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Groups C and D are both very good. Except Innovation the other 7 players could win the tournament.
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On September 18 2020 08:37 tskarzyn wrote:
also don't think people appreciate how tough TvP late game is on this map pool. When Inno is dropping games to Zoun and Hurricane and Maru loses a BO5 to Parting, going 4-2 vs Parting and Patience actually looks really good.
I don't think map pool has anything to do with it. imo the issue with late game TvP is due to the amount of splash damage protoss can utilize and terran bio is especially vulnerable to splash dmg.
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Group A:
It is nice to see group of life memes but I believe this group will deliver the most fun, wonky games/upsets. I am looking forward to watch the matches. People banking on TY and expect others to mud fight for the second place but I can see this may not be happening.
Group B:
Anti-hype group. It'll be heartbreaking to see Zest will get rekt in PvZs and 2 zergs will advance.(stop booing me~)
Group C:
Absolute madness. I think this is the hardest group to predict and advance imo(contrary to D as everyone expects).
Byun popping out of nowhere and slapping Parting made me confused.
Byun & Parting can micro themselves to ro8 or failed miserable to other 3 players. Any one of 4 players can pull of a series from the others.
Group D:
I don't see how people see this as group of death since Rogue will take the first place and trap/inno will fight against the zerg flood of units to survive.
My protoss heart says Trap, my CPU says Innovation as the second place.
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C and D look so damn good. Can't wait!
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 18 2020 11:34 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2020 10:34 Spinoza wrote:On September 18 2020 09:05 WombaT wrote:On September 18 2020 03:38 Alejandrisha wrote:On September 18 2020 03:36 DomeGetta wrote:
I dont get why people still disrespect Byuns late game. Agree he didnt look great here but give him a break he just got back. He earned Ghost King nickname. He had absolutely god tier tvp late game back in the day no reason to think he wont again. he earned all the respect in the world in his first matches. maybe the lr thread was hating on his lategame? i don't get that. he saw timings, he pounced. he knows how to find his kill shots He’s not bad per se, at all. His micro chops just don’t scale into blob vs blob situations Even at this early stage of his comeback, already there are few players I’d want to face less than ByuN in the early game or in some 3 base sub 140 supply situation. He’s not exactly deficient in other areas, but his strengths are in eking out those efficient trades with micro few others can match. At a much lower level my proficiency back in WoL was microing small groups of units, WC3 background and all. So in a 4 gate war my win rate was huge, but that levelled out a lot in larger scale engagements. Only so much micro one can do in deathball vs deathball Pretty much sums it up perhaps .. BuyN can macro when he focuses on it obviously, but in the recent games yesterday he had a good amount of idle workers. He still won handily and you could see by the looks on Partings and Patience faces that his play got to them on a personal level. E-bay blocking the natural is not going to work in the next round. What ever happens it is going to be fun. Group C is completely random in my mind. As is group D which I also wouldn't even dare to predict. The smart play next round is to eBay block into eco cheese behind it, mind game it up to! His macro in terms of spending his money is still pretty exemplary, he’s just not quite nailing the transitions and covering further expansions yet. I mean still looks pretty bloody good. A combo of ByuN playing the early thru mid game and handing over to TY for late and good luck Protosses. Not that Maru or Inno are slouches and TY doesn’t often get to the lategame unscathed but I think in a purely isolated sense he looks super strong when he does. Of course Maru in the past has shown he can straddle both worlds in the ‘I can micro and pressure better than anyone’ combined with a brutal lategame, hasn’t shown that level for a while now sadly.
ByuN shows in the blob situations acutally way less micro than he's known for. At least pre-military ByuN was bathing in storms. It would be interesting what he will show. Interestingly he's strongest in early game micro and goes against other micro gods, so byt the Code S laws it should be either super exciting or the biggest entertaining failure.
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Very lop sided groups. It is kinda unfair. Group D is just madness. Dark with his injury may not succed to qualify to katowice. I cant think of worst opponents for him than Rogue and Inno.
ESL fcked up very bad for not giving out points to Gsl super tourney , instead they give points to low prestige (sometimes invite based) cross server online tourneys. Unfair to Dark and Maru.
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The soul train and byunnovation :o
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Group C - OMG!
Cant wait!!
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Northern Ireland25030 Posts
On September 18 2020 20:15 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2020 11:34 WombaT wrote:On September 18 2020 10:34 Spinoza wrote:On September 18 2020 09:05 WombaT wrote:On September 18 2020 03:38 Alejandrisha wrote:On September 18 2020 03:36 DomeGetta wrote:
I dont get why people still disrespect Byuns late game. Agree he didnt look great here but give him a break he just got back. He earned Ghost King nickname. He had absolutely god tier tvp late game back in the day no reason to think he wont again. he earned all the respect in the world in his first matches. maybe the lr thread was hating on his lategame? i don't get that. he saw timings, he pounced. he knows how to find his kill shots He’s not bad per se, at all. His micro chops just don’t scale into blob vs blob situations Even at this early stage of his comeback, already there are few players I’d want to face less than ByuN in the early game or in some 3 base sub 140 supply situation. He’s not exactly deficient in other areas, but his strengths are in eking out those efficient trades with micro few others can match. At a much lower level my proficiency back in WoL was microing small groups of units, WC3 background and all. So in a 4 gate war my win rate was huge, but that levelled out a lot in larger scale engagements. Only so much micro one can do in deathball vs deathball Pretty much sums it up perhaps .. BuyN can macro when he focuses on it obviously, but in the recent games yesterday he had a good amount of idle workers. He still won handily and you could see by the looks on Partings and Patience faces that his play got to them on a personal level. E-bay blocking the natural is not going to work in the next round. What ever happens it is going to be fun. Group C is completely random in my mind. As is group D which I also wouldn't even dare to predict. The smart play next round is to eBay block into eco cheese behind it, mind game it up to! His macro in terms of spending his money is still pretty exemplary, he’s just not quite nailing the transitions and covering further expansions yet. I mean still looks pretty bloody good. A combo of ByuN playing the early thru mid game and handing over to TY for late and good luck Protosses. Not that Maru or Inno are slouches and TY doesn’t often get to the lategame unscathed but I think in a purely isolated sense he looks super strong when he does. Of course Maru in the past has shown he can straddle both worlds in the ‘I can micro and pressure better than anyone’ combined with a brutal lategame, hasn’t shown that level for a while now sadly. ByuN shows in the blob situations acutally way less micro than he's known for. At least pre-military ByuN was bathing in storms. It would be interesting what he will show. Interestingly he's strongest in early game micro and goes against other micro gods, so byt the Code S laws it should be either super exciting or the biggest entertaining failure.
I mean as I said flashy micro scales badly, blob v blob there’s less you can do. More about positioning then.
You could almost map Byun and Parting on the same scale come to think of it where their micro is absolutely godly up to a supply threshold and then they’re just another Terran/Protoss in blob situations.
Or Clem in TvZ for another one. Sure they’re all not slouches in controlling big engagements but they absolutely shine when they can micro the arse out of smaller skirmishes.
Byun probably shouldn’t have beaten Patience, but he showed killer instinct. Game 1 Patience was clawing from behind and eventually got to deathballs that Byun couldn’t trade well with despite his best micro and he bled out. Game 3 Patience didn’t take the same damage and was well set up but made a mistake and got pounced on.
Was still well played by Byun for sure but based on current showings the step up to beating Stats or Trap if they can negotiate the early thru midgame phase, they’re way way less sloppy than Patience.
Again this isn’t that Byun can’t play lategame, just his strengths are in unfathomable micro earlier on, and the sheer damage output of balls gradually lessens that.
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On September 18 2020 20:48 Shathe wrote:
Very lop sided groups. It is kinda unfair. Group D is just madness. Dark with his injury may not succed to qualify to katowice. I cant think of worst opponents for him than Rogue and Inno.
ESL fcked up very bad for not giving out points to Gsl super tourney , instead they give points to low prestige (sometimes invite based) cross server online tourneys. Unfair to Dark and Maru.
They did that bullshit on purpose. Dont believe the nonsense that it was a mistake...
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 19 2020 09:50 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2020 20:15 deacon.frost wrote:On September 18 2020 11:34 WombaT wrote:On September 18 2020 10:34 Spinoza wrote:On September 18 2020 09:05 WombaT wrote:On September 18 2020 03:38 Alejandrisha wrote:On September 18 2020 03:36 DomeGetta wrote:
I dont get why people still disrespect Byuns late game. Agree he didnt look great here but give him a break he just got back. He earned Ghost King nickname. He had absolutely god tier tvp late game back in the day no reason to think he wont again. he earned all the respect in the world in his first matches. maybe the lr thread was hating on his lategame? i don't get that. he saw timings, he pounced. he knows how to find his kill shots He’s not bad per se, at all. His micro chops just don’t scale into blob vs blob situations Even at this early stage of his comeback, already there are few players I’d want to face less than ByuN in the early game or in some 3 base sub 140 supply situation. He’s not exactly deficient in other areas, but his strengths are in eking out those efficient trades with micro few others can match. At a much lower level my proficiency back in WoL was microing small groups of units, WC3 background and all. So in a 4 gate war my win rate was huge, but that levelled out a lot in larger scale engagements. Only so much micro one can do in deathball vs deathball Pretty much sums it up perhaps .. BuyN can macro when he focuses on it obviously, but in the recent games yesterday he had a good amount of idle workers. He still won handily and you could see by the looks on Partings and Patience faces that his play got to them on a personal level. E-bay blocking the natural is not going to work in the next round. What ever happens it is going to be fun. Group C is completely random in my mind. As is group D which I also wouldn't even dare to predict. The smart play next round is to eBay block into eco cheese behind it, mind game it up to! His macro in terms of spending his money is still pretty exemplary, he’s just not quite nailing the transitions and covering further expansions yet. I mean still looks pretty bloody good. A combo of ByuN playing the early thru mid game and handing over to TY for late and good luck Protosses. Not that Maru or Inno are slouches and TY doesn’t often get to the lategame unscathed but I think in a purely isolated sense he looks super strong when he does. Of course Maru in the past has shown he can straddle both worlds in the ‘I can micro and pressure better than anyone’ combined with a brutal lategame, hasn’t shown that level for a while now sadly. ByuN shows in the blob situations acutally way less micro than he's known for. At least pre-military ByuN was bathing in storms. It would be interesting what he will show. Interestingly he's strongest in early game micro and goes against other micro gods, so byt the Code S laws it should be either super exciting or the biggest entertaining failure. I mean as I said flashy micro scales badly, blob v blob there’s less you can do. More about positioning then. You could almost map Byun and Parting on the same scale come to think of it where their micro is absolutely godly up to a supply threshold and then they’re just another Terran/Protoss in blob situations. Or Clem in TvZ for another one. Sure they’re all not slouches in controlling big engagements but they absolutely shine when they can micro the arse out of smaller skirmishes. Byun probably shouldn’t have beaten Patience, but he showed killer instinct. Game 1 Patience was clawing from behind and eventually got to deathballs that Byun couldn’t trade well with despite his best micro and he bled out. Game 3 Patience didn’t take the same damage and was well set up but made a mistake and got pounced on. Was still well played by Byun for sure but based on current showings the step up to beating Stats or Trap if they can negotiate the early thru midgame phase, they’re way way less sloppy than Patience. Again this isn’t that Byun can’t play lategame, just his strengths are in unfathomable micro earlier on, and the sheer damage output of balls gradually lessens that.
Weird, i always associated Byun with his unmatched ability to play ghost-heavy lategame.
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Northern Ireland25030 Posts
On September 20 2020 11:52 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2020 09:50 WombaT wrote:On September 18 2020 20:15 deacon.frost wrote:On September 18 2020 11:34 WombaT wrote:On September 18 2020 10:34 Spinoza wrote:On September 18 2020 09:05 WombaT wrote:On September 18 2020 03:38 Alejandrisha wrote:On September 18 2020 03:36 DomeGetta wrote:
I dont get why people still disrespect Byuns late game. Agree he didnt look great here but give him a break he just got back. He earned Ghost King nickname. He had absolutely god tier tvp late game back in the day no reason to think he wont again. he earned all the respect in the world in his first matches. maybe the lr thread was hating on his lategame? i don't get that. he saw timings, he pounced. he knows how to find his kill shots He’s not bad per se, at all. His micro chops just don’t scale into blob vs blob situations Even at this early stage of his comeback, already there are few players I’d want to face less than ByuN in the early game or in some 3 base sub 140 supply situation. He’s not exactly deficient in other areas, but his strengths are in eking out those efficient trades with micro few others can match. At a much lower level my proficiency back in WoL was microing small groups of units, WC3 background and all. So in a 4 gate war my win rate was huge, but that levelled out a lot in larger scale engagements. Only so much micro one can do in deathball vs deathball Pretty much sums it up perhaps .. BuyN can macro when he focuses on it obviously, but in the recent games yesterday he had a good amount of idle workers. He still won handily and you could see by the looks on Partings and Patience faces that his play got to them on a personal level. E-bay blocking the natural is not going to work in the next round. What ever happens it is going to be fun. Group C is completely random in my mind. As is group D which I also wouldn't even dare to predict. The smart play next round is to eBay block into eco cheese behind it, mind game it up to! His macro in terms of spending his money is still pretty exemplary, he’s just not quite nailing the transitions and covering further expansions yet. I mean still looks pretty bloody good. A combo of ByuN playing the early thru mid game and handing over to TY for late and good luck Protosses. Not that Maru or Inno are slouches and TY doesn’t often get to the lategame unscathed but I think in a purely isolated sense he looks super strong when he does. Of course Maru in the past has shown he can straddle both worlds in the ‘I can micro and pressure better than anyone’ combined with a brutal lategame, hasn’t shown that level for a while now sadly. ByuN shows in the blob situations acutally way less micro than he's known for. At least pre-military ByuN was bathing in storms. It would be interesting what he will show. Interestingly he's strongest in early game micro and goes against other micro gods, so byt the Code S laws it should be either super exciting or the biggest entertaining failure. I mean as I said flashy micro scales badly, blob v blob there’s less you can do. More about positioning then. You could almost map Byun and Parting on the same scale come to think of it where their micro is absolutely godly up to a supply threshold and then they’re just another Terran/Protoss in blob situations. Or Clem in TvZ for another one. Sure they’re all not slouches in controlling big engagements but they absolutely shine when they can micro the arse out of smaller skirmishes. Byun probably shouldn’t have beaten Patience, but he showed killer instinct. Game 1 Patience was clawing from behind and eventually got to deathballs that Byun couldn’t trade well with despite his best micro and he bled out. Game 3 Patience didn’t take the same damage and was well set up but made a mistake and got pounced on. Was still well played by Byun for sure but based on current showings the step up to beating Stats or Trap if they can negotiate the early thru midgame phase, they’re way way less sloppy than Patience. Again this isn’t that Byun can’t play lategame, just his strengths are in unfathomable micro earlier on, and the sheer damage output of balls gradually lessens that. Weird, i always associated Byun with his unmatched ability to play ghost-heavy lategame.
Well yeah, he can get there. That’s like going back to WoL times though
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If Trap was swapped with Maru or even Status, Group D would have 4 of the top 10 greatest sc2 players of all time xD
And if COVID wasn't happening, I would have loved to see the audience for that one
Group D is group of death in terms of the best all time players, Group C is sick as well though if we're just talking current skill and how closely match each player is.
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Is there a writeup of the Group selection? Did Rogue actually pick INno?
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On October 09 2020 23:33 Edpayasugo wrote:
Is there a writeup of the Group selection? Did Rogue actually pick INno?
Yes. The first seed swap didn't even get used at all.
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Why isn't this spoilered for me when all the other ones are? Bummer.
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On October 10 2020 02:26 FabledIntegral wrote:
Why isn't this spoilered for me when all the other ones are? Bummer.
Because this one is from the first group stage and not the Ro16
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On October 10 2020 02:34 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2020 02:26 FabledIntegral wrote:
Why isn't this spoilered for me when all the other ones are? Bummer. Because this one is from the first group stage and not the Ro16
Whoops, misread the title. Thanks.
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It's a great thread to bump--I was tremendously confused by the headline for a few seconds.
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China6329 Posts
On September 18 2020 17:24 Laserist wrote:
Group A:
It is nice to see group of life memes but I believe this group will deliver the most fun, wonky games/upsets. I am looking forward to watch the matches. People banking on TY and expect others to mud fight for the second place but I can see this may not be happening.
Group B:
Anti-hype group. It'll be heartbreaking to see Zest will get rekt in PvZs and 2 zergs will advance.(stop booing me~)
Group C:
Absolute madness. I think this is the hardest group to predict and advance imo(contrary to D as everyone expects).
Byun popping out of nowhere and slapping Parting made me confused.
Byun & Parting can micro themselves to ro8 or failed miserable to other 3 players. Any one of 4 players can pull of a series from the others.
Group D:
I don't see how people see this as group of death since Rogue will take the first place and trap/inno will fight against the zerg flood of units to survive.
My protoss heart says Trap, my CPU says Innovation as the second place.
This aged super well.
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EPT
