I would really like to know what metrics the balance team uses in order to decide what they change. Some of these decisions really boggle my mind...

In my opinion there is barely no game design reflection here, mostly minor patching with the aim of seeing if said changes will somehow balance things out, using upgrades as bandaids that just temporarily stop the slow bleeding this game suffers from.

When are these people going to come up with actually thoughtful ways of addressing the game state and whether the mechanics they allow or implement are going to be healthy for the competitive scene?

tigon_ridge

482 Posts

October 03 2019 21:44 GMT

#23

I like the proposed changes to nydus, BC, and infestors. I miiiight like the voidray change, as VR is pretty underutilized past early game, though I would prefer the upgrade to give +1 range rather than the proposed speed buff. Not sure about the other proposed changes.

Z3nith

485 Posts

October 03 2019 21:50 GMT

#24

That time warp change could actually be a huge change. Also loving the desire to increase the utility of voidrays.

Boggyb

2855 Posts

October 03 2019 21:56 GMT

#25

I like the shifting of where some upgrades are researched. That's pretty much the limit of nice things I can say about these changes. I have no problem with adding additional upgrades, but they should apply to units that don't have many or any upgrades and shouldn't just be something removed from the unit or an upgrade.

I guess they've given up on the post-Blizzcon patches being redesigns rather than just balance changes. Sadly, the race that has been a consistent design problem is the one that never really had significant design changes.

spectreusmc

United States25 Posts

October 03 2019 21:59 GMT

#26

I don't see how they think they've weakened the infestor at all...

Boggyb

2855 Posts

October 03 2019 22:11 GMT

#27

On October 04 2019 06:59 spectreusmc wrote:
I don't see how they think they've weakened the infestor at all...

If the Zerg is on the defensive, Protoss can engage, force the Zerg to pop infested terrans, then retreat. The problem is you'd have to do that half a dozen times and if you're on the defensive, you're even more screwed because Storm is even less effective against them than previously.

[F_]aths

Germany3947 Posts

October 03 2019 22:14 GMT

#28

I like that the suggested changes are not too ground-shaking. Don't even feel like a typical end-of-year patch. This means, SC2's gameplay future could be rather stable. Instead of stirring things up once a year, I would prefer an overall fixed balance, with patches only when necessary.

yoshi245

United States2974 Posts

October 03 2019 22:15 GMT

#29

What are they smoking over there? Some of these changes are just unusual.

Nakajin

Canada8990 Posts

October 03 2019 22:15 GMT

#30

Interesting change, I'm not sure about the infestor changes, but it's worth a shot.
Gonna edit this with my oppinion latter on, but for now:

Increased research duration of Adaptive Talons from 54 seconds to 57 seconds.

I miss Incontrol

Shuffleblade

Sweden1903 Posts

October 03 2019 22:17 GMT

#31

Zerg seems to be a little too powerful in the lategame, what is the move? Buff infestors....... Really? Terran uses BCs and zerg cant kill them for free with neural early enough, remove the upgrade. Buff the infested terrans so they are fewer but does double damage, this is pretty much a buff since their huge numbers often makes it so only a few of them can attack at a time. This is done to make them more susceptivble to splash but you buff their hp at the same time? That makes them less weak to aoe since they are tankier.....

The tradeoff between one less range on neural for not needing to research it can be either a buff or a nerf depending on the situation. This is not what was needed, neural needs a much more clear nerf.

I like the terran changes and the protoss changes seems... a mess? Zealots need double upgrades, that is just a bit too messy and convoluted (but maybe good for overall balance), adepts are fine because of EMP? Wtf, what does that even mean, are they saying that if protoss adepts all in the terran its fine because terran should obviously already have built ghosts AND finished upgrading enhanced shockwaves? How about buffing marines because zerg has chitinous plated ultras now...... That how crazy that line of thinking is.... Absolutely insane

tigon_ridge

482 Posts

October 03 2019 22:22 GMT

#32

On October 04 2019 07:11 Boggyb wrote:

Show nested quote +

The problem is you'd have to do that half a dozen times and if you're on the defensive, you're even more screwed because Storm is even less effective against them than previously.

They have overall less HP per energy spent. This allows you to much more easily wipe them out before they inflict their previous damage. It doesn't have to be just by storms, either.

Fran_

United States1024 Posts

October 03 2019 22:26 GMT

#33

I like the direction, I don't like the upgrade heavy balancing. And definitely not an upgrade that needs an upgrade: it doesn't feel clean.

THERIDDLER

Canada137 Posts

October 03 2019 22:30 GMT

#34

did not see the infestor buff coming

necrosexy

451 Posts

October 03 2019 22:32 GMT

#35

why are they nerfing the Raven with respect to one matchup? ...

infestor changes ... is this a joke? omg

dysenterymd

1250 Posts

October 03 2019 22:35 GMT

#36

I think zerg is strong right now, but I wonder how much of this issue could be ameliorated by mixing more small maps into the pool with more exposed expands. Players reach late game so fast these days, making it less safe to quickly expand/drone and having tighter defenses in general might help balance without adding a million upgrades.

leublix

493 Posts

October 03 2019 22:35 GMT

#37

They forgot that they wanted the power of offensive warp ins with the warp prism. I thought that would have been a good decision design wise (defender's advantage etc) but as a toss player I should be happy.

On October 04 2019 07:17 Shuffleblade wrote:
adepts are fine because of EMP? Wtf, what does that even mean, are they saying that if protoss adepts all in the terran its fine because terran should obviously already have built ghosts AND finished upgrading enhanced shockwaves? How about buffing marines because zerg has chitinous plated ultras now...... That how crazy that line of thinking is.... Absolutely insane

It's not about allins but maxing out on pure adept phoenix like in the good old days. Which emp definitely does very well against.

DreamlnCode

United Kingdom77 Posts

October 03 2019 22:37 GMT

#38

Very bold suggestions, it seems they are wanting to speed up parts of the game a little more.
I imagine these changes will go through intense testing before going live.

IshinShishi

Japan6156 Posts

October 03 2019 22:40 GMT

#39

??????

* No significant terran buffs other than the medivac upgrade (that we won't be seeing much)

* Trying really hard to butcher the battlecruiser in general, when the bc opening in TvZ isn't even that good.

* Meanwhile pretend to nerf zerg (nice free neural btw)

Great patch, back to TFT I go.

Deleted User 3420

24492 Posts

October 03 2019 22:42 GMT

#40

I feel like this patch "nerfs" zerg in small irrelevant ways, and then "rebalances" protoss in ways that will drastically nerf them.

Also those lurker changes look hilariously extreme to me. And do lurkers really need to be able to get 1 more range?