• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 04:22
CET 10:22
KST 18:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT28Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice0Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza1Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0258
StarCraft 2
General
Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza Terran AddOns placement
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) WardiTV Team League Season 10
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare
Brood War
General
It's March 3rd CasterMuse Youtube Recent recommended BW games Soma Explains: JD's Unrelenting Aggro vs FlaSh TvZ is the most complete match up
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues BWCL Season 64 Announcement The Casual Games of the Week Thread [LIVE] [S:21] ASL Season Open Day 1
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Diablo 2 thread Path of Exile Online Quake Live Config Editor Tool
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Just Watchers: Why Some Only…
TrAiDoS
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2659 users

Blizz: Proposed changes for post-BlizzCon patch 2019 - Pag…

Forum Index > SC2 General
642 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 33 Next All
Rider1
Profile Joined September 2019
Cuba2 Posts
October 04 2019 16:00 GMT
#121
I think it is better to lower the life and movement speed of the crushers before bringing the Vikings to life.
I also see that the speed of movement of the MEDIVAC is still bad because the landing of Marine delays the opponent a lot and that must have a risk.
I don't think that the observer's movement speed should be lowered because of how big the maps are and that the proto depends a lot on echos

Spirit_HUN
Profile Joined March 2018
24 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-04 16:06:19
October 04 2019 16:05 GMT
#122
- Infernal Pre-Igniter research cost decreased from 150/150 to 100/100
OK.
- High Impact Payload damage decreased from 40 (+15 vs Massive) to 25 (+10 vs Massive).
- High Impact Payload weapon cooldown decreased from 1.7 to 0.9.
Another massive buff to the amove thor ... With the brood lord nerf this will be really funny ... The real question is: why this thing has 2 types of anti air attack? Just remove the AoE anti air attack already. Mutas need to be usable again!
- Health increased from 135 to 150.
Funny. Another massive anti air buff to the terran ... What about corruptors? They are already trash compared to vikings! Noone cares ...
- Moved the Rapid Re-Ignition System upgrade from the Starport Tech Lab to the Fusion Core.
Ok, but this is an another reason to bring back mutas to TvZ.
Advanced Ballistics upgrade moved from the Starport Tech Lab to the Fusion Core.
OK.
- Interference Matrix energy cost increased from 50 energy to 75 energy.
- Interference Matrix duration increased from 8 seconds to 11 seconds.
- Raven movement speed increased from 3.85 to 4.13.
This unit needs redesign.
- Tactical Jump now stuns and puts the Battlecruiser into a 1 second vulnerability phase before it teleports.
- Tactical Jump cooldown increased from 71 seconds to 86 seconds.
1 second is not enough. Instead the cooldown nerf, you should merge the yamato and the jump cooldown together. So you can use 1 ability in every 71 sec.
- Duration decreased from 64 seconds to 63 seconds.
- Mules now always attempt to spawn on the side of minerals closest to a town hall.
MULES need restrictions but you made them even easier to use, ROFL.
- Infested Terran energy cost increased from 25 to 50.
Infested Terran health increased from 50 to 75.
Infested Swarm Egg health increased from 70 to 75.
The Infested Terran’s Gauss Rifle damage increased from 6 to 12.
The Infested Terran’s Infested Rockets damage increased from 14 to 24.
Infested Rockets now gain +2 per ranged weapon upgrade, up from +1.
Infested Rockets attack period decreased from 1.14 to 0.95.
Neural Parasite range decreased from 9 to 8.
Removed the Research Neural Parasite upgrade. Infestors now come with Neural Parasite by default.

You just changed the infestor, instead of nerfing it. LOL
Lurker Den build time decreased from 86 seconds to 57 seconds.
Lurker range decreased from 9 to 8.
New Upgrade found on the Lurker Den: Seismic Spines
Increases the Lurker’s range from 8 to 10.
Requirement: Hive
Research cost: 150/150.
Research duration: 57 seconds.
Increased research duration of Adaptive Talons from 54 seconds to 57 seconds.

LOL .Random lurker buff. Buff the trash brood lord instead.
- Broodling leash range decreased from 12 to 9.
Trash range, trash speed, no dps, no hp, high tech, high cost, no anti air. THX
Nydus Network and Nydus Worm initial unload delay increased from 0.18 to 0.36.
Nydus Network and Nydus Worm load period increased from 0.09 to 0.18.
Nydus Network and Nydus Worm unload period increased from 0.18 to 0.36.
New upgrade found on the Evolution Chamber: Secreted Coating
Reduces the Nydus Network and Nydus Worm’s initial unload delay from 0.36 to 0.18.
Reduces the Nydus Network and Nydus Worm’s load period from 0.18 to 0.09.
Reduces the Nydus Network and Nydus Worm’s unload period from 0.36 to 0.18.
Requirement: Hive.
Research cost: 100/100.
Research duration: 57 seconds.
Summon Nydus Worm ability cooldown increased from 0 to 14.

Nydus is the only zerg early game agressive option vs other races. Dont nerf it.

And ... they just killed protoss ...



WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26304 Posts
October 04 2019 16:14 GMT
#123
On October 05 2019 00:34 Sombre wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2019 00:30 lorestarcraft wrote:
Bring back Khydarian Amulet.


In other news, the return of San Zenith! Artosis swallowing swords intensifies

*Man Zenith
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
October 04 2019 16:15 GMT
#124
On October 05 2019 01:05 Spirit_HUN wrote:
- Infernal Pre-Igniter research cost decreased from 150/150 to 100/100
OK.
- High Impact Payload damage decreased from 40 (+15 vs Massive) to 25 (+10 vs Massive).
- High Impact Payload weapon cooldown decreased from 1.7 to 0.9.
Another massive buff to the amove thor ... With the brood lord nerf this will be really funny ... The real question is: why this thing has 2 types of anti air attack? Just remove the AoE anti air attack already. Mutas need to be usable again!
- Health increased from 135 to 150.
Funny. Another massive anti air buff to the terran ... What about corruptors? They are already trash compared to vikings! Noone cares ...
- Moved the Rapid Re-Ignition System upgrade from the Starport Tech Lab to the Fusion Core.
Ok, but this is an another reason to bring back mutas to TvZ.
Advanced Ballistics upgrade moved from the Starport Tech Lab to the Fusion Core.
OK.
- Interference Matrix energy cost increased from 50 energy to 75 energy.
- Interference Matrix duration increased from 8 seconds to 11 seconds.
- Raven movement speed increased from 3.85 to 4.13.
This unit needs redesign.
- Tactical Jump now stuns and puts the Battlecruiser into a 1 second vulnerability phase before it teleports.
- Tactical Jump cooldown increased from 71 seconds to 86 seconds.
1 second is not enough. Instead the cooldown nerf, you should merge the yamato and the jump cooldown together. So you can use 1 ability in every 71 sec.
- Duration decreased from 64 seconds to 63 seconds.
- Mules now always attempt to spawn on the side of minerals closest to a town hall.
MULES need restrictions but you made them even easier to use, ROFL.
- Infested Terran energy cost increased from 25 to 50.
Infested Terran health increased from 50 to 75.
Infested Swarm Egg health increased from 70 to 75.
The Infested Terran’s Gauss Rifle damage increased from 6 to 12.
The Infested Terran’s Infested Rockets damage increased from 14 to 24.
Infested Rockets now gain +2 per ranged weapon upgrade, up from +1.
Infested Rockets attack period decreased from 1.14 to 0.95.
Neural Parasite range decreased from 9 to 8.
Removed the Research Neural Parasite upgrade. Infestors now come with Neural Parasite by default.

You just changed the infestor, instead of nerfing it. LOL
Lurker Den build time decreased from 86 seconds to 57 seconds.
Lurker range decreased from 9 to 8.
New Upgrade found on the Lurker Den: Seismic Spines
Increases the Lurker’s range from 8 to 10.
Requirement: Hive
Research cost: 150/150.
Research duration: 57 seconds.
Increased research duration of Adaptive Talons from 54 seconds to 57 seconds.

LOL .Random lurker buff. Buff the trash brood lord instead.
- Broodling leash range decreased from 12 to 9.
Trash range, trash speed, no dps, no hp, high tech, high cost, no anti air. THX
Nydus Network and Nydus Worm initial unload delay increased from 0.18 to 0.36.
Nydus Network and Nydus Worm load period increased from 0.09 to 0.18.
Nydus Network and Nydus Worm unload period increased from 0.18 to 0.36.
New upgrade found on the Evolution Chamber: Secreted Coating
Reduces the Nydus Network and Nydus Worm’s initial unload delay from 0.36 to 0.18.
Reduces the Nydus Network and Nydus Worm’s load period from 0.18 to 0.09.
Reduces the Nydus Network and Nydus Worm’s unload period from 0.36 to 0.18.
Requirement: Hive.
Research cost: 100/100.
Research duration: 57 seconds.
Summon Nydus Worm ability cooldown increased from 0 to 14.

Nydus is the only zerg early game agressive option vs other races. Dont nerf it.

And ... they just killed protoss ...





lol
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
October 04 2019 16:16 GMT
#125
I gotta say splitting everything into upgrades just feels kinda shitty. Especially when they’re basically just being stripped from the unit to begin with. Would be more interested in seeing an effort made to scale back on infinity upgrades as a solution.

Especially for Protoss I’d rather see changing HP/Shield values over just moving a chunk of Shield onto an upgrade. Especially since there’s a discrepancy between how armor upgrades effect each Heath value that could impact the way the unit works at multiple phases of the game in a more fluid way.

It’d probably be trickier to do it this way but it’d feel a lot more elegant.

Ditto to just making the Infestor more supply inefficient, much simpler change.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
v5872012
Profile Joined May 2018
35 Posts
October 04 2019 17:12 GMT
#126
Protoss late-game units need to be buffed
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16055 Posts
October 04 2019 17:49 GMT
#127
On October 05 2019 00:25 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:
these rough ideas don't make a good impression. Nothing in their ideas is innovative or even clever. Just tweaking small things here and there instead of looking for creative ways to improve game design and change the way matches are played. Seems lazy and uninspiring.

Why should they make bigger design changes if the game is great the way it is?
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Vazalemma
Profile Joined March 2017
Estonia18 Posts
October 04 2019 17:56 GMT
#128
Right now, it looks like the Mothership serves a relatively weak role in PvZ matchups. A singular viper with a singular abduct can yoink that 400/400 massive unit over with ease and then shoot it down with 2-3 volleys using corruptors or even neural it with an infestor to cloak your own zerg army. The Mothership should be at the back end of the army to stay alive and cloak that army, but also it needs to go to the front to cast its spells, so the Mothership doesn't seem to have a place. The protoss is having its bank depleted that way and the zerg doesn't get punished for it too much.

I suggest a new change: abducting a Mothership only abducts it somewhere between 30-50% of the distance that a normal unit gets abducted (exact value yet to be determined). That way, the zerg needs a bit more micro and commitment if they really want to get the Mothership, and the protoss has more of a chance to save that unit and to also punish the zerg for that maneuver. That should even up the trades a bit and gives the Mothership more chance to shine.

Thoughts?
You're at max supply. Send your army to it's death.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-04 18:41:36
October 04 2019 18:38 GMT
#129
On October 05 2019 02:56 Vazalemma wrote:
Right now, it looks like the Mothership serves a relatively weak role in PvZ matchups. A singular viper with a singular abduct can yoink that 400/400 massive unit over with ease and then shoot it down with 2-3 volleys using corruptors or even neural it with an infestor to cloak your own zerg army. The Mothership should be at the back end of the army to stay alive and cloak that army, but also it needs to go to the front to cast its spells, so the Mothership doesn't seem to have a place. The protoss is having its bank depleted that way and the zerg doesn't get punished for it too much.

I suggest a new change: abducting a Mothership only abducts it somewhere between 30-50% of the distance that a normal unit gets abducted (exact value yet to be determined). That way, the zerg needs a bit more micro and commitment if they really want to get the Mothership, and the protoss has more of a chance to save that unit and to also punish the zerg for that maneuver. That should even up the trades a bit and gives the Mothership more chance to shine.

Thoughts?

Pretty good idea. I would just add it to the massive tag, since pulling any of those units out of position by 3-4.5 tiles, while not being a free kill, makes them a lot more vulnerable. Maybe slow the yoink speed by a certain amount as well, and have concurrent yoinks(unsure on current interaction) interrupt movement so you can't just stack 2 vipers and instantly pull 9 tiles.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
General_Winter
Profile Joined February 2011
United States719 Posts
October 04 2019 19:31 GMT
#130
The change that PvZ really needs?

Cannons get +1 armor and +1 range.

Forces Zerg to stop going hatch first nine out of ten games and start moving to something like six out of ten games which significantly reduces their average midgame economic advantage and by extension delays transition to hive tech.

Allows P to take spread out expansions in the late game without being cold to ling run bys. You need to build the cannons and invest in defense, but if you do, that defense will do something.

Plus, the public wants to watch more cannon rushes.
pissinmyhand
Profile Joined July 2019
5 Posts
October 04 2019 19:32 GMT
#131
how about we just make it so mothership cant be pulled or neuraled
Dave4
Profile Joined August 2018
494 Posts
October 04 2019 20:37 GMT
#132
This is awesome, good changes Blizzard I look forward to seeing it in action. I personally love the period immediately after big changes - lots of innovation
stilt
Profile Joined October 2012
France2754 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-04 20:50:22
October 04 2019 20:46 GMT
#133
Bl range nerf is actually huge.
But well, let's wait a bit until people realizing it. Lurkers might be just better in late game.

That say, there is not a lot done to encourage Terran bio vs Z, too bad.
Trozz
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3456 Posts
October 04 2019 20:47 GMT
#134
Can we shake up maps?
The formula's all the same.
I miss the weird maps.

Some units made worse.
Not as hype as last year's patch.
Better luck next year.
A build is not a guess, an estimation or a hunch, a feeling, or a foolish intuition. A build is a dependable, unwavering, unarguably accurate, portrayer of your ambition.
MrShankly
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United Kingdom371 Posts
October 04 2019 21:21 GMT
#135
Would be cool if there was a thread where only pro's gave their thoughts.

I would be interested to know what good players think.
DONATE SC2 BETA KEY TO ME PLEASE
GrandSmurf
Profile Joined July 2003
Netherlands462 Posts
October 04 2019 21:52 GMT
#136
On October 05 2019 06:21 MrShankly wrote:
Would be cool if there was a thread where only pro's gave their thoughts.

I would be interested to know what good players think.


yes, god forbid casual wood league plebs want to enjoy the game too.
One time that happened and I just stopped everything, selected the offending SCV, hit Cancel, moved it over to my Barracks, made a Marine, had the Marine shoot it to death, then left the game.
SC-Shield
Profile Joined December 2018
Bulgaria837 Posts
October 04 2019 22:06 GMT
#137
So if zealot is a core unit, why is it nerfed? Didn't Blizzard say they rarely change core units such as lings, marines, etc? Why is protoss an exception?
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12911 Posts
October 04 2019 22:19 GMT
#138
The cool thing about this patch tho, that guarantees WCS 2020 right?
Maybe it’ll be a lighter version tho
WriterMaru
fLyiNgDroNe
Profile Joined September 2005
Belgium4041 Posts
October 04 2019 22:34 GMT
#139
On October 05 2019 02:49 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2019 00:25 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:
these rough ideas don't make a good impression. Nothing in their ideas is innovative or even clever. Just tweaking small things here and there instead of looking for creative ways to improve game design and change the way matches are played. Seems lazy and uninspiring.

Why should they make bigger design changes if the game is great the way it is?

lol now you are just petty
Drone is a way of living
Boggyb
Profile Joined January 2017
2855 Posts
October 04 2019 22:49 GMT
#140
On October 05 2019 04:32 pissinmyhand wrote:
how about we just make it so mothership cant be pulled or neuraled

Or better yet just delete Abduct and Neural Parasite.
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 33 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 15h 38m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 246
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 26857
Britney 20144
Calm 19366
Bisu 1810
Hyuk 1041
actioN 442
firebathero 398
Mini 267
Pusan 246
Leta 205
[ Show more ]
PianO 134
Mong 98
Light 97
Dewaltoss 89
Soulkey 67
ToSsGirL 56
Free 33
sSak 25
Backho 23
910 23
JulyZerg 22
GoRush 14
Sacsri 11
Rush 9
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
SilentControl 8
Dota 2
XaKoH 583
NeuroSwarm90
League of Legends
JimRising 495
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss697
olofmeister332
Other Games
summit1g8828
Liquid`RaSZi758
ceh9537
WinterStarcraft236
Mew2King93
crisheroes88
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick660
Counter-Strike
PGL200
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 12
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 55
• LUISG 14
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki13
• iopq 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt1454
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
15h 38m
Replay Cast
23h 38m
Replay Cast
1d 14h
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Ultimate Battle
3 days
Light vs ZerO
WardiTV Winter Champion…
3 days
Classic vs Nicoract
herO vs YoungYakov
ByuN vs Gerald
Clem vs Krystianer
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
4 days
MaxPax vs Spirit
Bunny vs Rogue
Cure vs SHIN
Solar vs Zoun
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-02
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
WardiTV Winter 2026
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.