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Northern Ireland26252 Posts
Pretty solid run from Denver there
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WOW! how come Cure won with terrible EU server ping?? :D
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On January 15 2020 08:41 narusensei22 wrote:
WOW! how come Cure won with terrible EU server ping?? :D
Cure has been pretty impressive lately throughout his online tournament runs. He defeated Dark, even. Barely losing 2-3 to Serral while handicapped by high ping is no small feat.
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United States33554 Posts
On January 15 2020 09:16 tigon_ridge wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2020 08:41 narusensei22 wrote:
WOW! how come Cure won with terrible EU server ping?? :D Cure has been pretty impressive lately throughout his online tournament runs. He defeated Dark, even. Barely losing 2-3 to Serral while handicapped by high ping is no small feat.
Dude has been an online beast for a while, but he falls strictly into the "I won't believe it until I see it" category for me in terms of performing well in live events (well, the ones after 2016).
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Serral looked pretty much invincible in the games he won against cure though. This guy just makes this game look stupid sometimes with his incredible plays.
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Damn Cure nearly beating Serral
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Also in game 5 of Cure vs Serral we kind of saw an Idra gg timing. Being down army, economy and failing his push he gged out even though he had 3-3 on the way and Serral was still on lair. He had a slim chance still
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On January 15 2020 08:41 narusensei22 wrote:
WOW! how come Cure won with terrible EU server ping?? :D
It must have been around 300 ping for him. What a legend!
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Realy disapointed in Showtime, Lambo and Big Gabe 
I knew, it would be super hard to advance, but I didn t expect, that all 3 of them drop out THAT early
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On January 15 2020 16:52 Shuffleblade wrote:
Also in game 5 of Cure vs Serral we kind of saw an Idra gg timing. Being down army, economy and failing his push he gged out even though he had 3-3 on the way and Serral was still on lair. He had a slim chance still
Don't know Kev.
I don't think Serral has let anyone ever come back when he was ahead
Edit: With the exception of Reynor in ZvZ
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On January 15 2020 16:23 Akio wrote:
Damn Cure nearly beating Serral
i wouldnt rate qualifier performances so high. serral had a really long offtime between hsc and iem qualifier. didnt played for a month or so, so yeah, cure is a beast nontheless, but i guess with a really active serral, this match wouldnt have looked so close.
still i dont understand, why zergs still try to roach rav allin a terran. i NEVER saw, how such an allin didnt put the zerg behind in every way. even unscouted, the counter to it is so easy.
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On January 15 2020 19:14 dalaiisc2 wrote:i wouldnt rate qualifier performances so high. serral had a really long offtime between hsc and iem qualifier. didnt played for a month or so, so yeah, cure is a beast nontheless, but i guess with a really active serral, this match wouldnt have looked so close. still i dont understand, why zergs still try to roach rav allin a terran. i NEVER saw, how such an allin didnt put the zerg behind in every way. even unscouted, the counter to it is so easy.
Think he just wanted to end the match quickly tbh.
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My predictions of Protoss struggling with this current balance is starting to show itself already, I fear we are gonna have a Zerg dominated year again with T maybe able to compete.
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On January 15 2020 20:05 Dedraterllaerau wrote:
My predictions of Protoss struggling with this current balance is starting to show itself already, I fear we are gonna have a Zerg dominated year again with T maybe able to compete.
Why? Because we had one qualifier not 1/1/1 ?
Sure Classic's departure hurt, but I think we need more time to let things settle
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On January 15 2020 21:15 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2020 20:05 Dedraterllaerau wrote:
My predictions of Protoss struggling with this current balance is starting to show itself already, I fear we are gonna have a Zerg dominated year again with T maybe able to compete. Why? Because we had one qualifier not 1/1/1 ? Sure Classic's departure hurt, but I think we need more time to let things settle
And HSC and WESG both which showed continued protoss up.
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On January 15 2020 21:39 LTCM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2020 21:15 Harris1st wrote:On January 15 2020 20:05 Dedraterllaerau wrote:
My predictions of Protoss struggling with this current balance is starting to show itself already, I fear we are gonna have a Zerg dominated year again with T maybe able to compete. Why? Because we had one qualifier not 1/1/1 ? Sure Classic's departure hurt, but I think we need more time to let things settle And HSC and WESG both which showed continued protoss up.
Exactly. HSC had 3 Protoss in Top 8
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On January 15 2020 20:05 Dedraterllaerau wrote:
My predictions of Protoss struggling with this current balance is starting to show itself already, I fear we are gonna have a Zerg dominated year again with T maybe able to compete.
Terran will fight hard and win titles in 2020, they are fine.
With the retirement, imminent or already happened, of the best Protoss players in the world, I think the race will indeed struggle; looking at the stats, PvZ looks still Z favored(not in the late game), so it either needs to be figured out or Protoss need some help in the matchup.
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Was Cure's ping actually high? Hard to believe he could nearly beat Serral and crush everyone else on high ping
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On January 15 2020 23:07 NinjaNight wrote:
Was Cure's ping actually high? Hard to believe he could nearly beat Serral and crush everyone else on high ping
Playing from KR to EU he had pretty high ping, yeah. It was pretty noticeable. The only match he played on even ping was against SpeCial because Juan also played and almost qualified from KR.
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On January 15 2020 23:25 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2020 23:07 NinjaNight wrote:
Was Cure's ping actually high? Hard to believe he could nearly beat Serral and crush everyone else on high ping Playing from KR to EU he had pretty high ping, yeah. It was pretty noticeable. The only match he played on even ping was against SpeCial because Juan also played and almost qualified from KR.
Let's hope Cure plays at this level in offline korean leagues.
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This new format is so so sick
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On January 15 2020 23:29 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2020 23:25 Elentos wrote:On January 15 2020 23:07 NinjaNight wrote:
Was Cure's ping actually high? Hard to believe he could nearly beat Serral and crush everyone else on high ping Playing from KR to EU he had pretty high ping, yeah. It was pretty noticeable. The only match he played on even ping was against SpeCial because Juan also played and almost qualified from KR. Let's hope Cure plays at this level in offline korean leagues.
He completely flubbed the NA and KR qualifiers on reasonable ping, but then basically beast moded the EU qualifier on terrible ping. Clearly he's in this for the thrill of the challenge. Maybe Cure should play GSL locked into a steel cage, dangling above a lava pit.
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On January 15 2020 23:37 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2020 23:29 Xain0n wrote:On January 15 2020 23:25 Elentos wrote:On January 15 2020 23:07 NinjaNight wrote:
Was Cure's ping actually high? Hard to believe he could nearly beat Serral and crush everyone else on high ping Playing from KR to EU he had pretty high ping, yeah. It was pretty noticeable. The only match he played on even ping was against SpeCial because Juan also played and almost qualified from KR. Let's hope Cure plays at this level in offline korean leagues. He completely flubbed the NA and KR qualifiers on reasonable ping, but then basically beast moded the EU qualifier on terrible ping. Clearly he's in this for the thrill of the challenge. Maybe Cure should play GSL locked into a steel cage, dangling above a lava pit.
He could do what GuMiho did: play vs the top player at the moment and have the ceiling fall in while playing and then win.
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On January 15 2020 23:40 Drfilip wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2020 23:37 Elentos wrote:On January 15 2020 23:29 Xain0n wrote:On January 15 2020 23:25 Elentos wrote:On January 15 2020 23:07 NinjaNight wrote:
Was Cure's ping actually high? Hard to believe he could nearly beat Serral and crush everyone else on high ping Playing from KR to EU he had pretty high ping, yeah. It was pretty noticeable. The only match he played on even ping was against SpeCial because Juan also played and almost qualified from KR. Let's hope Cure plays at this level in offline korean leagues. He completely flubbed the NA and KR qualifiers on reasonable ping, but then basically beast moded the EU qualifier on terrible ping. Clearly he's in this for the thrill of the challenge. Maybe Cure should play GSL locked into a steel cage, dangling above a lava pit. He could do what GuMiho did: play vs the top player at the moment and have the ceiling fall in while playing and then win.
If it's been done before it wasn't hard enough!
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Cure is almost as good with high ping as without it.
idk how, but its true.
Also idk how elazer does it every time. i see so many flaws in his play compared to other zergs and yet he outperforms them every time
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On January 15 2020 23:43 KalWarkov wrote:
Cure is almost as good with high ping as without it.
idk how, but its true.
Also idk how elazer does it every time. i see so many flaws in his play compared to other zergs and yet he outperforms them every time
It's because he never gets supply blocked! Just spawn more overlords, man!!
Seriously speaking, who are you comparing Elazer to(excluding Serral and Reynor)?
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On January 15 2020 23:43 KalWarkov wrote:
Cure is almost as good with high ping as without it.
idk how, but its true.
Also idk how elazer does it every time. i see so many flaws in his play compared to other zergs and yet he outperforms them every time
I mean there's the overlord meme, but other than I guess he's just a bit more high risk/high reward kind of player compared to the other zergs around his level who are maybe a bit more even overall. And I mean based on his results over the last two years I would't quite say "every time".
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On January 15 2020 23:37 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2020 23:29 Xain0n wrote:On January 15 2020 23:25 Elentos wrote:On January 15 2020 23:07 NinjaNight wrote:
Was Cure's ping actually high? Hard to believe he could nearly beat Serral and crush everyone else on high ping Playing from KR to EU he had pretty high ping, yeah. It was pretty noticeable. The only match he played on even ping was against SpeCial because Juan also played and almost qualified from KR. Let's hope Cure plays at this level in offline korean leagues. He completely flubbed the NA and KR qualifiers on reasonable ping, but then basically beast moded the EU qualifier on terrible ping. Clearly he's in this for the thrill of the challenge. Maybe Cure should play GSL locked into a steel cage, dangling above a lava pit.
To me it feels like Cure struggles a bit under pressure. He s an online juggernaut, but he struggles in offline events. He is Top 5 on alligulac for a while now, wich means he has been pretty consistent lately. But offline his winrate is almost 10% lower and he never gets that amazing results.
I recon thats why, he was so good in the EU qualifier. He didn t feel like he HAD to qualify, because he knew, it would be almost impossible. Without pressure to deliver, he brought his A-game, but then he struggles with more pressure again.
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On January 15 2020 23:43 KalWarkov wrote:
Cure is almost as good with high ping as without it.
idk how, but its true.
Also idk how elazer does it every time. i see so many flaws in his play compared to other zergs and yet he outperforms them every time
Elazer makes many mistakes, for sure, but he also seems to do a lot of extra stuff right. He can really put on the aggro sometimes, and has decent game-sense (pre-hive tech time at least  )
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So Elazer wins on 2 ZvZ's that he's favored to win and then vs Special playing from KR with ping in a 3-2 close series.
Not a good way to build confidence for him, but we've seen him do miracles before when no one expected anything out of him.
The other story was that no Protoss got farther than the Ro16 except Showtime and Neeb and both of them got knocked out by Denver. Who the hell is Denver?!
Yet we've had 2 Korean Protosses advance already with another qualifier yet to be played.
Gonna be an interesting tournament. There's not many conclusions you can draw from these brackets so far except which players look dominant and which ones don't.
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On January 16 2020 09:16 Vindicare605 wrote:
Who the hell is Denver?!
He's a Zerg. Which is about all it takes to best protoss right now.
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Northern Ireland26252 Posts
On January 16 2020 09:25 LTCM wrote:He's a Zerg. Which is about all it takes to best protoss right now.
That or he’s a good player.
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United States33554 Posts
On January 15 2020 23:37 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2020 23:29 Xain0n wrote:On January 15 2020 23:25 Elentos wrote:On January 15 2020 23:07 NinjaNight wrote:
Was Cure's ping actually high? Hard to believe he could nearly beat Serral and crush everyone else on high ping Playing from KR to EU he had pretty high ping, yeah. It was pretty noticeable. The only match he played on even ping was against SpeCial because Juan also played and almost qualified from KR. Let's hope Cure plays at this level in offline korean leagues. He completely flubbed the NA and KR qualifiers on reasonable ping, but then basically beast moded the EU qualifier on terrible ping. Clearly he's in this for the thrill of the challenge. Maybe Cure should play GSL locked into a steel cage, dangling above a lava pit.
Calm down there, stuchiu 
Watch him somehow flop out of GSL/KoreaReplacement qualifiers :[
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On January 16 2020 09:25 LTCM wrote:He's a Zerg. Which is about all it takes to best protoss right now.
he's been tier 2 EU zerg for a long time, always capable of competing with top players, just not quite as consistent or strong. he's not an unknown, just one of many strong EU zergs who aren't Serral/Reynor/Elazer/etc.
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On January 15 2020 21:15 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2020 20:05 Dedraterllaerau wrote:
My predictions of Protoss struggling with this current balance is starting to show itself already, I fear we are gonna have a Zerg dominated year again with T maybe able to compete. Why? Because we had one qualifier not 1/1/1 ? Sure Classic's departure hurt, but I think we need more time to let things settle
Yeah, it is very early to say, but looking at how the meta is evolving so far and how strong Terran and Zerg are compared to Protoss both defensively and aggressively I don't really see how Protoss will manage any results in longer series consistently at the end of the year.
I find it hard to believe every good Protoss player we had suddenly decided to go into a slump at the same time, over that long a period.
Protoss win rates have for a majority of SC2 been all inns, as Blizzard has now been nerfing every single Protoss all in for a very long time, you start to see how weak Protoss really is when Terrans and Zergs are getting way too comfortable defending everything.
Blizzard really needs someone working for them that has deep understanding because their balance decisions are hugely affected by the masses which is completely unreliable input.
For those playing Protoss that plan to make a living of sc2 in 2020 I feel really bad for them, a few more months I believe we will start to see Protoss really struggle unless some top-end Protoss pulls a bunny out of a hat and creates a playstyle we could never have imagined would be viable.
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On January 15 2020 23:07 NinjaNight wrote:
Was Cure's ping actually high? Hard to believe he could nearly beat Serral and crush everyone else on high ping
Why is it hard to believe?
He is a one of the stronger mid-tier gsl players
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Cure: Online beast, offline not so much
Denver: Has just recently gone fulltime pro (I think?, I read that somewhere on TL)
Elazer: Third best foreign Zerg for a while now
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On January 16 2020 17:24 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2020 23:07 NinjaNight wrote:
Was Cure's ping actually high? Hard to believe he could nearly beat Serral and crush everyone else on high ping Why is it hard to believe? He is a one of the stronger mid-tier gsl players
Implying that "mid tier" GSL players should nearly be able to beat Serral when playing on high ping, you must be joking! Serral has mantained a dominating win ratio against the best koreans offline in the last two years, he would roflstomp any lesser korean(on 200+ ping especially); online Cure is one of the strongest koreans at the moment tho, if you did not notice.
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Players all have ups and downs. On Serral's worst days, mid-tier GSLers definitely have a decent chance. On Serral's best, they still have a small chance. You people all need to understand that everything is probabilistic. In table tennis, the #1 ranked player is rated far higher than the #2 player, yet he still sometimes struggles against players ranked #10-ish. It's no different in chess, and no different in SC2. It's very possible that Cure is having an upsurge in his ability, also. Nothing should be counted out.
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France12908 Posts
On January 16 2020 09:16 Vindicare605 wrote:
Who the hell is Denver?!
He is the best french zerg atm, was the sub for France at Nation Wars. Apparently he went full time relatively recently so that might explain his jump from sub top EU to probably top EU soon.
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On January 17 2020 01:27 tigon_ridge wrote:
Players all have ups and downs. On Serral's worst days, mid-tier GSLers definitely have a decent chance. On Serral's best, they still have a small chance. You people all need to understand that everything is probabilistic. In table tennis, the #1 ranked player is rated far higher than the #2 player, yet he still sometimes struggles against players ranked #10-ish. It's no different in chess, and no different in SC2. It's very possible that Cure is having an upsurge in his ability, also. Nothing should be counted out.
I do understand it perfectly and I never take things for granted.
By the way, "decent chance"? According to Aligulac, Dream is the #16 best korean player and he would have a 18% to beat Serral in a bo3, not taking into consideration KR to EU ping disadvantage. Those are the hopes a "mid tier" korean has against Serral, it seems very different from what BerserkSword was suggesting.
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I don't think he was necessarily implying that Serral is only slightly stronger than a mid-level GSLer. To me occasional "upsets" should be expected. I wouldn't be shocked to see Serral lose to anybody. Dark lost 1-3 to Elazer, and Maru couldn't make it out of groupstage in more tournaments than one; sooo yea nothing should surprise anyone anymore.
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On January 17 2020 01:57 tigon_ridge wrote:
I don't think he was necessarily implying that Serral is only slightly stronger than a mid-level GSLer. To me occasional "upsets" should be expected. I wouldn't be shocked to see Serral lose to anybody. Dark lost 1-3 to Elazer, and Maru couldn't make it out of groupstage in more tournaments than one; sooo yea nothing should surprise anyone anymore.
Elazer beating Dark seemed more surprising than it should have considering Dark's ZvZ at the time and their match history; that was not a real upset.
According to Berserk, "strong mid tier"(which Cure is not, online he is one of the best) koreans playing on 300 ping are to be expected to have very hard fought series against Serral.
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For all we know Dark's ZvZ may still suck (relatively), and he may have had just a lucky run against Reynor.
If you examine the games between Serral and Cure, Serral was even-ish in the 3rd game until he uncharacteristically got overconfident attacking off creep. I think overconfidence from the 2-0 lead and the ping advantage was a factor. Roach/Rav all-in is always a dice roll, and either wins, or fails and then zerg is done for. In all the 3 games Serral won, he did it seemingly effortlessly, as he was dominating from beginning to end. From this perspective, it actually wasn't so close.
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On January 17 2020 02:39 tigon_ridge wrote:
For all we know Dark's ZvZ may still suck (relatively), and he may have had just a lucky run against Reynor.
If you examine the games between Serral and Cure, Serral was even-ish in the 3rd game until he uncharacteristically got overconfident attacking off creep. I think overconfidence from the 2-0 lead and the ping advantage was a factor. Roach/Rav all-in is always a dice roll, and either wins, or fails and then zerg is done for. In all the 3 games Serral won, he did it seemingly effortlessly, as he was dominating from beginning to end. From this perspective, it actually wasn't so close.
In G3 Serral was also supply blocked multiple times and floating money. Uncharacteristic by him but also not sure if it is meaningful, probably wanted to finish the series too quickly and messed up a lot of things.
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Northern Ireland26252 Posts
Plot twist, Serral decided to play Cure on the Korean server as he fancied a tougher challenge
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On January 17 2020 02:39 tigon_ridge wrote:
For all we know Dark's ZvZ may still suck (relatively), and he may have had just a lucky run against Reynor.
If you examine the games between Serral and Cure, Serral was even-ish in the 3rd game until he uncharacteristically got overconfident attacking off creep. I think overconfidence from the 2-0 lead and the ping advantage was a factor. Roach/Rav all-in is always a dice roll, and either wins, or fails and then zerg is done for. In all the 3 games Serral won, he did it seemingly effortlessly, as he was dominating from beginning to end. From this perspective, it actually wasn't so close.
And Serral always struggles at the beginning of a year (historically proven I guess)
For all we know it might be because Finnland doesn't have much daylight these days
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EPT
Serral, 
