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Blizz: Proposed changes for post-BlizzCon patch 2019

Forum Index > SC2 General
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TL.net ESPORTS
Profile Joined July 2011
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-30 01:44:32
October 03 2019 20:08 GMT
#1
Update

October 29th changes: StarCraft2.com

Hi all! In the excitement before the culmination of this year’s WCS finals, we think it’s a good opportunity to revisit the proposals made earlier in the month with a fresh perspective. Special thanks to Wardi and his Balance Test Mod Invitational, which showcased these new changes in action. After further watching games and following feedback, below are a few changes we’d like to make to the testing queue:

ADJUSTMENTS TO OLD CHANGES:

• Reverted: Viking health increased from 135 to 150.

Based on feedback, we’d like to pull this change back for now due to concerns surrounding the Viking’s subsequent increased power in TvT as well as its increased strength in earlier parts of the game. If the Viking has any deficiencies, we believe they exist later on when end-game units and area-of-effect abilities start coming into play. Thus, if necessary, we’d like to instead tackle the Viking’s strength in late-game with alterations to end-game units from other races—such as Tempests—rather than to the Viking itself.

• Reverted: Battlecruiser Tactical Jump cooldown increased from 71 seconds to 86 seconds.
• Reverted: Removed the Research Neural Parasite upgrade. Infestors now come with Neural Parasite by default.
• Altered: Tactical Jump now stuns and puts the Battlecruiser into a 1 second vulnerability phase before it teleports.

Last update, we tested a variety of Battlecruiser-related changes aimed at broadening counterplay options against the unit. At the same time, we believe the ways in which Battlecruisers are currently used are overall pretty cool. After feedback, we’d like the prune and alter our changes such that we improve the feeling of fairness when fighting against Battlecruisers and, at the same time, preserve the core of current Battlecruiser play.

Thus, we’ll be removing changes to Tactical Jump cooldown and reinstating the Neural Parasite upgrade. We’ll also be keeping the vulnerability phase on Tactical Jump with one key alternation: “stun” effects such as Interference Matrix, Fungal Growth, and Abduct will no longer be able to cancel Tactical Jump and put it on cooldown. This change brings the behavior of Tactical Jump to be more similar to both Strategic Recall and Mass Recall.

• Reverted: New upgrade found on the Twilight Council: Sundering Impact-Grants Zealots the ability to deal +8 damage to enemies on Charge impact.
• Reverted: Adept health increased from 70 to 80.
• Reverted: Adept shields decreased from 70 to 60.
• Reverted: New upgrade found on the Twilight Council: Amplified Shielding-Increases the Adept’s shields from 60 to 80.

We’d also like to put a pause on these changes for in favor of some alternate proposals. For Zealots, we hear concerns regarding Protoss’s resulting overall power level after this change. For Adepts, we hear feedback that this upgrade isn’t impactful enough, so if it were reintroduced, we would do so with slightly altered stats.

NEW CHANGES:

Creep
• Active Creep Tumors may no longer be canceled.

Last year, we made some changes to creep spread in order to promote the gameplay surrounding creep denial. This year, we’d like to try to take it a step further with this change, aimed at the dance we typically see between Hellions and Queens. We believe the change will increase both the interaction between players and the skill cap for all parties involved.

Overlord
• Pneumatized Carapace research cost increased from 75/75 to 100/100.

When we initially made the change to reduce the cost of this upgrade, we had been receiving feedback that the different variations of various PvZ Immortal all-ins were too difficult to differentiate and scout. Since then, we’ve received additional feedback that Zerg have gotten better at defending these all-ins and that the changes to the Warp Prism in the same patch were alone sufficient at dealing with this issue. Additionally, we believe the upgrade is currently too omnipresent in both ZvT and ZvP, leading to players feeling less able to surprise their Zerg opponents. Thus, we’d like to revert this previous change, which we believe will lead to more thoughtful decision making regarding when to research this upgrade.

Infestor
• Removed the Infested Terran ability.
• New Ability: Microbial Shroud
• Creates a shroud that obscures ground units below, reducing the damage they take from air units by 50%.
• Lasts 11 seconds.
• Energy cost: 100.
• Cast range: 9.
• Radius: 3.
• New upgrade found on the Infestation Pit: Evolve Microbial Shroud Requirement: Hive
• Research cost: 150/150.
• Research duration: 79 seconds.

While we’re not completely shelving the previously proposed changes to the Infested Terran, we’d like to try an alternate proposal. This new ability is designed to replace the anti-air role that the Infested Terran ability occupied. A key difference, however, is that Microbial Shroud acts as more of a force-multiplier rather than a standalone spell with lethal potential. This means that mass Infestors will be significantly less powerful than before and that other Zerg ground units would have to be mixed in for maximum effectiveness.

Our first iteration of this ability has it gated on Hive, as we believe having this ability unlocked on Lair tech restricts mid-game air play too much. In addition, as this is one of the most experimental and unique abilities we’ve ever introduced, we expect many alterations to its stats if it goes live.

As a point of clarification, the first iteration of this spell will not protect buildings nor Colossi. Nor will it protect against Oracles attacks, Colossus attacks, or Yamato Cannon. It can also not be cast while the Infestor is burrowed.

Nydus Network/Worm
• Nydus Worm cost increased from 50/50 to 75/75.

We generally enjoy the increased usage of Nydus Worms this year, and we believe one of the keys to its increased usage is its decreased Worm cost of 50/50, compared to 100/100 last year. However, at the moment, we believe that Nydus Worms are slightly too cheap, specifically in the early and mid-game stages after a Nydus Network is built. At this fragile economic timing, a failed Nydus Worm might not be punishing enough, and just the threat of the Nydus could pin too much of an enemy army at home.

As we already have two proposed changes to the Nydus Network/Worm, we will be evaluating which of the changes should go through, including the possibility of having all three go live. At the same time, however, we want to ensure we preserve a certain percentage of the Nydus’ power, as we believe it is key to encouraging map-wide multipronged attack options for Zerg and pulling apart turtling enemies in the late-game.

Zealot
• The Charge upgrade no longer provides Zealots with +8 damage on impact. Instead, it increases Zealot movement speed from 3.15 to 4.72, up from 4.13.

A concern we’ve had regarding the Zealot is its raw frontal power, especially when compared to its ease of use and the relative difficulty of defending against them. Thus, we’d like to try this change that aims to exchange its direct power in favor of increased mobility. This change would also restore the age-old relationship between weapon-upgraded Zealots and carapace-upgraded Zerglings. Because an exchange of damage for speed moves its power into a drastically different area, we categorize this change as very experimental. We’ll especially be looking at how the increased speed impacts their relationship against kiting Stimmed units.

Adept
• Resonating Glaives reworked. Instead of increasing attack speed of the Adept by 45%, it will increase the attack speed of the Adept by 60% for 6 seconds after completing a Psionic Transfer.

We view Adepts as having two primary problems: its role overlaps that of the Zealot, and it’s viewed as having low utility in late-game, which we believe is due to the Zealot overshadowing it. Not only do Zealots and Adepts have similar matchups against enemy units, they both control and function similarly by being strong front-line attack-move units (Internally, we call these units “pushers”). This is especially exacerbated by the previous version of the Resonating Glaives upgrade, which highlights the raw frontal power of the Adept and draws away from its distinctiveness and coolness, which we believe comes from its Psionic Transfer ability.

Thus, the new direction we’d like to take with the Adept is to rework the Resonating Glaives upgrade into one that moves it away from the direction of being a strong pusher and towards one that highlights the Adept’s defining characteristic: Psionic Transfer. With this newly designed upgrade, Adepts will achieve only 92% of its previous upgraded damage when used optimally in a frontal fight in the long term. However, it will become much more effective at burst damage, for example, after a shade in for surprise worker harassment or when you need to break a Marine/Tank push. At the same time, it will still have obvious counterplay, such as Banelings, Widow Mines, building walls, or running away until the attack speed bonus runs out. In addition, this new upgrade could add a back-and-forth dance where both players attempt to engage during their preferred Adept state. Hopefully, after this change, Adepts will be more pointed and overlap less with the Zealot, especially in mid and late-game. As with other experimental changes, the stats of this ability are subject to change.

Mothership
• Added Heroic tag.
• Neural Parasite can no longer target Heroic units.

Due to the increased power of the newly improved Time Warp, we have concerns that the power swing gained from Abducting and then Neuraling a Mothership might be too high. With this change that heavily leans into its gameplay fantasy, a Mothership will always be able to contribute to the fight in favor of the Protoss player.

BUG FIXES

• The Thor’s High Impact Payload will now receive proper upgrade values.
• Oracle, Void Ray, and Sentry weapons updated to prevent weapons from firing slower than intended. These units are NOT intended to fire slower when switching targets compared to the live game.
• Void Ray, Sentry weapon icons and upgrade levels now show properly in the info panel.
• Fixed a bug where the Lurker had less range than intended.

These changes will be published to the Testing Matchmaking Queue shortly. As always, we’d like to reiterate that these changes are not final, and we’ll be actively looking at your feedback. Finally, below is our full list of changes for your convenience.


Original post/patch-notes: October 3rd
+ Show Spoiler [Click to reveal] +
Source: StarCraft2.com
Hey everyone,

Each year, we take a step back to evaluate what improvements we could make to the game for a post-BlizzCon design patch. As we come closer and closer to stability with each passing year, for 2019, we’ll be focusing more on tweaks and refinements to existing units. Some themes in this year’s patch include:

  • Introducing new upgrades designed to gate the full power of certain units and improve late-game usage for others.
  • Strategically reducing ranges of key units and abilities to encourage greater interaction in late game.

Before we start, please bear in mind that this update contains many experimental changes that we’d like to try and test, and we’ll do our best at highlighting which ones we’re especially wary of.

Terran

HELLION/HELLBAT

  • Infernal Pre-Igniter research cost decreased from 150/150 to 100/100.

In the summer of 2011, the legendary SlayerS Terrans unleashed a revolutionary “Blue Flame Hellion” build upon hapless Zerg players around the world, and the balance team had no choice but to act, cutting the bonus provided by the Infernal Pre-Igniter upgrade in half. Since then, the upgrade has acted more as a time-gate to the Hellion/Hellbat’s mid-game combat power rather than a core upgrade for matchup-defining openers. As such, we’d like to reduce the cost of this upgrade to encourage earlier and more meaningful Hellion/Hellbat power spikes.

THOR
  • High Impact Payload damage decreased from 40 (+15 vs Massive) to 25 (+10 vs Massive).
  • High Impact Payload weapon cooldown decreased from 1.7 to 0.9.

A common complaint we’ve heard regarding the Thor is its ability to be controlled in late-game fights. Because the Thor’s anti-ground and anti-air attacks have such drastically different cooldowns, it can often feel unresponsive in these engagements. Thus, we’d like to try an experimental change that brings the High Impact Payload’s cooldown to the same as that of its anti-ground weapon, Thor’s Hammer. The primary purpose of this change is neither to increase nor decrease the Thor’s power, but rather to improve the responsiveness without hurting its fantasy. Of course, there are tradeoffs to this change; while this new Thor has lower burst damage, it will tend to overkill its targets less frequently. Because we view the lower burst damage to be slightly more impactful than the lower overkill potential, we’ll also be slightly raising the DPS of this weapon to start off.

VIKING
  • Health increased from 135 to 150.

We’d like for the Viking to be a stronger counter to the units it’s intended to fight. After this change, Vikings will generally take additional shots to kill from Corruptors, Stalkers, and Tempests. Perhaps more importantly, it’ll be more resilient against area effects such as Fungal Growth, Parasitic Bomb, and Psionic Storm.

Some concerns we have for this change include the strength of individual Viking in the early game, the potency of timing pushes against Colossi in TvP, and its general power level in TvT. We’ll also be careful to evaluate how impactful this change will be considering other changes proposed, especially those involving the Infestor and Tempest.

MEDIVAC
  • Moved the Rapid Re-Ignition System upgrade from the Starport Tech Lab to the Fusion Core.

In addition to reducing the Medivac's Ignite Afterburners cooldown by 5 seconds, this upgrade will also increase the Medivac's base movement speed from 3.5 to 4.13. However, this upgrade will not affect Medivac’s movement speed during the Ignite Afterburners effect.
In the past, our goals with various Medivac upgrades has always been two-fold: first, to introduce an upgrade that improves mid- or late-game multipronged Medivac harassment. And secondly, to ensure this upgrade does not greatly improve potentially game-ending doom drops.

Previous Medivac upgrades have seen little use as they were viewed as unimpactful and at an awkward position on the Terran tech tree. We’d like to start off by introducing this new, more visibly impactful upgrade on the Fusion Core, a building that often finds itself idling. We believe this could be a potentially powerful upgrade either researched in the late game or from Battlecruiser openers.

LIBERATOR
  • Advanced Ballistics upgrade moved from the Starport Tech Lab to the Fusion Core.

Likewise, the transition to ranged Liberators can also be awkward and, in more than one matchup, lead to a period of inactivity on the Terran’s part. We’d like to try to smooth this transition by transplanting the upgrade to the Fusion Core, and we feel confident we can safely do so with the following change:

  • Advanced Ballistics upgrade now increases the range of Liberators in Defender Mode by 3, down from 4.

We’d like to reduce the range of a few key units and abilities, including fully upgraded Liberators, in order to promote more unit interaction in the late game. This range reduction is meant to be viewed as a package with the changes to Neural Parasite and the Tempest as they are two units/abilities that often interact with the Liberator.

RAVEN
  • Interference Matrix energy cost increased from 50 energy to 75 energy.
  • Interference Matrix duration increased from 8 seconds to 11 seconds.

We believe the Raven is slightly too powerful in early-game TvT, leading to a low level of diversity in this matchup’s openers. As Interference Matrix is key to the Raven’s strength in TvT, we’d like to make some adjustments to divert its power from disabling Siege Tanks. As early-game TvT engagements are characterized by quick exchanges of Tank volleys, we believe an energy cost increase in favor of increased duration would constitute a bigger change in TvT than the other matchups.

  • Raven movement speed increased from 3.85 to 4.13.

We’d also like to place more of the Raven’s power into the unit's body. When the Raven was potentially lethal with previous iterations of Hunter-seeker missile and Anti-armor missile, the slower movement speed was a necessary counterbalance. Now that the Raven occupies more of a support role, we believe it’s no longer necessary to exercise such restraint, and a higher movement speed could allow it to be more useful at harassment and creep-clearing.

Our goals with these set of changes is to decrease the Raven’s early-game power in TvT while either maintaining or increasing its power in other matchups. If this set of changes fails to achieve either of these goals, we’ll be ready to make tweaks.

BATTLECRUISER
  • Tactical Jump now stuns and puts the Battlecruiser into a 1 second vulnerability phase before it teleports.

While we enjoy the increased Battlecruiser usage over the last year, we think it’s a bit too easy for them to escape unfavorable situations, so we’d like to make this change to encourage Battlecruiser players to think twice before committing their fleets into risky predicaments. After this change, Interference Matrix, Fungal Growth, and Abduct will be able to cancel Tactical Jump and put it on cooldown during the Battlecruiser’s vulnerability phase.

  • Tactical Jump cooldown increased from 71 seconds to 86 seconds.

An alternate potential change we’d like to try is simply to increase Tactical Jump’s cooldown, which would temper its ability to constantly harass and perform hit-and-run tactics on enemies, especially in the late game. When considering options to tweak the Battlecruiser, we’re interested in some combination of the above two changes, but perhaps not both.

  • Yamato Cannon will no longer cancel itself if a target enters a transport or becomes cloaked/burrowed. Instead, the Yamato Cannon will miss, and the ability will go on cooldown.

In addition, we’d like to introduce some counter-play options against Yamato Cannon.

MULE
  • Duration decreased from 64 seconds to 63 seconds.

After this change, Mules will still mine the same number of Minerals if left undisturbed. However, they will no longer expire while holding minerals from certain patches.

  • Mules now always attempt to spawn on the side of minerals closest to a town hall.

This general quality of life change also helps ensure undisturbed Mules always mine their maximum potential.


Zerg

INFESTOR
  • Infested Terran energy cost increased from 25 to 50.
  • Infested Terran health increased from 50 to 75.
  • Infested Swarm Egg health increased from 70 to 75.
  • The Infested Terran’s Gauss Rifle damage increased from 6 to 12.
  • The Infested Terran’s Infested Rockets damage increased from 14 to 24.
  • Infested Rockets now gain +2 per ranged weapon upgrade, up from +1.
  • Infested Rockets attack period decreased from 1.14 to 0.95.

We’d like to redesign the Infested Terran ability with the following goals in mind: First, to make each Infested Terran feel like more of a commitment. Secondly, we want to provide players with more clear counters-play options against Infested Terrans.

Our proposal is a more expensive and powerful Infested Terran that is still vulnerable to key Terran and Protoss units and abilities. With this redesign, while Infested Terrans will have higher damage density, they’ll be more vulnerable to Psionic Storm, Disruptors, and Liberators.

  • Neural Parasite range decreased from 9 to 8.

On the theme of reducing the ranges of key late game-oriented units and abilities, we’d like to reduce the range of Neural Parasite in order to ensure that the Infestor must put itself in greater danger when casting this potentially game-ending ability.

  • Removed the Research Neural Parasite upgrade. Infestors now come with Neural Parasite by default.

One piece of feedback we’ve heard regarding Battlecruiser openers in TvZ is that while they’re not necessarily too powerful, they often result in a few minutes of inaction on the part of the Zerg player due to the heavy investment required to punch through an army involving any number of Battlecruisers. On the Terran side, we’ve heard feedback that Battlecruiser openers are used so often because they are the best and most stable opener that can be used to transition into mech. This feedback is a bit concerning since we like that Battlecruiser openings are viable, but we nonetheless feel they might be crowding out other cool Terran openers.

This very experimental change could theoretically provide Zerg a more direct option to be aggressive against Battlecruiser openings and open them up to a potential weakness. For now, we believe this change is safe to try given both the Neural Parasite range decrease and the relative low importance of the upgrade’s research duration and time when considering late-game situations. We will also take care to note how the other proposed Battlecruiser changes, designed at changing Battlecruiser interactions in the mid-to-late game, interact with this change, designed at influencing early-game interactions.

LURKER
  • Lurker Den build time decreased from 86 seconds to 57 seconds.
  • Lurker range decreased from 9 to 8.
  • New Upgrade found on the Lurker Den: Seismic Spines
    • Increases the Lurker’s range from 8 to 10.
    • Requirement: Hive
    • Research cost: 150/150.
    • Research duration: 57 seconds.

  • Increased research duration of Adaptive Talons from 54 seconds to 57 seconds.

We’d like to provide Zerg a strong, dynamic counter against Immortal/Templar-based armies that isn’t Brood Lords. We believe that unit should be the Lurker as it is already close to fulfilling that role. Our first try will attempt to do so in two ways. First, we’d like to smooth out the transition to Lurkers, while at the same time lowering their initial strength to smooth out their power curve as a concern for Lurker-based timings. We’d also like to add a late-game upgrade geared towards fighting Immortal/Templar-based Protoss ground armies.

Finally, increasing the research duration of Adaptive Talons brings it more in line with other upgrades in the game.

BROOD LORD
  • Broodling leash range decreased from 12 to 9.

Without getting too deep in the weeds, the Broodling’s current 12 leash range allows the Broodlord to attack from 13 range with an attack-click order. By reducing leash range to 9, the Broodlord will always be limited to 10 range regardless of command.

NYDUS NETWORK
  • Nydus Network and Nydus Worm initial unload delay increased from 0.18 to 0.36.
  • Nydus Network and Nydus Worm load period increased from 0.09 to 0.18.
  • Nydus Network and Nydus Worm unload period increased from 0.18 to 0.36.
  • New upgrade found on the Evolution Chamber: Secreted Coating
    • Reduces the Nydus Network and Nydus Worm’s initial unload delay from 0.36 to 0.18.
    • Reduces the Nydus Network and Nydus Worm’s load period from 0.18 to 0.09.
    • Reduces the Nydus Network and Nydus Worm’s unload period from 0.36 to 0.18.
    • Requirement: Hive.
    • Research cost: 100/100.
    • Research duration: 57 seconds.

While we love the experimentation with Nydus Networks and Worms over this past year, we think there are opportunities to temper its power in key situations. For one, we believe the early-game all-in potential is a bit too strong, so we’d like to take the opportunity to delay some of the Nydus’ early- and mid-game power to reapply it at the Hive level. In addition to reducing all-in strength, we’d also like to provide greater opportunity for players to punish Zergs who overcommit their units—for instance, in the case of retreating Swarm Hosts.

  • Summon Nydus Worm ability cooldown increased from 0 to 14.

Currently, Nydus Networks are able to queue up Nydus Worms one after the other; if a Nydus Worm is destroyed during constructing, its corresponding Nydus Network can then immediately build a new Worm at another location on the map. This has led to situations where players defending against an early Nydus all-in would be hastily ping-ponged between bases. It also created strange instances where it was actually optimal to kill a building Nydus Worm at the very last second in order to delay the subsequent Nydus worm.

Therefore, we’d like to add a cooldown on the Summon Nydus Worm ability equal to the build time of the Nydus Worm. If your Worms finish construction, there’ll be virtually no difference in Network uptime. But if a Worm is killed in the middle of construction, its Network will go on cooldown equal to the remaining build time of the destroyed Worm. Another result of this change is that players will no longer be able to queue Worms back-to-back, meaning the onus of attention will shift more in favor of the defender.


Protoss

ORACLE, SENTRY, VOID RAY
  • Fixed an issue where beam attacks could deal more damage than intended.

With this change, players will no longer be able to micro these units to deal unintended extra damage to a single target. However, these units will still retain their previous behavior in all other situations.

ZEALOT
  • The Charge upgrade no longer provides Zealots with +8 damage on impact.
  • New upgrade found on the Twilight Council: Sundering Impact
    • Grants Zealots the ability to deal +8 damage to enemies on Charge impact.
    • Requirement: Charge researched.
    • Research cost: 100/100.
    • Research duration: 100 seconds.

We believe the power spike gained from researching the Charge upgrade could be a bit too high for its cost and comes a bit too early in the game, therefore crowding out other gateway options. With this change, we’d like to smooth out that power curve. After this change, we believe Protoss will have a more difficult time defending early third bases against Terran, as well as pursuing all-in strategies against Zerg and Terran mech with Chargelots.

ADEPT
  • Adept health increased from 70 to 80.
  • Adept shields decreased from 70 to 60.
  • New upgrade found on the Twilight Council: Amplified Shielding
    • Increases the Adept’s shields from 60 to 80.
    • Research cost: 100/100.
    • Research duration: 100 seconds.

In the recent past, we’ve been very careful at managing the strength of the Adept due to its historical potential when paired with Phoenixes in TvP. But now that Terrans have a clear and powerful counter to Adepts in the form of EMP, we feel more confident that we can safely scale this unit a little better into the mid-to-late game.

With the previous two changes, our goal is to bring the Zealot and Adept together as more comparable options for a core mid-game unit.

OBSERVER
  • Observer movement speed decreased from 3.01 to 2.63.
  • Gravitic Boosters upgrade now increases movement speed by 1.31, down from 1.51.

We’d like to revert this change we made earlier in the year, as we feel the frustration caused by barely not catching Observers did not make up for the benefits of the speed increase.

VOID RAY
  • New upgrade found on the Fleet Beacon: Flux Vanes
    • Increases the Void Ray’s movement speed from 3.5 to 4.65.
    • Increases the Void Ray’s acceleration from 2.8 to 3.76.
    • After the upgrade, the Prismatic Alignment ability will still reduce the Void Ray’s movement speed to 2.625.
    • Research cost: 100/100.
    • Research duration: 57 seconds.

Early in Wings of Liberty, Flux Vanes was removed because it led to some undesirable game states, allowing Void Ray to easily maneuver into the opponents’ base where it could charge up and potentially camp indefinitely. The Void Ray was also disproportionately powerful at lower skill levels, and Flux Vanes compounded this issue.

Now that the Void Ray has an active Prismatic Alignment ability instead of the passive Prismatic Beams ability, we feel more comfortable reintroducing Flux Vanes in order to push the unit into a potentially new role.

TEMPEST
  • Kinetic Overload (anti-air) range decreased from 15 to 14.

This is another change designed to rein in the ranges of key late-game units. In combination with the Liberator change, we believe this set of changes will retain the relationship between Liberators and Tempests while allowing lower tier units such as Stalkers and Vikings to interact more easily.

  • Health increased from 150 to 200.
  • Shields decreased from 125 to 100.

We’d like to tweak the Tempest’s life stats, both to compensate for the range decrease and to be more resilient against EMP Round, which we believe is currently too effective against this capital ship due to its relatively low health-to-shields ratio.

MOTHERSHIP
  • Time Warp now affects air units in addition to ground units and buildings.
  • Time Warp delay reduces from 3.57 seconds to 1.79 seconds.

Even after last year’s changes, we still believe that Time Warp’s current power level is not suitable for such an imposing and awe-inspiring unit. We’d like to try some tweaks, but are especially wary that the delay reduction could be too oppressive.


Once again, this is our first pass of changes for our post-BlizzCon update coming in late November. As with previous design updates, these changes are balanced towards being more noticeable; expect new changes to be added or some being removed as we progress through the testing period. Starting on Tuesday, you’ll be able to hop into the Testing Matchmaking queue and try out the changes. Be sure to let us know what you think. Good luck and have fun!
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TL+ Member
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55510 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-03 20:11:17
October 03 2019 20:10 GMT
#2
Some of these changes sound really weird. Bad even. We'll see how it plays out because surely there's gonna be iterations here. But for now it looks like they're just about removing Protoss from the game (at the highest level).
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
October 03 2019 20:16 GMT
#3
This game has become way too upgrade bloated. There's a design problem ? make a new upgrade ? Something too strong, too weak, upgrades there, upgrades everywhere.

Just compare how clean most of the Broodwar upgrades are compared to this.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Juny1spion
Profile Joined December 2014
Czech Republic25 Posts
October 03 2019 20:25 GMT
#4
Usually we get big and refreshing changes after Blizzcon since we should be making up for new datadiscs... but these seem so "meh". A nerf here, a buff there and then a bunch of new upgrades.

That is so frustrating to read because especially now the meta is figured out and soooo stale.

Well, talking about the changes themselves - infestor should be redesigned, not tweaked over and over so it jumps from being OP to being horrible. Nydus changes were necessary and so many Twilight Council upgrades will be very confusing. But we'll need to see all of this in action of course...

Overall nice changes IMHO, but it's something I'd expect in a mid-year patch rather than after-Blizzcon patch. Every TvZ will still go into late game super early, Protoss will try to kill Zerg before lategame and while it seems Terran will have more chances in PvT, the games are going to look very similar anyway. Nothing exciting.
Jimmon
Profile Joined May 2011
United States112 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-03 20:38:30
October 03 2019 20:30 GMT
#5
"We believe the Raven is slightly too powerful in early-game TvT"

"Interference Matrix duration increased from 8 seconds to 11 seconds."

Bruh.. Wut?

Also..

ZEALOT
The Charge upgrade no longer provides Zealots with +8 damage on impact.
New upgrade found on the Twilight Council: Sundering Impact
Grants Zealots the ability to deal +8 damage to enemies on Charge impact.
Requirement: Charge researched.
Research cost: 100/100.
Research duration: 100 seconds.


Thats just reverting the damn buff in the first place. Now it's back to how it was.. 200/200 with more time researched. WHAT?

So many Protoss Nerf's, yet so much Buffs on the other races. I rarely say stuff like this, but this really sucks.

I love LOveRH
naughtDE
Profile Blog Joined May 2019
158 Posts
October 03 2019 20:30 GMT
#6
Perplexing set of changes.

Flux Vanes...oh thee nostalgia, terrible design, yet terribly fun.
"I'll take [LET IT SNOW] for 800" - Sean Connery (Darrell Hammond)
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
October 03 2019 20:30 GMT
#7
This is bizarre. Protoss design and balance both getting worse by the month
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-03 22:23:24
October 03 2019 20:31 GMT
#8
The most important changes (Nydus, BL, Battlecruiser) seem a step in the right direction at the very least (or intended to step in the right direction), but a bunch of the rest seem very odd. Who ever asked for that observer change? Why do we need so many upgrades? Hasn't Blizzard realized after all these years that speeding everything up (in this case Medivacs, Ravens, Void Rays) doesn't make things better?
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
October 03 2019 20:37 GMT
#9
Not gonna lie, I was hoping for more radical changes than these
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
October 03 2019 20:50 GMT
#10
i forgot everything i read and ran franticly to find a place to hide when i read flux vanes.
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
ImSquanchnHere
Profile Joined March 2019
15 Posts
October 03 2019 20:55 GMT
#11
If we're going full nostalgia why not bring back vortex lol. I'm not smart enough to know how this will affect everything but I do like that Blizzard is trying to make units that are not heavily used (VR, Lurker, Mothership, Hellbat etc) more viable. It will take time to see how everything works itself out.

I do believe the zealot upgrade time is huge especially bc it already takes charge so long to upgrade. If they want to add another upgrade then I think the new charge research time should be reduced to around 60 seconds ish and then the damage upgrade can then take another 100 seconds afterward.
Solar424
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
United States4001 Posts
October 03 2019 20:56 GMT
#12
On October 04 2019 05:30 Jimmon wrote:
"We believe the Raven is slightly too powerful in early-game TvT"

"Interference Matrix duration increased from 8 seconds to 11 seconds."

Bruh.. Wut?

Also..

ZEALOT
The Charge upgrade no longer provides Zealots with +8 damage on impact.
New upgrade found on the Twilight Council: Sundering Impact
Grants Zealots the ability to deal +8 damage to enemies on Charge impact.
Requirement: Charge researched.
Research cost: 100/100.
Research duration: 100 seconds.


Thats just reverting the damn buff in the first place. Now it's back to how it was.. 200/200 with more time researched. WHAT?

So many Protoss Nerf's, yet so much Buffs on the other races. I rarely say stuff like this, but this really sucks.


In what way did Zerg get buffed, all I’m seeing are nerfs across the board.
gnuoy000
Profile Joined July 2018
31 Posts
October 03 2019 20:58 GMT
#13
was I the only one expecting more terran buffs than the hellion and viking changes?
err0r33
Profile Joined July 2016
38 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-03 21:01:53
October 03 2019 21:01 GMT
#14
Woaw.. that's some changes..
Kantuva
Profile Joined April 2010
Uruguay206 Posts
October 03 2019 21:25 GMT
#15
There are some really flavorful changes in there, rlly digging them 👀
@Kantuva | Mapmaker | TLMC Volunteer Admin | Join us on: https://mapcave.net/discord
Yonnua
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2331 Posts
October 03 2019 21:25 GMT
#16
Well that was a surprising set of changes. Feels like these combined will make zerg late game much more powerful, while making abusive adept builds in the mid-game stronger as well. Terran just feels much weaker after these changes.

I feel like they did exactly the opposite of what I was expecting in most cases.
LRSL 2014 Finalist! PartinG | Mvp | Bomber | Creator | NaNiwa | herO
MrShankly
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United Kingdom371 Posts
October 03 2019 21:27 GMT
#17
Hmmm im not exactly a starcraft expert. Glad that seem that they want to reduce power of air armies in general - other than the void ray I guess.

Air armies sooo boringgg
DONATE SC2 BETA KEY TO ME PLEASE
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-03 21:32:06
October 03 2019 21:28 GMT
#18
I'm not so sure about those infestor changes. I don't think 1 range is going to solve the issues with neural parasite. The infested Terran changes also are pretty crazy. Now each infestor can only cast 4 infested Terrans max, but each of those units does twice as much damage roughly and attacks about 20% faster. Given that often when ITs get spammed, some of them can't attack because they get blocked by other ITs, this might actually have the effect of making ITs even better since there will be less "overkill" on the number of ITs cast while still doing a huge amount of damage. It will also harassment with ITs even better because they will kill workers or targeted buildings faster with far fewer ITs needed.

edit: I also disagree with reverting the observer speed stuff. Given how big the maps have been the last few seasons, the increased speed seemed quite appropriate.

I do think the Nydus changes are good. This prevents the horrible abusive builds while still letting them be used lategame effectively.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3362 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-03 21:32:16
October 03 2019 21:28 GMT
#19
I don't really like the extra 8 damage from Zealots, especially when you see that clip where Zealots hit units that they aren't even slashing. Also we haven't seen an Upgrade that needs another Upgrade as a requirement, so that is a bit weird. Instead maybe give Zealots back it's 60 Shield points? Overall it's still a nerf, but at least Zealots won't be a total joke in the early game. 100 seconds is also a lot, especially when there now is 5 upgrades on the Twilight Council.

Love the Flux Vanes. Love the Adept change.
Tempest change is one of those that will be retracted because people realise Tempest have 2 armour and this Health change will really change it's survivability a whole lot. I hope instead of retracting this change when that time comes that they instead decrease the anti air range to 10, equal to that of it's other attack. Give it 40 dmg equal to that of it's other attack, so the anti air essentially becomes it's anti ground attack, but with the +vs massive. Tempest playstyle has always been a bit dull and I think this suits the unit better, also maybe then we don't have to have 150 hp Vikings, lol.

Also I wasn't sold on the cooldown on Nydus when it was mentioned by the community, but this post really made a good case for it, it's kinda stupid that if you kill the merging worm that the successive one comes even quicker.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
Ryu3600
Profile Joined January 2016
Canada469 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-03 21:31:31
October 03 2019 21:31 GMT
#20
Why the heck is the liberator change being suggested? the idea of it is nice but to lose 1 range for the grand total of not having to also buy a second starport and a tech lab is really really not worth it - this is such a bad way to implement such an amazing idea - cause this actually makes the fusion core also function as a science facility/academy from BW which is super cool. The thor change is not good because we don't have thors fighting heavy units in the air for sustained fights we want them to burst the opposing army as quickly as we can so stuff like tank friendly fire doesn't smash our thors too greatly from brood lords or so that a B.C can get its extra few seconds in for a TP away. The charge change while nice is basically reverting it back to 200/200 from before 2017 only making it take longer for no reason, and the raven change is the worst of all just remove interference matrix and give us something like PDD or seeker missile back (Not both though) and the movement speed for lower league Terran plays I guarantee you their ravens will just go even further forward ahead of the rest of the army and just die - It already happens in some games. And finally the worst change of all - The Viking change why in God's name would you want to give it another +15 hp... TvT is already mass Viking and the hp of the Viking is not the reason it loses to units like the corruptor or carrier. The Viking losses those fights because those options are either Tankier, Faster or outright do significantly more damage. Reducing the speed of corruptors while allowing Vikings to focus carriers instead of all shooting the same interceptor would be a better way to go about improving the Viking. But giving it more HP just makes TvT way more cancer than it already is - Especially when you realize that we don't have a great answer to Viking vs Viking like we did when it was raven Viking vs raven Viking (Sometimes the smaller army would win if they got the right missiles off) But static fights of har har I had 1 more Viking shooting I win now! Are really boring not to mention early game if all this goes through what's to stop people from skipping raven and just going marine tank Viking across the map and landing their Vikings on your stuff. The balance team I can tell is trying and all the other suggestions they did put forth (On the fence about the Infestor) are genuinely good ideas and cool add-ons but they are still not addressing issues of variety in gameplay, creating more fair lategame situations and allowing players to win the game outside of methods of coinflipping every game (Like Terrans did when they proxied every TvP in 2018)
Maru is the best Terran ever.
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