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On October 04 2019 08:48 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2019 08:44 washikie wrote:
I would have liked to see supply changes to the tempest instead if range, I think if tempests were a bigger supply investment it would be fine for them to have the same range they now have since they would be weeker in direct engagements as a result. Tempests are really bad in direct engagements currently...
well kind of, Outside of the BC telipporting on top of them strat, I dont think they are restricted enough. It would be nice if we can reach a happy medium with The tempest were it performs its role of dealing with siege units and massive air units, while not being good enough that you want to make a whole lot of them. I think a supply nerf serves this better than a range reduction, keeps the utility of the unit but lets your opponent pounce on your army if you built more of them than you needed to counter what your opponent is up to.
Although I think the direction bliz is going to decrease the range of all ranged siege units is an alright approach, better than what we have now.
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On October 04 2019 08:07 Jerom wrote:
Zerg changes are a bit mixed. The infestor changes seem really risky and I'd prefer the unit being used as little as possible. But its hard to tell how it will work out. Love the lurker buff, I think lurkers are a cool and fun unit. Love the broodlord nerf, the broodlord range made it impossible to ever take a fight with the zerg deathball which led to boring games. Nydus changes seem necessary. Personally I think it'd be more fun if zerg lategame focussed on ultras and lurkers instead of broodlord infestor, so I mostly like these changes. I'd prefer buffing the ultras and turning the broodlords into more of a siege unit that you get to secure a win rather than a core deathball unit. But hey, these are steps in the right direction.
Overall I like the direction of this patch. New infestors could be scary but it might also be weaker, we'll have to wait and see. Otherwise Im loving it.
I agree I would love it if bliz would keep zerg late game strong (becuase with zergs design it needs to be) but make it less about the bl infestor death ball and more about leveraging your bank, nydus network and powerful ground based options to crush your opponent.
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I agree with others who have said too many abilities are becoming upgrades. Like, really, an upgrade to give adepts 20 more shields? It's almost self-parody.
I was hoping for some radical re-designs, maybe to the immortal, infestor, etc.
Some of this stuff seems good but a lot of it doesn't seem to hit the core problems. Feels more like over-complicating and cluttering up the game. We'll see, though.
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Dissapointed, this is meant to be the biggest patch of the year (what I was waiting for to help the game get out of its current bad game state). Zerg are currently dominant and Protoss don't look like they are set up to compete.
Protoss don't get anything that would help. Zerg look like they will be able to keep winning with the same stuff. Terran get some nice buffs and QOL stuff.
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INFESTOR
Infested Terran energy cost increased from 25 to 50.
Infested Terran health increased from 50 to 75.
Infested Swarm Egg health increased from 70 to 75.
The Infested Terran’s Gauss Rifle damage increased from 6 to 12.
The Infested Terran’s Infested Rockets damage increased from 14 to 24.
Infested Rockets now gain +2 per ranged weapon upgrade, up from +1.
Infested Rockets attack period decreased from 1.14 to 0.95.
We’d like to redesign the Infested Terran ability with the following goals in mind: First, to make each Infested Terran feel like more of a commitment. Secondly, we want to provide players with more clear counters-play options against Infested Terrans.
Our proposal is a more expensive and powerful Infested Terran that is still vulnerable to key Terran and Protoss units and abilities. With this redesign, while Infested Terrans will have higher damage density, they’ll be more vulnerable to Psionic Storm, Disruptors, and Liberators.
I don't see how this addresses the IT problem at all. they claim this will make each IT more of a commitment, but nothing will change. they will be spammed from 100 % to 0 energy the same way they are now; now they are just fewer and stronger. i am very disappointed to see them make this arbitrary change rather than changing the design of the infestor.
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What the.......Even observer gets nerfed?
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On October 04 2019 09:04 washikie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2019 08:48 Boggyb wrote:On October 04 2019 08:44 washikie wrote:
I would have liked to see supply changes to the tempest instead if range, I think if tempests were a bigger supply investment it would be fine for them to have the same range they now have since they would be weeker in direct engagements as a result. Tempests are really bad in direct engagements currently... well kind of, Outside of the BC telipporting on top of them strat, I dont think they are restricted enough. It would be nice if we can reach a happy medium with The tempest were it performs its role of dealing with siege units and massive air units, while not being good enough that you want to make a whole lot of them. I think a supply nerf serves this better than a range reduction, keeps the utility of the unit but lets your opponent pounce on your army if you built more of them than you needed to counter what your opponent is up to. Although I think the direction bliz is going to decrease the range of all ranged siege units is an alright approach, better than what we have now.
Nobody wants to make a lot of Tempests. People make a lot of Tempests because you need 600 of them to do anything.
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That infestor change is a buff btw not a nerf I hope you realize that, I don't think zergs care if it costs 50 energy when they have mass infestor in the late game already and since you compensate the energy cost increase with better infested terrans hardly anything is gonna change in super later game and you might actually make infested terran spam even stronger then before as a result of the insane stats on infested terrans. I have to say I find it quite shocking to see this even posted as a suggestion.
The infestor is just to strong and Zergs should be forced to use their big banks in long games not fight with free units making it near impossible to trade well even with better engagements.
You have Protoss players in the complete opposite side of the spectrum where every unit is as precious as gold and Zerg are throwing around free units that are really strong. Terrans are also in similar situation altough not as bad as protoss.
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The comment section is why this game will die, angry keyboard warriors are impossible to satisfy. RIP
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I think protoss does need to be buffed a bit more but I like a lot of these changes to be honest.
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There are so many upgrades on the twilight council that it might actually be worth it to open double twilight council. What universe am I in?
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I like many of the changes but it seems for protoss, there are too many upgrades already?
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On October 04 2019 10:11 StasisField wrote:
There are so many upgrades on the twilight council that it might actually be worth it to open double twilight council. What universe am I in?
At this rate they could remove the forge, add the forge upgrades to twilight council and make cannons require twilight to appease the haters of cannon rush.
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On October 04 2019 08:32 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2019 07:50 91matt wrote:On October 04 2019 07:42 travis wrote:
I feel like this patch "nerfs" zerg in small irrelevant ways, and then "rebalances" protoss in ways that will drastically nerf them.
Also those lurker changes look hilariously extreme to me. And do lurkers really need to be able to get 1 more range? lurkers are useless in live apart from zvz, they need to be changed. Unless things have changed significantly, Lurkers hard counter their Protoss counter in Immortals if there are enough Lurkers (and there pretty much always are unless the Protoss is massively ahead). Giving them more range makes it even harder to Storm them or to engage without Tempests. Show nested quote +On October 04 2019 08:00 Athenau wrote:On October 04 2019 07:11 Boggyb wrote:On October 04 2019 06:59 spectreusmc wrote:
I don't see how they think they've weakened the infestor at all... If the Zerg is on the defensive, Protoss can engage, force the Zerg to pop infested terrans, then retreat. The problem is you'd have to do that half a dozen times and if you're on the defensive, you're even more screwed because Storm is even less effective against them than previously. How is storm less effective? Infested terrans are so slow that they'll eat the whole storm and die like before, but now killing the same area's worth of infested terran is worth twice as much infestor energy. Seems like a pretty huge buff for protoss to me. Storm is less effective because it takes longer to kill them. Storming and retreating only works if you can run from a fight. It does you no good if an important Nexus is under attack.
Storm taking 1.79 seconds vs 2.68 seconds to kill an IT is not significant, and that goes double when it comes to storming eggs.
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-If you want the mothership to feel less like a flying pile of trash, why not just make it immune to abduct/neural?
-I can't properly envision the nydus changes without trying it out... but the effect I'd like to see is not feeling like the nydus spam is costing us equally to attempt/defend until it costs me everything the one time I don't react perfectly. I don't know how balanced it is, but it's just not fun.
-I'd be down to try a more lurker centered matchup. I'm not very good against it, but maybe it's interesting at least?
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what were they thinking? this is embarrassing
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Lol infestor change is a mess. Buffing infested terrans really?
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So, the infested Terran damage is 24, the range is 12, and the attack period is 0.95.
And the Thor damage is 25, the range is 11, and the attack period is 0.9.
Why not change the "Infested Terran" to "Infested Thor"?
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Disgusting and careless. Completely. I start hating balance team and it's my common sense. Infestor change... it's a one big mess. More upgrades. Welcome on board. You need to upgrade everything. Literally you need to upgrade everything. UpgradeCraft II.
Just read the comment about the reason why "Infernal Pre-Igniter" research cost must be decreased from 150/150 to 100/100. It's not even related to the topic. It's not even related to current issues that we have today. And STILL, you need to research it from tech lab.
They change thors every 6 months. Every 6 months. Cyclone was changed 9 times already. And now we need to change thor again. Thor is clumsy as hell. And he has only 1 armor. 6 supply unit has 1 armor. You have spending 300/200 to build a useless mech thing with 1 armor. And it's even more useless now with buffed infestors and nerfed liberators.
Jesus, they have nerfed a protoss since early 2019. And they even can't figure out why they are doing it. Let's revert obs speed. Great. The reason: " the FRUSTRATION caused by barely not catching Observers did not make up for the benefits" Are you crazy? How about THE FRUSTRATION to play late game vs Zerg? or disruptors disco dance as a terran?
Guys, I'm very sorry but this is bullshit and you know it.
Better start to work on map pool and veto system.
User was warned for this post.
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I like these changes a lot, I'm currently having fun with all the races and this proposal addresses few of the frustrating things I've encountered while not really breaking any of my playstile. The nerfs have corresponding buffs in different areas, plus we get few new fun options (speed voids, fast medivacs and 10 range lurkers  ).
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WCS
