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AssyrianKing
Australia2116 Posts
And the only reason I thought of the carrier buff to its BW state is because the Battlecruiser is pretty much identical in stats (besides the jump ability), just do a small test patch and see if it's too overpowered or not Finally, in aware of how quick people max out now. It was already quick when we had a 6 worker start, and the 12 worker start has just made it ridiculous | ||
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Russano
United States434 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4031 Posts
 can of worms status: open. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6997 Posts
On September 01 2020 17:00 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: slight offtopic: any reports on what 3v3 4v4 random teams look like these days? can of worms status: open. Either proxy All-ins and game ends sub 5:00 or super late game with Carrier, BC/ Thor, Corrupter + Viper Rarely back and forth mid game clashes | ||
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RandomPlayer416
84 Posts
On September 01 2020 12:44 AssyrianKing wrote: To be honest, TvP is sort of alright from a Terran players perspective And the only reason I thought of the carrier buff to its BW state is because the Battlecruiser is pretty much identical in stats (besides the jump ability), just do a small test patch and see if it's too overpowered or not Finally, in aware of how quick people max out now. It was already quick when we had a 6 worker start, and the 12 worker start has just made it ridiculous What does "sort of alright" even mean? I'm genuinely curious what level you play at and why you think this match up is sort of almost fair. Further more if you can find any vods of Terran beating Protoss I'd be interested to see them. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6997 Posts
On September 02 2020 11:41 RandomPlayer416 wrote: What does "sort of alright" even mean? I'm genuinely curious what level you play at and why you think this match up is sort of almost fair. Further more if you can find any vods of Terran beating Protoss I'd be interested to see them. Future beat Parting in this weeks ESL weekly NA Dunno if anyone casted it. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18132 Posts
On September 02 2020 11:41 RandomPlayer416 wrote: What does "sort of alright" even mean? I'm genuinely curious what level you play at and why you think this match up is sort of almost fair. Further more if you can find any vods of Terran beating Protoss I'd be interested to see them. Terran beats Protoss all the time, you hyperbolic balance whiner. You can google vods yourself. I suggest some Clem from this DH fall. | ||
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Drfilip
Sweden590 Posts
On September 02 2020 11:41 RandomPlayer416 wrote: What does "sort of alright" even mean? I'm genuinely curious what level you play at and why you think this match up is sort of almost fair. Further more if you can find any vods of Terran beating Protoss I'd be interested to see them. Looking at the balance report from Aligulac, Protoss is doing worse vs Terran this month compared to last month. We must take into consideration that the patch came live just after the middle of the month, but that shouldn't matter too much. If PvT is worse this month, when a third the month has had "OP Protoss", then the first 2/3 should have been horribly awful for Protoss. Why would August be worse than July? The only difference between them is that Protoss got "buffed" into losing more often. I think that I need to clarify that PvT is slightly in Protoss favour (53.4/46.6) and it is too early for statistics to paint a just picture. Addendum: when looking at individual, recent results I had trouble finding games that had winning Terrans on a higher level. Must have started looking in the wrong places. To watch games where Terran won vs Protoss, I give you the GSL qualifiers. Games:+ Show Spoiler + PartinG vs Bunny at 17 minutes INnoVation vs Chance at 8 hours and 18 minutes Results:+ Show Spoiler + 2-0 for the Terrans in both matches | ||
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Slydie
1927 Posts
On September 02 2020 16:04 Drfilip wrote: Looking at the balance report from Aligulac, Protoss is doing worse vs Terran this month compared to last month. We must take into consideration that the patch came live just after the middle of the month, but that shouldn't matter too much. If PvT is worse this month, when a third the month has had "OP Protoss", then the first 2/3 should have been horribly awful for Protoss. Why would August be worse than July? The only difference between them is that Protoss got "buffed" into losing more often. I think that I need to clarify that PvT is slightly in Protoss favour (53.4/46.6) and it is too early for statistics to paint a just picture. Addendum: when looking at individual, recent results I had trouble finding games that had winning Terrans on a higher level. Must have started looking in the wrong places. To watch games where Terran won vs Protoss, I give you the GSL qualifiers. Games:+ Show Spoiler + PartinG vs Bunny at 17 minutes INnoVation vs Chance at 8 hours and 18 minutes Results:+ Show Spoiler + 2-0 for the Terrans in both matches Of course Terran beats Protoss all the time, and often very convincingly. Clem has great TvP and often uses his multitasking to utterly destroy his opponents. Balance discussions tend to be triggered when fan favourites lose at the highest level of play looking completely helpless against certain compositions and playstyles. IMO that was the case last GSL. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
Terran beats Protoss all the time Somebody send this to the 3 Terrans who just got knocked out of the Code S  Edit> And not to mention the ESL Open where Neeb won over 2 T(semi & finals). | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18132 Posts
On September 02 2020 23:25 deacon.frost wrote: Somebody send this to the 3 Terrans who just got knocked out of the Code S Maybe Taeja should take some tips from his foreigner teammates. uThermal's Voidray defense looked better than that bunker on the low ground nonsense, and Clem in general seems to be very good against Protoss (although I don't have a clue how good he'd be against Zest or Creator). | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 02 2020 23:32 Acrofales wrote: Maybe Taeja should take some tips from his foreigner teammates. uThermal's Voidray defense looked better than that bunker on the low ground nonsense, and Clem in general seems to be very good against Protoss (although I don't have a clue how good he'd be against Zest or Creator). Taeja wouldn't stand a chance against Zest unless the Artosis curse would group up with the rematch curse so no big harm done. But then I see people writing that the Protoss players don't stand a chance when 2 Terrans got kicked with 0:4 in TvP out of the code S and another Protoss won the regional server tourney while another Protoss won regional DH tourney. I can see how Taeja can lose to Zest even with Terran stronk, but to Creator? Special to Neeb? And the cherry on the top - Stats leads over Innovation in the ITaX Super Series on the right. From what I saw it doesn't seem that Terran is as OP as people are writing here. | ||
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Elentos
55560 Posts
I don't think it's bad enough to address with a patch at this point especially since knee-jerk changing Protoss would probably ruin all (however minimal) progress on the PvZ front. I'd say a change of map pool could already have an effect, but the ladder season still goes for another month so no luck there. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26136 Posts
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Those PvZs were soul crushing. Game two of Dark versus Creator was yet another example of what I mentioned in my last post. In the live thread people pointed out Creator delayed his warp gate 12 seconds to get early tech but that misses the point. PvZ's first 5 minutes is now balanced so sharply on a knife-edge that anything less than perfect timing and doing the exact right build and tactics at the right time without being able to know when to do so can end with protoss dead. Creator did the most defensive version of the standard opening. He didn't even send out his adept to scout and he still lost his core and Dark still was able to break down nearly the whole wall. Even with an additional zealot or two from warp gate he would have at best just barely held on and it would have been an even game despite Dark doing what should have been a committed all-in. When the game ended, Dark had three hatcheries and could at any point easily could have transitioned into a macro game. Not that the other games looked much better. You can say "but it's Dark", but that doesn't discount that the extreme majority of PvZs look like this now. Protoss tries to kill workers and anything less than killing a crippling number of workers usually results in an even game or zerg somehow ahead. Dark wasn't even trying to be cost efficient in some of those games but his production advantage was such that it didn't matter. Against both Zest and Creator, Dark threw away tons of units to disruptors and took what were clearly unfavourable fights (game one of Dark vs. Zest comes to mind. Dark attacked into an obvious concave and lost most of his army) but still won because the protoss players could not match production. Now that pro zergs have remembered that macro hatches exist again, the disparity in production in PvZ is only going to get worse. Unless the map pool changes drastically, I just don't see how this matchup is going to be fixed without significant changes to the early game. | ||
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RandomPlayer416
84 Posts
On September 02 2020 15:35 Acrofales wrote: Terran beats Protoss all the time, you hyperbolic balance whiner. You can google vods yourself. I suggest some Clem from this DH fall. Clem is one of the top players, of course he will be able to beat players who are not on his level. GSL Last night + Show Spoiler + Taeja got man-handled by creator. The guy who looked completely helpless vs dark in his match. Taeja scouted the proxy void ray and built a bunker beside it and STILL wasn't able to stop it. Game 1 he lost because of a proxy gateway adept preventing him from getting the orbital to have the scan he would of needed for DTs. Everything I spoke about in my posts were on display in the GSL. Yet you attack me and call me a balance whiner because I am discussing what the game is displaying??? You realize I play RANDOM?? MY name is LITERALLY RANDOMPLAYER. God help you. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18132 Posts
On September 03 2020 03:17 RandomPlayer416 wrote: Clem is one of the top players, of course he will be able to beat players who are not on his level. GSL Last night + Show Spoiler + Taeja got man-handled by creator. The guy who looked completely helpless vs dark in his match. Taeja scouted the proxy void ray and built a bunker beside it and STILL wasn't able to stop it. Game 1 he lost because of a proxy gateway adept preventing him from getting the orbital to have the scan he would of needed for DTs. Everything I spoke about in my posts were on display in the GSL. Yet you attack me and call me a balance whiner because I am discussing what the game is displaying??? You realize I play RANDOM?? MY name is LITERALLY RANDOMPLAYER. God help you. No, I'm calling you a hyperbolic balance whiner because you're complaining that terran cannot ever win, which is very obviously false. If Clem winning is too much for you, you can look at Arctur beating Drogo, although I am not sure where to find the VODs of that. I'm not even trying to argue that terran are in a good spot vs toss, just that your hyperbole is ridiculous. Blink DTs are just really really really really dumb. As for Taeja, losing to a proxy void ray he scouted is 90% on him. He clearly hasn't played against it enough and reacted badly. The 10% is for Creator reacting well to Taeja scouting it and trying to take down the pylon before it could get off the ground. Creator dropping a shield battery and a second pylon was a great response, and broke Taeja's counter. Taeja didn't adapt and his base was entirely open. If he had reacted with a factory and a cyclone, he would have been fine. I wouldn't take getting trashed by Dark as a signal of anything other than that Dark is very good. | ||
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RandomPlayer416
84 Posts
On September 03 2020 04:18 Acrofales wrote: No, I'm calling you a hyperbolic balance whiner because you're complaining that terran cannot ever win, which is very obviously false. If Clem winning is too much for you, you can look at Arctur beating Drogo, although I am not sure where to find the VODs of that. I'm not even trying to argue that terran are in a good spot vs toss, just that your hyperbole is ridiculous. Blink DTs are just really really really really dumb. As for Taeja, losing to a proxy void ray he scouted is 90% on him. He clearly hasn't played against it enough and reacted badly. The 10% is for Creator reacting well to Taeja scouting it and trying to take down the pylon before it could get off the ground. Creator dropping a shield battery and a second pylon was a great response, and broke Taeja's counter. Taeja didn't adapt and his base was entirely open. If he had reacted with a factory and a cyclone, he would have been fine. I wouldn't take getting trashed by Dark as a signal of anything other than that Dark is very good. So creator goes from being described as one of the weakest players to make the RO24 by artosis and tasteless then proceeds to literally steam roll Taeja no problem at all by doing no-risk proxy builds. All you've proven is your ability to nit-pick at the wording I have used. Would it make you feel better if I said "The off chance the Terran player is on another level compared to his or her opponent is the only real chance Terran has at winning vs a protoss player barring some drastic, unforseen error on account of the protoss player." Doesn't really matter I guess. At the end of the day the game is in blizzards hands and I don't have a great deal of faith in them to figure things out or get changes right. | ||
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QOGQOG
834 Posts
On September 03 2020 04:40 RandomPlayer416 wrote: So creator goes from being described as one of the weakest players to make the RO24 by artosis and tasteless then proceeds to literally steam roll Taeja no problem at all by doing no-risk proxy builds. All you've proven is your ability to nit-pick at the wording I have used. Would it make you feel better if I said "The off chance the Terran player is on another level compared to his or her opponent is the only real chance Terran has at winning vs a protoss player barring some drastic, unforseen error on account of the protoss player." Doesn't really matter I guess. At the end of the day the game is in blizzards hands and I don't have a great deal of faith in them to figure things out or get changes right. Taeja has looked consistently terrible in TvP since his return. What Creator did was extremely high risk, but he executed it well and Taeja didn't execute his defense. If you want to complain about balance, watch any PvZ this season. | ||
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slant
Romania95 Posts
On September 02 2020 23:25 deacon.frost wrote: Somebody send this to the 3 Terrans who just got knocked out of the Code S Edit> And not to mention the ESL Open where Neeb won over 2 T(semi & finals). I forgot every single time a pro wins it's because of balance. | ||
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