What I don't understand is: why doesn't Blizzard just hire and organize a committee consisting of English-speaking pro players to work on balancing the game, instead of relying on some TL randos who are more opinionated than experienced? I'd much rather have Serral, Neeb, and Bunny come together to brainstorm ideas in private, and submit them to Blizzard's balance team, than have the people in this thread influence the state of the game. Democracy means a bunch of idiots get to decide the direction of their community. Stop trying to democratize SC2. Let the most competent people handle the all-important task of balancing the game.

dalecooper

56 Posts

October 04 2019 04:10 GMT

#84

I just want to add that these changes are nothing. We will have the same problems in 2020. If we stomp around like this we only make it worse. We wander the maze. Liberator and disruptor, they don't fit the starcraft aesthetic. We need to delete them. And we need to make infestors like ravens. As a support unit. You just can't neuralize the whole fcking mothership or battlecruiser. It's dumb. You just can't kill the whole air protoss/terran army with free units. It's nonsense.

ilikeredheads

Canada1995 Posts

October 04 2019 04:13 GMT

#85

I simply can't understand why they refuse to increase infestor supply to 3. No one wants to see a group of two dozens infestors spamming spells.

BelialStarcraft

9 Posts

October 04 2019 04:44 GMT

#86

I don't think the game is imbalanced as people make it out to be and I like the direction they are going with things.

I don't want to see broodlord leash range reduced though, it's a fun micro trick. If it's OP that's fine, but I wish they wouldn't get rid of a neat micro ability.

Don't like the battlecruiser nerfs either. Cool unit abilities and micro tricks should stay in the game, they are fun. I don't mind the cooldown increase but not a fan of the 1 second vulnerability.

brickrd

United States4894 Posts

October 04 2019 04:46 GMT

#87

these threads are the same shit every single time, gold leaguers theorycrafting patches that aren't even past R&D and people repeating the same inaccurate claims like "blizzard doesn't talk to pro players about balance" lol what's the point

MockHamill

Sweden1798 Posts

October 04 2019 04:59 GMT

#88

Too many changes making the result almost impossible to predict. Bettter to just:

1. Increase Infestor supply to 3.
2. Fix Broodlord range bug.
3. Make Nydus load and unload slower.

The only thing needed is a slight nerf to Zerg late game and a slight nerf to Nydus.

tigon_ridge

482 Posts

October 04 2019 05:03 GMT

#89

On October 04 2019 13:59 MockHamill wrote:
Too many changes making the result almost impossible to predict. Bettter to just:

1. Increase Infestor supply to 3.
2. Fix Broodlord range bug.
3. Make Nydus load and unload slower.

They're trying to drastically change the game after each Blizzcon, probably to give newer players a chance to catch up with more experienced players. I don't personally like this approach, but it is what it is.

tigon_ridge

482 Posts

October 04 2019 05:08 GMT

#90

On October 04 2019 13:46 brickrd wrote:
these threads are the same shit every single time, gold leaguers theorycrafting patches that aren't even past R&D and people repeating the same inaccurate claims like "blizzard doesn't talk to pro players about balance" lol what's the point

Talking to them isn't enough, since pros don't necessarily agree on many things. It needs to be more direct; Blizz needs to pay some high-level pros to come together in several (virtual) conferences to hammer out practical ideas. This is the most efficient approach.

insitelol

845 Posts

October 04 2019 05:31 GMT

#91

God, i knew they are clueless, but this, this is beyond any reason. What these changes are? Some random stuff w/o any context and no connection to the meta. No, really, this is not funny. Fire them somebody.

GreasedUpDeafGuy

United States398 Posts

October 04 2019 06:13 GMT

#92

Many of these deserve testing except one glaring issue

"Removed the Research Neural Parasite upgrade. Infestors now come with Neural Parasite by default."

Are you trying to make literally every game ZvZ rushing to infestors or 12 pooling, cause thats how you do it

Xamo

Spain886 Posts

October 04 2019 06:13 GMT

#93

So many little changes... I like the amount of changes but they are all so small that the meta might not change too much, except for late game. I'd ike to see more meta-shifting changes.
At first glance, T is buffed, Z is nerfed, P is reckt'd. Nothing new...

Qikz

United Kingdom12047 Posts

October 04 2019 06:28 GMT

#94

On October 04 2019 11:32 WenHe wrote:
So, the infested Terran damage is 24, the range is 12, and the attack period is 0.95.
And the Thor damage is 25, the range is 11, and the attack period is 0.9.
Why not change the "Infested Terran" to "Infested Thor"?

I mean, why the hell are they buffing infested terrans to begin with. It's not eeven needed.

KeithL

9 Posts

October 04 2019 06:42 GMT

#95

it seems that blizzard don't know how to balance so they just do some random buff and debuff, then they will have ideas about how to adjust the new system between 3 races. It's really irresponsible and funny.

ingensviator

7 Posts

October 04 2019 06:51 GMT

#96

Actually I feel the changes is nice for every race.
Only issue is why observer speed nerf? They buff the overlord speed because what then?

By I wish if they buff lurker range, Disruptor can be buffed too, because I like the interaction between lurkers and Disruptor. Now it favors lurker too much.

Solar424

United States4001 Posts

October 04 2019 07:26 GMT

#97

Whiners aren't going to be satisfied until Infestors are removed from the game entirely

i.beremliyski

1 Post

October 04 2019 07:26 GMT

#98

Blizzard please, listen to Beastyqt. Remove zerg changes they are so bad, you must re-work the infestors or remove totaly

tigon_ridge

482 Posts

October 04 2019 07:28 GMT

#99

On October 04 2019 15:13 Xamo wrote:
So many little changes... I like the amount of changes but they are all so small that the meta might not change too much, except for late game. I'd ike to see more meta-shifting changes.
At first glance, T is buffed, Z is nerfed, P is reckt'd. Nothing new...

I only agree with the last sentence, although I think Z will be nerfed much harder than P, according to these proposals. I think this will change the meta plenty. Less frequency of BC opener, and nydus spammage. Higher frequency of blue flame harassment. Less BL/Inf lategame, and more lurker/Inf lategame.

The biggest bitching of this year by far has been zerg lategame, and these nerfs ARE definitely nerfs. -1 range on neural is very substantial, considering how vulnerable infestors were when they didn't have the 9 range. Neural was much less often used. This is 100% a lategame nerf. Allowing it to be used for midgame isn't such a big deal, considering: how vulnerable it now makes the infestor; the inf already is expensive; and it takes a little while to build up energy for a neural.

The IT nerf is in fact a goddamn nerf. With pathogen gland, inf could upon hatching cast 3 ITs. Now, only 1. Infestors that have already depleted most of their energy bank will now have to wait longer to be at all useful, and the few IT that they can spawn may quickly get killed, perhaps even before they spawn. A 90 energy inf currently can cast 3 ITs, but in the future only 1. The implication of this is that, on average, a group of infestors will not be able to use as high a proportion of their energy on ITs at a given time as they can currently; also, EMPs will hurt infestors' ability to cast ITs more than before. This is also a big deal when the zerg decides to spam them in a massive engagement. But for the sake of argument, let's say there are infestors with max (200) energy and can spam 4 ITs per inf; a storm/disruption/liberator may now potentially kill twice as much energy worth of spellcast unit. Anti-light/bio units like blue-flame hellions, ghosts, archons, colossus, and adept, and generally high-dps units like tanks and marines, can more quickly kill ITs, because the amount of HP per energy spent will have been reduced by effectively 25%. Not to mention: the IT cocoon's HP will be practically unchanged, which huuugely buffs (almost doubles) the value of killing them before they hatch.

All in all, if you combine these zerg nerfs with the viking buff, lategame Z will be significant weaker than it is now. If anything, it may completely obliterate the lategame advantage zerg now enjoys.

Heartland

Sweden24604 Posts

October 04 2019 07:57 GMT

#100

On October 04 2019 13:02 tigon_ridge wrote:
What I don't understand is: why doesn't Blizzard just hire and organize a committee consisting of English-speaking pro players to work on balancing the game, instead of relying on some TL randos who are more opinionated than experienced? I'd much rather have Serral, Neeb, and Bunny come together to brainstorm ideas in private, and submit them to Blizzard's balance team, than have the people in this thread influence the state of the game. Democracy means a bunch of idiots get to decide the direction of their community. Stop trying to democratize SC2. Let the most competent people handle the all-important task of balancing the game.

Because pro's are just as prone to balance whining and bad game design as the rest of us. There are some form of meetings that Blizzard hosts where they gather a bunch of pros to discuss balance, though.