Proposed changes for creep spread - Page 3

Vision_

870 Posts

December 30 2019 11:17 GMT

#41

Sorry my purpose wasn t to distort about your idea...

In definitive we agree on the main problem :

- zergs doesn t take enought risks
- decisive mid game for Terrans

I m not fan (but i like it) of your idea cause the mecanism of spreading creep is already in this shape. in my mind, spawning tumors with a queen and 'tumor multiplicity' is biased choice - As i show in the graph above, there is an over concentration of queens spawning ability at the start of the game. It s different from an overlapping abbility, it s just like these two spells aren t made to work together (...).

SC2 works in macro management, and adding an upgrade like you said can smooth the start of the mid game, smoothing the step in-between Z massively spwan tumors with queen ability and the 'multiplicity spell'.. however if we are used to melt upgrades one by one in order to make a 'build', i m not fan of the idea of a new 'forced upgrade' (as mandatory to win the game - there is already 'overlord speed'...)

My tought about promote the cleaning tumors action by a terran or a protoss wasn t so drastic, i have only forget some details :

In killing the last tumor, borrowed tentacle of tumor will bleed and heal his wound until the next to last tumor has scared over.. Then, as the process is curing, the tumor hasn t to be revealed, it only become visible 'x' seconds after killing the 'active/multiplicative' one, and then become not visible after it stop bleeding. This delay is done allowing Zerg to defend.

To be honest, your solution is great cause as you said :

Zerg should have to use their queens in more forward positions early game instead of essentially laying a few tumors down and focusing purely on larvae spawns for 60 more secs.

My solution make me happy cause it brings something more to opponents, it promotes players to settle in an area more easily, it promotes to siege before creep lines while the pro player (mainly terran..) actually has to move (and kill ?) into the nest / swarm / base.. To me it s attractive cause i enjoy a new mecanism without changing any parameters in Zerg race (vision, delay, mana cost, ...).

Maybe it s time to rethink again...

PS : Go further with my idea :
+ Show Spoiler +

Then we could have the opportunity to settle some bunkers (with an updated upgrade, separatly from 'neosteel frame' which will also, reduce building time, plus adding 2 cargo space, adding some hit points..). Actually, banelings can easily wipe out a bunker lines whatever you have 4 or 6 cargo space... All marines are too close (crowded) together so it doesn t matter.
It could open a different way to the mid game for struggling against creep, it could demand to zerg players more decision army movement, it offers a turning back to the terran.

All tumors looks like as one unit, as a network...

Test with decreasing vision of tumors (from 10 to 7)... Note you can t spwan new tumors in fog of war.

Vision_

870 Posts

December 30 2019 21:43 GMT

#42

In the same way, Queen could evolve with 50 gas to get the new ability of multiple tumors.. I think for now it s the best solution, in term of design, Queens keep three spells and in term of mecanics we don t add a new upgrade (which would have to be done ftw).

Queen ability in LoTV :
- Spawn single tumor (decreased mana cost from 25 to 15) - tumor can t spawn another tumor...

Evolved Queen (+50 gas):
- Spawn tumors with 'multiplicity' ability mana cost around 50 (i don t know...)

PS : A last proposal could allow to create a tumor from a burrowed tumors in paying some gas (minerals ?)

Pentarp

227 Posts

December 31 2019 03:14 GMT

#43

This is a worthy attempt at examining a fundamental mechanic in the game. I don't know how it plays out, but I feel that it is definitely worth attention/internal-testing.

SC2 is a RTS - emphasis on the strategy. Being able to gain intel on enemy positioning and composition is key, While balance statistics might or might-not reveal it, vision (read: intel) plays a bigger and bigger role as players get better and better.

As other posters have stated, the skill-ceiling of creep is higher than other mechanics for the other races.

BUT

May I suggest that we look for ways to increase the skill-ceiling of other base race-mechanics?

Vision_

870 Posts

December 31 2019 09:58 GMT

#44

The GLOBAL skill-ceiling of races is probably the higher with Terran (You only have to check APM to be sure - must be equal between Zerg and Protoss - we can argue with but it s not the subject),

The Terran are obviously the race which suffers the most of vision, ... Zerg has creep tumors and Protoss have their observators which is not so powerfull (but good enought).

In comparaison, Terran has 'scans' which also reveal invisible units, and while his cost spell could be change to get more 'scans', it can t be done because of dealing with dark templar, borrowed units or so.

The skill ceiling of tumors management has mainly impacted the way of playing with caution (making opponent strategy less and less valuable) ~~and imo, this advantage can t be counter balance with changes inside opponent mecanism races.~~

If we can't change Zerg creep, i propose this for Terran :

pheer

5396 Posts

December 31 2019 16:13 GMT

#45

Terran can float engineering bays or barracks around the map for vision if they want to. Does any player do that?

Nakajin

Canada8989 Posts

December 31 2019 18:06 GMT

#46

On January 01 2020 01:13 pheer wrote:
Terran can float engineering bays or barracks around the map for vision if they want to. Does any player do that?

Ebay can't float in SC2. No one really use barracks to scout outside of the first one if you go mech, but I think it would be worth it a lot of the time to build more of them to scout, they are only worth 3 marines +1 scv building time.

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