Dark, Maru, Trap and Solar are already qualified for the Ro16 based on their Super Tournament performances. The groups were as usual based on GSL's internal points/tier system (not based on WCS or EPT points).
The group selection for the Ro16 will be held right after Group F. The information is also available on Liquipedia.
As always, one question remains.
Poll: Group of Death?
There isn't a Group of Death. (141)
48%
Group B (52)
18%
Group A (38)
13%
Group D (21)
7%
Group F (21)
7%
Group C (10)
3%
Group E (9)
3%
292 total votes
Your vote: Group of Death?
(Vote): Group A (Vote): Group B (Vote): Group C (Vote): Group D (Vote): Group E (Vote): Group F (Vote): There isn't a Group of Death.
Wow these Ro24 groups are weaker than last year's Ro32 groups, big wake up call for me regarding how many korean players silently went to military service at the end of last year.
Still keen though, a lot of these groups are wide open for an upset
On April 06 2020 17:00 blooblooblahblah wrote: Wow these Ro24 groups are weaker than last year's Ro32 groups, big wake up call for me regarding how many korean players silently went to military service at the end of last year.
Still keen though, a lot of these groups are wide open for an upset
Dark, Maru, Trap and Solar are allready in Ro16, that s why it looks that much weaker (I gues?)
On April 06 2020 17:00 blooblooblahblah wrote: Wow these Ro24 groups are weaker than last year's Ro32 groups, big wake up call for me regarding how many korean players silently went to military service at the end of last year.
Still keen though, a lot of these groups are wide open for an upset
Dark, Maru, Trap and Solar are allready in Ro16, that s why it looks that much weaker (I gues?)
6 players who were in the Ro32 last season retired - aLive, Classic, Fantasy, GuMiho, herO, KeeN. Beyond that, Patience and Super are replaced by TOP and DRG. Due to the retirements it's a clear loss in quality.
Group B looks fun! I think the safe predictions are Rogue/Inno, but it'd be interesting to see either Scarlett or TOP (Kiwian!) make it out. Group F is interesting too. I'm honestly pretty stoked!
On April 06 2020 17:25 Blargh wrote: Group B looks fun! I think the safe predictions are Rogue/Inno, but it'd be interesting to see either Scarlett or TOP (Kiwian!) make it out. Group F is interesting too. I'm honestly pretty stoked!
If TOP gets out of group B the other 3 players should retire.
On April 06 2020 17:00 blooblooblahblah wrote: Wow these Ro24 groups are weaker than last year's Ro32 groups, big wake up call for me regarding how many korean players silently went to military service at the end of last year.
Still keen though, a lot of these groups are wide open for an upset
Dark, Maru, Trap and Solar are allready in Ro16, that s why it looks that much weaker (I gues?)
6 players who were in the Ro32 last season retired - aLive, Classic, Fantasy, GuMiho, herO, KeeN. Beyond that, Patience and Super are replaced by TOP and DRG. Due to the retirements it's a clear loss in quality.
Damn, somehow I forgot about aLive and KeeN I was like 4 retired players, 4 less spots, should be as hard as before..
On April 06 2020 17:25 Blargh wrote: Group B looks fun! I think the safe predictions are Rogue/Inno, but it'd be interesting to see either Scarlett or TOP (Kiwian!) make it out. Group F is interesting too. I'm honestly pretty stoked!
If TOP gets out of group B the other 3 players should retire.
Yeah, even if he finishes 2nd, that d be pretty unacceptable for the first player in that group
On April 06 2020 17:36 Psychonian wrote: Group D is gonna be fucking weird lol
Yeah.. its super wide open between Ragnarok, Dream and Creator. For all 3 of them it d be quite a succes if they d advance I gues.
Rag was in the Ro8 last season, I think he's gonna be really upset if he doesn't advance.
I had the feeling that that one was pretty much an outlier. At least from what else I ve seen from him before and afterwards..
Well he was pretty clearly improving all year in Code S, made it one round further every season. He's definitely not been amazing since then, but Code S starting up again might be the motivation he needs.
On April 06 2020 17:49 JAG.war wrote: Curious to see what shape Dream is in. Artosis was singing his praises last year.
Still waiting for a Creator comeback. Not holding my breath but...
Would be great, to see Dream deliver in GSL as well. He s been improving a lot since his return in online results. In Season 3 2019 he was pretty underwhelming, booping out without a single Map win, though
On April 06 2020 18:03 Ej_ wrote: Group B is fearsome for sure, not only TOP, but also Scarlett...
Don't know how INnoVation or Rogue can make it out of there
Scarlett can upset, even if it's not likely.
Yah sometimes Scarlett pulls insane plays, but the chances for that are less than a coin flip.
I'm kinda worried about Taeja's group, it's gonna be tough for him. Than again, if he can't at least win vs Special and Hurricane he has no buisness in the ro16.
The most lopsided, least upset-prone group here is E by a mile. It would be more surprising to see either of the underdogs in that group make Top 16 than it would be to see either foreigner do it.
Group D is honestly a contender for the weakest ever gsl group. I dont like the direct seed to RO16. Everyone should have the same chance to win a code s.
On April 06 2020 18:03 Ej_ wrote: Group B is fearsome for sure, not only TOP, but also Scarlett...
Don't know how INnoVation or Rogue can make it out of there
That's what makes it the Group of Death, dude!!
Actually, even if Scarlett was at the top of her game, having TOP in there would automatically disqualify it from being a Group of Death in my eyes. There is no GOD!!!
It seems like they've created the groups on the basis that I said in earlier thread. Each group has 2 from day 1 qualifiers and 2 from day 2 qualifiers. This results in no group of deaths in ro24.
On April 06 2020 16:35 Elentos wrote: If there is a group of death it's definitely not B.
? Rogue and Innovation are probably the 2 strongest players in the tournament in the same group
Isn't group of death a group where you cannot predict the outcome while having the best possible players? In this case the group isn't a group of death for Rogue or Inno, isn't it?
Maybe we need to define the term properly before starting to vote about it
On April 06 2020 16:35 Elentos wrote: If there is a group of death it's definitely not B.
? Rogue and Innovation are probably the 2 strongest players in the tournament in the same group
And Scarlett and TOP are two of the weakest (TOP easily the weakest player in Code S in years), if Inno and Rogue do their homework the threat to them is non-existent. Hence it's not a group of death.
On April 06 2020 16:35 Elentos wrote: If there is a group of death it's definitely not B.
? Rogue and Innovation are probably the 2 strongest players in the tournament in the same group
And Scarlett and TOP are two of the weakest (TOP easily the weakest player in Code S in years), if Inno and Rogue do their homework the threat to them is non-existent. Hence it's not a group of death.
Not in the way I understand the term anyway.
Yeah... I mean for me the Group of death is the one with the strongest players. And the strongest player in this round is Rogue hands down. And he has Inno in his group who is in the next category of top players of this round with likes of Zest, Cure, sOs maybe. So that alone might indicate that this group is the strongest.
But you are right in a regard that it has 2 clear favorites, so it can be a group of death only to those who value Scarlett extremely high and give her a realistic chance of progressing to the next stage.
Why do people view TOP as a uniquely weak player? Does anyone have more info on his current form? Feels like he's done about as little as, say, DRG recently, not that I expect either to achieve anything.
I also think Scarlett has some upset potential. ZvZ is ZvZ and if Rogue is still in his post championship malaise, she could maybe eke out a win there, and despite having alright results Inno has looked vulnerable in TvZ. I still think she'll lose, but she is a famously high variance player and could disrupt things.
On April 07 2020 00:09 dysenterymd wrote: Why do people view TOP as a uniquely weak player? Does anyone have more info on his current form? Feels like he's done about as little as, say, DRG recently, not that I expect either to achieve anything.
I also think Scarlett has some upset potential. ZvZ is ZvZ and if Rogue is still in his post championship malaise, she could maybe eke out a win there, and despite having alright results Inno has looked vulnerable in TvZ. I still think she'll lose, but she is a famously high variance player and could disrupt things.
I just assume that TOP, who was only a truly championship level player for a brief moment many years ago, would still be relatively weak after many years of not competing at the highest level. He could always give us a pleasant surprise. But in no case is he regarded as being in the same category as Rogue or Innovation or Scarlett.
Scarlett has shown repeatedly that she absolutely 100% can go toe-to-toe with the best of the best when she's at the top of her form. I personally really love seeing her in that kind of form. But from the looks of the qualifier brackets, she really struggled for her spot, getting ejected from her Day 1 bracket by DynaMite and Taeja (another excellent player who I'm sure we all love, but who hasn't recently looked to be in tip-top shape). You're right that the results are not guaranteed, but I don't think that the fact that "anything could happen" makes her look like less of an underdog coming into the group. (And in terms of groups of death, I don't think that makes this group qualify, but my understanding is like others who have commented here: a group of death, for me, is a group where all the players in the group are in the best form and are considered serious championship contenders. If, in the Ro16, we get a group with Rogue, Maru, Dark, and maybe Cure or something, then we have a real group of death in my eyes.)
Edit: oops should have read the second page haha. Does this mean TY will stream on Twitch again? His viewer numbers always seemed lower on Afreeca
Him streaming on Afreeca is because he's an employee of them as a caster, not because he was on TSG. So even though yes, he'd have several hundred more viewers on Twitch, we likely won't see him come back to Twitch.
On April 07 2020 00:09 dysenterymd wrote: Why do people view TOP as a uniquely weak player? Does anyone have more info on his current form? Feels like he's done about as little as, say, DRG recently, not that I expect either to achieve anything.
TOP is primarily a streamer, not a pro, who recently had to take a long, long break due to health issues. And he's not reaching anywhere near the apex of Korean ladder with his skill. I rate him as uniquely weak in the same vein that I wouldn't expect Rotterdam to reach the 3rd group stage at any of the Dreamhacks this year either (other than at the casting desk). It's already a great success for TOP to have made it into Code S but even winning a map in the group stage would need a borderline miracle.
On April 06 2020 16:35 Elentos wrote: If there is a group of death it's definitely not B.
? Rogue and Innovation are probably the 2 strongest players in the tournament in the same group
And Scarlett and TOP are two of the weakest (TOP easily the weakest player in Code S in years), if Inno and Rogue do their homework the threat to them is non-existent. Hence it's not a group of death.
Not in the way I understand the term anyway.
Yeah... I mean for me the Group of death is the one with the strongest players. And the strongest player in this round is Rogue hands down. And he has Inno in his group who is in the next category of top players of this round with likes of Zest, Cure, sOs maybe. So that alone might indicate that this group is the strongest.
But you are right in a regard that it has 2 clear favorites, so it can be a group of death only to those who value Scarlett extremely high and give her a realistic chance of progressing to the next stage.
I actually wouldn't necessarily be surprised if Rogue struggles. He's taken it easy after big wins in the past (he has no pressure to perform in any tournament until next year after winning Katowice). But at the end of the day the group is primarily a matter of the favorites doing their homework. And so I can't ever consider that a group of death.
On April 07 2020 00:09 dysenterymd wrote: Why do people view TOP as a uniquely weak player? Does anyone have more info on his current form? Feels like he's done about as little as, say, DRG recently, not that I expect either to achieve anything.
I also think Scarlett has some upset potential. ZvZ is ZvZ and if Rogue is still in his post championship malaise, she could maybe eke out a win there, and despite having alright results Inno has looked vulnerable in TvZ. I still think she'll lose, but she is a famously high variance player and could disrupt things.
7months ago TOP woke up blind and in pain. He had a corneal disease or infection. I forgot the name of the condition he said on his stream.
So for 7 months he was unable to play starcraft and watch. He returned 2-3weeks ago when his symptoms and pain lessened after treatment. TOP only competed in the gsl qualifier because of fan support. It's stunning he qualified given all that has happened to him in the past 7 months.
I think we do kind of have the definition for death group, liquipedia.net In this case, it'll be a death group when four tier1&2 players are in the same group, but not group B, definitely not. And if you wanna define group of death by the hardness to prodict, it's group D
On April 07 2020 03:23 Howard_Kao wrote: I think we do kind of have the definition for death group, liquipedia.net In this case, it'll be a death group when four tier1&2 players are in the same group, but not group B, definitely not. And if you wanna define group of death by the hardness to prodict, it's group D
I did not know about that page. Glad to become informed.
The group of death for GSL is, by design, not possible under normal circumstances before the group nominations for round of 16. Using GSL's internal point system to determine group distribution and levelling the field is a good thing IMO. Example of unusual circumstances are if a player gets way better fast (Patience for a brief period playing evenly vs Maru et al in top form), a new player enters the field (Reynor being allowed to play in WCS) or an early exit in previous GSL (Maru got knocked out by Zest in Code A single elimination bo5).
In the ro16 we've had both PartinG, and later Dark trying to get tough groups on purpose. The 4 SKT group with Dark, soO, Classic and, I think, INnoVation was great. PartinG's all protoss group was amazing. Group of death gives great games, but the later parts of the tournament loses some flair.
I'd like to think those tier 4 players have a chance to make it out of their groups, but oh will it be tough.
They seeded it pretty well to avoid having any groups of death. I really enjoy the ones where the players pick who is in their group; hope they're still doing that in round of 16.
On April 07 2020 13:43 showstealer1829 wrote: I love the guy but if TOP wins one map in Group B the person who loses to him should just retire then and there
It will be surprised more if Rogue loses to him, since Rogue did lost unexpectedly to Scarlett years ago. Dare to ask him to retire? Why not think for another possibility that TOP might have improved a lot over the years?
All my 2012 zenex boys have rode off into the sunset so i'll be here on the 15th to support freaking TOP. Last oGs man standing? Or is HerO semi-active now?
On April 07 2020 13:43 showstealer1829 wrote: I love the guy but if TOP wins one map in Group B the person who loses to him should just retire then and there
Why not think for another possibility that TOP might have improved a lot over the years?
Didn't TOP literally just recently come back? He had to take a long time of because of eye problems/surgery I think
On April 07 2020 13:43 showstealer1829 wrote: I love the guy but if TOP wins one map in Group B the person who loses to him should just retire then and there
Why not think for another possibility that TOP might have improved a lot over the years?
Didn't TOP literally just recently come back? He had to take a long time of because of eye problems/surgery I think
Yeah, that was mentioned in this thread somewhere. Before that he was actually participating in most GSL / ST qualifiers and was allways elliminatet realy early. His qualifying run now was probably the best streak of upsets, we ll get all year. And non of it was broadcasted
On April 07 2020 15:35 MinixTheNerd wrote: yeah a lot of talent left since last year.... herO, Classic, Fantasy, Gumiho.....
With GuMiho in the military and Bbyong banned for match fixing, who will be the big researcher and tester of Terran builds? Is it Maru? He played a major role in changing the Terran meta 2 times in a year, but that isn't really as unorthodox as Mech vs Protoss when immortals still had the hardened shield that wouldn't allow more than 10 damage at a time.
On April 07 2020 05:39 Wogrim wrote: I'd like to think those tier 4 players have a chance to make it out of their groups, but oh will it be tough.
They seeded it pretty well to avoid having any groups of death. I really enjoy the ones where the players pick who is in their group; hope they're still doing that in round of 16.
I think the internal point system is something they always have for the first round(ro32 in the past and ro28 now), and group nomination is mentioned in the post so we definitely still have that
On April 07 2020 05:39 Wogrim wrote: I'd like to think those tier 4 players have a chance to make it out of their groups, but oh will it be tough.
They seeded it pretty well to avoid having any groups of death. I really enjoy the ones where the players pick who is in their group; hope they're still doing that in round of 16.
I think the internal point system is something they always have for the first round(ro32 in the past and ro28 now), and group nomination is mentioned in the post so we definitely still have that
Yes, they've always used their internal point system (which they've had since 2011) for GSL-specific seeding (which is why foreigners who participate for the first time always get tier 4 status and tossed into a tough group).
On April 07 2020 14:16 catplanetcatplanet wrote: All my 2012 zenex boys have rode off into the sunset so i'll be here on the 15th to support freaking TOP. Last oGs man standing? Or is HerO semi-active now?
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/RbHvOn0.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/ADVf3wh.png)
I was like 4 retired players, 4 less spots, should be as hard as before..
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