Dark claimed the final trophy of the 2019 GSL season, mauling a series of Korean StarCraft luminaries on his way to the Super Tournament 2 championship. After impressive victories against Maru, Stats, and soO in the bracket, Dark concluded his run with a dominating 4-0 against TY in the grand finals.
While Zerg's late-game power has become a topic of fierce debate—with Brood Lord-Infestor receiving much scorn—Dark's play seemed to ask "why wait until the late game to win?" Dark's early-game attacks were as deadly as ever, as was his cheese defense against a cannon-rush from Stats and proxy-barracks from TY. Particularly notable was his use of mass hydra-ling-bane against TY and Maru, where the throwback unit composition still proved to be strong enough to overpower Korea's top two Terrans.
The Super Tournament victory confirmed Dark's place as the #1 seed from the WCS Korea region, a well-earned result in a year where he won his first GSL Code S title and also reached the Code S top four on two other occasions.
The finals sweep was a deflating end to an otherwise entertaining tournament run from TY, who demonstrated the potential of mech in TvP against both PartinG And herO. Still, he may have ended up earning himself more than just the runner-up prize of 5,000,000 KRW. His 2nd place performance gave him enough points to over take Dear as #9 in the WCS Korea standings, one spot outside of the WCS Global Finals cutoff. TY is now immediately in line to replace Classic (#3), should Classic forfeit his spot as a result of being denied international travel permission by the Korean military (announcement pending). Otherwise, the WCS Korea standings have been finalized with the conclusion of Super Tournament 2.
The sixteen (or seventeen) Global Finalists now look ahead to the group stage of the WCS Global Finals, which is set to begin on October 24th at the AfreecaTV studio in Seoul.
Pretty good final ST Tournament, Classic absolutely deserves it and I really hope he gets to go, but if he can’t then we have another Korean Terran who is currently looking in good shape
omg if classic gets bumped we lose Maru / Serral Group !? ; O! please no! - even tho I want another Kr Terran there so bad - I guess there's still a chance they meet later on.
On October 07 2019 08:57 DomeGetta wrote: omg if classic gets bumped we lose Maru / Serral Group !? ; O! please no! - even tho I want another Kr Terran there so bad - I guess there's still a chance they meet later on.
At this point, I actually don't want to see Maru/Serral. I'm a huge Maru fan, but I think Serral will totally destroy him. Serral is still in great shape, Maru is just in "good" shape.
Dark and Rogue really looking powerful, bl/festor I think is without a doubt very OP (again) but late game air armies seem to be taking a pretty big hit in this latest post Blizzcon balance patch, which I definitely think is the for the best.
Here's to hoping that Gateway units get the changes needed to be more dominant in PvT at the least. Gateway has always necessitated weird balancing and scaling compared to the other races, hence why Protoss seems to be the only race with units that have had multiple redesigns.
On October 07 2019 08:57 DomeGetta wrote: omg if classic gets bumped we lose Maru / Serral Group !? ; O! please no! - even tho I want another Kr Terran there so bad - I guess there's still a chance they meet later on.
At this point, I actually don't want to see Maru/Serral. I'm a huge Maru fan, but I think Serral will totally destroy him. Serral is still in great shape, Maru is just in "good" shape.
Im hoping Maru was holding back in ST vs Dark - not that Dark is not an absolute monster in ZvT - (has anyone ever 4-0'd TY before?) Maru's style he showed in code S vs Ragna I think would be epic to watch vs Serral. I know meta is not the best for late game T vs. Z but my hope is still alive for an epic historic series.
On October 07 2019 08:57 DomeGetta wrote: Im hoping Maru was holding back in ST vs Dark ...
I dont know. Didn't Special says that Maru practicing his ass off, because he doesn't want to be in Serral group? In that point view is, lose against Dark pretty surprising.
On October 07 2019 08:57 DomeGetta wrote: omg if classic gets bumped we lose Maru / Serral Group !? ; O! please no! - even tho I want another Kr Terran there so bad - I guess there's still a chance they meet later on.
At this point, I actually don't want to see Maru/Serral. I'm a huge Maru fan, but I think Serral will totally destroy him. Serral is still in great shape, Maru is just in "good" shape.
Im hoping Maru was holding back in ST vs Dark - not that Dark is not an absolute monster in ZvT - (has anyone ever 4-0'd TY before?) Maru's style he showed in code S vs Ragna I think would be epic to watch vs Serral. I know meta is not the best for late game T vs. Z but my hope is still alive for an epic historic series.
I believe INnoVation 4-0 TY in GSL vs the World finals.
I don't think Maru was holding back but I think his form is not great right now whereas Dark looks very strong. Dark seems to have a really good grasp of cheese, whether he is on the receiving end or he is the one cheesing. I also like that he is doing great against terran without being so reliant on broodlord-infestor like other zerg.
I'd be surprised if no one among Serral, Rogue or Dark win Blizzcon.
On October 07 2019 15:00 Geo.Rion wrote: So it's Serral, Maru, Time and Stats in the same group?
If Classic makes it then yeah but otherwise it will be soO and TY replacing Stats and Maru. For those interested, I think that means Serral will either be playing TY or Stats in the first match.
I feel like even though Zerg I feel is in a very strong place at the moment, Dark still played extremely well all tournament. In a perfectly balanced world, I'd still say he'd have won this tournament.
Dark showed a pretty impressive ZvZ against soO. It was a very clean victory. I don't know if he stand a chance against Serral or Reynor or other EU Zerg but I think it's the first time I see Dark with that serenity in this match up it was always his worst before.
I think both Rogue and Dark if they want to win Blizzcon they had to make intensive training on EU server.
On October 07 2019 08:57 DomeGetta wrote: omg if classic gets bumped we lose Maru / Serral Group !? ; O! please no! - even tho I want another Kr Terran there so bad - I guess there's still a chance they meet later on.
At this point, I actually don't want to see Maru/Serral. I'm a huge Maru fan, but I think Serral will totally destroy him. Serral is still in great shape, Maru is just in "good" shape.
Im hoping Maru was holding back in ST vs Dark
By all accounts he was trying his hardest to win in order to minimize the chances of ending up in a Blizzcon group with Serral and Stats.
Dark looked positively unbeatable against TY, he made zerg look OP.
Dark was ahead cruising to a win in every game except the last one and the reason it was close then was because he was too cocky and counter attacked instead of properly defending his expansion. TY got critical damage done that leveled the playing field in that game, Dark still took it though.
The second game (I think it was second) was the most telling, TY went for 2-1-1 with a very invested hellbat followup attack with 0 upgrades behind it. The attack was easily defended by Dark who was still up a lot in drones, TY was just easily finished off with wave after wave of lingt/bane after that.
It just feels like Dark can play safe, defend any early pressure while still getting ahead economically and then just roll over TY with endless ling/bane. Mech didn't work to counter it because then Dark just teched to hydras and vipers, mines didn't work against either Dark just split and controlled well. What would work? I can't believe Dark got behind in game 4 from TYs pressure and went mass ling/bling against TYs bio/mine play with drilling claws and still just outplayed TY.
Not balance whining just saying Dark looked he played a fourth race with no weakness in this series.
On October 07 2019 16:37 Shuffleblade wrote: Dark looked positively unbeatable against TY, he made zerg look OP.
Imagine for a moment if Dark did a proxy hatch that completely failed and lost, then did a ravager all-in that did no damage and lost, then went for a super greedy build and died to hellbats. And then they play game 4 but TY does slightly better in some aspects and ends up winning 4-0.
On October 07 2019 16:37 Shuffleblade wrote: Dark looked positively unbeatable against TY, he made zerg look OP.
Imagine for a moment if Dark did a proxy hatch that completely failed and lost, then did a ravager all-in that did no damage and lost, then went for a super greedy build and died to hellbats. And then they play game 4 but TY does slightly better in some aspects and ends up winning 4-0.
Did he make Terran look OP?
First game aside, second game was not an all in, it was a dedicated push and yes, if Dark did the same kind of invested attack against a greedy TY were Dark seemed unable to do any damage at all against TY then yes TY would have made terran look OP. If any race can greed and easily defend that level of invested timing attacks that race looks OP.
Third game looked nothing like you describe, sure TY went for a greedy build, Dark for a dedicated push that did damage but TY survived and was put roughly 10 workers behind in a 3 base vs 3 base scenario. TYs position was actually not that bad after surviving the the ravager push.
Game 4, Dark did slightly better in some aspects, lol. Dark was so confident he could defend TYs attack he sent what 25 lings ish to counter attack? Dark was up 16 workers and a base and still choose to counter attack, that shows how lightly he takes TYs attack. Yes if any race can be greedy, up a base and 16 workers and feel they have the leeway to split off almost half their army to counter attack when the opponent is attacking him then yes that race looks OP.
Stop spouting nonsense about games that didn't happen, the first game was the only game you described accurately.
TY's position on Thunderbird was fairly awful after the ravager attack.
And yes, hellbat 2-1-1 is a cheese, not a good build for macro games. Neither is losing SCVs in main to banelings that were morphed there by the Zerg. And Dark wasn't greedy, he made a bane nest vs 211. It would have been greedy if he hadn't. And he would have lost the game then.
On October 07 2019 17:31 machinus wrote: TY is a master macro player.
He would not have opened with cheese so many times if there was a winning late game plan in TvP.
TY is better than you. You can trust that he chose the builds that gave him the best odds vs. Zerg.
TYs vs Z has always been a bit overrated. Its no surprise he got trashed by top form Dark.
Even though it wasnt always the case in the past year or so, Dark is probably the best ZvT player of all time. When he is in this kind of form I dont see a Terran besides Maru who can stand up to him that is just how good he is in the matchup.
On October 07 2019 18:13 Poopi wrote: Am I the only one that is getting a bit pissed about the whole Classic thing? We still don't know if he is going or not, so we don't know:
a) if TY qualifies to BlizzCon allowing 2 korean terrans to go. b) if Maru is in the group of death with Serral, Stats and TIME or not.
That's hella annoying :/. Hopefully we get some news soon.
Same here... And I dont even know what I would like better. Obviously it would be great to have TY but the possibility to have this group is super awesome as well. Anyone could advance from these 4. 3 of them are top 5 contenders, and Time has shown he has to potential to snipe even Serral if he prepares well. Just insane.
On October 07 2019 17:24 Ej_ wrote: TY's position on Thunderbird was fairly awful after the ravager attack.
And yes, hellbat 2-1-1 is a cheese, not a good build for macro games. Neither is losing SCVs in main to banelings that were morphed there by the Zerg. And Dark wasn't greedy, he made a bane nest vs 211. It would have been greedy if he hadn't. And he would have lost the game then.
Yeah I can agree with that, I don't believe he would have lost the game against the normal 2-1-1 marine medivac timing if he had built the baneling nest later. Still overall you are right, still think Darks play was bloody amazing.
I still get shocked at what qualifies as "cheese" nowadays, he starts his third 6:20, sure it is late and it is not a macro build. Is that really what builds are nowadays, macro builds or cheese builds and thats all there is? What is a normal build then?
In my mind there are macro builds revolving around only defending early, macro builds that integrate harassment to slow the opponent.
Balanced builds that revolve around more intricate harassment to try and get ahead through doing economic damage or forcing the opponent to invest in defenses to avoid massive damage and therefore can't be too greedy.
Agressive builds like the 2-1-1 into hellbat that still does lead into the midgame but rely on dealing heavy damage to the opponent through harass or a lot of direct damage.
Cheese builds that doesn't transition into the midgame and revolve around winning with the attack or to lose if it fails.
On October 07 2019 18:13 Poopi wrote: Am I the only one that is getting a bit pissed about the whole Classic thing? We still don't know if he is going or not, so we don't know:
a) if TY qualifies to BlizzCon allowing 2 korean terrans to go. b) if Maru is in the group of death with Serral, Stats and TIME or not.
That's hella annoying :/. Hopefully we get some news soon.
If it is a scenario where the government has not given him a decision: There is no reason to be pissed. Classic lives in a country that has mandatory service because an extremely volatile and dangerous country sits at their border. We need to be patient and understanding of their culture and government and allow their process to happen as they see fit.
If Classic already knows and for some reason is withholding this information then I guess you could be pissed, but I defer to patience and understanding and encourage you to do so too.
On October 07 2019 18:13 Poopi wrote: Am I the only one that is getting a bit pissed about the whole Classic thing? We still don't know if he is going or not, so we don't know:
a) if TY qualifies to BlizzCon allowing 2 korean terrans to go. b) if Maru is in the group of death with Serral, Stats and TIME or not.
That's hella annoying :/. Hopefully we get some news soon.
And you're not a player who's trying to prepare his best for the blizzcon group while not knowing in which group you end.
On October 07 2019 18:13 Poopi wrote: Am I the only one that is getting a bit pissed about the whole Classic thing? We still don't know if he is going or not, so we don't know:
a) if TY qualifies to BlizzCon allowing 2 korean terrans to go. b) if Maru is in the group of death with Serral, Stats and TIME or not.
That's hella annoying :/. Hopefully we get some news soon.
If it is a scenario where the government has not given him a decision: There is no reason to be pissed. Classic lives in a country that has mandatory service because an extremely volatile and dangerous country sits at their border. We need to be patient and understanding of their culture and government and allow their process to happen as they see fit.
If Classic already knows and for some reason is withholding this information then I guess you could be pissed, but I defer to patience and understanding and encourage you to do so too.
Yeah sure, but this thing starts in 2 weeks. If I were a player, I would really like to use those 2 weeks to prepare builds and study opponents
On October 07 2019 18:13 Poopi wrote: Am I the only one that is getting a bit pissed about the whole Classic thing? We still don't know if he is going or not, so we don't know:
a) if TY qualifies to BlizzCon allowing 2 korean terrans to go. b) if Maru is in the group of death with Serral, Stats and TIME or not.
That's hella annoying :/. Hopefully we get some news soon.
And you're not a player who's trying to prepare his best for the blizzcon group while not knowing in which group you end.
I dont know, I obviously dont speak Korean, and i even missed some of the interviews so i'm not aware exactly what was being said, but to me it seemed that nobody really gave much thought to Classic not making it to Blizzcon, like non of the pros were taking that possibility into account.
Previously I said that no way Blizz has enough pull to postpone Classic's military service, but ever since then there wasnt any talk about that, so I sortof reached the conclusion that Classic will attend Blizzcon, he managed to postpone it but there wasnt any big announcement about it? maybe because him missing Blizzcon wasnt announced either, so there wasnt anything to refute/take back, since it was all speculation from the casters? Maybe?
On October 07 2019 18:13 Poopi wrote: Am I the only one that is getting a bit pissed about the whole Classic thing? We still don't know if he is going or not, so we don't know:
a) if TY qualifies to BlizzCon allowing 2 korean terrans to go. b) if Maru is in the group of death with Serral, Stats and TIME or not.
That's hella annoying :/. Hopefully we get some news soon.
And you're not a player who's trying to prepare his best for the blizzcon group while not knowing in which group you end.
I dont know, I obviously dont speak Korean, and i even missed some of the interviews so i'm not aware exactly what was being said, but to me it seemed that nobody really gave much thought to Classic not making it to Blizzcon, like non of the pros were taking that possibility into account.
Previously I said that no way Blizz has enough pull to postpone Classic's military service, but ever since then there wasnt any talk about that, so I sortof reached the conclusion that Classic will attend Blizzcon, he managed to postpone it but there wasnt any big announcement about it? maybe because him missing Blizzcon wasnt announced either, so there wasnt anything to refute/take back, since it was all speculation from the casters? Maybe?
Blizzard didn't have the anything before(top player missed blizzcon before) and won't have anything now. Classic may be the reason why the groups are being played in Korea and they hope he will provide some smiles and TY enters the scene. Who knows. Certainly not the fans, it's possible players know but are obliged to be silent...
The silence isn't funny and the fact they don't even fix the BL range BEFORE the Blizzcon speaks another thing(while being at rant at Blizzard)
On October 07 2019 18:13 Poopi wrote: Am I the only one that is getting a bit pissed about the whole Classic thing? We still don't know if he is going or not, so we don't know:
a) if TY qualifies to BlizzCon allowing 2 korean terrans to go. b) if Maru is in the group of death with Serral, Stats and TIME or not.
That's hella annoying :/. Hopefully we get some news soon.
And you're not a player who's trying to prepare his best for the blizzcon group while not knowing in which group you end.
I dont know, I obviously dont speak Korean, and i even missed some of the interviews so i'm not aware exactly what was being said, but to me it seemed that nobody really gave much thought to Classic not making it to Blizzcon, like non of the pros were taking that possibility into account.
Previously I said that no way Blizz has enough pull to postpone Classic's military service, but ever since then there wasnt any talk about that, so I sortof reached the conclusion that Classic will attend Blizzcon, he managed to postpone it but there wasnt any big announcement about it? maybe because him missing Blizzcon wasnt announced either, so there wasnt anything to refute/take back, since it was all speculation from the casters? Maybe?
Blizzard didn't have the anything before(top player missed blizzcon before) and won't have anything now. Classic may be the reason why the groups are being played in Korea and they hope he will provide some smiles and TY enters the scene. Who knows. Certainly not the fans, it's possible players know but are obliged to be silent...
The silence isn't funny and the fact they don't even fix the BL range BEFORE the Blizzcon speaks another thing(while being at rant at Blizzard)
Don't think the players know anything tangible. In this interview GuMiho gave after the Super Tournament Ro8, he acknowledged he still had a chance to make it if Classic dropped out.
On October 07 2019 18:13 Poopi wrote: Am I the only one that is getting a bit pissed about the whole Classic thing? We still don't know if he is going or not, so we don't know:
a) if TY qualifies to BlizzCon allowing 2 korean terrans to go. b) if Maru is in the group of death with Serral, Stats and TIME or not.
That's hella annoying :/. Hopefully we get some news soon.
And you're not a player who's trying to prepare his best for the blizzcon group while not knowing in which group you end.
I dont know, I obviously dont speak Korean, and i even missed some of the interviews so i'm not aware exactly what was being said, but to me it seemed that nobody really gave much thought to Classic not making it to Blizzcon, like non of the pros were taking that possibility into account.
Previously I said that no way Blizz has enough pull to postpone Classic's military service, but ever since then there wasnt any talk about that, so I sortof reached the conclusion that Classic will attend Blizzcon, he managed to postpone it but there wasnt any big announcement about it? maybe because him missing Blizzcon wasnt announced either, so there wasnt anything to refute/take back, since it was all speculation from the casters? Maybe?
Blizzard didn't have the anything before(top player missed blizzcon before) and won't have anything now. Classic may be the reason why the groups are being played in Korea and they hope he will provide some smiles and TY enters the scene. Who knows. Certainly not the fans, it's possible players know but are obliged to be silent...
The silence isn't funny and the fact they don't even fix the BL range BEFORE the Blizzcon speaks another thing(while being at rant at Blizzard)
I really don't think they give enough of a shit about Classic to make an executive decision based on him. Playing group stage in Korea is probably a way to cut cost, half the player are already there, you can get Tastosis to cast, the studio and the staff are already there and on top of that there will be an audience to cast it. (plus it probably make the GSL guys happy)
I'm guessing Classic dosen't know himself and his stuck in administrative limbo, waiting to know if his visa is approved. If not we should know when the anounce the casters.
On October 07 2019 16:37 Shuffleblade wrote: Dark looked positively unbeatable against TY, he made zerg look OP.
Imagine for a moment if Dark did a proxy hatch that completely failed and lost, then did a ravager all-in that did no damage and lost, then went for a super greedy build and died to hellbats. And then they play game 4 but TY does slightly better in some aspects and ends up winning 4-0.
Did he make Terran look OP?
It does say something when a player like TY who has historically favoured playing macro and going to lategame in all matchups is suddenly trying so many risky strategies
On October 07 2019 16:37 Shuffleblade wrote: Dark looked positively unbeatable against TY, he made zerg look OP.
Imagine for a moment if Dark did a proxy hatch that completely failed and lost, then did a ravager all-in that did no damage and lost, then went for a super greedy build and died to hellbats. And then they play game 4 but TY does slightly better in some aspects and ends up winning 4-0.
Did he make Terran look OP?
It does say something when a player like TY who has historically favoured playing macro and going to lategame in all matchups is suddenly trying so many risky strategies
It's not like this is very sudden. For the better part of 2018 his go-to TvP strats were proxies or pulling the boys. Or doing both in one game. It's a definite sign of how much he dislikes the match-up right now, and of the fact that he thinks he has to catch Dark a bit off-guard to have a chance.
And in the end the closest thing to working was still him playing standard.
On October 07 2019 18:13 Poopi wrote: Am I the only one that is getting a bit pissed about the whole Classic thing? We still don't know if he is going or not, so we don't know:
a) if TY qualifies to BlizzCon allowing 2 korean terrans to go. b) if Maru is in the group of death with Serral, Stats and TIME or not.
That's hella annoying :/. Hopefully we get some news soon.
And you're not a player who's trying to prepare his best for the blizzcon group while not knowing in which group you end.
I dont know, I obviously dont speak Korean, and i even missed some of the interviews so i'm not aware exactly what was being said, but to me it seemed that nobody really gave much thought to Classic not making it to Blizzcon, like non of the pros were taking that possibility into account.
Previously I said that no way Blizz has enough pull to postpone Classic's military service, but ever since then there wasnt any talk about that, so I sortof reached the conclusion that Classic will attend Blizzcon, he managed to postpone it but there wasnt any big announcement about it? maybe because him missing Blizzcon wasnt announced either, so there wasnt anything to refute/take back, since it was all speculation from the casters? Maybe?
Blizzard didn't have the anything before(top player missed blizzcon before) and won't have anything now. Classic may be the reason why the groups are being played in Korea and they hope he will provide some smiles and TY enters the scene. Who knows. Certainly not the fans, it's possible players know but are obliged to be silent...
The silence isn't funny and the fact they don't even fix the BL range BEFORE the Blizzcon speaks another thing(while being at rant at Blizzard)
I am pretty disappointed they didn't at least do a minor balance patch before Blizzcon, fix the bug(?) with the broodlord leash range, and add the cooldown for nydus worm that they're already planning to do, even just those 2 small changes would've been great
On October 07 2019 16:37 Shuffleblade wrote: Dark looked positively unbeatable against TY, he made zerg look OP.
Imagine for a moment if Dark did a proxy hatch that completely failed and lost, then did a ravager all-in that did no damage and lost, then went for a super greedy build and died to hellbats. And then they play game 4 but TY does slightly better in some aspects and ends up winning 4-0.
Did he make Terran look OP?
It does say something when a player like TY who has historically favoured playing macro and going to lategame in all matchups is suddenly trying so many risky strategies
It's not like this is very sudden. For the better part of 2018 his go-to TvP strats were proxies or pulling the boys.
On October 07 2019 16:37 Shuffleblade wrote: Dark looked positively unbeatable against TY, he made zerg look OP.
Imagine for a moment if Dark did a proxy hatch that completely failed and lost, then did a ravager all-in that did no damage and lost, then went for a super greedy build and died to hellbats. And then they play game 4 but TY does slightly better in some aspects and ends up winning 4-0.
Did he make Terran look OP?
It does say something when a player like TY who has historically favoured playing macro and going to lategame in all matchups is suddenly trying so many risky strategies
It's not like this is very sudden. For the better part of 2018 his go-to TvP strats were proxies or pulling the boys.
Hmm wonder why that happened as well
It's almost like I said why right after you cut off the quote.
But on many occasions that style didn't do him any favors.
Holy fuck I don't see anyone that's attending Blizzcon being able to stop Dark. This guy is way too good. I wouldn't be surprised if Dark drops no maps at all and wins Blizzcon. The only player that I can see stopping him would be Maru if his wrist heals. Other than that, there is nobody can stop Dark right now. I mean he beat Soo, who reached so many GSL finals, along with other champions.
It was nice to see confirmation of just how bad fleet beacon units are in high level play vs Terran.
It was nice seeing TY use builds and comps I always hoped to see Terrans use and for Parting and herO to respond so well on the fly but I feel like the series would have been so much better if Carriers, Tempests and Voidrays weren't so bad.
Its a shame because Protoss has no other option vs enough Siege tanks or Lurkers. At this point once I see Protoss making tempests in a somewhat even game I expect Protoss to lose.
It would have been great if I could see Protoss make that transition in a series like herO vs TY and be hyped for the next phase of play. Yamato & EMP are just so good vs anything protoss can make. Hopefully the Patch will be different to what they showed and next years meta will be better. Hoping to see more games like TY vs herO/Parting but with better balance.
Pity seeing the amount of allins people felt like they had to do vs Zerg, especially Stats with 3 cannon rushes over 2 bo5s. Its a bit concerning for blizzcon.
On October 08 2019 06:41 fgonzo wrote: Holy fuck I don't see anyone that's attending Blizzcon being able to stop Dark. This guy is way too good. I wouldn't be surprised if Dark drops no maps at all and wins Blizzcon. The only player that I can see stopping him would be Maru if his wrist heals. Other than that, there is nobody can stop Dark right now. I mean he beat Soo, who reached so many GSL finals, along with other champions.
Hes a beast but...havent examined data but pretty sure Serral has a nasty map score vs him. I would bet on Serral beating him but thats if he makes it passed Stats and Maru.
On October 07 2019 18:13 Poopi wrote: Am I the only one that is getting a bit pissed about the whole Classic thing? We still don't know if he is going or not, so we don't know:
a) if TY qualifies to BlizzCon allowing 2 korean terrans to go. b) if Maru is in the group of death with Serral, Stats and TIME or not.
That's hella annoying :/. Hopefully we get some news soon.
And you're not a player who's trying to prepare his best for the blizzcon group while not knowing in which group you end.
I dont know, I obviously dont speak Korean, and i even missed some of the interviews so i'm not aware exactly what was being said, but to me it seemed that nobody really gave much thought to Classic not making it to Blizzcon, like non of the pros were taking that possibility into account.
Previously I said that no way Blizz has enough pull to postpone Classic's military service, but ever since then there wasnt any talk about that, so I sortof reached the conclusion that Classic will attend Blizzcon, he managed to postpone it but there wasnt any big announcement about it? maybe because him missing Blizzcon wasnt announced either, so there wasnt anything to refute/take back, since it was all speculation from the casters? Maybe?
Blizzard didn't have the anything before(top player missed blizzcon before) and won't have anything now. Classic may be the reason why the groups are being played in Korea and they hope he will provide some smiles and TY enters the scene. Who knows. Certainly not the fans, it's possible players know but are obliged to be silent...
The silence isn't funny and the fact they don't even fix the BL range BEFORE the Blizzcon speaks another thing(while being at rant at Blizzard)
I am pretty disappointed they didn't at least do a minor balance patch before Blizzcon, fix the bug(?) with the broodlord leash range, and add the cooldown for nydus worm that they're already planning to do, even just those 2 small changes would've been great
Yeah that's not how they make changes though - and for good reason. They would need to test it thoroughly before launching it - even something as "minor" as nerfing BL range and nydus cooldown can have a huge impact on the overall balance of the matchups and would most likely require some form of compensation which they'd also need to test - not a realistic timeline to complete before blizzcon on top of the load of changes they are trying to dev for post blizzcon. It is what it is at this point - I'm hoping amazing play from Maru / Stats / Trap will still make for competitive close series with Dark/Serral. You never know too might not be any of those 5 that win - it is a weekender after all! Very hyped.
On October 08 2019 06:41 fgonzo wrote: Holy fuck I don't see anyone that's attending Blizzcon being able to stop Dark. This guy is way too good. I wouldn't be surprised if Dark drops no maps at all and wins Blizzcon. The only player that I can see stopping him would be Maru if his wrist heals. Other than that, there is nobody can stop Dark right now. I mean he beat Soo, who reached so many GSL finals, along with other champions.
He will make it far if he doesn't run into any European zerg. If he does run into 1, his chances of progressing is not high
Dark's zvp and zvt are strong due to his play style but he seems to be weaker in his ZvZ. Reynor and Serral can most probably take him down if they meet at blizzcon. However, I don't see a foreign protoss or Terran who can put up a fight against dark.
On October 07 2019 18:13 Poopi wrote: Am I the only one that is getting a bit pissed about the whole Classic thing? We still don't know if he is going or not, so we don't know:
a) if TY qualifies to BlizzCon allowing 2 korean terrans to go. b) if Maru is in the group of death with Serral, Stats and TIME or not.
That's hella annoying :/. Hopefully we get some news soon.
And you're not a player who's trying to prepare his best for the blizzcon group while not knowing in which group you end.
I dont know, I obviously dont speak Korean, and i even missed some of the interviews so i'm not aware exactly what was being said, but to me it seemed that nobody really gave much thought to Classic not making it to Blizzcon, like non of the pros were taking that possibility into account.
Previously I said that no way Blizz has enough pull to postpone Classic's military service, but ever since then there wasnt any talk about that, so I sortof reached the conclusion that Classic will attend Blizzcon, he managed to postpone it but there wasnt any big announcement about it? maybe because him missing Blizzcon wasnt announced either, so there wasnt anything to refute/take back, since it was all speculation from the casters? Maybe?
Blizzard didn't have the anything before(top player missed blizzcon before) and won't have anything now. Classic may be the reason why the groups are being played in Korea and they hope he will provide some smiles and TY enters the scene. Who knows. Certainly not the fans, it's possible players know but are obliged to be silent...
The silence isn't funny and the fact they don't even fix the BL range BEFORE the Blizzcon speaks another thing(while being at rant at Blizzard)
I am pretty disappointed they didn't at least do a minor balance patch before Blizzcon, fix the bug(?) with the broodlord leash range, and add the cooldown for nydus worm that they're already planning to do, even just those 2 small changes would've been great
Yeah that's not how they make changes though - and for good reason. They would need to test it thoroughly before launching it - even something as "minor" as nerfing BL range and nydus cooldown can have a huge impact on the overall balance of the matchups and would most likely require some form of compensation which they'd also need to test - not a realistic timeline to complete before blizzcon on top of the load of changes they are trying to dev for post blizzcon. It is what it is at this point - I'm hoping amazing play from Maru / Stats / Trap will still make for competitive close series with Dark/Serral. You never know too might not be any of those 5 that win - it is a weekender after all! Very hyped.
Nonsense, they know about the BL range for over a month, it should have been already tested and now the fix should haev been deployed. It didn't happen because they don't care about SC2 enough. IMO.
Edit> To be super annoying - how is possible they "got to know" about the BL range just now? It's been this way from WoL. Shouldn't the BL be tested already? Why we need testing the change of BL when BL apparantely wasn't tested either
I am a terran player so I would like there is Ty in the final 8, but that will not be fair and really frustrating for Classic if he cannot attend Blizzcon after such an impressive year. Hope he will get a special delay again.
On October 08 2019 16:11 bObA wrote: I am a terran player so I would like there is Ty in the final 8, but that will not be fair and really frustrating for Classic if he cannot attend Blizzcon after such an impressive year. Hope he will get a special delay again.
Today I played two games of chess against the only guy who play the game against me in a local pub. I was better, 2-0.
In chess I'm 'bronze', totally regardless of 1000+ hours of watching chess matches between guys who really know what they are doing.
Watching Dark makes me feel 'Bronze' when I put my perception to sensible ratio with my perception about Serral. And I cannot delude that impression no matter what I do.
For everything to be right under the sun, I only pray that Ro4 of Blisscon (pun intented) will be:
Reynor vs Dark Serral vs Rogue
All other ZvZ match ups will be equally ok, tho. It would be good for the game, and for the scene that would happen. And we all would see best quality competition ever.
I'll soon give a pawn per game handicap in a pub matches only for someone playing against me. And I'm bad, really bad, but because I've been watching some best chess online, I can avoid most stupid mistakes.
SC2 Ladder dudes cannot.
In SC2, Its impossible to be racist when you can just freely change your race.
On October 09 2019 03:39 UnLarva wrote: Bullshit analogue.
Today I played two games of chess against the only guy who play the game against me in a local pub. I was better, 2-0.
In chess I'm 'bronze', totally regardless of 1000+ hours of watching chess matches between guys who really know what they are doing.
Watching Dark makes me feel 'Bronze' when I put my perception to sensible ratio with my perception about Serral. And I cannot delude that impression no matter what I do.
For everything to be right under the sun, I only pray that Ro4 of Blisscon (pun intented) will be:
Reynor vs Dark Serral vs Rogue
All other ZvZ match ups will be equally ok, tho. It would be good for the game, and for the scene that would happen. And we all would see best quality competition ever.
I'll soon give a pawn per game handicap in a pub matches only for someone playing against me. And I'm bad, really bad, but because I've been watching some best chess online, I can avoid most stupid mistakes.
SC2 Ladder dudes cannot.
In SC2, Its impossible to be racist when you can just freely change your race.
On October 09 2019 03:39 UnLarva wrote: Bullshit analogue.
Today I played two games of chess against the only guy who play the game against me in a local pub. I was better, 2-0.
In chess I'm 'bronze', totally regardless of 1000+ hours of watching chess matches between guys who really know what they are doing.
Watching Dark makes me feel 'Bronze' when I put my perception to sensible ratio with my perception about Serral. And I cannot delude that impression no matter what I do.
For everything to be right under the sun, I only pray that Ro4 of Blisscon (pun intented) will be:
Reynor vs Dark Serral vs Rogue
All other ZvZ match ups will be equally ok, tho. It would be good for the game, and for the scene that would happen. And we all would see best quality competition ever.
I'll soon give a pawn per game handicap in a pub matches only for someone playing against me. And I'm bad, really bad, but because I've been watching some best chess online, I can avoid most stupid mistakes.
SC2 Ladder dudes cannot.
In SC2, Its impossible to be racist when you can just freely change your race.
So basically the only difference for Maru would be that he gets Heromarine instead of TIME (probably better for him because HM doesn’t know his TvT style as much as TIME) and mini Serral instead of Serral. The group is gonna be insanely difficult either way :/
On October 11 2019 18:53 Poopi wrote: So basically the only difference for Maru would be that he gets Heromarine instead of TIME (probably better for him because HM doesn’t know his TvT style as much as TIME) and mini Serral instead of Serral. The group is gonna be insanely difficult either way :/
It's not, Reynor is good mostly in ZvZ, he's not that good in TvZ so this group would be way easier for both Maru and Stats.
On October 11 2019 18:53 Poopi wrote: So basically the only difference for Maru would be that he gets Heromarine instead of TIME (probably better for him because HM doesn’t know his TvT style as much as TIME) and mini Serral instead of Serral. The group is gonna be insanely difficult either way :/
It's not, Reynor is good mostly in ZvZ, he's not that good in TvZ so this group would be way easier for both Maru and Stats.
I'm not too sure about that. Sure he lost to Special convincingly but then he beat him convincingly, so him losing to Maru at WSG doesn't make him bad per se. He beat relatively easily Clem and MarineLord yesterday, who practiced hard for him and are very skilled terrans at the moment (the same MarineLord that almost beat Serral). So I maintain, it's still a very hard group for Maru ; for Stats it depends on if he beats Maru or not: if he beats Maru it's not that bad if he loses to Reynor, otherwise it's getting dangerous. HM should have the short end of the stick here.
Since it's in Korea though I'd say Stats/Maru are still slightly favored, thankfully
On October 11 2019 18:53 Poopi wrote: So basically the only difference for Maru would be that he gets Heromarine instead of TIME (probably better for him because HM doesn’t know his TvT style as much as TIME) and mini Serral instead of Serral. The group is gonna be insanely difficult either way :/
Neither HeroM or Time are a match for Maru in TvT. Only TY and INno can say they are
And the difference between Reynor and Serral is astronomical when it comes to not ZvZ (if Serral's in form there's a massive difference even in ZvZ as well).
Reynor beating Clem and Marinelord isn't much when those guys are barely relevant even in the foreign terran scene.
On October 11 2019 18:53 Poopi wrote: So basically the only difference for Maru would be that he gets Heromarine instead of TIME (probably better for him because HM doesn’t know his TvT style as much as TIME) and mini Serral instead of Serral. The group is gonna be insanely difficult either way :/
It's not, Reynor is good mostly in ZvZ, he's not that good in TvZ so this group would be way easier for both Maru and Stats.
I'm not too sure about that. Sure he lost to Special convincingly but then he beat him convincingly, so him losing to Maru at WSG doesn't make him bad per se. He beat relatively easily Clem and MarineLord yesterday, who practiced hard for him and are very skilled terrans at the moment (the same MarineLord that almost beat Serral). So I maintain, it's still a very hard group for Maru ; for Stats it depends on if he beats Maru or not: if he beats Maru it's not that bad if he loses to Reynor, otherwise it's getting dangerous. HM should have the short end of the stick here.
Since it's in Korea though I'd say Stats/Maru are still slightly favored, thankfully
No Reynor result indicates otherwise, he has issues with foreign Protoss/Terran, we're talking about Maru and Stats. It's up to them to screw it up and lose the Reynor.
On October 11 2019 18:53 Poopi wrote: So basically the only difference for Maru would be that he gets Heromarine instead of TIME (probably better for him because HM doesn’t know his TvT style as much as TIME) and mini Serral instead of Serral. The group is gonna be insanely difficult either way :/
Neither HeroM or Time are a match for Maru in TvT. Only TY and INno can say they are
Inno's TvT isn't even that great, he just knows 50% of beating Maru is in scouting the proxy rax.
On October 11 2019 18:53 Poopi wrote: So basically the only difference for Maru would be that he gets Heromarine instead of TIME (probably better for him because HM doesn’t know his TvT style as much as TIME) and mini Serral instead of Serral. The group is gonna be insanely difficult either way :/
It's not, Reynor is good mostly in ZvZ, he's not that good in TvZ so this group would be way easier for both Maru and Stats.
I'm not too sure about that. Sure he lost to Special convincingly but then he beat him convincingly, so him losing to Maru at WSG doesn't make him bad per se. He beat relatively easily Clem and MarineLord yesterday, who practiced hard for him and are very skilled terrans at the moment (the same MarineLord that almost beat Serral). So I maintain, it's still a very hard group for Maru ; for Stats it depends on if he beats Maru or not: if he beats Maru it's not that bad if he loses to Reynor, otherwise it's getting dangerous. HM should have the short end of the stick here.
Since it's in Korea though I'd say Stats/Maru are still slightly favored, thankfully
No Reynor result indicates otherwise, he has issues with foreign Protoss/Terran, we're talking about Maru and Stats. It's up to them to screw it up and lose the Reynor.
In ZvP (http://aligulac.com/players/5414/results/?after=&before=&event=&race=p&country=all&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op=) he looks a bit more shaky but still able to beat top protoss.
So I maintain Maru / Stats are only slightly favored against Reynor, and it would not be that surprising to see them lose to him in bo5. I'd gladly be proven wrong in BlizzCon with Maru beating him hard but I think it won't be as easy as in WCG.
On October 11 2019 18:53 Poopi wrote: So basically the only difference for Maru would be that he gets Heromarine instead of TIME (probably better for him because HM doesn’t know his TvT style as much as TIME) and mini Serral instead of Serral. The group is gonna be insanely difficult either way :/
Neither HeroM or Time are a match for Maru in TvT. Only TY and INno can say they are
Inno's TvT isn't even that great, he just knows 50% of beating Maru is in scouting the proxy rax.
His pushes have always worked out well against Maru. Despite Maru being a much better TvT player from a technical perspective.
On October 11 2019 18:53 Poopi wrote: So basically the only difference for Maru would be that he gets Heromarine instead of TIME (probably better for him because HM doesn’t know his TvT style as much as TIME) and mini Serral instead of Serral. The group is gonna be insanely difficult either way :/
Neither HeroM or Time are a match for Maru in TvT. Only TY and INno can say they are
Inno's TvT isn't even that great, he just knows 50% of beating Maru is in scouting the proxy rax.
His pushes have always worked out well against Maru. Despite Maru being a much better TvT player from a technical perspective.
I think Inno has a much better fundamental grasp of what is good and what isn't in TvT than Maru. So even though his execution and mechanics aren't what they used to be he can take wins against Maru who is much better at everything else in the game.
On October 11 2019 18:53 Poopi wrote: So basically the only difference for Maru would be that he gets Heromarine instead of TIME (probably better for him because HM doesn’t know his TvT style as much as TIME) and mini Serral instead of Serral. The group is gonna be insanely difficult either way :/
It's not, Reynor is good mostly in ZvZ, he's not that good in TvZ so this group would be way easier for both Maru and Stats.
I'm not too sure about that. Sure he lost to Special convincingly but then he beat him convincingly, so him losing to Maru at WSG doesn't make him bad per se. He beat relatively easily Clem and MarineLord yesterday, who practiced hard for him and are very skilled terrans at the moment (the same MarineLord that almost beat Serral). So I maintain, it's still a very hard group for Maru ; for Stats it depends on if he beats Maru or not: if he beats Maru it's not that bad if he loses to Reynor, otherwise it's getting dangerous. HM should have the short end of the stick here.
Since it's in Korea though I'd say Stats/Maru are still slightly favored, thankfully
No Reynor result indicates otherwise, he has issues with foreign Protoss/Terran, we're talking about Maru and Stats. It's up to them to screw it up and lose the Reynor.
In ZvP (http://aligulac.com/players/5414/results/?after=&before=&event=&race=p&country=all&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op=) he looks a bit more shaky but still able to beat top protoss.
So I maintain Maru / Stats are only slightly favored against Reynor, and it would not be that surprising to see them lose to him in bo5. I'd gladly be proven wrong in BlizzCon with Maru beating him hard but I think it won't be as easy as in WCG.
Lol Stats maybe becoz the current PvZ but Maru is only slight favor against Reynor, especially how he 4-0 Reynor effortlessly not long ago? You must be fun at party.
On October 11 2019 18:53 Poopi wrote: So basically the only difference for Maru would be that he gets Heromarine instead of TIME (probably better for him because HM doesn’t know his TvT style as much as TIME) and mini Serral instead of Serral. The group is gonna be insanely difficult either way :/
It's not, Reynor is good mostly in ZvZ, he's not that good in TvZ so this group would be way easier for both Maru and Stats.
I'm not too sure about that. Sure he lost to Special convincingly but then he beat him convincingly, so him losing to Maru at WSG doesn't make him bad per se. He beat relatively easily Clem and MarineLord yesterday, who practiced hard for him and are very skilled terrans at the moment (the same MarineLord that almost beat Serral). So I maintain, it's still a very hard group for Maru ; for Stats it depends on if he beats Maru or not: if he beats Maru it's not that bad if he loses to Reynor, otherwise it's getting dangerous. HM should have the short end of the stick here.
Since it's in Korea though I'd say Stats/Maru are still slightly favored, thankfully
No Reynor result indicates otherwise, he has issues with foreign Protoss/Terran, we're talking about Maru and Stats. It's up to them to screw it up and lose the Reynor.
In ZvP (http://aligulac.com/players/5414/results/?after=&before=&event=&race=p&country=all&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op=) he looks a bit more shaky but still able to beat top protoss.
So I maintain Maru / Stats are only slightly favored against Reynor, and it would not be that surprising to see them lose to him in bo5. I'd gladly be proven wrong in BlizzCon with Maru beating him hard but I think it won't be as easy as in WCG.
Lol what are you saying...Maru crushed Reynor the last time they met. Maru is probably still the best at tvz in spite of him not being in his best of form. Only ones I see beating Maru in tvz are rogue, Serral and dark.
Clem or Marinelord is at best a tier 2 Korean Terran level, I am not sure whether they are better than bunny or dream. Beating them does not mean you can match the level of Maru. Reynor just got destroyed by Maru in TvZ, 4:0.
On October 11 2019 18:53 Poopi wrote: So basically the only difference for Maru would be that he gets Heromarine instead of TIME (probably better for him because HM doesn’t know his TvT style as much as TIME) and mini Serral instead of Serral. The group is gonna be insanely difficult either way :/
It's not, Reynor is good mostly in ZvZ, he's not that good in TvZ so this group would be way easier for both Maru and Stats.
I'm not too sure about that. Sure he lost to Special convincingly but then he beat him convincingly, so him losing to Maru at WSG doesn't make him bad per se. He beat relatively easily Clem and MarineLord yesterday, who practiced hard for him and are very skilled terrans at the moment (the same MarineLord that almost beat Serral). So I maintain, it's still a very hard group for Maru ; for Stats it depends on if he beats Maru or not: if he beats Maru it's not that bad if he loses to Reynor, otherwise it's getting dangerous. HM should have the short end of the stick here.
Since it's in Korea though I'd say Stats/Maru are still slightly favored, thankfully
Is it just me or is this way too late to be deciding who is going to Blizzcon? It’s making the whole thing look silly and unorganized that it’s in 10 days and we still don’t know the groups
On October 15 2019 01:37 TentativePanda wrote: Is it just me or is this way too late to be deciding who is going to Blizzcon? It’s making the whole thing look silly and unorganized that it’s in 10 days and we still don’t know the groups
When was the last time this year Blizzard responded quickly in SC2? The last balance problem took them several months. So expect their announcement about Classic sometime around January
EPT
