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We understand that this topic evokes strong feelings. In the interest of maintaining a necessary and productive discussion, we will be taking a strong stance against posters that clearly do not contribute to this aim. Dishonest and bad faith arguments, victim blaming, and attacks on other users, will be strictly moderated. A post which only serves to muddy the waters and dishonestly portray the nature of assault and harassment (and corresponding accusations) is also unwelcome. |
Well said, PengWin. Thank you for sharing 
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United States4883 Posts
On June 24 2020 23:40 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 23:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 24 2020 23:28 Charoisaur wrote:On June 24 2020 23:08 Elmonti wrote:On June 24 2020 22:54 Charoisaur wrote:
@EsportsJohn
So if I say right now "EsportsJohn raped me" it would be ok for people to treat you like a convicted rapist? Only you and I would know it's a lie, for the other people it would be just as likely that it's true as it is currently with the Rapid situation.
Hi there! I am gonna fix you shitty comparison: - Both of you know each other, or have worked together a bunch of times. - He is known to have a creepy behaviour towards people of your gender. - There have been previous allegations of that sort towards him. - A really big company refuses to work with him or stopped to do that. - You are able to give precise information about that "rape" encounter, and you have people who can corroborate the context (they saw you together before, they know both of you were at the same place, they know he behaves like that often, etc.). - After you say this, 3 more people of your gender come forward and tell similar stories. All of them can give that precise information. Ok, then it can be compared to the RAPiD situation. You are welcome. Okay I wasn't aware of those "previous allegations" but I will reserve judgement until I have heard his side of the story. Here are some of the previous allegations: On June 24 2020 22:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 24 2020 22:20 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On June 24 2020 22:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 24 2020 22:05 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
But your are jumping straight Rapid is guilty.Did u even read the tweets? Cuz one girl is saying it happened to her in offline event.then she casted with him years later.she said with google skills u can find pictures etc.Then do u have couple of girls saying the exact same thing happened to them via DMs but hey sorry not proof.isnt that really convienent? Yes I've read the multiple allegations made by multiple women over the years, against Rapid. They corroborate his inappropriate behavior. As for your insistence on specifically needing to see text, or about the other minor topics we've covered (e.g., attention-seeking behavior), I think EsportsJohn's comment answers them very well. There are ever-shifting goalposts when it comes to burden of proof, people will continue to make excuses if they really want to, and the people coming forward are merely hoping that they themselves don't get pitchforked for speaking out. On June 24 2020 22:11 linestein wrote:[LEGALITY]The Presumption of InnocenceThe presumption of innocence is a tenet of the justice system in the best countries around the world. It is important to remember that these identities are not all established. Kaitlyn, for instance, is a well-established identity. But not each identity in this case is, in fact, well-established. ..."In a criminal trial." Sorry my ignorance but u are saying over th years? I didnt know this.do u mind giving some links? I HONESTLY didnt know about it.and i thought it all came with the recent twitch movement. He's been outed for being unprofessional since at least 2014 ( https://web.archive.org/web/20140408050135/http://www.esportsheaven.com/articles/view/5189 ) although that specific example is more about him being a pain in the neck, rather than explicitly sexual. An account back in 2015 that's a sexual situation ( https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9kmn ) 2018 was when Deity's sexual situation happened ( https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9kev ) Another corroborative account about inappropriate conduct (not sure what the dates are) ( https://twitter.com/theresagaffney/status/1275471824839684096?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/560609-sexual-harassment-abuse-in-starcraft-2 ) I'm not saying Rapid should go to jail, but it's pretty clear, based on his inappropriate non-sexual and sexual behavior towards certain people (especially women), that he shouldn't be a part of the community. Also, what do you expect to hear from "his side of the story"? -If he admits to doing these things, then fine, we can easily confirm that they're true... but most people wouldn't. -If he denies doing these things, then what happens? You still don't believe the self-proclaimed victims? -If he stays silent, then what happens? You still don't believe the self-proclaimed victims? I think the more important thing is what do the victims want from the people they have named publicly so that they can feel a sense of closure. What result will help them find a way to move on? I have no idea what the answer is here and I think it is different for every situation. I honestly don't know what a public forum can do to help these victims versus getting a group of victims together to either talk to the person personally or talk to sponsors and organizer. If the goal was to get a discussion going so we can better understand personal space then that's great, but if there is more to it then that then I think we need the help of the victims to understand what we are supposed to do with this information.
You need to understand that abusive behavior and sexual misconduct does more than just offend people. In the cases of these women, it robs them of their power and their agency. They are completely at the mercy of their oppressor for as long as they remain silent and suffering, and the only way to regain their agency and reclaim their power is by speaking out against the terrible acts committed against them and naming those responsible for it, especially if they are in a position of public influence and power. It is not a retribution so much as a protection for others who can and will fall victim to the same sort of abuse if nothing is ever done to bring these situations to light.
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On June 24 2020 23:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 23:28 Charoisaur wrote:On June 24 2020 23:08 Elmonti wrote:On June 24 2020 22:54 Charoisaur wrote:
@EsportsJohn
So if I say right now "EsportsJohn raped me" it would be ok for people to treat you like a convicted rapist? Only you and I would know it's a lie, for the other people it would be just as likely that it's true as it is currently with the Rapid situation.
Hi there! I am gonna fix you shitty comparison: - Both of you know each other, or have worked together a bunch of times. - He is known to have a creepy behaviour towards people of your gender. - There have been previous allegations of that sort towards him. - A really big company refuses to work with him or stopped to do that. - You are able to give precise information about that "rape" encounter, and you have people who can corroborate the context (they saw you together before, they know both of you were at the same place, they know he behaves like that often, etc.). - After you say this, 3 more people of your gender come forward and tell similar stories. All of them can give that precise information. Ok, then it can be compared to the RAPiD situation. You are welcome. Okay I wasn't aware of those "previous allegations" but I will reserve judgement until I have heard his side of the story. Here are some of the previous allegations: Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 22:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 24 2020 22:20 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On June 24 2020 22:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 24 2020 22:05 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
But your are jumping straight Rapid is guilty.Did u even read the tweets? Cuz one girl is saying it happened to her in offline event.then she casted with him years later.she said with google skills u can find pictures etc.Then do u have couple of girls saying the exact same thing happened to them via DMs but hey sorry not proof.isnt that really convienent? Yes I've read the multiple allegations made by multiple women over the years, against Rapid. They corroborate his inappropriate behavior. As for your insistence on specifically needing to see text, or about the other minor topics we've covered (e.g., attention-seeking behavior), I think EsportsJohn's comment answers them very well. There are ever-shifting goalposts when it comes to burden of proof, people will continue to make excuses if they really want to, and the people coming forward are merely hoping that they themselves don't get pitchforked for speaking out. On June 24 2020 22:11 linestein wrote:[LEGALITY]The Presumption of InnocenceThe presumption of innocence is a tenet of the justice system in the best countries around the world. It is important to remember that these identities are not all established. Kaitlyn, for instance, is a well-established identity. But not each identity in this case is, in fact, well-established. ..."In a criminal trial." Sorry my ignorance but u are saying over th years? I didnt know this.do u mind giving some links? I HONESTLY didnt know about it.and i thought it all came with the recent twitch movement. He's been outed for being unprofessional since at least 2014 ( https://web.archive.org/web/20140408050135/http://www.esportsheaven.com/articles/view/5189 ) although that specific example is more about him being a pain in the neck, rather than explicitly sexual. An account back in 2015 that's a sexual situation ( https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9kmn ) 2018 was when Deity's sexual situation happened ( https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9kev ) Another corroborative account about inappropriate conduct (not sure what the dates are) ( https://twitter.com/theresagaffney/status/1275471824839684096?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/560609-sexual-harassment-abuse-in-starcraft-2 ) I'm not saying Rapid should go to jail, but it's pretty clear, based on his inappropriate non-sexual and sexual behavior towards certain people (especially women), that he shouldn't be a part of the community. Also, what do you expect to hear from "his side of the story"? -If he admits to doing these things, then fine, we can easily confirm that they're true... but most people wouldn't. -If he denies doing these things, then what happens? You still don't believe the self-proclaimed victims? -If he stays silent, then what happens? You still don't believe the self-proclaimed victims?
Everyone deserves the right to defend himself before getting crucified. Maybe he has proof that it didn't happen like those girls said? If he simply denies it with no proof it's his word vs her word and I guess we aren't any further than before.
He won't stay silent.
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Bisutopia19276 Posts
On June 24 2020 23:45 Elmonti wrote:
Also, it's super funny how all these "no proofs, so shut up" guys only talk about the RAPiD case... not a single word about that OG coach TLO or the other guy are talking about, with the same amount of physical proofs... But hey, they are men and they are nice people, we do know them, so I guess they DO tell the truth.
I guess they dont want any attention, unlike the 3 girls accusing Reid...
I think the hard part is belief versus action. I personally believe everyone in the OP is telling the truth, but with out proof we cannot prosecute the person who is being accused. I also personally believe we can show support and love for those victims without picking up pitchforks and attacking the accused. I think that some of those demanding proof are the ones who don't understand that we can believe victims without becoming self-appointed judges and jury.
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On June 24 2020 23:37 EsportsJohn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 23:18 BisuDagger wrote:On June 24 2020 23:01 Elmonti wrote:On June 24 2020 22:51 True_Spike wrote:On June 24 2020 22:23 Dknight wrote:On June 24 2020 22:14 True_Spike wrote:
I'm shocked that for so many people a simple accusation is enough to warrant action against the accused, with no proof whatsoever.
Some of these stories are indeed troubling and, if true, must have made the person in question very uncomfortable; no person should conduct himself or herself this way; At the same time, from my perspective, the only sensible course of action when something of this nature happens to you is to go to the police and take actual action, preferably the moment it happened.
That, however, requires proof, time and effort on the part of the accuser, on top of potential legal repercussions if the accusations turn out to be fabricated. A post on social media does not.
I think the importance of educating (young) women on how to react in such situations (and afterwards) should be the key takeaway here, not the silly idea that women never lie about sexual harassment. It's not the same as not believing them - for the time being I believe every single person that came forward, but at the same time I acknowledge it might change based on the response of the accused or, preferably, a proper legal process.
I understand it must be hard for victims of sexual abuse to come forward for a multitude of reasons (expecially actual serious, life-changing and super damaging sexual abuse cases, not a guy being a complete fucking inappropriate moron and sending a dick pick), but perpetuating the idea that a person's word alone is enough to downright socially convict someone is atrocious.
Even if "most cases end up being true", you can't just assume all of them are, that's not how the world works. Would you sentence a man to die for a crime he was accused of based on testimony alone? In a normal country that simply cannot happen and for good reason. While death is not in question here, for many people their entire livelihoods are at stake here.
This whole post wreaks of victim blaming - educating women rather than telling men to stop harassing women? You do, understand, at least in the U.S., we have a ton of people convicted based on testimony alone? And there is not just one but several victims coming forward. This was really disappointing to read from you Spike. And to the individual who posts why would someone continue working with Rapid after these allegations? Just look at the situation regarding Harvey Weinstein and why people like Megan Fox would continue working with him. I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Sexual abuse / harassment won't go away because we blindly trust every person who posts something on social media. Educating women (all people, really) on how to recognize, avoid and handle potential abuse / harassment is crucial.
Making sure they know their rights, know when and how to prosecute offenders is important, because this way the actual abusers face the consequences of their actions, land behind bars or at the very least are prosecuted (and the more cases there are the more attention they will get as part of a systemic issue). It doesn't mean no other actions should be taken to make people as safe as possible - everywhere, everyone, under all circumstances. If people in the US are sentenced based on testimony of a single person and nothing else then I'd say maybe it's not the best judiciary system in the world and perhaps needs an overhaul. That statement is REALLY fucked up, dude. Putting the spot on the victim and not the offender... So I guess when we talk about gun victims, we should educate people on recognizing and avoiding the shootings, right? That's where we should put our efforts. And educating people to recognize drunks driving, so they can avoid them?. Putting the effort on recognizing, avoiding and handling the offender... not in trying to avoid him/her becoming one, or outing them before they repeat the crime or when they do it. And sexual abuse/harassment won't go away because we are human beings: people with any sort of power (physical, social, etc.) tend to use it to take advantage of others for their own benefit. Not because of fucking social media... I really hope you are trolling or something, because jesus christ if that's not the case... Get your shit together... You are greatly over-reacting to that statement. I will try to explain better what the poster means: Educating women (all people, really) on how to recognize, avoid and handle potential abuse / harassment is crucial.
First off: 1. I'm confident that the poster understands their are times where the victim is physically overwhelmed by the other person and has no choice in whatever goes down. 2. This is not a gun victim where there is always a chance of imminent death. The post is trying to say in situations like "A person cornered me in a club and started rubbing themselves on me. I felt so scared that I let the person continue until they we bored/finished and left me there". There is quality education that can be done to help avoid, prevent, or escape that situation. In that situation, the victim is not powerless and without options. With training we can empower the victim. I am in no way the qualified person to educate anyone on the ways to handle yourself, but I've always had my own checklist to help me stay out of trouble and I'm cautious even as a 6'3 230lb male. This is specific to the scenario I put above. 1. Go out with others 2. Make sure you and the others check in with each other periodically 3. Stay in public spots where you can scream and yell for help 4. Bring mace The above are all preventative measures that help you avoid situations that could happen. 5. Call 911 immediately if no one is there to help you 6. etc. There are obviously an infinite number of scenarios like the ones where someone drunk crawls into your bed. If that makes you uncomfortable, hopefully you can be educated how to calmly remove that person and if not, immediately find someone for help. But the whole point is, how can you know how to handle this without real life experience or elders taking the time to teach you how to handle the world as best as possible. I'm really disappointed by this response, BD. Victims of rape are scarred for life and many end up dead due to depression and suicide; our response shouldn't be to educate them on how to minimize the scarring but to put barriers in place to prevent these things from happening in the first place. Hannah Gadsby says, "We are not preparing our children..." in her newest show, Douglass, in reference to how we raise boys and girls in the social norm. Society often tells girls that they need to be careful, that they need to avoid dressing provocatively, that they need to follow guidelines for safety, whereas we generally just go, "oh welp, boys will be boys!" when we (don't) educate our boys. We should not be asking ourselves why so many women end up putting themselves in dangerous situations and instead be asking ourselves why those dangerous situations exist in the first place. If testosterone is a precursor to rape, then all men would be rapists. But it's not because rape is not a biological need, it's a learned behavior which has roots in misogyny and a disregard for other people's feelings. We breed men to be sociopathic sex machines and then blame women for it, and that's not okay. Men have the privilege, men have the power (socially, economically, and physically). The ball is in their court to act in good faith, educate themselves, make others feel comfortable, and ask for consent. Suggesting that we educate women when we already do is redundant and ignores the fact that the onus is on men to provide safe environments for women to not get raped in. (BTW, I just want to make it clear to everyone that I am advocating specifically for women abused by men because it is by far the most common scenario and because there is an inherent power dynamic that dominates that relationship. Abuse and other sexual misconduct occurs between all genders and even sometimes with women taking advantage of men and is just as reprehensible. Like I said, this isn't a hormone thing, it's a learned behavior, and it's inexcuseable no matter who it is.)
Your whole state of mind is so wrong. When i was bullied at elementary school when i was a kid because i was small, my dad didnt go to their parents to tell them how i got bullied. No, he put me on Karate to give me self confidence and be able to protect myself. I can tell you 1 thing, just the confidence i got from those lessons was enough to stop those people from bullying me. Yes i had some fights but that was normal in my youth.
You make it sound like woman are some 2nd degree humans which cant protect themselves and YOU need to protect them. No, education and warning them from certain situations will actually EMPOWER those woman hugely.
You can't chance the world bro. You have to learn how to deal with the world.
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On June 24 2020 23:53 Rainmansc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 23:37 EsportsJohn wrote:On June 24 2020 23:18 BisuDagger wrote:On June 24 2020 23:01 Elmonti wrote:On June 24 2020 22:51 True_Spike wrote:On June 24 2020 22:23 Dknight wrote:On June 24 2020 22:14 True_Spike wrote:
I'm shocked that for so many people a simple accusation is enough to warrant action against the accused, with no proof whatsoever.
Some of these stories are indeed troubling and, if true, must have made the person in question very uncomfortable; no person should conduct himself or herself this way; At the same time, from my perspective, the only sensible course of action when something of this nature happens to you is to go to the police and take actual action, preferably the moment it happened.
That, however, requires proof, time and effort on the part of the accuser, on top of potential legal repercussions if the accusations turn out to be fabricated. A post on social media does not.
I think the importance of educating (young) women on how to react in such situations (and afterwards) should be the key takeaway here, not the silly idea that women never lie about sexual harassment. It's not the same as not believing them - for the time being I believe every single person that came forward, but at the same time I acknowledge it might change based on the response of the accused or, preferably, a proper legal process.
I understand it must be hard for victims of sexual abuse to come forward for a multitude of reasons (expecially actual serious, life-changing and super damaging sexual abuse cases, not a guy being a complete fucking inappropriate moron and sending a dick pick), but perpetuating the idea that a person's word alone is enough to downright socially convict someone is atrocious.
Even if "most cases end up being true", you can't just assume all of them are, that's not how the world works. Would you sentence a man to die for a crime he was accused of based on testimony alone? In a normal country that simply cannot happen and for good reason. While death is not in question here, for many people their entire livelihoods are at stake here.
This whole post wreaks of victim blaming - educating women rather than telling men to stop harassing women? You do, understand, at least in the U.S., we have a ton of people convicted based on testimony alone? And there is not just one but several victims coming forward. This was really disappointing to read from you Spike. And to the individual who posts why would someone continue working with Rapid after these allegations? Just look at the situation regarding Harvey Weinstein and why people like Megan Fox would continue working with him. I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Sexual abuse / harassment won't go away because we blindly trust every person who posts something on social media. Educating women (all people, really) on how to recognize, avoid and handle potential abuse / harassment is crucial.
Making sure they know their rights, know when and how to prosecute offenders is important, because this way the actual abusers face the consequences of their actions, land behind bars or at the very least are prosecuted (and the more cases there are the more attention they will get as part of a systemic issue). It doesn't mean no other actions should be taken to make people as safe as possible - everywhere, everyone, under all circumstances. If people in the US are sentenced based on testimony of a single person and nothing else then I'd say maybe it's not the best judiciary system in the world and perhaps needs an overhaul. That statement is REALLY fucked up, dude. Putting the spot on the victim and not the offender... So I guess when we talk about gun victims, we should educate people on recognizing and avoiding the shootings, right? That's where we should put our efforts. And educating people to recognize drunks driving, so they can avoid them?. Putting the effort on recognizing, avoiding and handling the offender... not in trying to avoid him/her becoming one, or outing them before they repeat the crime or when they do it. And sexual abuse/harassment won't go away because we are human beings: people with any sort of power (physical, social, etc.) tend to use it to take advantage of others for their own benefit. Not because of fucking social media... I really hope you are trolling or something, because jesus christ if that's not the case... Get your shit together... You are greatly over-reacting to that statement. I will try to explain better what the poster means: Educating women (all people, really) on how to recognize, avoid and handle potential abuse / harassment is crucial.
First off: 1. I'm confident that the poster understands their are times where the victim is physically overwhelmed by the other person and has no choice in whatever goes down. 2. This is not a gun victim where there is always a chance of imminent death. The post is trying to say in situations like "A person cornered me in a club and started rubbing themselves on me. I felt so scared that I let the person continue until they we bored/finished and left me there". There is quality education that can be done to help avoid, prevent, or escape that situation. In that situation, the victim is not powerless and without options. With training we can empower the victim. I am in no way the qualified person to educate anyone on the ways to handle yourself, but I've always had my own checklist to help me stay out of trouble and I'm cautious even as a 6'3 230lb male. This is specific to the scenario I put above. 1. Go out with others 2. Make sure you and the others check in with each other periodically 3. Stay in public spots where you can scream and yell for help 4. Bring mace The above are all preventative measures that help you avoid situations that could happen. 5. Call 911 immediately if no one is there to help you 6. etc. There are obviously an infinite number of scenarios like the ones where someone drunk crawls into your bed. If that makes you uncomfortable, hopefully you can be educated how to calmly remove that person and if not, immediately find someone for help. But the whole point is, how can you know how to handle this without real life experience or elders taking the time to teach you how to handle the world as best as possible. I'm really disappointed by this response, BD. Victims of rape are scarred for life and many end up dead due to depression and suicide; our response shouldn't be to educate them on how to minimize the scarring but to put barriers in place to prevent these things from happening in the first place. Hannah Gadsby says, "We are not preparing our children..." in her newest show, Douglass, in reference to how we raise boys and girls in the social norm. Society often tells girls that they need to be careful, that they need to avoid dressing provocatively, that they need to follow guidelines for safety, whereas we generally just go, "oh welp, boys will be boys!" when we (don't) educate our boys. We should not be asking ourselves why so many women end up putting themselves in dangerous situations and instead be asking ourselves why those dangerous situations exist in the first place. If testosterone is a precursor to rape, then all men would be rapists. But it's not because rape is not a biological need, it's a learned behavior which has roots in misogyny and a disregard for other people's feelings. We breed men to be sociopathic sex machines and then blame women for it, and that's not okay. Men have the privilege, men have the power (socially, economically, and physically). The ball is in their court to act in good faith, educate themselves, make others feel comfortable, and ask for consent. Suggesting that we educate women when we already do is redundant and ignores the fact that the onus is on men to provide safe environments for women to not get raped in. (BTW, I just want to make it clear to everyone that I am advocating specifically for women abused by men because it is by far the most common scenario and because there is an inherent power dynamic that dominates that relationship. Abuse and other sexual misconduct occurs between all genders and even sometimes with women taking advantage of men and is just as reprehensible. Like I said, this isn't a hormone thing, it's a learned behavior, and it's inexcuseable no matter who it is.) Your whole state of mind is so wrong. When i was bullied at elementary school when i was a kid because i was small, my dad didnt went the parents of these kids to tell them how i got bullied. No, he put me on Karate to give me self confidence and be able to protect myself. I can tell you 1 thing, just the confidence i got from those lessons was enough to stop those people from bullying me. Yes i had some fights but that was normal in my youth. You make it sound like woman are some 2nd degree humans which cant protect themselves and YOU need to protect them. No, education and warning them from certain situations will actually EMPOWER those woman hugely. You can't chance the world bro. You have to learn how to deal with the world.
For anyone who hears the term “toxic masculinity” and is curious what that means, it means sentiments like the above quoted post.
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On June 24 2020 23:51 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 23:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 24 2020 23:28 Charoisaur wrote:On June 24 2020 23:08 Elmonti wrote:On June 24 2020 22:54 Charoisaur wrote:
@EsportsJohn
So if I say right now "EsportsJohn raped me" it would be ok for people to treat you like a convicted rapist? Only you and I would know it's a lie, for the other people it would be just as likely that it's true as it is currently with the Rapid situation.
Hi there! I am gonna fix you shitty comparison: - Both of you know each other, or have worked together a bunch of times. - He is known to have a creepy behaviour towards people of your gender. - There have been previous allegations of that sort towards him. - A really big company refuses to work with him or stopped to do that. - You are able to give precise information about that "rape" encounter, and you have people who can corroborate the context (they saw you together before, they know both of you were at the same place, they know he behaves like that often, etc.). - After you say this, 3 more people of your gender come forward and tell similar stories. All of them can give that precise information. Ok, then it can be compared to the RAPiD situation. You are welcome. Okay I wasn't aware of those "previous allegations" but I will reserve judgement until I have heard his side of the story. Here are some of the previous allegations: On June 24 2020 22:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 24 2020 22:20 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On June 24 2020 22:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 24 2020 22:05 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
But your are jumping straight Rapid is guilty.Did u even read the tweets? Cuz one girl is saying it happened to her in offline event.then she casted with him years later.she said with google skills u can find pictures etc.Then do u have couple of girls saying the exact same thing happened to them via DMs but hey sorry not proof.isnt that really convienent? Yes I've read the multiple allegations made by multiple women over the years, against Rapid. They corroborate his inappropriate behavior. As for your insistence on specifically needing to see text, or about the other minor topics we've covered (e.g., attention-seeking behavior), I think EsportsJohn's comment answers them very well. There are ever-shifting goalposts when it comes to burden of proof, people will continue to make excuses if they really want to, and the people coming forward are merely hoping that they themselves don't get pitchforked for speaking out. On June 24 2020 22:11 linestein wrote:[LEGALITY]The Presumption of InnocenceThe presumption of innocence is a tenet of the justice system in the best countries around the world. It is important to remember that these identities are not all established. Kaitlyn, for instance, is a well-established identity. But not each identity in this case is, in fact, well-established. ..."In a criminal trial." Sorry my ignorance but u are saying over th years? I didnt know this.do u mind giving some links? I HONESTLY didnt know about it.and i thought it all came with the recent twitch movement. He's been outed for being unprofessional since at least 2014 ( https://web.archive.org/web/20140408050135/http://www.esportsheaven.com/articles/view/5189 ) although that specific example is more about him being a pain in the neck, rather than explicitly sexual. An account back in 2015 that's a sexual situation ( https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9kmn ) 2018 was when Deity's sexual situation happened ( https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9kev ) Another corroborative account about inappropriate conduct (not sure what the dates are) ( https://twitter.com/theresagaffney/status/1275471824839684096?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/560609-sexual-harassment-abuse-in-starcraft-2 ) I'm not saying Rapid should go to jail, but it's pretty clear, based on his inappropriate non-sexual and sexual behavior towards certain people (especially women), that he shouldn't be a part of the community. Also, what do you expect to hear from "his side of the story"? -If he admits to doing these things, then fine, we can easily confirm that they're true... but most people wouldn't. -If he denies doing these things, then what happens? You still don't believe the self-proclaimed victims? -If he stays silent, then what happens? You still don't believe the self-proclaimed victims? Everyone deserves the right to defend himself before getting crucified. Maybe he has proof that it didn't happen like those girls said? If he simply denies it with no proof it's his word vs her word and I guess we aren't any further than before. He won't stay silent.
Do you really think that if he denies everything without any corroboration, it's equivalent to multiple people confirming it with corroboration? You seem to be drawing a false equivalence when you say "he says, she says".
And please answer the third condition - What if he actually stays silent?
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On June 24 2020 23:45 Elmonti wrote:
Also, it's super funny how all these "no proofs, so shut up" guys only talk about the RAPiD case... not a single word about that OG coach TLO or the other guy are talking about, with the same amount of physical proofs... But hey, they are men and they are nice people, we do know them, so I guess they DO tell the truth.
I guess they dont want any attention, unlike the 3 girls accusing Reid...
Rapid is a pretty big guy in the scene so it obviously draws more attention then some random korean coach.
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On June 24 2020 23:54 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 23:53 Rainmansc wrote:On June 24 2020 23:37 EsportsJohn wrote:On June 24 2020 23:18 BisuDagger wrote:On June 24 2020 23:01 Elmonti wrote:On June 24 2020 22:51 True_Spike wrote:On June 24 2020 22:23 Dknight wrote:On June 24 2020 22:14 True_Spike wrote:
I'm shocked that for so many people a simple accusation is enough to warrant action against the accused, with no proof whatsoever.
Some of these stories are indeed troubling and, if true, must have made the person in question very uncomfortable; no person should conduct himself or herself this way; At the same time, from my perspective, the only sensible course of action when something of this nature happens to you is to go to the police and take actual action, preferably the moment it happened.
That, however, requires proof, time and effort on the part of the accuser, on top of potential legal repercussions if the accusations turn out to be fabricated. A post on social media does not.
I think the importance of educating (young) women on how to react in such situations (and afterwards) should be the key takeaway here, not the silly idea that women never lie about sexual harassment. It's not the same as not believing them - for the time being I believe every single person that came forward, but at the same time I acknowledge it might change based on the response of the accused or, preferably, a proper legal process.
I understand it must be hard for victims of sexual abuse to come forward for a multitude of reasons (expecially actual serious, life-changing and super damaging sexual abuse cases, not a guy being a complete fucking inappropriate moron and sending a dick pick), but perpetuating the idea that a person's word alone is enough to downright socially convict someone is atrocious.
Even if "most cases end up being true", you can't just assume all of them are, that's not how the world works. Would you sentence a man to die for a crime he was accused of based on testimony alone? In a normal country that simply cannot happen and for good reason. While death is not in question here, for many people their entire livelihoods are at stake here.
This whole post wreaks of victim blaming - educating women rather than telling men to stop harassing women? You do, understand, at least in the U.S., we have a ton of people convicted based on testimony alone? And there is not just one but several victims coming forward. This was really disappointing to read from you Spike. And to the individual who posts why would someone continue working with Rapid after these allegations? Just look at the situation regarding Harvey Weinstein and why people like Megan Fox would continue working with him. I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Sexual abuse / harassment won't go away because we blindly trust every person who posts something on social media. Educating women (all people, really) on how to recognize, avoid and handle potential abuse / harassment is crucial.
Making sure they know their rights, know when and how to prosecute offenders is important, because this way the actual abusers face the consequences of their actions, land behind bars or at the very least are prosecuted (and the more cases there are the more attention they will get as part of a systemic issue). It doesn't mean no other actions should be taken to make people as safe as possible - everywhere, everyone, under all circumstances. If people in the US are sentenced based on testimony of a single person and nothing else then I'd say maybe it's not the best judiciary system in the world and perhaps needs an overhaul. That statement is REALLY fucked up, dude. Putting the spot on the victim and not the offender... So I guess when we talk about gun victims, we should educate people on recognizing and avoiding the shootings, right? That's where we should put our efforts. And educating people to recognize drunks driving, so they can avoid them?. Putting the effort on recognizing, avoiding and handling the offender... not in trying to avoid him/her becoming one, or outing them before they repeat the crime or when they do it. And sexual abuse/harassment won't go away because we are human beings: people with any sort of power (physical, social, etc.) tend to use it to take advantage of others for their own benefit. Not because of fucking social media... I really hope you are trolling or something, because jesus christ if that's not the case... Get your shit together... You are greatly over-reacting to that statement. I will try to explain better what the poster means: Educating women (all people, really) on how to recognize, avoid and handle potential abuse / harassment is crucial.
First off: 1. I'm confident that the poster understands their are times where the victim is physically overwhelmed by the other person and has no choice in whatever goes down. 2. This is not a gun victim where there is always a chance of imminent death. The post is trying to say in situations like "A person cornered me in a club and started rubbing themselves on me. I felt so scared that I let the person continue until they we bored/finished and left me there". There is quality education that can be done to help avoid, prevent, or escape that situation. In that situation, the victim is not powerless and without options. With training we can empower the victim. I am in no way the qualified person to educate anyone on the ways to handle yourself, but I've always had my own checklist to help me stay out of trouble and I'm cautious even as a 6'3 230lb male. This is specific to the scenario I put above. 1. Go out with others 2. Make sure you and the others check in with each other periodically 3. Stay in public spots where you can scream and yell for help 4. Bring mace The above are all preventative measures that help you avoid situations that could happen. 5. Call 911 immediately if no one is there to help you 6. etc. There are obviously an infinite number of scenarios like the ones where someone drunk crawls into your bed. If that makes you uncomfortable, hopefully you can be educated how to calmly remove that person and if not, immediately find someone for help. But the whole point is, how can you know how to handle this without real life experience or elders taking the time to teach you how to handle the world as best as possible. I'm really disappointed by this response, BD. Victims of rape are scarred for life and many end up dead due to depression and suicide; our response shouldn't be to educate them on how to minimize the scarring but to put barriers in place to prevent these things from happening in the first place. Hannah Gadsby says, "We are not preparing our children..." in her newest show, Douglass, in reference to how we raise boys and girls in the social norm. Society often tells girls that they need to be careful, that they need to avoid dressing provocatively, that they need to follow guidelines for safety, whereas we generally just go, "oh welp, boys will be boys!" when we (don't) educate our boys. We should not be asking ourselves why so many women end up putting themselves in dangerous situations and instead be asking ourselves why those dangerous situations exist in the first place. If testosterone is a precursor to rape, then all men would be rapists. But it's not because rape is not a biological need, it's a learned behavior which has roots in misogyny and a disregard for other people's feelings. We breed men to be sociopathic sex machines and then blame women for it, and that's not okay. Men have the privilege, men have the power (socially, economically, and physically). The ball is in their court to act in good faith, educate themselves, make others feel comfortable, and ask for consent. Suggesting that we educate women when we already do is redundant and ignores the fact that the onus is on men to provide safe environments for women to not get raped in. (BTW, I just want to make it clear to everyone that I am advocating specifically for women abused by men because it is by far the most common scenario and because there is an inherent power dynamic that dominates that relationship. Abuse and other sexual misconduct occurs between all genders and even sometimes with women taking advantage of men and is just as reprehensible. Like I said, this isn't a hormone thing, it's a learned behavior, and it's inexcuseable no matter who it is.) Your whole state of mind is so wrong. When i was bullied at elementary school when i was a kid because i was small, my dad didnt went the parents of these kids to tell them how i got bullied. No, he put me on Karate to give me self confidence and be able to protect myself. I can tell you 1 thing, just the confidence i got from those lessons was enough to stop those people from bullying me. Yes i had some fights but that was normal in my youth. You make it sound like woman are some 2nd degree humans which cant protect themselves and YOU need to protect them. No, education and warning them from certain situations will actually EMPOWER those woman hugely. You can't chance the world bro. You have to learn how to deal with the world. For anyone who hears the term “toxic masculinity” and is curious what that means, it means sentiments like the above quoted post.
Just because somebody grew up in a total different situation then yours its ''toxic masculinity''? What in the world is toxic masculinity in what i said.
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On June 24 2020 23:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 23:51 Charoisaur wrote:On June 24 2020 23:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 24 2020 23:28 Charoisaur wrote:On June 24 2020 23:08 Elmonti wrote:On June 24 2020 22:54 Charoisaur wrote:
@EsportsJohn
So if I say right now "EsportsJohn raped me" it would be ok for people to treat you like a convicted rapist? Only you and I would know it's a lie, for the other people it would be just as likely that it's true as it is currently with the Rapid situation.
Hi there! I am gonna fix you shitty comparison: - Both of you know each other, or have worked together a bunch of times. - He is known to have a creepy behaviour towards people of your gender. - There have been previous allegations of that sort towards him. - A really big company refuses to work with him or stopped to do that. - You are able to give precise information about that "rape" encounter, and you have people who can corroborate the context (they saw you together before, they know both of you were at the same place, they know he behaves like that often, etc.). - After you say this, 3 more people of your gender come forward and tell similar stories. All of them can give that precise information. Ok, then it can be compared to the RAPiD situation. You are welcome. Okay I wasn't aware of those "previous allegations" but I will reserve judgement until I have heard his side of the story. Here are some of the previous allegations: On June 24 2020 22:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 24 2020 22:20 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On June 24 2020 22:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 24 2020 22:05 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
But your are jumping straight Rapid is guilty.Did u even read the tweets? Cuz one girl is saying it happened to her in offline event.then she casted with him years later.she said with google skills u can find pictures etc.Then do u have couple of girls saying the exact same thing happened to them via DMs but hey sorry not proof.isnt that really convienent? Yes I've read the multiple allegations made by multiple women over the years, against Rapid. They corroborate his inappropriate behavior. As for your insistence on specifically needing to see text, or about the other minor topics we've covered (e.g., attention-seeking behavior), I think EsportsJohn's comment answers them very well. There are ever-shifting goalposts when it comes to burden of proof, people will continue to make excuses if they really want to, and the people coming forward are merely hoping that they themselves don't get pitchforked for speaking out. On June 24 2020 22:11 linestein wrote:[LEGALITY]The Presumption of InnocenceThe presumption of innocence is a tenet of the justice system in the best countries around the world. It is important to remember that these identities are not all established. Kaitlyn, for instance, is a well-established identity. But not each identity in this case is, in fact, well-established. ..."In a criminal trial." Sorry my ignorance but u are saying over th years? I didnt know this.do u mind giving some links? I HONESTLY didnt know about it.and i thought it all came with the recent twitch movement. He's been outed for being unprofessional since at least 2014 ( https://web.archive.org/web/20140408050135/http://www.esportsheaven.com/articles/view/5189 ) although that specific example is more about him being a pain in the neck, rather than explicitly sexual. An account back in 2015 that's a sexual situation ( https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9kmn ) 2018 was when Deity's sexual situation happened ( https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9kev ) Another corroborative account about inappropriate conduct (not sure what the dates are) ( https://twitter.com/theresagaffney/status/1275471824839684096?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/560609-sexual-harassment-abuse-in-starcraft-2 ) I'm not saying Rapid should go to jail, but it's pretty clear, based on his inappropriate non-sexual and sexual behavior towards certain people (especially women), that he shouldn't be a part of the community. Also, what do you expect to hear from "his side of the story"? -If he admits to doing these things, then fine, we can easily confirm that they're true... but most people wouldn't. -If he denies doing these things, then what happens? You still don't believe the self-proclaimed victims? -If he stays silent, then what happens? You still don't believe the self-proclaimed victims? Everyone deserves the right to defend himself before getting crucified. Maybe he has proof that it didn't happen like those girls said? If he simply denies it with no proof it's his word vs her word and I guess we aren't any further than before. He won't stay silent. Do you really think that if he denies everything without any corroboration, it's equivalent to multiple people confirming it with corroboration? You seem to be drawing a false equivalence when you say "he says, she says". And please answer the third condition - What if he actually stays silent?
If he stays silent it's her word vs no word so her word is all we have and obviously he should be treated like he's guilty.
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Northern Ireland25820 Posts
@eSportsJohn good wall of text man, well said. While a tad inflammatory sometimes that is the appropriate tone.
I’ve just noticed re-reading today + the additional 200 replies something that would have been obvious to me yesterday if I wasn’t drunk.
The accusations from the women are the ones attracting all the skepticism or demands from proof, or almost all of them. TLO and Top or Pengwin not so much
As to whether it’s them being men, being more prominent in SC history or straight dudes being able to more easily process how uncomfortable unwanted sexual advances are from another man (myself, I’ve had it happen a few times and it’s very uncomfortable to try and defuse if they persist.
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On June 24 2020 23:53 Rainmansc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 23:37 EsportsJohn wrote:On June 24 2020 23:18 BisuDagger wrote:On June 24 2020 23:01 Elmonti wrote:On June 24 2020 22:51 True_Spike wrote:On June 24 2020 22:23 Dknight wrote:On June 24 2020 22:14 True_Spike wrote:
I'm shocked that for so many people a simple accusation is enough to warrant action against the accused, with no proof whatsoever.
Some of these stories are indeed troubling and, if true, must have made the person in question very uncomfortable; no person should conduct himself or herself this way; At the same time, from my perspective, the only sensible course of action when something of this nature happens to you is to go to the police and take actual action, preferably the moment it happened.
That, however, requires proof, time and effort on the part of the accuser, on top of potential legal repercussions if the accusations turn out to be fabricated. A post on social media does not.
I think the importance of educating (young) women on how to react in such situations (and afterwards) should be the key takeaway here, not the silly idea that women never lie about sexual harassment. It's not the same as not believing them - for the time being I believe every single person that came forward, but at the same time I acknowledge it might change based on the response of the accused or, preferably, a proper legal process.
I understand it must be hard for victims of sexual abuse to come forward for a multitude of reasons (expecially actual serious, life-changing and super damaging sexual abuse cases, not a guy being a complete fucking inappropriate moron and sending a dick pick), but perpetuating the idea that a person's word alone is enough to downright socially convict someone is atrocious.
Even if "most cases end up being true", you can't just assume all of them are, that's not how the world works. Would you sentence a man to die for a crime he was accused of based on testimony alone? In a normal country that simply cannot happen and for good reason. While death is not in question here, for many people their entire livelihoods are at stake here.
This whole post wreaks of victim blaming - educating women rather than telling men to stop harassing women? You do, understand, at least in the U.S., we have a ton of people convicted based on testimony alone? And there is not just one but several victims coming forward. This was really disappointing to read from you Spike. And to the individual who posts why would someone continue working with Rapid after these allegations? Just look at the situation regarding Harvey Weinstein and why people like Megan Fox would continue working with him. I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Sexual abuse / harassment won't go away because we blindly trust every person who posts something on social media. Educating women (all people, really) on how to recognize, avoid and handle potential abuse / harassment is crucial.
Making sure they know their rights, know when and how to prosecute offenders is important, because this way the actual abusers face the consequences of their actions, land behind bars or at the very least are prosecuted (and the more cases there are the more attention they will get as part of a systemic issue). It doesn't mean no other actions should be taken to make people as safe as possible - everywhere, everyone, under all circumstances. If people in the US are sentenced based on testimony of a single person and nothing else then I'd say maybe it's not the best judiciary system in the world and perhaps needs an overhaul. That statement is REALLY fucked up, dude. Putting the spot on the victim and not the offender... So I guess when we talk about gun victims, we should educate people on recognizing and avoiding the shootings, right? That's where we should put our efforts. And educating people to recognize drunks driving, so they can avoid them?. Putting the effort on recognizing, avoiding and handling the offender... not in trying to avoid him/her becoming one, or outing them before they repeat the crime or when they do it. And sexual abuse/harassment won't go away because we are human beings: people with any sort of power (physical, social, etc.) tend to use it to take advantage of others for their own benefit. Not because of fucking social media... I really hope you are trolling or something, because jesus christ if that's not the case... Get your shit together... You are greatly over-reacting to that statement. I will try to explain better what the poster means: Educating women (all people, really) on how to recognize, avoid and handle potential abuse / harassment is crucial.
First off: 1. I'm confident that the poster understands their are times where the victim is physically overwhelmed by the other person and has no choice in whatever goes down. 2. This is not a gun victim where there is always a chance of imminent death. The post is trying to say in situations like "A person cornered me in a club and started rubbing themselves on me. I felt so scared that I let the person continue until they we bored/finished and left me there". There is quality education that can be done to help avoid, prevent, or escape that situation. In that situation, the victim is not powerless and without options. With training we can empower the victim. I am in no way the qualified person to educate anyone on the ways to handle yourself, but I've always had my own checklist to help me stay out of trouble and I'm cautious even as a 6'3 230lb male. This is specific to the scenario I put above. 1. Go out with others 2. Make sure you and the others check in with each other periodically 3. Stay in public spots where you can scream and yell for help 4. Bring mace The above are all preventative measures that help you avoid situations that could happen. 5. Call 911 immediately if no one is there to help you 6. etc. There are obviously an infinite number of scenarios like the ones where someone drunk crawls into your bed. If that makes you uncomfortable, hopefully you can be educated how to calmly remove that person and if not, immediately find someone for help. But the whole point is, how can you know how to handle this without real life experience or elders taking the time to teach you how to handle the world as best as possible. I'm really disappointed by this response, BD. Victims of rape are scarred for life and many end up dead due to depression and suicide; our response shouldn't be to educate them on how to minimize the scarring but to put barriers in place to prevent these things from happening in the first place. Hannah Gadsby says, "We are not preparing our children..." in her newest show, Douglass, in reference to how we raise boys and girls in the social norm. Society often tells girls that they need to be careful, that they need to avoid dressing provocatively, that they need to follow guidelines for safety, whereas we generally just go, "oh welp, boys will be boys!" when we (don't) educate our boys. We should not be asking ourselves why so many women end up putting themselves in dangerous situations and instead be asking ourselves why those dangerous situations exist in the first place. If testosterone is a precursor to rape, then all men would be rapists. But it's not because rape is not a biological need, it's a learned behavior which has roots in misogyny and a disregard for other people's feelings. We breed men to be sociopathic sex machines and then blame women for it, and that's not okay. Men have the privilege, men have the power (socially, economically, and physically). The ball is in their court to act in good faith, educate themselves, make others feel comfortable, and ask for consent. Suggesting that we educate women when we already do is redundant and ignores the fact that the onus is on men to provide safe environments for women to not get raped in. (BTW, I just want to make it clear to everyone that I am advocating specifically for women abused by men because it is by far the most common scenario and because there is an inherent power dynamic that dominates that relationship. Abuse and other sexual misconduct occurs between all genders and even sometimes with women taking advantage of men and is just as reprehensible. Like I said, this isn't a hormone thing, it's a learned behavior, and it's inexcuseable no matter who it is.) Your whole state of mind is so wrong. When i was bullied at elementary school when i was a kid because i was small, my dad didnt go to their parents to tell them how i got bullied. No, he put me on Karate to give me self confidence and be able to protect myself. I can tell you 1 thing, just the confidence i got from those lessons was enough to stop those people from bullying me. Yes i had some fights but that was normal in my youth. You make it sound like woman are some 2nd degree humans which cant protect themselves and YOU need to protect them. No, education and warning them from certain situations will actually EMPOWER those woman hugely. You can't chance the world bro. You have to learn how to deal with the world.
This triggers me so hard, especially as a teacher who sees this shit every week in school. This whole idea that abuse/ bullying/ assault/ harassment/ hate is really just tough love, and if you can't get over it then it's your fault, is some epic victim-blaming bullshit. That's not how power dynamics work. That's not how privilege works. It's cool you learned karate, but it'd be even cooler if we lived in a society that unified against people who tried to fuck over other people.
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On June 24 2020 23:56 Rainmansc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 23:54 farvacola wrote:On June 24 2020 23:53 Rainmansc wrote:On June 24 2020 23:37 EsportsJohn wrote:On June 24 2020 23:18 BisuDagger wrote:On June 24 2020 23:01 Elmonti wrote:On June 24 2020 22:51 True_Spike wrote:On June 24 2020 22:23 Dknight wrote:On June 24 2020 22:14 True_Spike wrote:
I'm shocked that for so many people a simple accusation is enough to warrant action against the accused, with no proof whatsoever.
Some of these stories are indeed troubling and, if true, must have made the person in question very uncomfortable; no person should conduct himself or herself this way; At the same time, from my perspective, the only sensible course of action when something of this nature happens to you is to go to the police and take actual action, preferably the moment it happened.
That, however, requires proof, time and effort on the part of the accuser, on top of potential legal repercussions if the accusations turn out to be fabricated. A post on social media does not.
I think the importance of educating (young) women on how to react in such situations (and afterwards) should be the key takeaway here, not the silly idea that women never lie about sexual harassment. It's not the same as not believing them - for the time being I believe every single person that came forward, but at the same time I acknowledge it might change based on the response of the accused or, preferably, a proper legal process.
I understand it must be hard for victims of sexual abuse to come forward for a multitude of reasons (expecially actual serious, life-changing and super damaging sexual abuse cases, not a guy being a complete fucking inappropriate moron and sending a dick pick), but perpetuating the idea that a person's word alone is enough to downright socially convict someone is atrocious.
Even if "most cases end up being true", you can't just assume all of them are, that's not how the world works. Would you sentence a man to die for a crime he was accused of based on testimony alone? In a normal country that simply cannot happen and for good reason. While death is not in question here, for many people their entire livelihoods are at stake here.
This whole post wreaks of victim blaming - educating women rather than telling men to stop harassing women? You do, understand, at least in the U.S., we have a ton of people convicted based on testimony alone? And there is not just one but several victims coming forward. This was really disappointing to read from you Spike. And to the individual who posts why would someone continue working with Rapid after these allegations? Just look at the situation regarding Harvey Weinstein and why people like Megan Fox would continue working with him. I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Sexual abuse / harassment won't go away because we blindly trust every person who posts something on social media. Educating women (all people, really) on how to recognize, avoid and handle potential abuse / harassment is crucial.
Making sure they know their rights, know when and how to prosecute offenders is important, because this way the actual abusers face the consequences of their actions, land behind bars or at the very least are prosecuted (and the more cases there are the more attention they will get as part of a systemic issue). It doesn't mean no other actions should be taken to make people as safe as possible - everywhere, everyone, under all circumstances. If people in the US are sentenced based on testimony of a single person and nothing else then I'd say maybe it's not the best judiciary system in the world and perhaps needs an overhaul. That statement is REALLY fucked up, dude. Putting the spot on the victim and not the offender... So I guess when we talk about gun victims, we should educate people on recognizing and avoiding the shootings, right? That's where we should put our efforts. And educating people to recognize drunks driving, so they can avoid them?. Putting the effort on recognizing, avoiding and handling the offender... not in trying to avoid him/her becoming one, or outing them before they repeat the crime or when they do it. And sexual abuse/harassment won't go away because we are human beings: people with any sort of power (physical, social, etc.) tend to use it to take advantage of others for their own benefit. Not because of fucking social media... I really hope you are trolling or something, because jesus christ if that's not the case... Get your shit together... You are greatly over-reacting to that statement. I will try to explain better what the poster means: Educating women (all people, really) on how to recognize, avoid and handle potential abuse / harassment is crucial.
First off: 1. I'm confident that the poster understands their are times where the victim is physically overwhelmed by the other person and has no choice in whatever goes down. 2. This is not a gun victim where there is always a chance of imminent death. The post is trying to say in situations like "A person cornered me in a club and started rubbing themselves on me. I felt so scared that I let the person continue until they we bored/finished and left me there". There is quality education that can be done to help avoid, prevent, or escape that situation. In that situation, the victim is not powerless and without options. With training we can empower the victim. I am in no way the qualified person to educate anyone on the ways to handle yourself, but I've always had my own checklist to help me stay out of trouble and I'm cautious even as a 6'3 230lb male. This is specific to the scenario I put above. 1. Go out with others 2. Make sure you and the others check in with each other periodically 3. Stay in public spots where you can scream and yell for help 4. Bring mace The above are all preventative measures that help you avoid situations that could happen. 5. Call 911 immediately if no one is there to help you 6. etc. There are obviously an infinite number of scenarios like the ones where someone drunk crawls into your bed. If that makes you uncomfortable, hopefully you can be educated how to calmly remove that person and if not, immediately find someone for help. But the whole point is, how can you know how to handle this without real life experience or elders taking the time to teach you how to handle the world as best as possible. I'm really disappointed by this response, BD. Victims of rape are scarred for life and many end up dead due to depression and suicide; our response shouldn't be to educate them on how to minimize the scarring but to put barriers in place to prevent these things from happening in the first place. Hannah Gadsby says, "We are not preparing our children..." in her newest show, Douglass, in reference to how we raise boys and girls in the social norm. Society often tells girls that they need to be careful, that they need to avoid dressing provocatively, that they need to follow guidelines for safety, whereas we generally just go, "oh welp, boys will be boys!" when we (don't) educate our boys. We should not be asking ourselves why so many women end up putting themselves in dangerous situations and instead be asking ourselves why those dangerous situations exist in the first place. If testosterone is a precursor to rape, then all men would be rapists. But it's not because rape is not a biological need, it's a learned behavior which has roots in misogyny and a disregard for other people's feelings. We breed men to be sociopathic sex machines and then blame women for it, and that's not okay. Men have the privilege, men have the power (socially, economically, and physically). The ball is in their court to act in good faith, educate themselves, make others feel comfortable, and ask for consent. Suggesting that we educate women when we already do is redundant and ignores the fact that the onus is on men to provide safe environments for women to not get raped in. (BTW, I just want to make it clear to everyone that I am advocating specifically for women abused by men because it is by far the most common scenario and because there is an inherent power dynamic that dominates that relationship. Abuse and other sexual misconduct occurs between all genders and even sometimes with women taking advantage of men and is just as reprehensible. Like I said, this isn't a hormone thing, it's a learned behavior, and it's inexcuseable no matter who it is.) Your whole state of mind is so wrong. When i was bullied at elementary school when i was a kid because i was small, my dad didnt went the parents of these kids to tell them how i got bullied. No, he put me on Karate to give me self confidence and be able to protect myself. I can tell you 1 thing, just the confidence i got from those lessons was enough to stop those people from bullying me. Yes i had some fights but that was normal in my youth. You make it sound like woman are some 2nd degree humans which cant protect themselves and YOU need to protect them. No, education and warning them from certain situations will actually EMPOWER those woman hugely. You can't chance the world bro. You have to learn how to deal with the world. For anyone who hears the term “toxic masculinity” and is curious what that means, it means sentiments like the above quoted post. Just because somebody grew up in a total different situation then yours its ''toxic masculinity''? What in the world is toxic masculinity in what i said.
Probably the (old-school) Cobra Kai 'confidence'
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Northern Ireland25820 Posts
On June 24 2020 23:54 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 23:53 Rainmansc wrote:On June 24 2020 23:37 EsportsJohn wrote:On June 24 2020 23:18 BisuDagger wrote:On June 24 2020 23:01 Elmonti wrote:On June 24 2020 22:51 True_Spike wrote:On June 24 2020 22:23 Dknight wrote:On June 24 2020 22:14 True_Spike wrote:
I'm shocked that for so many people a simple accusation is enough to warrant action against the accused, with no proof whatsoever.
Some of these stories are indeed troubling and, if true, must have made the person in question very uncomfortable; no person should conduct himself or herself this way; At the same time, from my perspective, the only sensible course of action when something of this nature happens to you is to go to the police and take actual action, preferably the moment it happened.
That, however, requires proof, time and effort on the part of the accuser, on top of potential legal repercussions if the accusations turn out to be fabricated. A post on social media does not.
I think the importance of educating (young) women on how to react in such situations (and afterwards) should be the key takeaway here, not the silly idea that women never lie about sexual harassment. It's not the same as not believing them - for the time being I believe every single person that came forward, but at the same time I acknowledge it might change based on the response of the accused or, preferably, a proper legal process.
I understand it must be hard for victims of sexual abuse to come forward for a multitude of reasons (expecially actual serious, life-changing and super damaging sexual abuse cases, not a guy being a complete fucking inappropriate moron and sending a dick pick), but perpetuating the idea that a person's word alone is enough to downright socially convict someone is atrocious.
Even if "most cases end up being true", you can't just assume all of them are, that's not how the world works. Would you sentence a man to die for a crime he was accused of based on testimony alone? In a normal country that simply cannot happen and for good reason. While death is not in question here, for many people their entire livelihoods are at stake here.
This whole post wreaks of victim blaming - educating women rather than telling men to stop harassing women? You do, understand, at least in the U.S., we have a ton of people convicted based on testimony alone? And there is not just one but several victims coming forward. This was really disappointing to read from you Spike. And to the individual who posts why would someone continue working with Rapid after these allegations? Just look at the situation regarding Harvey Weinstein and why people like Megan Fox would continue working with him. I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Sexual abuse / harassment won't go away because we blindly trust every person who posts something on social media. Educating women (all people, really) on how to recognize, avoid and handle potential abuse / harassment is crucial.
Making sure they know their rights, know when and how to prosecute offenders is important, because this way the actual abusers face the consequences of their actions, land behind bars or at the very least are prosecuted (and the more cases there are the more attention they will get as part of a systemic issue). It doesn't mean no other actions should be taken to make people as safe as possible - everywhere, everyone, under all circumstances. If people in the US are sentenced based on testimony of a single person and nothing else then I'd say maybe it's not the best judiciary system in the world and perhaps needs an overhaul. That statement is REALLY fucked up, dude. Putting the spot on the victim and not the offender... So I guess when we talk about gun victims, we should educate people on recognizing and avoiding the shootings, right? That's where we should put our efforts. And educating people to recognize drunks driving, so they can avoid them?. Putting the effort on recognizing, avoiding and handling the offender... not in trying to avoid him/her becoming one, or outing them before they repeat the crime or when they do it. And sexual abuse/harassment won't go away because we are human beings: people with any sort of power (physical, social, etc.) tend to use it to take advantage of others for their own benefit. Not because of fucking social media... I really hope you are trolling or something, because jesus christ if that's not the case... Get your shit together... You are greatly over-reacting to that statement. I will try to explain better what the poster means: Educating women (all people, really) on how to recognize, avoid and handle potential abuse / harassment is crucial.
First off: 1. I'm confident that the poster understands their are times where the victim is physically overwhelmed by the other person and has no choice in whatever goes down. 2. This is not a gun victim where there is always a chance of imminent death. The post is trying to say in situations like "A person cornered me in a club and started rubbing themselves on me. I felt so scared that I let the person continue until they we bored/finished and left me there". There is quality education that can be done to help avoid, prevent, or escape that situation. In that situation, the victim is not powerless and without options. With training we can empower the victim. I am in no way the qualified person to educate anyone on the ways to handle yourself, but I've always had my own checklist to help me stay out of trouble and I'm cautious even as a 6'3 230lb male. This is specific to the scenario I put above. 1. Go out with others 2. Make sure you and the others check in with each other periodically 3. Stay in public spots where you can scream and yell for help 4. Bring mace The above are all preventative measures that help you avoid situations that could happen. 5. Call 911 immediately if no one is there to help you 6. etc. There are obviously an infinite number of scenarios like the ones where someone drunk crawls into your bed. If that makes you uncomfortable, hopefully you can be educated how to calmly remove that person and if not, immediately find someone for help. But the whole point is, how can you know how to handle this without real life experience or elders taking the time to teach you how to handle the world as best as possible. I'm really disappointed by this response, BD. Victims of rape are scarred for life and many end up dead due to depression and suicide; our response shouldn't be to educate them on how to minimize the scarring but to put barriers in place to prevent these things from happening in the first place. Hannah Gadsby says, "We are not preparing our children..." in her newest show, Douglass, in reference to how we raise boys and girls in the social norm. Society often tells girls that they need to be careful, that they need to avoid dressing provocatively, that they need to follow guidelines for safety, whereas we generally just go, "oh welp, boys will be boys!" when we (don't) educate our boys. We should not be asking ourselves why so many women end up putting themselves in dangerous situations and instead be asking ourselves why those dangerous situations exist in the first place. If testosterone is a precursor to rape, then all men would be rapists. But it's not because rape is not a biological need, it's a learned behavior which has roots in misogyny and a disregard for other people's feelings. We breed men to be sociopathic sex machines and then blame women for it, and that's not okay. Men have the privilege, men have the power (socially, economically, and physically). The ball is in their court to act in good faith, educate themselves, make others feel comfortable, and ask for consent. Suggesting that we educate women when we already do is redundant and ignores the fact that the onus is on men to provide safe environments for women to not get raped in. (BTW, I just want to make it clear to everyone that I am advocating specifically for women abused by men because it is by far the most common scenario and because there is an inherent power dynamic that dominates that relationship. Abuse and other sexual misconduct occurs between all genders and even sometimes with women taking advantage of men and is just as reprehensible. Like I said, this isn't a hormone thing, it's a learned behavior, and it's inexcuseable no matter who it is.) Your whole state of mind is so wrong. When i was bullied at elementary school when i was a kid because i was small, my dad didnt went the parents of these kids to tell them how i got bullied. No, he put me on Karate to give me self confidence and be able to protect myself. I can tell you 1 thing, just the confidence i got from those lessons was enough to stop those people from bullying me. Yes i had some fights but that was normal in my youth. You make it sound like woman are some 2nd degree humans which cant protect themselves and YOU need to protect them. No, education and warning them from certain situations will actually EMPOWER those woman hugely. You can't chance the world bro. You have to learn how to deal with the world. For anyone who hears the term “toxic masculinity” and is curious what that means, it means sentiments like the above quoted post.
I’ve submitted it as an example sentence to the Oxford dictionary.
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On June 24 2020 23:45 Elmonti wrote:
Also, it's super funny how all these "no proofs, so shut up" guys only talk about the RAPiD case... not a single word about that OG coach TLO or the other guy are talking about, with the same amount of physical proofs... But hey, they are men and they are nice people, we do know them, so I guess they DO tell the truth.
I guess they dont want any attention, unlike the 3 girls accusing Reid...
This is a fucking hilarious take because it actually makes more logical sense for Top and TLO to want attention, but you assume they don't because they're men. Top and TLO stream, so their names being talked about constantly for a few days has a theoretical benefit for them. This entire argument is predicated on the mindset that women just loooooove attention because you know how women are
OK I'm like actually out now
Edit: OBVIOUSLY I am not saying that Top and TLO are attention seeking, I'm using this as a framing device to point out how ludicrious the assumption that girls want attention is.
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this whole situation is just so fucked up..
2020 is seriously one of the worst years ever and it's just not stopping.
Damn.
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On June 25 2020 00:00 M3t4PhYzX wrote:
this whole situation is just so fucked up..
2020 is seriously one of the worst years ever and it's just not stopping.
Damn.
fwiw, most of these situations happened long before 2020; it's only now that people are feeling comfortable enough to come forward. If anything, I see that as a slight silver lining to an otherwise-awful year
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On June 24 2020 23:53 Rainmansc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 23:37 EsportsJohn wrote:On June 24 2020 23:18 BisuDagger wrote:On June 24 2020 23:01 Elmonti wrote:On June 24 2020 22:51 True_Spike wrote:On June 24 2020 22:23 Dknight wrote:On June 24 2020 22:14 True_Spike wrote:
I'm shocked that for so many people a simple accusation is enough to warrant action against the accused, with no proof whatsoever.
Some of these stories are indeed troubling and, if true, must have made the person in question very uncomfortable; no person should conduct himself or herself this way; At the same time, from my perspective, the only sensible course of action when something of this nature happens to you is to go to the police and take actual action, preferably the moment it happened.
That, however, requires proof, time and effort on the part of the accuser, on top of potential legal repercussions if the accusations turn out to be fabricated. A post on social media does not.
I think the importance of educating (young) women on how to react in such situations (and afterwards) should be the key takeaway here, not the silly idea that women never lie about sexual harassment. It's not the same as not believing them - for the time being I believe every single person that came forward, but at the same time I acknowledge it might change based on the response of the accused or, preferably, a proper legal process.
I understand it must be hard for victims of sexual abuse to come forward for a multitude of reasons (expecially actual serious, life-changing and super damaging sexual abuse cases, not a guy being a complete fucking inappropriate moron and sending a dick pick), but perpetuating the idea that a person's word alone is enough to downright socially convict someone is atrocious.
Even if "most cases end up being true", you can't just assume all of them are, that's not how the world works. Would you sentence a man to die for a crime he was accused of based on testimony alone? In a normal country that simply cannot happen and for good reason. While death is not in question here, for many people their entire livelihoods are at stake here.
This whole post wreaks of victim blaming - educating women rather than telling men to stop harassing women? You do, understand, at least in the U.S., we have a ton of people convicted based on testimony alone? And there is not just one but several victims coming forward. This was really disappointing to read from you Spike. And to the individual who posts why would someone continue working with Rapid after these allegations? Just look at the situation regarding Harvey Weinstein and why people like Megan Fox would continue working with him. I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Sexual abuse / harassment won't go away because we blindly trust every person who posts something on social media. Educating women (all people, really) on how to recognize, avoid and handle potential abuse / harassment is crucial.
Making sure they know their rights, know when and how to prosecute offenders is important, because this way the actual abusers face the consequences of their actions, land behind bars or at the very least are prosecuted (and the more cases there are the more attention they will get as part of a systemic issue). It doesn't mean no other actions should be taken to make people as safe as possible - everywhere, everyone, under all circumstances. If people in the US are sentenced based on testimony of a single person and nothing else then I'd say maybe it's not the best judiciary system in the world and perhaps needs an overhaul. That statement is REALLY fucked up, dude. Putting the spot on the victim and not the offender... So I guess when we talk about gun victims, we should educate people on recognizing and avoiding the shootings, right? That's where we should put our efforts. And educating people to recognize drunks driving, so they can avoid them?. Putting the effort on recognizing, avoiding and handling the offender... not in trying to avoid him/her becoming one, or outing them before they repeat the crime or when they do it. And sexual abuse/harassment won't go away because we are human beings: people with any sort of power (physical, social, etc.) tend to use it to take advantage of others for their own benefit. Not because of fucking social media... I really hope you are trolling or something, because jesus christ if that's not the case... Get your shit together... You are greatly over-reacting to that statement. I will try to explain better what the poster means: Educating women (all people, really) on how to recognize, avoid and handle potential abuse / harassment is crucial.
First off: 1. I'm confident that the poster understands their are times where the victim is physically overwhelmed by the other person and has no choice in whatever goes down. 2. This is not a gun victim where there is always a chance of imminent death. The post is trying to say in situations like "A person cornered me in a club and started rubbing themselves on me. I felt so scared that I let the person continue until they we bored/finished and left me there". There is quality education that can be done to help avoid, prevent, or escape that situation. In that situation, the victim is not powerless and without options. With training we can empower the victim. I am in no way the qualified person to educate anyone on the ways to handle yourself, but I've always had my own checklist to help me stay out of trouble and I'm cautious even as a 6'3 230lb male. This is specific to the scenario I put above. 1. Go out with others 2. Make sure you and the others check in with each other periodically 3. Stay in public spots where you can scream and yell for help 4. Bring mace The above are all preventative measures that help you avoid situations that could happen. 5. Call 911 immediately if no one is there to help you 6. etc. There are obviously an infinite number of scenarios like the ones where someone drunk crawls into your bed. If that makes you uncomfortable, hopefully you can be educated how to calmly remove that person and if not, immediately find someone for help. But the whole point is, how can you know how to handle this without real life experience or elders taking the time to teach you how to handle the world as best as possible. I'm really disappointed by this response, BD. Victims of rape are scarred for life and many end up dead due to depression and suicide; our response shouldn't be to educate them on how to minimize the scarring but to put barriers in place to prevent these things from happening in the first place. Hannah Gadsby says, "We are not preparing our children..." in her newest show, Douglass, in reference to how we raise boys and girls in the social norm. Society often tells girls that they need to be careful, that they need to avoid dressing provocatively, that they need to follow guidelines for safety, whereas we generally just go, "oh welp, boys will be boys!" when we (don't) educate our boys. We should not be asking ourselves why so many women end up putting themselves in dangerous situations and instead be asking ourselves why those dangerous situations exist in the first place. If testosterone is a precursor to rape, then all men would be rapists. But it's not because rape is not a biological need, it's a learned behavior which has roots in misogyny and a disregard for other people's feelings. We breed men to be sociopathic sex machines and then blame women for it, and that's not okay. Men have the privilege, men have the power (socially, economically, and physically). The ball is in their court to act in good faith, educate themselves, make others feel comfortable, and ask for consent. Suggesting that we educate women when we already do is redundant and ignores the fact that the onus is on men to provide safe environments for women to not get raped in. (BTW, I just want to make it clear to everyone that I am advocating specifically for women abused by men because it is by far the most common scenario and because there is an inherent power dynamic that dominates that relationship. Abuse and other sexual misconduct occurs between all genders and even sometimes with women taking advantage of men and is just as reprehensible. Like I said, this isn't a hormone thing, it's a learned behavior, and it's inexcuseable no matter who it is.) Your whole state of mind is so wrong. When i was bullied at elementary school when i was a kid because i was small, my dad didnt go to their parents to tell them how i got bullied. No, he put me on Karate to give me self confidence and be able to protect myself. I can tell you 1 thing, just the confidence i got from those lessons was enough to stop those people from bullying me. Yes i had some fights but that was normal in my youth. You make it sound like woman are some 2nd degree humans which cant protect themselves and YOU need to protect them. No, education and warning them from certain situations will actually EMPOWER those woman hugely. You can't chance the world bro. You have to learn how to deal with the world.
The hilarious thing about this is that it proves the point you are trying to disprove. Your dad taught you that going through the official channels doesn't always work, and sometimes you have to take matters into your own hands.
That's exactly what these victims are doing.
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On June 24 2020 23:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 23:53 Rainmansc wrote:On June 24 2020 23:37 EsportsJohn wrote:On June 24 2020 23:18 BisuDagger wrote:On June 24 2020 23:01 Elmonti wrote:On June 24 2020 22:51 True_Spike wrote:On June 24 2020 22:23 Dknight wrote:On June 24 2020 22:14 True_Spike wrote:
I'm shocked that for so many people a simple accusation is enough to warrant action against the accused, with no proof whatsoever.
Some of these stories are indeed troubling and, if true, must have made the person in question very uncomfortable; no person should conduct himself or herself this way; At the same time, from my perspective, the only sensible course of action when something of this nature happens to you is to go to the police and take actual action, preferably the moment it happened.
That, however, requires proof, time and effort on the part of the accuser, on top of potential legal repercussions if the accusations turn out to be fabricated. A post on social media does not.
I think the importance of educating (young) women on how to react in such situations (and afterwards) should be the key takeaway here, not the silly idea that women never lie about sexual harassment. It's not the same as not believing them - for the time being I believe every single person that came forward, but at the same time I acknowledge it might change based on the response of the accused or, preferably, a proper legal process.
I understand it must be hard for victims of sexual abuse to come forward for a multitude of reasons (expecially actual serious, life-changing and super damaging sexual abuse cases, not a guy being a complete fucking inappropriate moron and sending a dick pick), but perpetuating the idea that a person's word alone is enough to downright socially convict someone is atrocious.
Even if "most cases end up being true", you can't just assume all of them are, that's not how the world works. Would you sentence a man to die for a crime he was accused of based on testimony alone? In a normal country that simply cannot happen and for good reason. While death is not in question here, for many people their entire livelihoods are at stake here.
This whole post wreaks of victim blaming - educating women rather than telling men to stop harassing women? You do, understand, at least in the U.S., we have a ton of people convicted based on testimony alone? And there is not just one but several victims coming forward. This was really disappointing to read from you Spike. And to the individual who posts why would someone continue working with Rapid after these allegations? Just look at the situation regarding Harvey Weinstein and why people like Megan Fox would continue working with him. I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Sexual abuse / harassment won't go away because we blindly trust every person who posts something on social media. Educating women (all people, really) on how to recognize, avoid and handle potential abuse / harassment is crucial.
Making sure they know their rights, know when and how to prosecute offenders is important, because this way the actual abusers face the consequences of their actions, land behind bars or at the very least are prosecuted (and the more cases there are the more attention they will get as part of a systemic issue). It doesn't mean no other actions should be taken to make people as safe as possible - everywhere, everyone, under all circumstances. If people in the US are sentenced based on testimony of a single person and nothing else then I'd say maybe it's not the best judiciary system in the world and perhaps needs an overhaul. That statement is REALLY fucked up, dude. Putting the spot on the victim and not the offender... So I guess when we talk about gun victims, we should educate people on recognizing and avoiding the shootings, right? That's where we should put our efforts. And educating people to recognize drunks driving, so they can avoid them?. Putting the effort on recognizing, avoiding and handling the offender... not in trying to avoid him/her becoming one, or outing them before they repeat the crime or when they do it. And sexual abuse/harassment won't go away because we are human beings: people with any sort of power (physical, social, etc.) tend to use it to take advantage of others for their own benefit. Not because of fucking social media... I really hope you are trolling or something, because jesus christ if that's not the case... Get your shit together... You are greatly over-reacting to that statement. I will try to explain better what the poster means: Educating women (all people, really) on how to recognize, avoid and handle potential abuse / harassment is crucial.
First off: 1. I'm confident that the poster understands their are times where the victim is physically overwhelmed by the other person and has no choice in whatever goes down. 2. This is not a gun victim where there is always a chance of imminent death. The post is trying to say in situations like "A person cornered me in a club and started rubbing themselves on me. I felt so scared that I let the person continue until they we bored/finished and left me there". There is quality education that can be done to help avoid, prevent, or escape that situation. In that situation, the victim is not powerless and without options. With training we can empower the victim. I am in no way the qualified person to educate anyone on the ways to handle yourself, but I've always had my own checklist to help me stay out of trouble and I'm cautious even as a 6'3 230lb male. This is specific to the scenario I put above. 1. Go out with others 2. Make sure you and the others check in with each other periodically 3. Stay in public spots where you can scream and yell for help 4. Bring mace The above are all preventative measures that help you avoid situations that could happen. 5. Call 911 immediately if no one is there to help you 6. etc. There are obviously an infinite number of scenarios like the ones where someone drunk crawls into your bed. If that makes you uncomfortable, hopefully you can be educated how to calmly remove that person and if not, immediately find someone for help. But the whole point is, how can you know how to handle this without real life experience or elders taking the time to teach you how to handle the world as best as possible. I'm really disappointed by this response, BD. Victims of rape are scarred for life and many end up dead due to depression and suicide; our response shouldn't be to educate them on how to minimize the scarring but to put barriers in place to prevent these things from happening in the first place. Hannah Gadsby says, "We are not preparing our children..." in her newest show, Douglass, in reference to how we raise boys and girls in the social norm. Society often tells girls that they need to be careful, that they need to avoid dressing provocatively, that they need to follow guidelines for safety, whereas we generally just go, "oh welp, boys will be boys!" when we (don't) educate our boys. We should not be asking ourselves why so many women end up putting themselves in dangerous situations and instead be asking ourselves why those dangerous situations exist in the first place. If testosterone is a precursor to rape, then all men would be rapists. But it's not because rape is not a biological need, it's a learned behavior which has roots in misogyny and a disregard for other people's feelings. We breed men to be sociopathic sex machines and then blame women for it, and that's not okay. Men have the privilege, men have the power (socially, economically, and physically). The ball is in their court to act in good faith, educate themselves, make others feel comfortable, and ask for consent. Suggesting that we educate women when we already do is redundant and ignores the fact that the onus is on men to provide safe environments for women to not get raped in. (BTW, I just want to make it clear to everyone that I am advocating specifically for women abused by men because it is by far the most common scenario and because there is an inherent power dynamic that dominates that relationship. Abuse and other sexual misconduct occurs between all genders and even sometimes with women taking advantage of men and is just as reprehensible. Like I said, this isn't a hormone thing, it's a learned behavior, and it's inexcuseable no matter who it is.) Your whole state of mind is so wrong. When i was bullied at elementary school when i was a kid because i was small, my dad didnt go to their parents to tell them how i got bullied. No, he put me on Karate to give me self confidence and be able to protect myself. I can tell you 1 thing, just the confidence i got from those lessons was enough to stop those people from bullying me. Yes i had some fights but that was normal in my youth. You make it sound like woman are some 2nd degree humans which cant protect themselves and YOU need to protect them. No, education and warning them from certain situations will actually EMPOWER those woman hugely. You can't chance the world bro. You have to learn how to deal with the world. This triggers me so hard, especially as a teacher who sees this shit every week in school. This whole idea that abuse/ bullying/ assault/ harassment/ hate is really just tough love, and if you can't get over it then it's your fault, is some epic victim-blaming bullshit. That's not how power dynamics work. That's not how privilege works. It's cool you learned karate, but it'd be even cooler if we lived in a society that unified against people who tried to fuck over other people.
Ofcourse it is but thats not the reality. The reality is that things like this happen and denying that is just putting your head in the sand. Thats why you should give people tools to deal with these situations.
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On June 25 2020 00:00 PengWin_SC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2020 23:45 Elmonti wrote:
Also, it's super funny how all these "no proofs, so shut up" guys only talk about the RAPiD case... not a single word about that OG coach TLO or the other guy are talking about, with the same amount of physical proofs... But hey, they are men and they are nice people, we do know them, so I guess they DO tell the truth.
I guess they dont want any attention, unlike the 3 girls accusing Reid... This is a fucking hilarious take because it actually makes more logical sense for Top and TLO to want attention, but you assume they don't because they're men. Top and TLO stream, so their names being talked about constantly for a few days has a theoretical benefit for them. This entire argument is predicated on the mindset that women just loooooove attention because you know how women are OK I'm like actually out now
I don't believe them any more than I believe the girls.
I just didn't care because the accused one is a random korean coach I don't know. On the other hand is a well respected caster who I've listened too very often. Don't you think it makes sense that draws more attention?
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EPT
