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Honestly, decent changes, I don't understand why people are complaining. Apart from the infestor, which will definitely help Protoss but Terran doesn't have the AoE to benefit from the change. I think the infestor changes on a whole are a bit misguided.
I think all the fusion core changes are really good and a long time coming. Observer speed buff should've never gone through so it's a minor, but good revert. With hallucination being as good as it is now, Protoss doesn't need that fast observer so much.
A lot of gating through upgrades is kinda weird and clunky, but it's actually not a terrible idea if it works.
Anyone complaining about the adept upgrade is dumb, who the hell is going to get both upgrades for an adept all-in, and pre-new upgrade they basically function the exact same. If you're losing to double upgraded adept all ins, something is wrong with your play. Likewise, the charge change seems decent as long as it doesn't completely ruin Protoss against timings. Chargelots gain so much defensive and offensive power in the midgame, it'd be nice if their power spike is smoother, allowing Terran a bit more freedom.
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Northern Ireland25047 Posts
Not sure how I feel about all the changes.
In their totality they’re relatively radical changes though, if nothing else it does seem the dev team are still actively involved in such matters, which is probably a good sign if nothing else.
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On October 04 2019 07:42 travis wrote:
I feel like this patch "nerfs" zerg in small irrelevant ways, and then "rebalances" protoss in ways that will drastically nerf them.
Also those lurker changes look hilariously extreme to me. And do lurkers really need to be able to get 1 more range?
lurkers are useless in live apart from zvz, they need to be changed.
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To be honest its the first time since DK that changes make sense, time for terrans of the world to cry and blizzard to back down.
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On October 04 2019 07:50 91matt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2019 07:42 travis wrote:
I feel like this patch "nerfs" zerg in small irrelevant ways, and then "rebalances" protoss in ways that will drastically nerf them.
Also those lurker changes look hilariously extreme to me. And do lurkers really need to be able to get 1 more range? lurkers are useless in live apart from zvz, they need to be changed.
They're quite strong against Protoss. You just don't see them as often recently since hydras aren't as popular as before and going straight to Broodlord/Infestor is even better.
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On October 04 2019 07:11 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2019 06:59 spectreusmc wrote:
I don't see how they think they've weakened the infestor at all... If the Zerg is on the defensive, Protoss can engage, force the Zerg to pop infested terrans, then retreat. The problem is you'd have to do that half a dozen times and if you're on the defensive, you're even more screwed because Storm is even less effective against them than previously.
How is storm less effective? Infested terrans are so slow that they'll eat the whole storm and die like before, but now killing the same area's worth of infested terran is worth twice as much infestor energy.
Seems like a pretty huge buff for protoss to me.
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I like the idea of the changes that they're going for this time. It's cool to see them try to improve that sort of super late game dynamic with more late game upgrades.
The second adept upgrade looks a bit weak though, 20 shield doesn't really seem like a lot especially when adept upgrades are mostly used for timings.
It would be cool to see the stalker get an upgrade, maybe even something like Phase Reactor in the co-op where the ability would restore some shields after they blink, to increase their late game anti-air viability (not the cloaking part though cause that would OP)
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Apparantly people dont really like some of these changes but I am loving it. I think I agreed with like every change they suggested. I kept expecting there to be some weird misplaced changes near the end but the good stuff just kept coming.
Love the terran changes. Helion change makes sense, would be lovely if there are possibly blue flame openers. Thor changes sounds great - they do seem a little unresponsive. Viking buff is nice and I think its something terran lategame needs. Liberator range changes are fine, especially combined with brood/infestor/tempest changes. I like nerfing battlecruisers, the bc style just felt boring to me.
Zerg changes are a bit mixed. The infestor changes seem really risky and I'd prefer the unit being used as little as possible. But its hard to tell how it will work out. Love the lurker buff, I think lurkers are a cool and fun unit. Love the broodlord nerf, the broodlord range made it impossible to ever take a fight with the zerg deathball which led to boring games. Nydus changes seem necessary. Personally I think it'd be more fun if zerg lategame focussed on ultras and lurkers instead of broodlord infestor, so I mostly like these changes. I'd prefer buffing the ultras and turning the broodlords into more of a siege unit that you get to secure a win rather than a core deathball unit. But hey, these are steps in the right direction.
For protoss I think a midgame nerf to zealots is reasonable. The adept upgrade is fine to me, although lategame adepts shading around is definitely going to be annoying as hell. It seems good to buff a unit's lategame strength when it is basically only used in all ins otherwise. Tempest range nerf is good given the broodlord, infestor and liberator nerfs. The air vs air fights should stay the same, but now maybe ground armies have some sort of chance. Other small changes are fine with me too.
Overall I like the direction of this patch. New infestors could be scary but it might also be weaker, we'll have to wait and see. Otherwise Im loving it.
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I still feel like queens are too good. You should max out on queens based on how many bases you have. Then adjust the game from there.
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I think these are mostly quite smart and well reasoned changes.
A couple of things seem a bit off and the protoss changes overall are a bit underwhelming.
I agree with people voicing amazement on the weird speed changes, and the viking change seems a bit crazy too but the infested terran changes and the adept and tempest changes make senses.
I wonder a bit about the voidrays... but since protoss is generally lacking in mobility and speed this might make sense somehow.
But what I really think should be done in addition:
- the first charge upgrade needs to be cheaper and faster, so that zealots can be become semi useful sooner
- zerg cocoons should take additional damage (similar to warping in units) instead of having extra armor. Cocoons from larvae might be exempt, but if you find broodlords, banes or ravagers morphing you should be awarded by easily killing them instaed of almost killing them and having full HP units jump out and laugh in your face.
Lastly I think that the proposed warpin change from the previous patch is still a good idea (slow warpprism warpin), but only if balanced by stronger gateway units, especially a higher dps/lower hp stalker, and/or greater dps sentry.
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On October 04 2019 07:50 91matt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2019 07:42 travis wrote:
I feel like this patch "nerfs" zerg in small irrelevant ways, and then "rebalances" protoss in ways that will drastically nerf them.
Also those lurker changes look hilariously extreme to me. And do lurkers really need to be able to get 1 more range? lurkers are useless in live apart from zvz, they need to be changed.
Unless things have changed significantly, Lurkers hard counter their Protoss counter in Immortals if there are enough Lurkers (and there pretty much always are unless the Protoss is massively ahead). Giving them more range makes it even harder to Storm them or to engage without Tempests.
On October 04 2019 08:00 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2019 07:11 Boggyb wrote:On October 04 2019 06:59 spectreusmc wrote:
I don't see how they think they've weakened the infestor at all... If the Zerg is on the defensive, Protoss can engage, force the Zerg to pop infested terrans, then retreat. The problem is you'd have to do that half a dozen times and if you're on the defensive, you're even more screwed because Storm is even less effective against them than previously. How is storm less effective? Infested terrans are so slow that they'll eat the whole storm and die like before, but now killing the same area's worth of infested terran is worth twice as much infestor energy. Seems like a pretty huge buff for protoss to me.
Storm is less effective because it takes longer to kill them. Storming and retreating only works if you can run from a fight. It does you no good if an important Nexus is under attack.
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Most changes at least make sense.
Nerf queens please and I will be happy. Banshees/Libs can do close to nothing now against zerg, with BC nerf it's a problem.
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Love the lurker buff, love the BC nerf also a fan of the Viking buff. Would like to see bigger infestor and bl nerfs.
Would like to see toss get more changes especially targeted at pvz.
I think it would be fine for nydus upgrade to require lair not hive tech. Would like to see that tried. I would have liked to see supply changes to the tempest instead if range, I think if tempests were a bigger supply investment it would be fine for them to have the same range they now have since they would be weeker in direct engagements as a result.
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On October 04 2019 08:44 washikie wrote:
I would have liked to see supply changes to the tempest instead if range, I think if tempests were a bigger supply investment it would be fine for them to have the same range they now have since they would be weeker in direct engagements as a result.
Tempests are really bad in direct engagements currently...
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Protoss is gonna be really bad after this imo, maybe a bit better vs Zerg, but they'll have a hard time vs early terran pushes.
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R.I.P Protoss 2019, time to race switch lol
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If the game is getting patched, that means we're getting WCS 2020 right?
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On October 04 2019 08:49 serendipitous wrote:
Protoss is gonna be really bad after this imo, maybe a bit better vs Zerg, but they'll have a hard time vs early terran pushes.
I like the changes, they add more dept to tech desicions of both terran and protoss and I like that they seem to encourage using ground mech vs protoss.
I do agree that 2 base bio pushes would be strong but hopefully that means they revert the stim buff, wich IMO was a bad change that only streamlined terran even more.
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Hey, the link of official page is broken. You pasted it twice.
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On October 04 2019 08:58 geokilla wrote:
If the game is getting patched, that means we're getting WCS 2020 right?
No. They were patching WC3 for years and I don't think had any involvement in the pro scene there.
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