• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:00
CEST 11:00
KST 18:00
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway13
Community News
SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia7Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues25LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon What happened to Singapore/Brazil servers?
Tourneys
WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast
Brood War
General
Pros React To: SoulKey's 5-Peat Challenge ASL20 General Discussion BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group B [ASL20] Ro16 Group A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Borderlands 3 Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1760 users

Blizz: Proposed changes for post-BlizzCon patch 2019 - Pag…

Forum Index > SC2 General
642 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 30 31 32 33 Next All
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25613 Posts
November 12 2019 01:47 GMT
#621
On November 12 2019 09:40 Slydie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2019 08:09 deacon.frost wrote:
On November 12 2019 08:02 Slydie wrote:
There was some debate about the Adept change on BeastyQT's stream today. He did not like the proposed change as it can be considered a nerf compared to how the unit works currently. However, I do understand why they want to focus more on the shade ability:

-It makes it feel more different from the Zealot, a unit it overlaps with a lot.
-To have the most DPS out of your adepts, you will have to shade constantly, even in fights, which is cool imo, and it increases the skillcap of the unit.
-Players will find ways to abuse the increased burst damage, obviusly for harassment, but also for flanking and sniping important units during fights.

I don't thing it is meant as a balance change but rather a way to make the unit more interresting. It reminds me of the "critical strike when leaving cloak" abilities we know from games like WC3 and mobas.

At the same time we're getting to
1) You need to more control speedlots
2) You need to more control adepts

3) Blink
4) FF
5) WP + immortal juggling
6) Storm
(we can continue)

Do you see the trend and where am I going? This isn't very healthy IMO compared to the other armies. While the meme of the a-move to victory is funny one the longer the game goes the more control heavy Protoss is with constant addition of some micro helpers.

(Both #1 and #2 are added right now)


Did you ever try microing 2 drops while sieging forward with mines and liberators, emping with ghosts and stim/kiting bio? It is humanly impossible of course. Increasing the skill cap of Toss is completely fine imo. You will get used to it!

I personally find Toss micro gets exponentially harder for the reasons Deacon describes, but am totally down for the changes if they both raise the skill floor a bit in terms of effectiveness of A-moving, while raising the ceiling to make Protoss players with good basic unit micro some more room to make use of it.

By basic I mean just splitting, flanking, targeting with basic stock units, so a speedier passive Zealot speed could fit that bill.

I think by and large people tend to prefer matchups and metas when stock unit control is more obviously at play than when it’s more about whose casters and abilities land at the correct times against the correct things.


'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Athenau
Profile Joined March 2015
569 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-12 02:29:49
November 12 2019 02:29 GMT
#622
On November 12 2019 10:47 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2019 09:40 Slydie wrote:
On November 12 2019 08:09 deacon.frost wrote:
On November 12 2019 08:02 Slydie wrote:
There was some debate about the Adept change on BeastyQT's stream today. He did not like the proposed change as it can be considered a nerf compared to how the unit works currently. However, I do understand why they want to focus more on the shade ability:

-It makes it feel more different from the Zealot, a unit it overlaps with a lot.
-To have the most DPS out of your adepts, you will have to shade constantly, even in fights, which is cool imo, and it increases the skillcap of the unit.
-Players will find ways to abuse the increased burst damage, obviusly for harassment, but also for flanking and sniping important units during fights.

I don't thing it is meant as a balance change but rather a way to make the unit more interresting. It reminds me of the "critical strike when leaving cloak" abilities we know from games like WC3 and mobas.

At the same time we're getting to
1) You need to more control speedlots
2) You need to more control adepts

3) Blink
4) FF
5) WP + immortal juggling
6) Storm
(we can continue)

Do you see the trend and where am I going? This isn't very healthy IMO compared to the other armies. While the meme of the a-move to victory is funny one the longer the game goes the more control heavy Protoss is with constant addition of some micro helpers.

(Both #1 and #2 are added right now)


Did you ever try microing 2 drops while sieging forward with mines and liberators, emping with ghosts and stim/kiting bio? It is humanly impossible of course. Increasing the skill cap of Toss is completely fine imo. You will get used to it!

I personally find Toss micro gets exponentially harder for the reasons Deacon describes, but am totally down for the changes if they both raise the skill floor a bit in terms of effectiveness of A-moving, while raising the ceiling to make Protoss players with good basic unit micro some more room to make use of it.

By basic I mean just splitting, flanking, targeting with basic stock units, so a speedier passive Zealot speed could fit that bill.

I think by and large people tend to prefer matchups and metas when stock unit control is more obviously at play than when it’s more about whose casters and abilities land at the correct times against the correct things.



No one can do everything, which is good, because it gives players more room to differentiate themselves (e.g a player with good basic unit control vs one that's good at drop micro vs one that's good at managing late-game armies with spell-casters, etc).

You saw this a lot with Protoss players in Brood War and their favored compositions (e.g Bisu with Corsair/Reaver vs Jangbi's storms).
Slydie
Profile Joined August 2013
1923 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-14 20:54:23
November 14 2019 20:20 GMT
#623
The OP should be updated again:
https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/23223600/starcraft-ii-balance-update-november-14-2019
STARCRAFT II BALANCE UPDATE - NOVEMBER 14, 2019

Greetings! Now that BlizzCon is behind us and the post-show patch looms, we’d like to take one final opportunity to examine some tweaks we could make to our initial proposals. As we’ve received generally positive feedback on the direction of the changes we’ve proposed, we intend to make these tweaks as small as possible while we wait for games to play out that will showcase these changes—for instance, at HomeStoryCup XX next week. Below is the list of final changes we’d like to make:

Lurker

Lurkers affected by Blinding Cloud will now only fire to melee range.
Previously, Lurkers under Blinding Cloud could not target enemies outside of melee range, but their spines would still fire to maximum range if they attacked a unit at melee range. After this change, Lurkers will effectively only shoot out a single spine if an enemy is within melee range. As a result, we believe Ultralisks will become a more competitive option in late-game ZvZ.

Nydus Worm

Removed the Propulsive Peristalsis upgrade from the Evolution Chamber.
We heard the feedback that the changes we proposed for the Propulsive Peristalsis upgrade, which reduced load and unload times on the Nydus Worm, would be unimpactful. As we’d like to avoid introducing upgrades that see little use and fail to encourage positive gameplay, we’d like to trim this upgrade from the upcoming patch.

Additional Changes/Bug Fixes

Splash damage will now properly be applied to units affected by Anti-Armor missile.
Fixed an issue where Abduct and Interference Matrix could still interrupt a Tactical Jumping Battlecruiser in certain situations.
Updated the Tactical Jump visual glaze.
As there are relatively few changes in this update, we’d also like to take the time to highlight our primary points of focus when looking at future changes.

Terran’s relationship against Disruptors with reduced Liberator range.
The resulting strength of Nydus Worms, especially when combined with Swarm Hosts.
The strength and prevalence of Lurkers in ZvP and ZvZ.
Numbers tweaks we could make to the new Microbial Shroud ability.
The strength and role of Zealots, both in general and against kiting Terran Bio units.
The strength use of the new Resonating Glaive ability.
The end-game dynamics of each matchup.
When this post goes live, the Balance Test Mod will have been updated with these changes. We also plan to push the balance changes to the live ladder at the start of next season on Tuesday, November 26th. Below is the full list of changes you’ll find in the upcoming patch:


TERRAN
Hellion/Hellbat

Infernal Pre-Igniter research cost decreased from 150/150 to 100/100.
Thor

High Impact Payload damage decreased from 40 (+15 vs Massive) to 25 (+10 vs Massive).
High Impact Payload weapon cooldown decreased from 1.7 to 0.9.
Medivac

Moved the Rapid Re-Ignition System upgrade from the Starport Tech Lab to the Fusion Core.
In addition to reducing the Medivac's Ignite Afterburners cooldown by 5 seconds, this upgrade will also increase the Medivac's base movement speed from 3.5 to 4.13. However, this upgrade will not affect Medivac’s movement speed during the Ignite Afterburners effect.
Liberator

Advanced Ballistics upgrade moved from the Starport Tech Lab to the Fusion Core.
Advanced Ballistics upgrade now increases the range of Liberators in Defender Mode by 3, down from 4.
Raven

Interference Matrix energy cost increased from 50 energy to 75 energy.
Interference Matrix duration increased from 8 seconds to 11 seconds.
Raven movement speed increased from 3.85 to 4.13.
Fixed an issue where splash damage will not properly apply to units affected by Anti-Armor missile.
Battlecruiser

Tactical Jump now stuns and puts the Battlecruiser into a 1 second vulnerability phase before it teleports. In this state, the Battlecruiser can be damaged, but Tactical Jump may not be canceled.
Yamato Cannon will no longer cancel itself if a target enters a transport or becomes cloaked/burrowed. Instead, the Yamato Cannon will miss, and the ability will go on cooldown.
M.U.L.E.

Duration decreased from 64 seconds to 63 seconds.
M.U.L.E.'s now always attempt to spawn on the side of minerals closest to a town hall.

ZERG
Creep

Active Creep Tumors may no longer be canceled.
Overlord

Pneumatized Carapace research cost increased from 75/75 to 100/100.
Infestor

Removed the Infested Terran ability.
New Ability: Microbial Shroud
Creates a shroud that obscures ground units below, reducing the damage they take from air units by 50%. Lasts 11 seconds. Energy cost: 100.
Cast range: 9.
Radius: 3.
New upgrade found on the Infestation Pit: Evolve Microbial Shroud
Requirement: Hive.
Research cost: 150/150.
Research duration: 79 seconds.
Neural Parasite range decreased from 9 to 8.
Neural Parasite can no longer target Heroic units.
Lurker

Lurker Den build time decreased from 86 seconds to 57 seconds.
Lurker range decreased from 9 to 8.
New Upgrade found on the Lurker Den: Seismic Spines
Increases the Lurker’s range from 8 to 10.
Requirement: Hive.
Research cost: 150/150.
Research duration: 57 seconds.
Increased research duration of Adaptive Talons from 54 seconds to 57 seconds.
Lurkers affected by Blinding Cloud will now only fire to melee range.
Brood Lord

Broodling leash range decreased from 12 to 9.
NYDUS NETWORK

Nydus Worm cost increased from 50/50 to 75/75.
Summon Nydus Worm ability cooldown increased from 0 to 14.
Nydus Network and Nydus Worm initial unload delay increased from 0.18 to 0.36.
Nydus Network and Nydus Worm load period increased from 0.09 to 0.18.
Nydus Network and Nydus Worm unload period increased from 0.18 to 0.36.

PROTOSS
Oracle, Sentry, and Void Ray

Fixed an issue where beam attacks could deal more damage than intended.
Zealot

The Charge upgrade no longer provides Zealots with +8 damage on impact. Instead, it increases Zealot movement speed from 3.15 to 4.72, up from 4.13.
Adept

Resonating Glaives reworked. Instead of increasing attack speed of the Adept by 45%, it will increase the attack speed of the Adept by 60% for 6 seconds after a completed Psionic Transfer.
Observer

Observer movement speed decreased from 3.01 to 2.63.
Gravitic Boosters upgrade now increases movement speed by 1.31, down from 1.51.
Void Ray

New upgrade found on the Fleet Beacon: Flux Vanes
Increases the Void Ray’s movement speed from 3.5 to 4.65.
Increases the Void Ray’s acceleration from 2.8 to 3.76.
After the upgrade, the Prismatic Alignment ability will still reduce the Void Ray’s movement speed to 2.625.
Research cost: 100/100.
Research duration: 57 seconds.
Tempest

Kinetic Overload (anti-air) range decreased from 15 to 14.
Health increased from 150 to 200.
Shields decreased from 125 to 100.
Mothership

Time Warp now affects air units in addition to ground units and buildings.
Time Warp delay reduces from 3.57 seconds to 1.79 seconds.
Gains the Heroic Tag. Neural Parasite can no longer target Heroic units.


Edit: fixed link
Buff the siegetank
sneakyfox
Profile Joined January 2017
8216 Posts
November 14 2019 20:44 GMT
#624
On November 15 2019 05:20 Slydie wrote:
The OP should be updated again:
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/551651-blizz-proposed-changes-for-post-blizzcon-patch-2019?page=32


Wrong link, here it is: https://starcraft2.com/en-us/news/23223600
"I saw what sneakyfox wrote on TL.net and it made me furious" - PartinG
geokilla
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada8240 Posts
November 14 2019 21:44 GMT
#625
So many upgrades.... The game is gonna get weird.
egrimm
Profile Joined September 2011
Poland1199 Posts
November 14 2019 22:59 GMT
#626
I am slowly getting more positive about the upcoming changes.
Most seam at least reasonable even if do not nail down the issues exactly.
However I am also not keen on adding more upgrades to the game as there is already a bit too many of them - some "clean up" would be nice.
Also I do not like Adept change, seems really circumstancial.
Maybe instead of increasing attack speed add bouncing attack (similar to mutalisk) ?
And if they want to differentiate Adept from zealot further they should make Adept more nimble:
Increase movement speed, decrease attack delay, reduce health/shields etc.
sOs TY PartinG
Drfilip
Profile Joined March 2013
Sweden590 Posts
November 14 2019 23:43 GMT
#627
On November 15 2019 07:59 egrimm wrote:
However I am also not keen on adding more upgrades to the game as there is already a bit too many of them - some "clean up" would be nice.

I am of the opposite side. The upgrades will make playstyles even more impactful. You will mold your military according to your wishes and it will be stronger as the games go on, making early game more pronounced.
Random Platinum EU
JesSaves
Profile Joined November 2019
1 Post
November 17 2019 13:42 GMT
#628
What do you think about an idea to change Nydus Network so it (main building) would take damage when Nydus Worm is destroyed? I think an appropriate amount is about 25%(maybe more) of network's HP per 1 worm. So zerg could create only 4 sequential Nydus Worms if every previous worm is destroyed by an enemy.

Logically it makes sence since Nydus Worm and Nydus Network is the same biological organism, so cutting off one head damages the main body.

What main essences stay behind this idea:
- To make Nydus meta play less reckless for zerg player. So Zerg has to estimate risks of creating Nydus worm right infront of enemy army. I think it will make Nydus net more as a strategical tool. Aslo multiple worms become more risky in general. Zerg can great as many exits as he wants, but an opponent can destroy whole network after 4 worms have been found and killed
- It will force Queen's Transfusion + Nydus Network interaction. In order to maintain Nydus Network beeing alive zerg has to use more transfusions behind the scene but not on the battlefield. Also it will make nydus strategy more APM consuming. 25% of nydus network HP = 212.5, so zerg has to make 2 transfusions (and plus some time) to cover the damage after 1 dead worm.
- Potentially we (as viewers) could watch more breathtaking gameplay moments when zerg army gets trapped on enemy base and die (or not), or even when zerg-player lose his army because of whole Network get destroyed.
- If enemy player sees 5th sequential Nydus worm after killing four previous in short time he will know that zerg is investing additional resources into Nydus strategy. Additional potential for mindgames.
- If zerg waits enough he will be able to create more Nydus worms thanks to zerg's regeneration.
BerserkSword
Profile Joined December 2018
United States2123 Posts
November 17 2019 16:34 GMT
#629
On November 12 2019 09:40 Slydie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2019 08:09 deacon.frost wrote:
On November 12 2019 08:02 Slydie wrote:
There was some debate about the Adept change on BeastyQT's stream today. He did not like the proposed change as it can be considered a nerf compared to how the unit works currently. However, I do understand why they want to focus more on the shade ability:

-It makes it feel more different from the Zealot, a unit it overlaps with a lot.
-To have the most DPS out of your adepts, you will have to shade constantly, even in fights, which is cool imo, and it increases the skillcap of the unit.
-Players will find ways to abuse the increased burst damage, obviusly for harassment, but also for flanking and sniping important units during fights.

I don't thing it is meant as a balance change but rather a way to make the unit more interresting. It reminds me of the "critical strike when leaving cloak" abilities we know from games like WC3 and mobas.

At the same time we're getting to
1) You need to more control speedlots
2) You need to more control adepts

3) Blink
4) FF
5) WP + immortal juggling
6) Storm
(we can continue)

Do you see the trend and where am I going? This isn't very healthy IMO compared to the other armies. While the meme of the a-move to victory is funny one the longer the game goes the more control heavy Protoss is with constant addition of some micro helpers.

(Both #1 and #2 are added right now)


Did you ever try microing 2 drops while sieging forward with mines and liberators, emping with ghosts and stim/kiting bio? It is humanly impossible of course. Increasing the skill cap of Toss is completely fine imo. You will get used to it!


All of that is fine and all but it is not as difficult as Protoss micro as it stands right now.

One thing you are also not taking into account that micro doesn’t mean nearly as much when there is such pitiful dps. Protoss units have such pitiful DPS! Including the new zealot. So while you can micro to get that juicy flank the zealots will just bounce off an MMM ball. It’s absurd.
TL+ Member
Carminedust
Profile Joined October 2014
487 Posts
November 17 2019 16:45 GMT
#630
cant wait for blinding cloud and whatever that infestor cloud thing is called to stack so nothing dies from air or ground as ultras eat away at everything on the ground
Maybe was Zoun only Fan before he retired idk
BerserkSword
Profile Joined December 2018
United States2123 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-17 16:51:25
November 17 2019 16:50 GMT
#631
On November 18 2019 01:45 Carminedust wrote:
cant wait for blinding cloud and whatever that infestor cloud thing is called to stack so nothing dies from air or ground as ultras eat away at everything on the ground


Ultras will still be garbage. Disruptors, ghost snipe still work. Heavy hitters like Thors (which can already beat ultra 1v1), immortal, and archon still can do damage to ultras. good luck trying to catch stim marauders under a blinding cloud
TL+ Member
FFgringo
Profile Joined December 2015
44 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-18 16:05:53
November 18 2019 16:04 GMT
#632
On November 18 2019 01:45 Carminedust wrote:
cant wait for blinding cloud and whatever that infestor cloud thing is called to stack so nothing dies from air or ground as ultras eat away at everything on the ground


Does the microbial shroud stack??

Edit: oh ok you mean stacking shroud and blinding cloud. Sorry.
Loccstana
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States833 Posts
November 19 2019 00:01 GMT
#633
Colossus get a range upgrade, lurkers get a range upgrade, siege tanks should get a range upgrade too.
[url]http://i.imgur.com/lw2yN.jpg[/url]
washikie
Profile Joined February 2011
United States752 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-19 00:48:00
November 19 2019 00:45 GMT
#634
On November 15 2019 07:59 egrimm wrote:
I am slowly getting more positive about the upcoming changes.
Most seam at least reasonable even if do not nail down the issues exactly.
However I am also not keen on adding more upgrades to the game as there is already a bit too many of them - some "clean up" would be nice.
Also I do not like Adept change, seems really circumstancial.
Maybe instead of increasing attack speed add bouncing attack (similar to mutalisk) ?
And if they want to differentiate Adept from zealot further they should make Adept more nimble:
Increase movement speed, decrease attack delay, reduce health/shields etc.


As long as an upgrade is not unbalanced I’m totally fine with it being in the game. It doesn’t hurt anything and it allows cool niche strategies to be used from time to time like recently when classic went blink dts. Or when Gumiho goes speed banshees. Sometimes niche upgrades take a long time to find thier uses but eventually do like burrow roaches (which had to be nerfed for zvz) My only problem with upgrades is if they are to strong or force another race to play a very specific way. Take khadrian amulet,blink back in the hots blink meta, blue flame in its first iteration, 75/75 overlord speed ect.
"when life gives Hero lemons he makes carriers" -Artosis
washikie
Profile Joined February 2011
United States752 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-19 00:59:32
November 19 2019 00:49 GMT
#635
On November 19 2019 09:01 Loccstana wrote:
Colossus get a range upgrade, lurkers get a range upgrade, siege tanks should get a range upgrade too.


As some one who plays both Zerg and Terran in masters I think that could make tvt and zvt unpleasant

if it was only +1 range maybe. but it would need to cost a lot and be gated behind fusion core or something. I guess you could play with it to not make turtle mech insufferable. You just don’t want it to be so strong that nothing can contest tanks on the ground. No mandatory air game is preferable. I wouldnt mind tanks getting some love vs toss though to make them scale a bit better. The removal of charge dmg on hit does help here since it means that terran’s frontline won’t die quite as fast maybe you get 1 extra tank shot volley now.
"when life gives Hero lemons he makes carriers" -Artosis
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15972 Posts
November 21 2019 14:39 GMT
#636
On November 19 2019 09:49 washikie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2019 09:01 Loccstana wrote:
Colossus get a range upgrade, lurkers get a range upgrade, siege tanks should get a range upgrade too.


As some one who plays both Zerg and Terran in masters I think that could make tvt and zvt unpleasant

if it was only +1 range maybe. but it would need to cost a lot and be gated behind fusion core or something. I guess you could play with it to not make turtle mech insufferable. You just don’t want it to be so strong that nothing can contest tanks on the ground. No mandatory air game is preferable. I wouldnt mind tanks getting some love vs toss though to make them scale a bit better. The removal of charge dmg on hit does help here since it means that terran’s frontline won’t die quite as fast maybe you get 1 extra tank shot volley now.

Disagree - positional units should be strong.
The upgrade should increase range by 5 (up to 18) and cost 50/50 on the techlab.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25613 Posts
November 21 2019 15:00 GMT
#637
On November 21 2019 23:39 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2019 09:49 washikie wrote:
On November 19 2019 09:01 Loccstana wrote:
Colossus get a range upgrade, lurkers get a range upgrade, siege tanks should get a range upgrade too.


As some one who plays both Zerg and Terran in masters I think that could make tvt and zvt unpleasant

if it was only +1 range maybe. but it would need to cost a lot and be gated behind fusion core or something. I guess you could play with it to not make turtle mech insufferable. You just don’t want it to be so strong that nothing can contest tanks on the ground. No mandatory air game is preferable. I wouldnt mind tanks getting some love vs toss though to make them scale a bit better. The removal of charge dmg on hit does help here since it means that terran’s frontline won’t die quite as fast maybe you get 1 extra tank shot volley now.

Disagree - positional units should be strong.
The upgrade should increase range by 5 (up to 18) and cost 50/50 on the techlab.

*Shudders*

I think Blizz botched the tank, it was a perfect RTS unit. Long range with a deploy period that gives it a definable strength and weakness. Does splash and friendly fire so lots of soft countermeasures too.

Not only do units exist that can A-move into tank lines, spells exist that can yoink tanks, we now have a bunch of units that even out range tanks too, without the other drawbacks tanks have in mobility and positioning.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
AntiHack
Profile Joined January 2009
Switzerland553 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-21 17:09:44
November 21 2019 15:30 GMT
#638
On November 08 2019 01:52 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2019 01:29 Lexender wrote:
On October 04 2019 05:16 Noocta wrote:
This game has become way too upgrade bloated. There's a design problem ? make a new upgrade ? Something too strong, too weak, upgrades there, upgrades everywhere.

Just compare how clean most of the Broodwar upgrades are compared to this.


Yes, +1 sight range for ghosts is very clearly a clean upgrade.


lol, didn't even remember that one.

But then I haven't followed BW in a long time. Are the Queen upgrades ever used? xD

Yes, queen is a solid pvt meta now, but even if it wasn't... unused units doesn't equal balance or imbalance.
"I am very tired of your grammar errors" - Zoler[MB]
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
November 21 2019 17:04 GMT
#639
On November 22 2019 00:30 AntiHack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2019 01:52 Harris1st wrote:
On November 08 2019 01:29 Lexender wrote:
On October 04 2019 05:16 Noocta wrote:
This game has become way too upgrade bloated. There's a design problem ? make a new upgrade ? Something too strong, too weak, upgrades there, upgrades everywhere.

Just compare how clean most of the Broodwar upgrades are compared to this.


Yes, +1 sight range for ghosts is very clearly a clean upgrade.


lol, didn't even remember that one.

But then I haven't followed BW in a long time. Are the Queen upgrades ever used? xD

Yes, queen is a solid pvt meta now, but even if it wasn't... unused units doesn't equeal balance or imbalance.

Which wasn't the claim, but thank you for your valuable input.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
AntiHack
Profile Joined January 2009
Switzerland553 Posts
November 21 2019 17:12 GMT
#640
On November 22 2019 02:04 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2019 00:30 AntiHack wrote:
On November 08 2019 01:52 Harris1st wrote:
On November 08 2019 01:29 Lexender wrote:
On October 04 2019 05:16 Noocta wrote:
This game has become way too upgrade bloated. There's a design problem ? make a new upgrade ? Something too strong, too weak, upgrades there, upgrades everywhere.

Just compare how clean most of the Broodwar upgrades are compared to this.


Yes, +1 sight range for ghosts is very clearly a clean upgrade.


lol, didn't even remember that one.

But then I haven't followed BW in a long time. Are the Queen upgrades ever used? xD

Yes, queen is a solid pvt meta now, but even if it wasn't... unused units doesn't equeal balance or imbalance.

Which wasn't the claim, but thank you for your valuable input.

It's more of a message to the scout, ghost, queen whiners that always talk about those units in terms of balance.
"I am very tired of your grammar errors" - Zoler[MB]
Prev 1 30 31 32 33 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 6406
Larva 524
Hyun 269
sSak 209
Soma 93
Dewaltoss 65
Noble 29
ToSsGirL 10
Dota 2
The International125901
Gorgc7763
Dendi829
NeuroSwarm111
PGG 19
League of Legends
JimRising 522
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K784
allub149
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King159
Other Games
XaKoH 108
Nina68
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick399
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1192
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
1h
Cure vs Zoun
Classic vs Maru
Maestros of the Game
8h
ShoWTimE vs herO
Bunny vs Zoun
TBD vs Serral
TBD vs Classic
BSL Team Wars
10h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 1h
Snow vs Sharp
Jaedong vs Mini
Wardi Open
1d 2h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Light vs Speed
Larva vs Soma
LiuLi Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
[ Show More ]
[BSL 2025] Weekly
6 days
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.