New Terran Units shown from Swedish mag scans?

On July 17 2007 13:26 Salle79 wrote:
It's the real deal, its from the swedish magazine "Super Play"
here is the image of the cover where it says Starcraft II:
http://www.superplay.se/general/article131279.ece

On July 17 2007 13:09 sushiman wrote:
I do hope that's not the new design of the dark templar, it looks like some creep from WC3 combined with a wow raidset. ;P
Sensor dome would be extremely imba if its effect was permanent, so hopefully not. And first thing that came into my mind when I saw that Thor thingy was 'Krogoth' (anyone that's played TA will know what I mean ).

On July 17 2007 13:35 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
it just keeps getting worse

On July 17 2007 13:43 FrozenArbiter wrote:

Yes - -;;

I don't mind terribly if they are just a replacement for the goliaths.. But I don't want a 500000000000000000000000000 hp gigantic walking deathlaser robot like what I remember the krogoth was.

Took like 15 minutes to build as well =[

On July 17 2007 13:44 paper wrote:


QFT -_-

WHY THE MODELS SO UGLY?!
i wish they'd stick to the starcraft theme i know and love T_T

On July 17 2007 13:57 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:


Insert unrealistically zoomed in picture of the original StarCraft Marine here:
+ Show Spoiler +

I know, the old StarCraft units look absolutely AMAZING compared to the new ones.

On July 17 2007 14:05 sc0rchedst0rm wrote:
I keep reminding myself that SC had flying workers and Larvae at every Zerg building and all manner of outlandish looking unit models when it was still in Alpha.

And SC2 hasn't even got that far yet.

On July 17 2007 14:01 DTDominion wrote:


I know your post is trying to be sarcasm, but really; all the new StarCraft models are inferior to the designs in the first game.

On July 17 2007 14:09 ArC_man wrote:
Oh boy, I can't wait for the Terran Odin. Might as well add in some of the Greek/Roman gods as well.
*Still waiting for Terran Gundams*

On July 17 2007 14:10 Flaccid wrote:
Whatever man. I think it's cool. But then again, I'm looking forward to a new game.

On July 17 2007 14:16 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:


Nine years of familiarity and nostalgia associated to the old units does not mean they have a better design. The first time I saw a reaver, I thought it looked rediculous, but now I love it. Starcraft does NOT have amazing graphics and unit models, everyone knows that (at least I thought). It's just the super cool story and top-notch gameplay that make the dull graphics insignificant.

Basically, it's getting annoying and redundant to hear people constantly bitching about how they don't like the new graphics when sc's graphics were nothing to shake a stick at. If you think I'm wrong, show me an example where a sc unit model is clearly better than a scII model.

On July 17 2007 14:16 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:


Nine years of familiarity and nostalgia associated to the old units does not mean they have a better design. The first time I saw a reaver, I thought it looked rediculous, but now I love it. Starcraft does NOT have amazing graphics and unit models, everyone knows that (at least I thought). It's just the super cool story and top-notch gameplay that make the dull graphics insignificant.

Basically, it's getting annoying and redundant to hear people constantly bitching about how they don't like the new graphics when sc's graphics were nothing to shake a stick at. If you think I'm wrong, show me an example where a sc unit model is clearly better than a scII model.

On July 17 2007 14:06 mikeymoo wrote:
I'm gonna doubt the legitimacy of these. Blizzard wouldn't "release" so many units at once.

On July 17 2007 14:18 FrozenArbiter wrote:

I'm looking forward to a new game that is not retarded (sensor dome).

On July 17 2007 13:23 Luhh wrote:
I think the sensor dome is a nerfed terran scan. Think about it:

1) can only see units, not buildings and tech.
2) will probably make a scan in a certain radius.

My guess anyway. Because the terran scan was kind of cheesy in the lucky way a terran could scout a build.


About the units:

Transformer: meh, ok sure. But I don't like the artwork on it.

Thor, huk? Is this the terrans mothermech?

Planetary fortress, sure. Terran was the most defensive race afterall. As long as it's not too powerful on defense.

On July 17 2007 13:57 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:




I know, the old StarCraft units look absolutely AMAZING compared to the new ones.

On July 17 2007 14:36 GTR-2-Go wrote:
Or a Protoss Zhuge Liang, or a Zerg Sima Yi, huh, huh?

On July 17 2007 15:58 paper wrote:


what the fuck are you talking about o_oV
Why is the 2008 Honda Civic so ugly!?
I know, the old 1975 civic looks absolutely AMAZING compared to the new ones.

Does that make any fucking sense?

No.

There's no denying that some of the models are just so shitty in terms of appearance, e.g. tank, ghost, dt's weapon wtf? What's with these bulky models too? Did the developers recently watch Transformers and decide it would add to the "cool" factor? -__-

On July 17 2007 14:43 Phyre wrote:
I would have never guessed that was a DT and the HT looks meh. The Ghost also looks awful. Granted, that is probably what the Ghost would look like if they enlarged the original sprite but they really don't look the way I would have envisioned them from their unit portrait. Needs more black/dark colors on their uniform. Seriously, what assassin would want to wear white tights?

On July 17 2007 16:13 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:


Here is what my post was mainly referring to, as you would have known if you had looked at who I was quoting:

"WHY THE MODELS SO UGLY?!
i wish they'd stick to the starcraft theme i know and love T_T"

Your example of the Honda Civic illustrates my point exactly. If I were to say "The 1975 Civic is a much better car than the 2008 Civic" you would probably laugh in my face. Same thing with the SC units.

All I'm trying to say is that the new units look a hell of a lot better to me than the old ones. I don't expect blizzard to shit out perfect 3D models of units right away, I have faith that they will make the units looks great in the end. It's especially annoying that the same people who are big supporters of "we don't care about the graphics as much as the gameplay" are the same ones screaming "ZOMG THE NEW UNITS ARE UGLY!" Give me a break.

On July 17 2007 14:58 Blacklizard wrote:



[edit] [I hope ] what you said about the sensor dome vs scanner is true. Terran should be a little more in line with the other races on major things like checking tech, etc. I still think there should be clean ways to scout for all races though, that don't require a complete tech switch for one unit (corsair), that leaves you open to the tech you are checking for by the time you get it.

On July 17 2007 13:09 sushiman wrote:
I do hope that's not the new design of the dark templar, it looks like some creep from WC3 combined with a wow raidset. ;P
Sensor dome would be extremely imba if its effect was permanent, so hopefully not. And first thing that came into my mind when I saw that Thor thingy was 'Krogoth' (anyone that's played TA will know what I mean ).

On July 17 2007 16:26 Frits wrote:
This seems so uninspirational and un-blizzard like, thor straight rip from dreadnaughts from dow and the sensor dome from tiberian sun.

On July 17 2007 17:18 InRaged wrote:

If you played TA you shouldn't be offensive to Sensor dome at all. There was exactly same building.
Sensor dome makes Terran more distinct from other two. It's as imba as protoss ability to teleport their units.
And if sensor dome is total replacement to comsat, then Terran rather suffers that gains.

On July 17 2007 17:43 IntoTheWow wrote:


You mean like Zerglings? And Marines? And almost everything from brood war? Blizzard didnt create most of those units. Just like Tolkkien didnt invent Elves. That doesnt mean they can do an amazing job with that.

On July 17 2007 18:12 FrozenArbiter wrote:

Uh if the sensor dome works like it sounds it does, ie constantly revealing unit movement all over the map (the first time I read it I thought this was what it did, maybe I'm wrong and it's just a weaker scanner) it's the worst addition to the game I've ever heard of.

It would remove
- Surprise attacks
- Hidden expansions

COMPLETELY.

The TA radars worked in TA I guess, but would suck for SC.

On July 17 2007 19:06 fusionsdf wrote:
starcraft 2 = spiderman 3

On July 17 2007 19:22 InRaged wrote:

It worked in TA and will work in SC (if it's same building) cause all what player gains is dots on minimap. It won't remove surprise attacks - player still should check what unit type is under the dot. How will be terran confused when he'll see 2 floods of dots following in completely different directions? And he should guess which of them is flood of zerglings and which of ultralisks. Nydus worms and Phase Prisms just created to surprise.

Also don't forget that today's terran is differs from sc2 terran. Looking at Blizzard progress they are trying to make heavily defended turtling machine. SD fills great there, I think. And Thor ;P


lol. The most random comparison ever

On July 17 2007 20:14 naventus wrote:
My point is this: we should be fucking concerned about the aesthetics of the game - even if you think it's bearable, like I said, it might not change if WE don't put pressure on Blizzard.

On July 17 2007 20:50 FrozenArbiter wrote:
A heavily defending turtle machine = bad.

And dude, you seriously can't see how a radar like this would completely remove any kind of hidden expansions/buildings or drops?

Which of these two things do you think are more likely to happen with the radar:

"Ohhh, look, a huge blob of dots is moving across the map approaching the side of my base - I'll just send all of my army to my main and rape the dozen overlords coming to drop!"

"Oh look, the enemy decided to randomly send a bunch of units to that island expansion all across the map, I guess they are just having a BBQ, I'll just leave them alone and ignore it"

On July 17 2007 20:50 FrozenArbiter wrote:

It would remove
- Surprise attacks
- Hidden expansions

On July 17 2007 21:25 SuperJongMan wrote:
Well, screw that... the DT is so stupid... REALLY stupid looking.

Why aren't more people upset at the DT model? It's as bad as the Soul Hunter ~_~

On July 17 2007 19:59 Blacklizard wrote:
To FA:

When I first read the sensor dome deal, I actually thought the function of it would be in addition to regular scanners... and that it would basically be a really really far reaching tower combined with comstat such that cloaked units had no chance. So it sounded way better when Luhh wrote his bit. ((I just read your more recent post... I guess you were thinking the same thing. OK, i wasn't crazy, heh))

But I will admit, since Terran are so prevalent with the pros, I've been looking for things that may be just a tiny bit too good with Terrans- see my worker thread for the SCV argument. Now don't get me wrong... I was praising scanners in another thread b/c it seemed to alleviate the balance between guessing tech or not. But I'd like to see all races have good scouting options, not just Terran. I definitely do NOT want Terrans to have mana scanners and super anti-cloak, anti-fog of war towers at the same time.

Now, FA, you really have made me think hard on this which is a good thing. Do I consider comstat to be too good? I dunno... lemme try to make sense of this. I'll lay down some of the pros and cons of comstat scans at least IMO.

Pros:
1. Makes Terran unique. Other races use units for the scouting and detecting roles.
2. Gives Terrans the best anti-cloak options of any race vs other race matchup. Without it early game, a Terran, it can be argued, would have to overdefend vs dark temps and lurkers. (See #1 in Cons).
3. Gives the Terrans options on build order... can go marine/medic/tank vs Protoss instead of metal. In other words, have a chance vs DTs.
4. Allows for a few options with Tank Vs Tank wars.
5. They help even the score a tiny bit against maphackers.
6. Probably necessary against some observer + carrier situations so that ghosts and wraiths are effective.
7. The races in SC seem pretty darn balanced, so I can't say comstat it just obviously too good.

Cons:
1. Gives Terrans the best anti-cloak options of any race vs other race matchup. Vs P and Z combined with the often needed spidermines vs P and the needed Vessels/turrets vs Zerg, it does eventually turn into the best anti-cloak combo for any race. Imbalanced? In the last 100 replays or VODs I've watched I think I've only seen greedy Terrans (it's amazing how frequent fast expand is now) die from Dark Temp rushes, and i don't think I've seen one terran lose to lurkers early in the game.

Protoss can get caught off guard by lurkers (usually as a delaying situation, but they can win games) and dark temps (they win games) since observers aren't a convenient tech route early on in PvP or PvZ, but sometimes you badly need it (guessing). A lot of pro Protoss go observer fairly quick anyway in these matches just in case. And now it seems the default build for P v T is going quick observers to counter spidermines, which in combination with other factors, basically limits Protoss offense against Terran early on. We've all seen Zerg die from dark temps lately, but again, I think it's a slight greed problem and overconfidence.

Vs Zerg, the scans really help the Terran move freely throughout the map without much risk of losing a Vessel or marines mid and late game unless they just get too sloppy I think. I see too many pro games where Vessels don't die vs Zerg that have scourge out the wazoo, and the scanner is part of the reason.

2. Gives Terran the best chance at scouting tech against all matchups.

3. For 100 mineral, 100 gas, and a bit of time, Terran have 8 Observers that are invulnerable and can travel anywhere instantaneously (Ok, you may onlyhotkey one scanner, but close enough). That is really really powerful if you think of it like that.

4. Terrans don't have cannons or sunkens to take on cloaked units at home automatically. But, they do have the cheapest tower, and plenty of ranged units and a bunker option. I'm not so sure the scanner evens it out as much as it makes dark temps kinda a sucky gamble against Terran... unless they are just too greedy. Even the mana regens so quickly with two scanners that you'll never be hurting for a scan vs dark temps or lurkers.

5. Scans are almost freebie. The are the most easy, inexpensive, reactive (no planning needed), quickly deployed, and safest way to scout, check tech, check expos, check army size, check for army position, detect cloak, etc. If a Terran is about to engage you, he KNOWS EXACTLY what you have where he's about to attack. How many lurkers/scourge/sunkens/spores/casters(EMP,irrad), where they are and whether to engage or not.

Terrans can scan at perfect intervals so that the pros 80% of the time catch the enemy tech options without even losing a unit to find out. Let's not forget that Terran have the best anti-scouting early game due to marines and walloffs to further this divide.

6. Scans are undefendable. Like a fireball shot at you from the defensive characters in street fighter 2, you can't hit it or hurt the scan from the hard to crack Terran because they might be lying in wait with a dragon punch. In Street Fighter 3, parries were introduced due to the fireball situation. In SC, the scan gives the Terran tactical options that are much harder to come by with Zerg and Toss. There is no real "defense" against a scan other than building gateways and tech in the middle of nowhere, which is often risky.

7. Terrans can scan then walk safely anywhere. Or scan and drop with a perfectly prepared force... ok well the enemy will see the scan and possibly prepare better if he has time, but you know what i mean.

8. You know scans are really good when EVERY terran builds them practically every game (except cheese situations). I don't think you can say that about any other non-worker "unit" for P or Z except maybe the zergling. And the dragoon comes close. But they are fighter units... totally different situation.

Zerg also has nice scouting, but the slow overlord speed (this was nerfed from fullspeed in the sc beta... it was just way too good at it's full speed from the start of the game) basically counters this being too good in sc1. Observers come fairly late, are slow, low hp, and cost gas so... they are quite good late game when you can afford to pepper the map with them and can sometimes win games... otherwise they are just sufficient.

If the new dome thingies are replacements for scanners, and if they'd work the same as scanners except not show what buildings/how much static defense was there so that Terran wouldn't know exactly what to face unless he sent an actual scout, spending a bit more time and resources, like the rest of the races, then I can see the argument for a rebalance.

If comstat is too good, or if they want to rebalance it, I can see where limiting a scan to only units and not buildings could be more balanced especially IF the other races don't have good scouting. I say keep it, but give the other races equally good scouting options. Parasite with affordable/quicker queens, and a cheapter robotics facility or something maybe.

Summary? I dunno. I won't say scanners are just outright too good. But I also can't condemn a rethink of them without knowing the scouting options of other races.

On July 17 2007 21:35 imBLIND wrote:
The terran units look like warhammer 40k to me...
and what the fuck is with the burrowing supply depot....we already have a barracks for that purpose.

Edit:
No one gives terran opportunity to see whole map. Hmm... Let's restate it. Do you think protoss observers ruins something? Look at SD as a stationary, buildable only at fixed locations on map (for example, at Luna-alike map terran wouldn't be able to build it anywhere further than his expand - bad landscape), visible observer, which has slightly bigger view range, but not actually removing fog of war.

On July 17 2007 21:54 Titanidis wrote:
Do you believe that the enemy will be able to see the burrowed depots?

If they won't then it would be nice for trapping for scouting units, but probably they will.

On July 17 2007 21:33 FrozenArbiter wrote:
So tell me then, how you think you are going to catch a terran with a sensor dome by surprise, ever, if it works like the TA radar? Yes, SC2 is a different game but if there's no surprise drops, hidden techs, hidden expansions or sneak attacks then it's not even the same kind of game, which would be strange for a sequel.

On July 17 2007 21:41 FrozenArbiter wrote:
The difference here is that by the sounds of things, these turrets have some pretty serious range (or they'd be pretty fucking useless unless they decided turrets can no longer detect cloaked units) as they CANNOT MOVE.

If all they are, are glorified observers with slightly above average detection radius then they are.. useless? If they are anything else, then they are just gonna be too damn good as you can't get surprise dropped anymore.

I don't see how you can make it a building worth getting without making drops nearly useless. And besides, the scanner sweep is about 10 times more original.

On July 17 2007 21:48 Hot_Bid wrote:
i bet that sensor dome researches the Reverse Scanner

On July 18 2007 02:00 Evilmonkey. wrote:
I love bw, we all love bw. But for god sakes this is a brand new game. You should want a new game with new units, abilities, and tactics. I don't understand how you can already shoot down units and ideas we barely know about yet. We have a few shitty screen shots of couple of new terran units and everyone thinks its the end of the world. No, it's not.

In BW the graphics really aren't that great, you only love it because your so used to it. You will get used to SC II. You will get accustomed to the units. Blizzard can't make every unit look exactly like it did in the original game, and I personally don't want them to.

I think all of the new terran units in the screen shots actually fit the terran motif for the most part, and they look great. For the record, almost every unit that has been put up at starcraft2.com has looked great.

I really don't know what most of you want; first you complained forever on end for starcraft II to be announced, and then when it IS announced, all you do is complain about how shitty it's going to be. Broodwar is broodwar, starcraft II is starcraft II.

On July 18 2007 02:00 Evilmonkey. wrote:
I love bw, we all love bw. But for god sakes this is a brand new game. You should want a new game with new units, abilities, and tactics. I don't understand how you can already shoot down units and ideas we barely know about yet. We have a few shitty screen shots of couple of new terran units and everyone thinks its the end of the world. No, it's not.

In BW the graphics really aren't that great, you only love it because your so used to it. You will get used to SC II. You will get accustomed to the units. Blizzard can't make every unit look exactly like it did in the original game, and I personally don't want them to.

I think all of the new terran units in the screen shots actually fit the terran motif for the most part, and they look great. For the record, almost every unit that has been put up at starcraft2.com has looked great.

I really don't know what most of you want; first you complained forever on end for starcraft II to be announced, and then when it IS announced, all you do is complain about how shitty it's going to be. Broodwar is broodwar, starcraft II is starcraft II.

On July 18 2007 04:08 Plexa wrote:
ive been relatively reluctant to bitch about anything.. but omg..

*snip*

Blizzard, please fix- ASAP

On July 17 2007 22:06 SpiritAshura wrote:

That would be ridiculous if you can't even see it without a detector...

On July 18 2007 04:08 Plexa wrote:
ive been relatively reluctant to bitch about anything.. but omg..

This is tassadar, epitome of the high templar

or

At the very least, heres a HT as we know it

The first pic is what protoss beings look like

THIS IS NOT A PROTOSS BEING >.<


This is our beloved Dark Templar;

This is SCII's dark templar


THIS IS NOT A DARK TEMPLAR

it looks like something you'd see in Halo or some shit certainly not a dark templar

Blizzard, please fix- ASAP

On July 18 2007 04:37 Luhh wrote:


Signed!

On July 18 2007 06:50 Schism wrote:
SC2 is set a few years after BW,obviously. Protoss homeworld has been exterminated. Why wouldn't some of their weapons and technology change? Before,DT was an assassin with a blade. Now they have a scythe,maybe a more active combat role by necessity. The units will suit the story,not vice versa. When the USA invades Iran,you want them to use P-51 Mustangs and sherman tanks?

I know it's a fantasy universe but still, the Protoss MUST advance their technologies, even on their old units, or they will be completely destroyed. In the end,who cares about graphics. Sometimes i sit there and actually LOOK at some bw units and think...this is THE worst looking game ever. As long as SC2 plays well, they can have the teletubbies as frontline toss units,who gives a shit.

On July 18 2007 05:24 Hawk wrote:


I agree with this, esp about the dark templar. What the hell is that?

On July 18 2007 06:33 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Hm a gigantic SCV a la the alien worker suite could be sweeeeeeet ;D

On July 17 2007 16:13 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:


Here is what my post was mainly referring to, as you would have known if you had looked at who Your example of the Honda Civic illustrates my point exactly. If I were to say "The 1975 Civic is a much better car than the 2008 Civic" you would probably laugh in my face. Same thing with the SC units.

On July 18 2007 07:03 Schism wrote:
The zealot looks better,according to you. That's my point,everything is subjective,except the gameplay. Either it will rock on, or it will be another C&C. As someone else said earlier,we actually notice the graphics for what,maybe 1 day after buying the game? I've been playing SC/BW since the beginning, and i couldn't describe what an ultra looks like to someone if my life depended on it. My best go would be something like:

"um,a big orange thing,about 4 times the size of a marine.With tusks"

"how big is a marine?"

"dunno"

On July 18 2007 06:52 lololol wrote:
Scanning should at least show some sign on the opponents minimap, so he knows if you scouted his hidden tech/expand/army/whatever or not

On July 17 2007 21:25 SuperJongMan wrote:
Well, screw that... the DT is so stupid... REALLY stupid looking.

Why aren't more people upset at the DT model? It's as bad as the Soul Hunter ~_~

On July 18 2007 07:57 Blacklizard wrote:


If I haven't made it clear... it bothers me more than the Soul Hunter model b/c it's an old unit gone bad. I'm with you! I'm trying to be 99% certain this is placeholder art, just like the really goofy reaver art.

On July 18 2007 06:50 Schism wrote:
SC2 is set a few years after BW,obviously. Protoss homeworld has been exterminated. Why wouldn't some of their weapons and technology change? Before,DT was an assassin with a blade. Now they have a scythe,maybe a more active combat role by necessity. The units will suit the story,not vice versa. When the USA invades Iran,you want them to use P-51 Mustangs and sherman tanks?

I know it's a fantasy universe but still, the Protoss MUST advance their technologies, even on their old units, or they will be completely destroyed. In the end,who cares about graphics. Sometimes i sit there and actually LOOK at some bw units and think...this is THE worst looking game ever. As long as SC2 plays well, they can have the teletubbies as frontline toss units,who gives a shit.

On July 18 2007 07:55 Blacklizard wrote:


Not a bad idea. The scanner flurry or whatever we have now is good, but maybe make it last longer. If SC2 becomes a 5 base macrofest like SC, the split second disply isnt't quite enough.

On July 18 2007 07:42 Blacklizard wrote:
I didn't proofread this, but i gotta finish this post up:

To FA:

Thx for the comments. I have been inspired to return to some of my long/detailed posting habits as there has been much good discussion, a lot of which comes from you yourself! All the progaming and SC2 hype has got me going.

Yes, Terrans being stuck in base without scan is a definite thing to watch out for. If stuck in base too long, it definitely leads to auto-advantage for the other guy. I bet you'd agree that stuck for a little while is a good thing for variety and tech options in certain MUs though (not necessarily the terran). As always, gotta have the right balance.

I was surprised to see Reavers apparently becoming popular again. It's early in the morning... I can't remember... is it mostly due to Monty Hall? Anyway, you probably know how huge reavers were before the reaver/shuttle nerf. If I recall, even after that I had lots of fun catching zerg who got a little too greedy (hehe) and caught them immediately before hydras/mutas with reavers during a period of time. Good to see them on the comeback... I'd name my next child after Bob Fitch if he'd fix the pathing on the scarabs though!

Speaking of greed vs calculated risk... yeah, in the current environment/maps, I will concede that it's not usually a sloppy/greedy risk, but a calculated one. Same for the cheese tactics really. This is one thing that I like about the pro scene and TL in general... cheese and crazy builds are more often than not accepted as part of the game. As it should be. Anyway, I just call it being greedy out of ease of getting the point across and it makes me grin when they die. I have no doube Nada knows what he's doing when he FEs. I have tried FE on Longinus II and Luna as T and P and it does work pretty well even in public games. It goes back to a semi-recent post that touched on how well/smatly pros defend against early offense, and how that pushes the game to more and more macro, which in turn pushes the game into even more macro... finally to the point that early offense works (viable strat) again. Maybe that's what we are seeing with the reavers.

[[3&5
I think the same argument can be used for the overlord, mostly. Although vs a wraith opening or sair/reaver they can't really stay out in the field, but normally they can cover the map more or less and you have to build them anyway.]]

I won't disagree here... the overlord is pretty damn good even at slow speeds. And then 25 cent zerglings to cover the rest of the land... yeah zerg scouting isn't bad. But I'm still surprised by how effective sair openings have turned out. In my time, I had always found them to be weak way back when... but then again I usually left options for mass hydra and lord speed vs P by default. And here we go back to the environment and maps and at what point each BO becomes the standard or the risky build. That's one thing I like about Bisu (and Stork surprised me lately too)... he seems very flexible on builds and makes them work. While I'm at it, the pounding Iris gave Stork was (sorry Stork), pretty beautful.

[[4
I don't think the dark templar is built purely for the chance of catching terrans off-guard. I think forcing the terran to invest in detection, possibly delaying the command center, giving you room to expand, stopping fast 2fac rushes to some extent and giving you access to fast arbiters are solid enough reasons to get them.]]

I agree with you here. A long time ago, the dark templar "rush" vs Terran followed by a certain degree of expanding/teching was very effective on the right maps.

And I also agree DTs shouldn't be game ending if Terran is building fairly normal and leave some room for anti-cloak options.

On July 18 2007 07:14 Hawk wrote:


That's a poor analogy, because no one regarded the 75 civic as anything worthwhile. It was a run of the mill average car then.

If you were goin to compare it to anything, take the GTO. The GTO of years ago is regarded as your classic, bad ass american sports car. It stood out from the crowd because it was so much better. But when they remade it, they completely shit all over its herritage. It looked so bland and you'd be hard pressed to differentiate it from any other cars on the road. The people who designed it clearly had a poor idea of how to make a new-age sports car that stands out from the crowd. The only reason that thing sold at all was because it had the name GTO. And I'd say the same goes for about 95% of the people here—we're gonna buy it regardless.

But even though it's not even in alpha, I'm really starting to think that I will wait for one of my friends with $$ to buy it and just try it out at their place. There's a real lot here that needs to change

On July 18 2007 08:40 teh leet newb wrote:
I just don't really like the name "Thor". "Terran Thor" just doesn't sound too good IMO. Also, that CC upgrade would be super gay if it could be done early to counter drops. It would also probably enhance turtling for Terran, which is already annoying enough as it is...

On July 18 2007 10:15 Stegosaur wrote:

Thor, I don't know. Obviously the article is poorly written, and Blizz already said they wouldn't give T and Z any superunits. Still I wonder what the point of an 'overwhelming' groundunit like thor would be. Terran already has the most powerful standing army in terms of range, firepower and practically everything has splash damage so it looks like overkill.
Still, maybe it will be something completely different like a mobile repairbay, spellcaster or god knows what.

On July 17 2007 15:58 paper wrote:

Did the developers recently watch Transformers and decide it would add to the "cool" factor? -__-

On July 18 2007 11:59 Rotodyne wrote:


I sure hope so

On July 18 2007 12:57 FrozenArbiter wrote:
That's very good news, glad the article writer exaggerated

On July 18 2007 08:42 FrozenArbiter wrote:

They can redesign it if they absolutely want to, but having a cool dark templar (come on, the SC2 zeratul wallpaper is 10 times better than that generic robo ninja thing) replaced by that? Ugh.

Also, I find the SC graphics to be beautiful/charming I don't care much for super high res graphics or super advanced 3D (that's not to say I can't go 'wow that's gorgeous' when I see well made 3D games), I just find the SC graphics charming.


I *think* a dot shows up on your minimap when terran scans, at least I'm almost certain it does in replays

I should probably be more certain on this lol. Btw, does anyone else feel like the scanner used to make more of a sound? What I mean is, I remember when starting to play (in 1.09 I think? Well technically I might have played in the patch before that but it was very casual) that I would always hear when I was scanned then suddenly I only heard it if I was close to the scan's location..

Just in my mind?

The Thor unit will not be the type of unit you'll want to march into the enemy base by itself.

On July 18 2007 13:46 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Looool, I just remembered seeing dots on the minimap while watching a bunch of reps I downloaded =[ I swear it shows up.
Actually I'm gonna go find out right now!

Hm, I just watched a rep and it didn't show up, now I'm absolutely confused where I saw it =/

Does it show up when you're obsing? I know I've seen 'stains' on the minimap where there were no units and they wouldn't go away, and I could swear I saw them after people scanned (but now when I checked one of my most recent games played there was no dot after I scanned the zerg ramp). Stains that wouldn't go away = in replays only I think.

Wait! In War3 if you use the farsight or mortar flare, is there a dot? I did play a hundred or so 2v2s and I loved to spam flare.. so that could be it lol.

On July 18 2007 14:10 Blacklizard wrote:
FA:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=46047

That's one hell of a write up. Very nice info... obviously thoroughly tested on that map... good details. Still tons to take in... I'm going to be rereading that one a few times. Why can't I find it under the Recommended Threads? If it's a featured thread, it can't go in recommended?

On July 18 2007 14:19 Stegosaur wrote:


Actually it does show minimap pings in some replays, don't ask my why, I have a game on baekdu of flash vs metrosexual (savior) which shows pings of just about everything =)

On July 18 2007 13:46 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Looool, I just remembered seeing dots on the minimap while watching a bunch of reps I downloaded =[ I swear it shows up.
Actually I'm gonna go find out right now! Hm, I just watched a rep and it didn't show up, now I'm absolutely confused where I saw it =

On July 18 2007 19:12 quasi -QS- wrote:
There's a difference between feedback and bitching about units and concepts we know nothing about and complaining the models suck from a blurry scan of a magazine article.

On July 18 2007 19:12 quasi -QS- wrote:
There's a difference between feedback and bitching about units and concepts we know nothing about and complaining the models suck from a blurry scan of a magazine article.

On July 18 2007 19:45 caution.slip wrote:
archons always had legs



see? legs, they just don't walk on them

On July 18 2007 19:42 nofAcedAgent wrote:


I agree. Im not backing up the unit concept complaints or anything pertaining to how a unit will act in gameplay when no statistics have been revealed.

I am however complaining about the dark templar design/High templar design, I also dont find the scan particularly blury. Its quite clear what the current unit model looks. And you assume people are commenting specifically on the magazine scans. Dark templar are also apear in screenshots.
And the HT model is seen quite clearly in many screens, and even their animation in gameplay videos. Now maybe you arnt aware of those - but your ignorance doesnt justify you saying my [and any other persons] perfectly valid complaints/opinions are "bitching". Not appreciated.

EDIT: And its true what FA says about the screenshot being shit. It is hard to tell whats going on under all that flashy stuff. I will say however that before I knew the unit in that screenshot was a dark templar (before i saw these mag scans) I initially thought, 'wow that model looks like crap'.

On July 18 2007 19:42 nofAcedAgent wrote:


I agree. Im not backing up the unit concept complaints or anything pertaining to how a unit will act in gameplay when no statistics have been revealed.

I am however complaining about the dark templar design/High templar design, I also dont find the scan particularly blury. Its quite clear what the current unit model looks. And you assume people are commenting specifically on the magazine scans. Dark templar are also apear in screenshots.
And the HT model is seen quite clearly in many screens, and even their animation in gameplay videos. Now maybe you arnt aware of those - but your ignorance doesnt justify you saying my [and any other persons] perfectly valid complaints/opinions are "bitching". Not appreciated.

EDIT: And its true what FA says about the screenshot being shit. It is hard to tell whats going on under all that flashy stuff. I will say however that before I knew the unit in that screenshot was a dark templar (before i saw these mag scans) I initially thought, 'wow that model looks like crap'.

On July 18 2007 19:58 quasi -QS- wrote:
The current DT model looks too heavily armored, and bulky to be a cloaked stealth unit.

On July 18 2007 12:02 tripleoptiks wrote:
they musta had ladiesman217 working for them

On July 18 2007 19:54 oneofthem wrote:

Sensor Dome: With one of these you can see enemy units on the map, even if they are moving in undiscovered territory.
LOL

MAPHACK

Btw, maybe it's not really something you could tell from my posts but I'm actually hugely positive about sc2.

On July 19 2007 00:41 BluzMan wrote:
@ FA:

So, you say you like the new Archon based on it's resemblance to WC3 Infernals? Kek, did not compute at first. Well, Infernals were indeed quite cool, but it's an uncontrollable line of associations: Looks like Inf -> Warcraft III -> That infamous walking animation (actually, many units in War3 have that kind of walking/running stuff as the Infernal) -> Bulky, kiddish and slow as hell. It's not that I'm a dedicated Warcraft III hater, I just can't help thinking like this. Infernal and StarCraft can't coexist in my brain. I dunno, I guess there are many people with many different tastes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm also very enthusiastic about the game. The gameplay videos so far look 100% awesome. But this transformer thing is just fugly, I just can't stand it.

On July 18 2007 14:00 anch wrote:
lawl, *lockdown missle*.
Hope its not Thor vs Colossus battle late game everywhere.

Anyone else catching on more MvC2 names? What's next Zerg Blackheart?

On July 19 2007 07:29 garmule2 wrote:
I'm starting to see how TvP is going to happen. Zerg is still a mystery, of course.

Right now, I think SC2 will be much different than SC because of the huge boosts to mobility. Cannons move, depots burrow, vikings morph, toss can warp in anywhere, and so on. I believe the Sensor Dome will show dots on the entire minimap, but not what the units are. Fake out with probes, anyone? Anyway, I think all of the old dynamics in TvP will be shaken up.

I like that cannons move now. It changes the cannon/siege tank dynamic. Tanks pulling up outside your D? Move your cannons. Tanks unsiege to move forward, attack!

I like the Viking's morph ability. This adds a new dynamic against the Tempest. No longer will T be forced to ineffectively fight off carriers with Goliaths that can't keep up. Tempests pull up outside your base? Vikings lift off and rape the air-defenseless blimps.

Obviously, the Tank/Goon/Zeal dynamic is different now. Zeals with Charge, Immortals with their shield... I believe that the marine's new shield upgrade is there to ensure that Tanks don't become useless. Rines can block zealots from reaching the tanks while killing the Immortals with their 'weaker' weapons that won't activate the shield. Reapers also add a huge flanking element to taking out immortals, while Stalkers do the same for P and tanks. Why zeal-bomb when you can literally teleport onto a tank and have them blow themselves up?

Battlecruisers will be more useful without Stasis in the game. The Warp Ray/BC dynamic will be interesting - it will be support units that determine the outcome in these battles.

I think T is now focused on extreme adaptability and a unit-mix, kind of like an augmented version of themselves from SC1. Every T unit we've seen so far has a hard-counter from P, while those hard-counters have weaknesses to other T units, and vice versa. I disagree with people who say SC1 Terran was about turtling. SC1 Terran was about very powerful unit-mix adaptability, and I think they've enhanced that in SC2.

I think SC2 Protoss is about extreme power in an extremely narrow band of situations. Immortals (super shield with a big drawback), Phoenix (overload with big drawback), Warp Ray (slaughters cap ships and buildings but weak itself), Reaver (high damage but very slow), Tempest (anti-ground power but no air shield). Also, of course, the Mothership. The Stalker, HT, Archon, and Zealot feel like the support base that those other units need to not be totally useless outside their niche matchups.

I think it'll be good.

On July 19 2007 10:22 FatRine wrote:
i think they are focusing too much one super strong units in this game... (thor/mothership)