their units. And if sensor dome is total replacement to comsat, then Terran rather suffers that gains. Uh if the sensor dome works like it sounds it does, ie constantly revealing unit movement all over the map (the first time I read it I thought this was what it did, maybe I'm wrong and it's just a weaker scanner) it's the worst addition to the game I've ever heard of. It would remove - Surprise attacks - Hidden expansions COMPLETELY. The TA radars worked in TA I guess, but would suck for SC. | ||
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ManWithCheese
Canada246 Posts
The DT and HT also don't look to bad in-game either: http://media.pc.ign.com/media/850/850126/img_4704598.html http://media.pc.ign.com/media/850/850126/img_4704601.html You can't judge properly how units look by those crappy shots in the magazine. | ||
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tripleoptiks
United States30 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
Masses of terran CCs laying waste to the enemy hahaha I hope there'll be a patch where that's the most used terran strategy, like the Night Elf mass building rushes of old hahahaha, I take back any bad comments about it, this is gonna rock ;D | ||
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gravity
Australia2094 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28786 Posts
apparently the phrase tone it down doesn't exist on this planet | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
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Frits
11782 Posts
On July 17 2007 17:43 IntoTheWow wrote: You mean like Zerglings? And Marines? And almost everything from brood war? Blizzard didnt create most of those units. Just like Tolkkien didnt invent Elves. That doesnt mean they can do an amazing job with that. Yeah you're right, still some of the stuff just didn't seem too awesome to me on first glance that's all. The idea of melee vehicles isn't too bad except for the description which leads me to believe it'll have too much hp. (Even though it's just alpha.) The graphics of the vehicle looked sweet though. Hope it's featured in some badass cinematics. Some of the naming is also pretty cool so far, I really like mythical stuff like Thor and such instead of generic crap. (like soul hunter imo =[) It'd be so much easier to judge though when seeing their hp, and see them going at it ingame, now it's just guessing. Pretty weird that they show them in weirdass magazines before releasing the damn things on the official site. Some of the concepts are pretty nice, the supply depot thingey seems pretty useless to me though. And the sensor array.. well I guess it could work as long as it has a pretty small radius or something, (Something like a turret radius x2 or 2.5) Anyways I'm still positive as hell about it. :p | ||
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InRaged
1047 Posts
On July 17 2007 18:12 FrozenArbiter wrote: Uh if the sensor dome works like it sounds it does, ie constantly revealing unit movement all over the map (the first time I read it I thought this was what it did, maybe I'm wrong and it's just a weaker scanner) it's the worst addition to the game I've ever heard of. It would remove - Surprise attacks - Hidden expansions COMPLETELY. The TA radars worked in TA I guess, but would suck for SC. It worked in TA and will work in SC (if it's same building) cause all what player gains is dots on minimap. It won't remove surprise attacks - player still should check what unit type is under the dot. How will be terran confused when he'll see 2 floods of dots following in completely different directions? And he should guess which of them is flood of zerglings and which of ultralisks. Nydus worms and Phase Prisms just created to surprise. Also don't forget that today's terran is differs from sc2 terran. Looking at Blizzard progress they are trying to make heavily defended turtling machine. SD fills great there, I think. And Thor ;P On July 17 2007 19:06 fusionsdf wrote: starcraft 2 = spiderman 3 lol. The most random comparison ever | ||
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
When I first read the sensor dome deal, I actually thought the function of it would be in addition to regular scanners... and that it would basically be a really really far reaching tower combined with comstat such that cloaked units had no chance. So it sounded way better when Luhh wrote his bit. ((I just read your more recent post... I guess you were thinking the same thing. OK, i wasn't crazy, heh)) But I will admit, since Terran are so prevalent with the pros, I've been looking for things that may be just a tiny bit too good with Terrans- see my worker thread for the SCV argument. Now don't get me wrong... I was praising scanners in another thread b/c it seemed to alleviate the balance between guessing tech or not. But I'd like to see all races have good scouting options, not just Terran. I definitely do NOT want Terrans to have mana scanners and super anti-cloak, anti-fog of war towers at the same time. Now, FA, you really have made me think hard on this which is a good thing. Do I consider comstat to be too good? I dunno... lemme try to make sense of this. I'll lay down some of the pros and cons of comstat scans at least IMO. Pros: 1. Makes Terran unique. Other races use units for the scouting and detecting roles. 2. Gives Terrans the best anti-cloak options of any race vs other race matchup. Without it early game, a Terran, it can be argued, would have to overdefend vs dark temps and lurkers. (See #1 in Cons). 3. Gives the Terrans options on build order... can go marine/medic/tank vs Protoss instead of metal. In other words, have a chance vs DTs. 4. Allows for a few options with Tank Vs Tank wars. 5. They help even the score a tiny bit against maphackers. 6. Probably necessary against some observer + carrier situations so that ghosts and wraiths are effective. 7. The races in SC seem pretty darn balanced, so I can't say comstat it just obviously too good. Cons: 1. Gives Terrans the best anti-cloak options of any race vs other race matchup. Vs P and Z combined with the often needed spidermines vs P and the needed Vessels/turrets vs Zerg, it does eventually turn into the best anti-cloak combo for any race. Imbalanced? In the last 100 replays or VODs I've watched I think I've only seen greedy Terrans (it's amazing how frequent fast expand is now) die from Dark Temp rushes, and i don't think I've seen one terran lose to lurkers early in the game. Protoss can get caught off guard by lurkers (usually as a delaying situation, but they can win games) and dark temps (they win games) since observers aren't a convenient tech route early on in PvP or PvZ, but sometimes you badly need it (guessing). A lot of pro Protoss go observer fairly quick anyway in these matches just in case. And now it seems the default build for P v T is going quick observers to counter spidermines, which in combination with other factors, basically limits Protoss offense against Terran early on. We've all seen Zerg die from dark temps lately, but again, I think it's a slight greed problem and overconfidence. Vs Zerg, the scans really help the Terran move freely throughout the map without much risk of losing a Vessel or marines mid and late game unless they just get too sloppy I think. I see too many pro games where Vessels don't die vs Zerg that have scourge out the wazoo, and the scanner is part of the reason. 2. Gives Terran the best chance at scouting tech against all matchups. 3. For 100 mineral, 100 gas, and a bit of time, Terran have 8 Observers that are invulnerable and can travel anywhere instantaneously (Ok, you may onlyhotkey one scanner, but close enough). That is really really powerful if you think of it like that. 4. Terrans don't have cannons or sunkens to take on cloaked units at home automatically. But, they do have the cheapest tower, and plenty of ranged units and a bunker option. I'm not so sure the scanner evens it out as much as it makes dark temps kinda a sucky gamble against Terran... unless they are just too greedy. Even the mana regens so quickly with two scanners that you'll never be hurting for a scan vs dark temps or lurkers. 5. Scans are almost freebie. The are the most easy, inexpensive, reactive (no planning needed), quickly deployed, and safest way to scout, check tech, check expos, check army size, check for army position, detect cloak, etc. If a Terran is about to engage you, he KNOWS EXACTLY what you have where he's about to attack. How many lurkers/scourge/sunkens/spores/casters(EMP,irrad), where they are and whether to engage or not. Terrans can scan at perfect intervals so that the pros 80% of the time catch the enemy tech options without even losing a unit to find out. Let's not forget that Terran have the best anti-scouting early game due to marines and walloffs to further this divide. 6. Scans are undefendable. Like a fireball shot at you from the defensive characters in street fighter 2, you can't hit it or hurt the scan from the hard to crack Terran because they might be lying in wait with a dragon punch. In Street Fighter 3, parries were introduced due to the fireball situation. In SC, the scan gives the Terran tactical options that are much harder to come by with Zerg and Toss. There is no real "defense" against a scan other than building gateways and tech in the middle of nowhere, which is often risky. 7. Terrans can scan then walk safely anywhere. Or scan and drop with a perfectly prepared force... ok well the enemy will see the scan and possibly prepare better if he has time, but you know what i mean. 8. You know scans are really good when EVERY terran builds them practically every game (except cheese situations). I don't think you can say that about any other non-worker "unit" for P or Z except maybe the zergling. And the dragoon comes close. But they are fighter units... totally different situation. Zerg also has nice scouting, but the slow overlord speed (this was nerfed from fullspeed in the sc beta... it was just way too good at it's full speed from the start of the game) basically counters this being too good in sc1. Observers come fairly late, are slow, low hp, and cost gas so... they are quite good late game when you can afford to pepper the map with them and can sometimes win games... otherwise they are just sufficient. If the new dome thingies are replacements for scanners, and if they'd work the same as scanners except not show what buildings/how much static defense was there so that Terran wouldn't know exactly what to face unless he sent an actual scout, spending a bit more time and resources, like the rest of the races, then I can see the argument for a rebalance. If comstat is too good, or if they want to rebalance it, I can see where limiting a scan to only units and not buildings could be more balanced especially IF the other races don't have good scouting. I say keep it, but give the other races equally good scouting options. Parasite with affordable/quicker queens, and a cheapter robotics facility or something maybe. Summary? I dunno. I won't say scanners are just outright too good. But I also can't condemn a rethink of them without knowing the scouting options of other races. | ||
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
Surely, this is placeholder art, huh?! High Templar looked (really good) better in the movies... this one just looked like it had a human/elf face and its arms are bent awkwardly from that angle. Other than that, I'm fine with a bit of the mage look. Terran [EDIT: mech] units look way too fat for me. [Well, maybe the Thor fits... hmmm]. Supply depot, wow. Thor reminds me of the mechs in the matrix... 2, 3? But did someone say it's melee??? If so, very interesting. Like an Ultra ... balancing out the snowball affect of all 99% range units for Terran?! The ghost actually fits my image of terran pretty well... which I got from playing the game and not having any single player experience for months. I guess I never did see them as being gritty cowboy humans, which is probably what they were meant to be, huh? I see them as being the cleancut, with a twist, good guys. Wrong, I know... first impressions often stick. | ||
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naventus
United States1337 Posts
1. If we don't do it and just claim that it will change, who will bitch for us? 2. Just because it's an alpha doesn't mean that everything can get overhauled like how they were in SC1. They fucking redid the entire engine -> something that's just not going to happen today given how complex graphics engines are. You can point out, however, that WC3 changed dramatically from the initial alpha/beta to the final release. However, the changes that were made in that period actually stripped more diversity from the game - when they couldn't figure out how to balance the dramatically different systems (and made few cosmetic changes). My point is this: we should be fucking concerned about the aesthetics of the game - even if you think it's bearable, like I said, it might not change if WE don't put pressure on Blizzard. | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On July 17 2007 19:22 InRaged wrote: It worked in TA and will work in SC (if it's same building) cause all what player gains is dots on minimap. It won't remove surprise attacks - player still should check what unit type is under the dot. How will be terran confused when he'll see 2 floods of dots following in completely different directions? And he should guess which of them is flood of zerglings and which of ultralisks. Nydus worms and Phase Prisms just created to surprise. Also don't forget that today's terran is differs from sc2 terran. Looking at Blizzard progress they are trying to make heavily defended turtling machine. SD fills great there, I think. And Thor ;P lol. The most random comparison ever A heavily defending turtle machine = bad. And dude, you seriously can't see how a radar like this would completely remove any kind of hidden expansions/buildings or drops? Which of these two things do you think are more likely to happen with the radar: "Ohhh, look, a huge blob of dots is moving across the map approaching the side of my base - I'll just send all of my army to my main and rape the dozen overlords coming to drop!" "Oh look, the enemy decided to randomly send a bunch of units to that island expansion all across the map, I guess they are just having a BBQ, I'll just leave them alone and ignore it" | ||
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