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On January 08 2020 06:05 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2020 05:46 Wombat_NI wrote:On January 08 2020 05:17 Jealous wrote:On January 08 2020 04:34 franzji wrote:On January 08 2020 04:17 Elentos wrote:On January 08 2020 03:49 franzji wrote:
Apollo is hinting at removing the region lock in future years.
Please don't do this. We know from experience that it will only hurt the regions we have worked so hard to build. Don't even give the anti-region lock people a voice.
We also know from other esports that we should he region based esports if was want continued success.
Just create more international events if you want more Koreans vs. others. A few Koreans under lifted region lock will hardly kill the foreign scene (you could always limit participation since the other regions have limited qualifier spots too), especially since the Korean scene shrinks year by year. 2020 is probably the last year there are enough Korean pros to fill a Ro32 Code S. We should give them as many chances to show themselves as they can, because their scene has much worse chances in the long term than the other regions, especially EU. This isn't much of an argument. Starcraft 2 isn't popular in Korea and it won't grow if Korean players come over the sea to take amateur player's slots in tournaments. We already know this for a fact. The Korean scene did not and does not continue to shrink because of the region lock. Years down the road, and even in the face of testimony from the people who will be running SC2 for the next 3 years, jingoistic foreigners still scared of Koreans coming from an unequivocably dying competitive scene and knocking out RandomEuropePlayer2678 from a tournament, still valuing nationality over skill. Don't ever change, SC2 community. It’s never really been about nations for me anyway, more having a sustainable flow that talent can progress through. One of eSports main advantages over other activities is a low cost and a low barrier to entry, you don’t need much equipment bar a rig, the internet and some peripherals and you’re good to go. You don’t need to find a local club, pay memberships, etc etc. The Korean pro scene at its peak did stifle things elsewhere by having certain advantages, now the Korean scene is in need of some love and Id like to see that happen too. I can respect the desire for development of a local scene, but I do think that doing so in favor of propping up inferior players onto a global stage over other more deserving competitors was a ridiculous idea from the start - particularly, as you said, for a largely online-based competition. I also respect that you specified that for you it has never been about nations (or races, I presume), and I can say the same for myself - if the top 32 players are Korean or residents of some northern Icelandic province, I don't care - I just want to see the best vs. the best to determine who is the best of the best. However, there were many many people who complained about "faceless Koreans" in the lead-up to region locking. So while many people may have felt as you do, quite a few had other, more troubling and jingoistic concerns.
"propping up inferior players onto a global stage over other more deserving competitors was a ridiculous idea from the start "
Region locking is the farthest thing from being ridiculous. Every other esport saw Starcraft's mistake avoided it from the start. Examples include League of Legends, Rocket League, even freaking Fortnite. And you know who else does regional based competition? Real sports do.
Wanting to see the best of the best fight is best served for the big international events, 2 or 3 a year. It generates a lot of hype.
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Where's Tempo's song when you need it! Thank God for ESL, Dreamhack, and Blizzard!
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On January 08 2020 06:06 Elentos wrote:"Later this year" really could mean anything
Yeah. I'm hoping we finally get that dark theme for TL.net.
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Canada8990 Posts
On January 08 2020 06:30 sneakyfox wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2020 06:06 Elentos wrote:"Later this year" really could mean anything Yeah. I'm hoping we finally get that dark theme for TL.net.
Or an update to TLPD
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On January 08 2020 06:30 sneakyfox wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2020 06:06 Elentos wrote:"Later this year" really could mean anything Yeah. I'm hoping we finally get that dark theme for TL.net.
Someone used to have a firefox extension for it years ago, but then they updated the website and it broke 
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Austria24422 Posts
On January 08 2020 06:31 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2020 06:30 sneakyfox wrote:On January 08 2020 06:06 Elentos wrote:"Later this year" really could mean anything Yeah. I'm hoping we finally get that dark theme for TL.net. Or an update to TLPD
Just kill it
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Total Biscuit's erect esports penis L I T E R A L L Y piercing the heavens to save SC2
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all i have to say is hell yeah
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On January 08 2020 06:20 franzji wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2020 06:05 Jealous wrote:On January 08 2020 05:46 Wombat_NI wrote:On January 08 2020 05:17 Jealous wrote:On January 08 2020 04:34 franzji wrote:On January 08 2020 04:17 Elentos wrote:On January 08 2020 03:49 franzji wrote:
Apollo is hinting at removing the region lock in future years.
Please don't do this. We know from experience that it will only hurt the regions we have worked so hard to build. Don't even give the anti-region lock people a voice.
We also know from other esports that we should he region based esports if was want continued success.
Just create more international events if you want more Koreans vs. others. A few Koreans under lifted region lock will hardly kill the foreign scene (you could always limit participation since the other regions have limited qualifier spots too), especially since the Korean scene shrinks year by year. 2020 is probably the last year there are enough Korean pros to fill a Ro32 Code S. We should give them as many chances to show themselves as they can, because their scene has much worse chances in the long term than the other regions, especially EU. This isn't much of an argument. Starcraft 2 isn't popular in Korea and it won't grow if Korean players come over the sea to take amateur player's slots in tournaments. We already know this for a fact. The Korean scene did not and does not continue to shrink because of the region lock. Years down the road, and even in the face of testimony from the people who will be running SC2 for the next 3 years, jingoistic foreigners still scared of Koreans coming from an unequivocably dying competitive scene and knocking out RandomEuropePlayer2678 from a tournament, still valuing nationality over skill. Don't ever change, SC2 community. It’s never really been about nations for me anyway, more having a sustainable flow that talent can progress through. One of eSports main advantages over other activities is a low cost and a low barrier to entry, you don’t need much equipment bar a rig, the internet and some peripherals and you’re good to go. You don’t need to find a local club, pay memberships, etc etc. The Korean pro scene at its peak did stifle things elsewhere by having certain advantages, now the Korean scene is in need of some love and Id like to see that happen too. I can respect the desire for development of a local scene, but I do think that doing so in favor of propping up inferior players onto a global stage over other more deserving competitors was a ridiculous idea from the start - particularly, as you said, for a largely online-based competition. I also respect that you specified that for you it has never been about nations (or races, I presume), and I can say the same for myself - if the top 32 players are Korean or residents of some northern Icelandic province, I don't care - I just want to see the best vs. the best to determine who is the best of the best. However, there were many many people who complained about "faceless Koreans" in the lead-up to region locking. So while many people may have felt as you do, quite a few had other, more troubling and jingoistic concerns. "propping up inferior players onto a global stage over other more deserving competitors was a ridiculous idea from the start " Region locking is the farthest thing from being ridiculous. Every other esport saw Starcraft's mistake avoided it from the start. Examples include League of Legends, Rocket League, even freaking Fortnite. And you know who else does regional based competition? Real sports do. Wanting to see the best of the best fight is best served for the big international events, 2 or 3 a year. It generates a lot of hype.
We don't have regional based competion though.
Unless you consider "all nations except korea" a region which maybe made sense when the korean scene was still somewhat healthy but is getting more and more ridicolous with every passing year.
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On January 08 2020 05:56 blooblooblahblah wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2020 05:04 Solar424 wrote:
So this is the same as what we've had in the past, except Blizzard doesn't want it at Blizzcon? Not sure why people are treating this as the greatest thing ever, all I see is that Blizzard doesn't want anything to do with SC2, which is a very bad sign. Also, there's still been no word on GSL for this year. Idk how hard you had to try to have a perspective like this.. This is great news for everyone, and while GSL isn't announced yet, it's heavily implied that there will be 3 Korean league champions so there is at least gonna be 3 GSL-esque style tournaments, at the very least. Better prize pool distribution, better point distribution, more offline events, weekly online cups, most likely better production..
I think people don't realize how significant of a downgrade this year is. Last year had 3 $100k WCS events, 3 $150k GSL's, 2 $25k Super Tournaments, 2 $60k WCS Winter events, 18 ~$10k WCS Challenger events, $25k Assembly Summer, $80k GS vs The World, $400k IEM Katowice, and $700k Blizzcon, for a total of $2,305,000 in prize money. This year where, even assuming GSL funding stays the same, we'll have 156 $100 online cups, 4 $125k ESL Masters tournaments, and $400k IEM Katowice in addition to the $480k from the Korean scene, for a total of just $1,495,600 in prize money. That's a drop of over a third. Blizzcon was nearly a third of the WCS prize pool last year, and with that gone and nothing to replace it, the scene is overall worse off. Also, no one has mentioned the $325,000 boost that will only apply to this year, so the prize pool will go down even further in 2021.
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On January 08 2020 07:42 Solar424 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2020 05:56 blooblooblahblah wrote:On January 08 2020 05:04 Solar424 wrote:
So this is the same as what we've had in the past, except Blizzard doesn't want it at Blizzcon? Not sure why people are treating this as the greatest thing ever, all I see is that Blizzard doesn't want anything to do with SC2, which is a very bad sign. Also, there's still been no word on GSL for this year. Idk how hard you had to try to have a perspective like this.. This is great news for everyone, and while GSL isn't announced yet, it's heavily implied that there will be 3 Korean league champions so there is at least gonna be 3 GSL-esque style tournaments, at the very least. Better prize pool distribution, better point distribution, more offline events, weekly online cups, most likely better production.. I think people don't realize how significant of a downgrade this year is. Last year had 3 $100k WCS events, 3 $150k GSL's, 2 $25k Super Tournaments, 2 $60k WCS Winter events, 18 ~$10k WCS Challenger events, $25k Assembly Summer, $80k GS vs The World, $400k IEM Katowice, and $700k Blizzcon, for a total of $2,305,000 in prize money. This year where, even assuming GSL funding stays the same, we'll have 156 $100 online cups, 4 $125k ESL Masters tournaments, and $400k IEM Katowice in addition to the $480k from the Korean scene, for a total of just $1,495,600 in prize money. That's a drop of over a third. Blizzcon was nearly a third of the WCS prize pool last year, and with that gone and nothing to replace it, the scene is overall worse off. Also, no one has mentioned the $325,000 boost that will only apply to this year, so the prize pool will go down even further in 2021.
I didn't expect Blizzard to fund the esports scene for 3 more years so this is good news for me.
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Canada8990 Posts
On January 08 2020 07:42 Solar424 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2020 05:56 blooblooblahblah wrote:On January 08 2020 05:04 Solar424 wrote:
So this is the same as what we've had in the past, except Blizzard doesn't want it at Blizzcon? Not sure why people are treating this as the greatest thing ever, all I see is that Blizzard doesn't want anything to do with SC2, which is a very bad sign. Also, there's still been no word on GSL for this year. Idk how hard you had to try to have a perspective like this.. This is great news for everyone, and while GSL isn't announced yet, it's heavily implied that there will be 3 Korean league champions so there is at least gonna be 3 GSL-esque style tournaments, at the very least. Better prize pool distribution, better point distribution, more offline events, weekly online cups, most likely better production.. I think people don't realize how significant of a downgrade this year is. Last year had 3 $100k WCS events, 3 $150k GSL's, 2 $25k Super Tournaments, 2 $60k WCS Winter events, 18 ~$10k WCS Challenger events, $25k Assembly Summer, $80k GS vs The World, $400k IEM Katowice, and $700k Blizzcon, for a total of $2,305,000 in prize money. This year where, even assuming GSL funding stays the same, we'll have 156 $100 online cups, 4 $125k ESL Masters tournaments, and $400k IEM Katowice in addition to the $480k from the Korean scene, for a total of just $1,495,600 in prize money. That's a drop of over a third. Blizzcon was nearly a third of the WCS prize pool last year, and with that gone and nothing to replace it, the scene is overall worse off. Also, no one has mentioned the $325,000 boost that will only apply to this year, so the prize pool will go down even further in 2021.
Didn't Apolo just said there was 1.9 million in prize pool not counting Korea?
I'm assuming you're missing something?
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On January 08 2020 07:42 Solar424 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2020 05:56 blooblooblahblah wrote:On January 08 2020 05:04 Solar424 wrote:
So this is the same as what we've had in the past, except Blizzard doesn't want it at Blizzcon? Not sure why people are treating this as the greatest thing ever, all I see is that Blizzard doesn't want anything to do with SC2, which is a very bad sign. Also, there's still been no word on GSL for this year. Idk how hard you had to try to have a perspective like this.. This is great news for everyone, and while GSL isn't announced yet, it's heavily implied that there will be 3 Korean league champions so there is at least gonna be 3 GSL-esque style tournaments, at the very least. Better prize pool distribution, better point distribution, more offline events, weekly online cups, most likely better production.. I think people don't realize how significant of a downgrade this year is. Last year had 3 $100k WCS events, 3 $150k GSL's, 2 $25k Super Tournaments, 2 $60k WCS Winter events, 18 ~$10k WCS Challenger events, $25k Assembly Summer, $80k GS vs The World, $400k IEM Katowice, and $700k Blizzcon, for a total of $2,305,000 in prize money. This year where, even assuming GSL funding stays the same, we'll have 156 $100 online cups, 4 $125k ESL Masters tournaments, and $400k IEM Katowice in addition to the $480k from the Korean scene, for a total of just $1,495,600 in prize money. That's a drop of over a third. Blizzcon was nearly a third of the WCS prize pool last year, and with that gone and nothing to replace it, the scene is overall worse off. Also, no one has mentioned the $325,000 boost that will only apply to this year, so the prize pool will go down even further in 2021. User was warned for this post
The announced prize pool doesn't count korean tournaments because we don't know the full details yet. If GSL keeps the same prize pools we would have one of the biggest prize pool years.
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On January 08 2020 07:52 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2020 07:42 Solar424 wrote:On January 08 2020 05:56 blooblooblahblah wrote:On January 08 2020 05:04 Solar424 wrote:
So this is the same as what we've had in the past, except Blizzard doesn't want it at Blizzcon? Not sure why people are treating this as the greatest thing ever, all I see is that Blizzard doesn't want anything to do with SC2, which is a very bad sign. Also, there's still been no word on GSL for this year. Idk how hard you had to try to have a perspective like this.. This is great news for everyone, and while GSL isn't announced yet, it's heavily implied that there will be 3 Korean league champions so there is at least gonna be 3 GSL-esque style tournaments, at the very least. Better prize pool distribution, better point distribution, more offline events, weekly online cups, most likely better production.. I think people don't realize how significant of a downgrade this year is. Last year had 3 $100k WCS events, 3 $150k GSL's, 2 $25k Super Tournaments, 2 $60k WCS Winter events, 18 ~$10k WCS Challenger events, $25k Assembly Summer, $80k GS vs The World, $400k IEM Katowice, and $700k Blizzcon, for a total of $2,305,000 in prize money. This year where, even assuming GSL funding stays the same, we'll have 156 $100 online cups, 4 $125k ESL Masters tournaments, and $400k IEM Katowice in addition to the $480k from the Korean scene, for a total of just $1,495,600 in prize money. That's a drop of over a third. Blizzcon was nearly a third of the WCS prize pool last year, and with that gone and nothing to replace it, the scene is overall worse off. Also, no one has mentioned the $325,000 boost that will only apply to this year, so the prize pool will go down even further in 2021. Didn't Apolo just said there was 1.9 million in prize pool not counting Korea? I'm assuming you're missing something?
Whiny people are pretty good at missing somethings.
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United States33650 Posts
On January 08 2020 07:42 Solar424 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2020 05:56 blooblooblahblah wrote:On January 08 2020 05:04 Solar424 wrote:
So this is the same as what we've had in the past, except Blizzard doesn't want it at Blizzcon? Not sure why people are treating this as the greatest thing ever, all I see is that Blizzard doesn't want anything to do with SC2, which is a very bad sign. Also, there's still been no word on GSL for this year. Idk how hard you had to try to have a perspective like this.. This is great news for everyone, and while GSL isn't announced yet, it's heavily implied that there will be 3 Korean league champions so there is at least gonna be 3 GSL-esque style tournaments, at the very least. Better prize pool distribution, better point distribution, more offline events, weekly online cups, most likely better production.. I think people don't realize how significant of a downgrade this year is. Last year had 3 $100k WCS events, 3 $150k GSL's, 2 $25k Super Tournaments, 2 $60k WCS Winter events, 18 ~$10k WCS Challenger events, $25k Assembly Summer, $80k GS vs The World, $400k IEM Katowice, and $700k Blizzcon, for a total of $2,305,000 in prize money. This year where, even assuming GSL funding stays the same, we'll have 156 $100 online cups, 4 $125k ESL Masters tournaments, and $400k IEM Katowice in addition to the $480k from the Korean scene, for a total of just $1,495,600 in prize money. That's a drop of over a third. Blizzcon was nearly a third of the WCS prize pool last year, and with that gone and nothing to replace it, the scene is overall worse off. Also, no one has mentioned the $325,000 boost that will only apply to this year, so the prize pool will go down even further in 2021. User was warned for this post
It's an arbitrary judgment, but I'm warning against posting misinformation without checking the original posting which clearly states the actual total for the year, which is ~$1.8m (supplemental info via Apollo's twitter says there's a separate Korean budget on top of this, but I'm not holding that part against you).
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ESL stepping in for 3 years helps to build some stability for the scene I'm most interested to see how other tournaments fit into this mix like Cheeseadelphia
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Great news really. SC2 is a veteran game and it's unreal it got 3 more years. With being F2P, who knows what can happen!
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3 more years is WAY more than I (or I think anyone should have) expected. Banana grin at the moment. 
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EPT
