EPTAnd WCS2015 VODs can't be searched for too.
However you can find hidden VODs through liquipedia's link.
Blizzard Minitrue?
Blizzard hides VODs of WCS 2014/2015 Global Final
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
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RealityTheGreat
China564 Posts
And WCS2015 VODs can't be searched for too. However you can find hidden VODs through liquipedia's link. Blizzard Minitrue? | ||
digmouse
China6329 Posts
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RealityTheGreat
China564 Posts
On August 25 2019 20:38 digmouse wrote: Life's WCS champion was stripped and his flag was gone from the SC2 stage at recent Blizzcons, it's not that surprising. But why Blizzard hide the whole tournament? And I found that 2014RB Washington's VOD parts can't be searched too.Only two long video(10 hours and 5 hours) of live streaming can be searched. | ||
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lechatnoir
386 Posts
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KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
sad to see the best player ever lose his titles that he rightfully won. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25270 Posts
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fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
To elaborate, we can judge Life and his character morally for what he has done, which is quite despicable and a betrayal of gaming etiquette. But at the same time we should separate the player from the man at least in terms of his games. Life's gameplay, when he was on top of it, was remarkable and for a time he truly was the best player. His games should still be view able as, for better or worse, they are part of SC2 history. Even if you despise the man, you can admire the and what he's done you can admire the player. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25270 Posts
On August 25 2019 22:29 Destructicon wrote: I'm not happy with this decision. To elaborate, we can judge Life and his character morally for what he has done, which is quite despicable and a betrayal of gaming etiquette. But at the same time we should separate the player from the man at least in terms of his games. Life's gameplay, when he was on top of it, was remarkable and for a time he truly was the best player. His games should still be view able as, for better or worse, they are part of SC2 history. Even if you despise the man, you can admire the and what he's done you can admire the player. I’m largely OK with him being Voldemort-esque in terms of contemporary broadcasts, erasing the actual past does a disservice to both fans of the game, but also to his rivals back in the day. Guys like TaeJa and MMA had some of their most iconic series against Life, it detracts from them as well to just delete anything Life related. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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dalecooper
56 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
But removing the vods of games is just annoying. Even the final sOs won? one of the most hype series in all of sc2. Erasing part of sc2 history is wrong. It would be a crime if they got the Life vs DreaM matches removed. Or the Life vs Mvp/Mari/Naniwa/PartinG finals. edit: so it seems the 2014 matches are private where the 2015 ones are simply unlisted (can be viewed if you have the link) | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
we should be talkin bout how bisu gonna come back and revitalize the girls in the bw scene ok. | ||
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RealityTheGreat
China564 Posts
On August 25 2019 22:15 Wombat_NI wrote: There’s no VODs of these or are they just unlisted from searching? WCS2014 VODs which include Life had been closed(can not watch, can not download). Other VODs are hidden from search engine of Youtube | ||
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RealityTheGreat
China564 Posts
On August 25 2019 23:31 -Kyo- wrote: This was done a while ago wasnt it? Not sure we really need another thread about this topic. we should be talkin bout how bisu gonna come back and revitalize the girls in the bw scene ok. Emm, I don't know about it, I was searching for video material and found this. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15957 Posts
On August 25 2019 23:31 -Kyo- wrote: This was done a while ago wasnt it? Not sure we really need another thread about this topic. we should be talkin bout how bisu gonna come back and revitalize the girls in the bw scene ok. This is certainly quite recent. I remember re-watching his series vs TaeJa and MMA maybe a year ago or so | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25270 Posts
On August 26 2019 00:01 Charoisaur wrote: This is stupid This is certainly quite recent. I remember re-watching his series vs TaeJa and MMA maybe a year ago or so Yeah I did as well, relatively recently. To pull these from searchability just, sucks. One thing SC2 has over BW is how easy it is to find good quality VODs in English of basically all you could want to. It removes history from the game, it also harms other players as well. MMA’s post peak runs, Taeja may have not won a GSL but his series’ with Life still are testament to him being amongst the very best. Take away that context and you take away the legacy of other players too. Despite having a great career afterwards anyway, Bisu’s defining moment, part of his nickname etc was him dismantling Savior, imagine if all those VODs were pulled? I think it’s perfectly appropriate to not mention Life in current broadcasts, but to pull the history seems wrong. Us veterans may still want to admire his peak play, or new folks might be directed to it. If I watch the Tour de France now, commentators don’t refer to Lance, or his 7 being the record, but I can still go back and watch his duels with Jan Ulrich et al if I want. I feel that’s a decent balance between punishing a player who really damaged the overall scene, vs completely erasing the past. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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NinjaNight
428 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On August 26 2019 00:47 outscar wrote: This 100% unfair to delete, erase Life's accomplishments. Kid won all of those before throwing some matches at KeSPA cup. In all other big sports people do 10x worse things and get away with it like nothing happened. He already got his punishment, why destroy past? Stupid BS. It's absolutely fair to Life, it's not fair to everybody else involved who did nothing wrong; they merely played and/or watched the game. | ||
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Devangel
Russian Federation66 Posts
 2015 Finals and Live vs TaeJa on King Sejong are the biggest losses. For some reason I can watch 2015 games, but 2014 games with Life are indeed blocked.I hope this will be reversed or maybe someone has saved an archive and re-uploads these marvelous games we once experienced, just like with Husky's Bronze League Heroes  | ||
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necrosexy
451 Posts
On August 26 2019 01:30 Cyro wrote: It's absolutely fair to Life, it's not fair to everybody else involved who did nothing wrong; they merely played and/or watched the game. you would have a point if he cheated to obtain those titles | ||
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Hunta15
United States81 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
the people pretending they're angry about this were never going to go back and watch those games, just something for bored people to talk about | ||
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Kitai
United States873 Posts
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SoupedUpHellion
20 Posts
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On August 26 2019 02:38 brickrd wrote: fake outrage about rightfully shaming a cheater, not an issue, not important, affects nothing the people pretending they're angry about this were never going to go back and watch those games, just something for bored people to talk about Life is not a cheater, never was | ||
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Ingvar
Russian Federation421 Posts
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fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
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stilt
France2749 Posts
Anyway, this "I erase stuffs because I don't like it" is both a pitiful and dangerous mentality. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On August 26 2019 02:38 brickrd wrote: fake outrage about rightfully shaming a cheater, not an issue, not important, affects nothing the people pretending they're angry about this were never going to go back and watch those games, just something for bored people to talk about It's not shaming, it's entirely removing them from the history. That's very different. As for point 2: I've gone back and watched Life vs Taeja almost every year since it was played. There were some amazing games there that stand out in even the most brief glance over the history of SC2. Very, very strongly disagree with this decision, and I hope the internet does its thing and pops up enough copies that those videos don't just get erased. | ||
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RealityTheGreat
China564 Posts
On August 26 2019 04:05 outscar wrote: Ppl need to download all tournaments and make a torrent or something for them. I remember there was a topic with all OSL/MSL archived back then for BW, if you care for SC2 you should do too. Blizz isn't same Blizz anymore so expect anything. It will be a huge task. | ||
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RealityTheGreat
China564 Posts
On August 25 2019 23:43 RealityTheGreat wrote: WCS2014 VODs which include Life had been closed(can not watch, can not download). Other VODs are hidden from search engine of Youtube. There are some unofficial uploaded VODs. It is lucky that gomtv doesn't lock Life's VOD. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25270 Posts
On August 26 2019 04:21 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: It's not shaming, it's entirely removing them from the history. That's very different. As for point 2: I've gone back and watched Life vs Taeja almost every year since it was played. There were some amazing games there that stand out in even the most brief glance over the history of SC2. Very, very strongly disagree with this decision, and I hope the internet does its thing and pops up enough copies that those videos don't just get erased. Indeed. It doesn’t just take away from Life to scrub these VODs, but from looking back at the careers of other players in the scene too. For every post saying Taeja was overrated, well I can go watch peak Taeja vs a Life at the top of his powers in one of the best series we’ve had. Maybe sOs wants to show his kids/grandkids when he won a Blizzcon, if they do remove Life related VODs to shame Life does it really accomplish that or does it just erase too much of Starcraft’s history as collateral damage? I’m fine with the omertà in mentioning the guy in current broadcasts, but removing old VODs stops fans from watching old favourites and from the history of the scene being properly preserved. | ||
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Sworn
Canada920 Posts
On August 26 2019 04:05 outscar wrote: Ppl need to download all tournaments and make a torrent or something for them. I remember there was a topic with all OSL/MSL archived back then for BW, if you care for SC2 you should do too. Blizz isn't same Blizz anymore so expect anything. The SC2Vods channel on Twitch has almost all of the SC2 tournaments and some of the BW ones available as well. I believe there is even torrents for each of the tournaments available now (although all together its multiple terabytes). | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On August 26 2019 00:47 outscar wrote: This 100% unfair to delete, erase Life's accomplishments. Kid won all of those before throwing some matches at KeSPA cup. In all other big sports people do 10x worse things and get away with it like nothing happened. He already got his punishment, why destroy past? Stupid BS. Completely normal to strip him of his titles. What he's done is very harmful to any modestly-sized competitive game. He was one of the best players in the game and tainted its legitimacy. But the censoring of VODs I'm skeptical about. Doesn't really serve much purpose. And obviously it's unfair to the other players. People have to understand that eSports are not like mainstream sports in that they cannot take many blows to their legitimacy (via cheating scandals and the like). Everybody will continue to play and watch football. Nobody cares if some high-profile games were fixed. Starcraft in comparison is ridiculously small, one of its best assets is its competitiveness, if you remove that you kind of kill the eSport. The stripping of the titles is the scene's way of saying "don't fuck with our game, nobody will glorify you for it, we'll make sure of that". | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25270 Posts
On August 26 2019 08:44 ZenithM wrote: Completely normal to strip him of his titles. What he's done is very harmful to any modestly-sized competitive game. He was one of the best players in the game and tainted its legitimacy. But the censoring of VODs I'm skeptical about. Doesn't really serve much purpose. And obviously it's unfair to the other players. People have to understand that eSports are not like mainstream sports in that they cannot take many blows to their legitimacy (via cheating scandals and the like). Everybody will continue to play football. Nobody cares if some high-profile games were fixed. Starcraft in comparison is ridiculously small, one of its best assets is its competitiveness, if you remove that you kind of kill the eSports. Yeah I tend to agree here. Cheating scandals don’t significantly dent sponsor money in other more established events, be it the Tour de France or the Olympics. They’re a pretty dang big deal in something as niche as competitive Starcraft. Which we’ve now sadly seen twice really impact the appetite of sponsors to be involved. Especially after the Brood War match-fixing scandal, the damage it did, to fall into a trap you’d already seen the consequences of. When you’re already earning bank as a star in a healthy scene? Something like Proleague is way more vulnerable to the prospect of throwing matches than big individual tournaments, and that’s the area, the breeding ground for Korean talent that was sacrificed ultimately here. Maybe they pull out anyway but it’s surely a factor. A complete disregard for this, his peers, the fans of the scene worldwide, absolutely exorcise Life from the scene now. However don’t prevent the fans from watching the VoDs of a great player playing against the best of the time. That’s part of Starcraft history, part of our shared experience watching a young phenom mature and face off against the other elite. It’s a sad downfall sure, but why deprive everyone of at least flipping back time to a period where we could just admire one of the best players to ever play the game? It doesn’t further punish Life really, just fans, it punishes players who played great series against him if the idea is just to scrub any VODs he played in. ‘I beat Life at Blizzcon son.’ ‘Who’s Life?’ I’m absolutely against this process. I’ve watched the game since launch. Whenever the mood hits me I’ll watch classic series from the past, Mvp vs Squirtle frequently. Oh I can’t watch Mvp’s GSL run and the epic finals vs Life now? With how it feeds into Mvp’s story and how he almost claimed that GSL with banjaxed wrists, guile and tailored builds but yet came up short ultimately? That’s a big part of the Mvp story, not even Life’s so much. How do you tell these stories without the context? Which is what will happen if the policy going forward is just to scrub Life VODs | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
he cheated the system to get free money instead of earning it by winning fairly. cheating the game engine by hacking isn't the only way to "cheat." just like you can cheat on a partner you can also cheat the league, cheat fans, etc. he's a cheat. anyway like i said no one actually cares that much about this, it's just a bunch of thought experiment moralizing. this literally affects absolutely nothing. the "what ifs" are insane, if sOs wants to show his kids the vods one day then im sure he can easily get them lmao. i'm more concerned about things that affect the real world than whether recordings of video games are hosted by a company hilarious that anyone can get worked up over things like this when real people suffer in the real world | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25270 Posts
On August 26 2019 09:26 brickrd wrote: he cheated the system to get free money instead of earning it by winning fairly. cheating the game engine by hacking isn't the only way to "cheat." just like you can cheat on a partner you can also cheat the league, cheat fans, etc. he's a cheat. anyway like i said no one actually cares that much about this, it's just a bunch of thought experiment moralizing. this literally affects absolutely nothing. the "what ifs" are insane, if sOs wants to show his kids the vods one day then im sure he can easily get them lmao. i'm more concerned about things that affect the real world than whether recordings of video games are hosted by a company hilarious that anyone can get worked up over things like this when real people suffer in the real world Well people care if it’s their decades long hobby that they’ve invested a lot in, doesn’t really matter if it’s insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Sure Life’s VODs being pulled are relativistically small when the Amazon is burning, or global poverty is a thing or whatever. As an independent phenomenon, well you’re just arguing that it doesn’t matter because x is more important, not over the actual decision being made here or whether it’s appropriate or not. If expunging everything related to him is appropriate, argue as to why, the whole ‘something worse is happening in the world’ argument is bullshit, nobody’s arguing that SC>real life considerations | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15957 Posts
On August 26 2019 09:26 brickrd wrote: he cheated the system to get free money instead of earning it by winning fairly. cheating the game engine by hacking isn't the only way to "cheat." just like you can cheat on a partner you can also cheat the league, cheat fans, etc. he's a cheat. anyway like i said no one actually cares that much about this, it's just a bunch of thought experiment moralizing. this literally affects absolutely nothing. the "what ifs" are insane, if sOs wants to show his kids the vods one day then im sure he can easily get them lmao. i'm more concerned about things that affect the real world than whether recordings of video games are hosted by a company hilarious that anyone can get worked up over things like this when real people suffer in the real world Says the guy who gets worked up over other people complaining about whether recordings are hosted by a company or not when real people suffer in the real world. | ||
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blunderfulguy
United States1415 Posts
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SuperFanBoy
New Zealand1068 Posts
Also what hell is up with this misinformation and defamation on these forums? People can make false statements about players with no repercussions? Life never cheated to win, he threw some games which he was favoured to win aka match fixing. All his tournament wins were legitimate, he never won any trophy by cheating. Lastly, Life was a kid who was manipulated. It's basically blackmail.. For those who don't know how the match fixing happens, read this thread https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/532108-stork-on-how-sc2-match-fixing- | ||
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necrosexy
451 Posts
On August 26 2019 09:26 brickrd wrote: he cheated the system to get free money instead of earning it by winning fairly. cheating the game engine by hacking isn't the only way to "cheat." just like you can cheat on a partner you can also cheat the league, cheat fans, etc. he's a cheat. cheating has a very specific meaning in this context, you babbling fool User was warned for this post. | ||
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baiesradu
Romania150 Posts
I find it very similar to what China or any other country has been doing about history facts they don't like: if you delete it from the archive it will not have happened. If it works or not depends on how much people care about those records. In the end it's their videos they are deleting . Their property they can do with it whatever they want. | ||
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
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dgwow
Canada1024 Posts
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RealityTheGreat
China564 Posts
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
On August 26 2019 12:33 Solar424 wrote: The damage Life and the other match fixers did to SC2 can't be calculated, I won't hold anything against Blizzard for doing their part to scrub them from SC2's history. Essentially my thoughts, with a lot less graciousness and more language that would probably get me temp banned to the people still defending him. | ||
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16701 Posts
On August 26 2019 12:51 dgwow wrote: You won't learn from previous mistakes by trying to hide them. Oh well. (it's like the confederate statue debate) Led Zeppelin is this bizarre kind of celebration of the Hindenburg disaster. And yet no one would argue the deaths of 36 people is a cause for celebration. Its weird how all these rules get created about what we're supposed to remember ... and how we are committing a "thought crime" by thinking about something.. anything.. in a way that goes against whatever the current mob mentality is. I think they should leave the videos up and include an edited-in message that states Life was caught match fixing. Match fixing is a part of competitive Starcraft. Let's not pretend we are living in some imaginary perfect world. | ||
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GreasedUpDeafGuy
United States398 Posts
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GreasedUpDeafGuy
United States398 Posts
On August 26 2019 12:33 Solar424 wrote: The damage Life and the other match fixers did to SC2 can't be calculated, I won't hold anything against Blizzard for doing their part to scrub them from SC2's history. it's probably in the 2 digit millions for sc2. What it did to BW was far more devastating. It really helped kill the game. Still bad in both though | ||
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stilt
France2749 Posts
On August 26 2019 09:26 brickrd wrote: he cheated the system to get free money instead of earning it by winning fairly. cheating the game engine by hacking isn't the only way to "cheat." just like you can cheat on a partner you can also cheat the league, cheat fans, etc. he's a cheat. anyway like i said no one actually cares that much about this, it's just a bunch of thought experiment moralizing. this literally affects absolutely nothing. the "what ifs" are insane, if sOs wants to show his kids the vods one day then im sure he can easily get them lmao. i'm more concerned about things that affect the real world than whether recordings of video games are hosted by a company hilarious that anyone can get worked up over things like this when real people suffer in the real world But he didn't cheat the system this time and you got robbed. The last argument is so poor, real people are suffering on the real world so why are you not helping instead of writting silly stuff on a sc2 forum ? Btw, I would be grateful if you try to think just about this "experimenting moralizing" stuff. You're erasing history not because something shameful has been done but because YOU have done something shameful. Negationnists, dictatures who commited massacrer, that's their method, gratz for validating them. It's hard to describe the disgust I have to read all these parangon of morality, you can smell all the hypocrisie and resentment from miles. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
"match fixing will not be tolerated, if you do it, we will erase you" | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
It is so stupid, how do we make sure no one matchfixes again? How about erasing that matchfixing ever happened so no one knows the consequences and someone inevetiably will make the same mistakes all over again. You can't erase history and send a warning signal at the same time, its a contradiction. To deny his existence is a mistake that closes the door on discussing what actually happened and how to prevent it in the future. Do not talk about Life, do not include Life in lists and so on but for the love of starcraft keep the history alive so it will not just be repeated. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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SuperFanBoy
New Zealand1068 Posts
I believe he had dropped out of school to pursue being a pro gamer so I don't think he will have much of work opportunities as education is everything over there. On top of that, googling his name in Korean returns his wiki which talks about his arrest etc. and in Korea they don't believe in redemption or second chances so I assume he is screwed for life. Also were there any reports as to what happened to the people who had manipulated and bullied him into match fixing? I don't remember reading anything about it. Edit - I just read a Korean article, apparently he was sentenced to 1 year jail and 3 years probation. So I assume he is still on probation, ending this year. | ||
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
On August 26 2019 19:57 SuperFanBoy wrote: Does anyone actually know what happened to Life? I feel bad for him as he screwed up his whole life due to one very bad decision at age 16. I believe he had dropped out of school to pursue being a pro gamer so I don't think he will have much of work opportunities as education is everything over there. On top of that, googling his name in Korean returns his wiki which talks about his arrest etc. and in Korea they don't believe in redemption or second chances so I assume he is screwed for life. Also were there any reports as to what happened to the people who had manipulated and bullied him into match fixing? I don't remember reading anything about it. Edit - I just read a Korean article, apparently he was sentenced to 1 year jail and 3 years probation. So I assume he is still on probation, ending this year. Some says that he is running a ring for ranking up overwatch players. I just saw it on reddit. Will post the link here if i got on pc | ||
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DSK
England1110 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On August 26 2019 17:25 stilt wrote: the fact that you're comparing clips of video games being taken offline to fascist dictators massacring human beings proves my point exactly 100% correct, thanks!But he didn't cheat the system this time and you got robbed. The last argument is so poor, real people are suffering on the real world so why are you not helping instead of writting silly stuff on a sc2 forum ? Btw, I would be grateful if you try to think just about this "experimenting moralizing" stuff. You're erasing history not because something shameful has been done but because YOU have done something shameful. Negationnists, dictatures who commited massacrer, that's their method, gratz for validating them. It's hard to describe the disgust I have to read all these parangon of morality, you can smell all the hypocrisie and resentment from miles. | ||
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necrosexy
451 Posts
On August 26 2019 19:57 SuperFanBoy wrote: Does anyone actually know what happened to Life? I feel bad for him as he screwed up his whole life due to one very bad decision at age 16. I believe he had dropped out of school to pursue being a pro gamer so I don't think he will have much of work opportunities as education is everything over there. On top of that, googling his name in Korean returns his wiki which talks about his arrest etc. and in Korea they don't believe in redemption or second chances so I assume he is screwed for life. Also were there any reports as to what happened to the people who had manipulated and bullied him into match fixing? I don't remember reading anything about it. Edit - I just read a Korean article, apparently he was sentenced to 1 year jail and 3 years probation. So I assume he is still on probation, ending this year. the mob has their scapegoat for the decline of sc2 despite the fact that Blizzard is the culprit | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16701 Posts
On August 27 2019 08:45 necrosexy wrote: the mob has their scapegoat for the decline of sc2 despite the fact that Blizzard is the culprit Nah, RTS went the way of the dot eating maze game. Blaming Blizzard for the decline in consumers' demand for RTS games would be like blaming Namco, the makers of Pac-man, for the decline of the Dot-Eating-Maze Game genre. Consumers just changed their preferences... no one to blame. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25270 Posts
On August 27 2019 08:45 necrosexy wrote: the mob has their scapegoat for the decline of sc2 despite the fact that Blizzard is the culprit Oh noes not the mob. Is this the same Blizzard that basically keeps the competitive scene afloat since Kespa pulled out or what? I disagree vehemently with pulling Life’s VODs in this sense. How’s he a scapegoat for an actual crime he committed that was detrimental to the sponsor confidence in the scene? B teamers earning fuck all money, while not entirely excusable well yeah the pull is understandable. Guys at the top of the game earning good money being involved in such things really, not so much. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On August 27 2019 09:21 Wombat_NI wrote: Oh noes not the mob. Is this the same Blizzard that basically keeps the competitive scene afloat since Kespa pulled out or what? I disagree vehemently with pulling Life’s VODs in this sense. How’s he a scapegoat for an actual crime he committed that was detrimental to the sponsor confidence in the scene? B teamers earning fuck all money, while not entirely excusable well yeah the pull is understandable. Guys at the top of the game earning good money being involved in such things really, not so much. Life didn't kill the SC2 though. KeSPA pulled away because SC2 isn't that huge as Blizzard was hoping for and Blizzard didn't have any other choice than support it because a collapse would be a PR disaster | ||
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kajtarp
Hungary483 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On August 26 2019 19:57 SuperFanBoy wrote: Does anyone actually know what happened to Life? I feel bad for him as he screwed up his whole life due to one very bad decision at age 16. I believe he had dropped out of school to pursue being a pro gamer so I don't think he will have much of work opportunities as education is everything over there. On top of that, googling his name in Korean returns his wiki which talks about his arrest etc. and in Korea they don't believe in redemption or second chances so I assume he is screwed for life. Also were there any reports as to what happened to the people who had manipulated and bullied him into match fixing? I don't remember reading anything about it. Edit - I just read a Korean article, apparently he was sentenced to 1 year jail and 3 years probation. So I assume he is still on probation, ending this year. Overall yes he's kind of screwed, arguably tho it his gambling/ lifestyle that was the original problem, he earned half a million in prize money at 20 years old and ended up broke. As for the vod it's an insane decision by Blizz, I can't even understand how someone there actually took time to dig out 5 years old matches and hides them. sOs second Blizzcon title is one of my all time SC2 highlight and the series is a display of why I think he was the greatest protoss of HOTS, it's really a shame to lose it. There is already enough of Starcraft history in the MLG and GOMTV days that are lost to time there's no reason to erase what we got. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16701 Posts
On August 28 2019 00:14 kajtarp wrote: This move from Blizz is quite an exaggaration and really annoying tbh. I wanted to rewatch Life's games because he was one of the most entertaining player this game ever had. I am planning this for a while now. On top of my list was Blizzcon 2014 and 2015... Not only because of life, but also because of his opponents who retired since... Well, i guess one less reason now to spend time with sc2... Is it possible some of those games had a predetermined ending? So then the game itself was just a staged show? The players create as entertaining a game as possible before it reaches a predetermined conclusion ? in this case you might want to delete the game completely. Blizzard is in a tough spot. Its a difficult decision to make. | ||
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kajtarp
Hungary483 Posts
On August 28 2019 01:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Blizzard is in a tough spot. Its a difficult decision to make. Difficult decision to make my ass. Life was stripped of his titles, hes banned forever playing sc2. He got punished enough already, theres absolutely not necessary to go beyond further. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On August 28 2019 01:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Is it possible some of those games had a predetermined ending? So then the game itself was just a staged show? The players create as entertaining a game as possible before it reaches a predetermined conclusion ? in this case you might want to delete the game completely. Blizzard is in a tough spot. Its a difficult decision to make. I mean nothing at all ever came up that would indicate even an hint of that being the case. It would also be a stupidly high risk to take for a company like Blizz to stage their whole event (which would be a criminal affair) just to make storyline happen. There could have been match fixing at blizzcon just like in any other events but considering no one ever raise suspicion about it I don't see the point of deleting the vod, it's not like the games in of themselves are evidence of match fixing or not. It's most likely just a PR move, they want the world to forgot that there was ever any matchfixing in Blizzard esport/forget Life existed. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16701 Posts
On August 28 2019 01:27 kajtarp wrote: Difficult decision to make my ass. Life was stripped of his titles, hes banned forever playing sc2. He got punished enough already, theres absolutely not necessary to go beyond further. what is the point of publishing a game with a pre-determined ending? Competitive SC2 isn't the WWE. On August 28 2019 01:38 Nakajin wrote: Huh what? I mean nothing at all ever came up that would indicate even an hint of that being the case. It would also be a stupidly high risk to take for a company like Blizz to stage their whole event (which would be a criminal affair) just to make storyline happen. There could have been match fixing at blizzcon just like in any other events but considering no one ever raise suspicion about it I don't see the point of deleting the vod, it's not like the games in of themselves are evidence of match fixing or not. It's most likely just a PR move, they want the world to forgot that there was ever any matchfixing in Blizzard esport/forget Life existed. If the ending is predetermined its reasonable to assume the players give the fans a good show. It is unreasonable to think the players want to put on a bad show for the fans. This happens in other match fixing scandals. what is the point of watching a match-fixed game? Now, if he is falsely convicted and didn't engage in match-fixing.. that's a different question. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On August 28 2019 01:43 JimmyJRaynor wrote: what is the point of publishing a game with a pre-determined ending? Competitive SC2 isn't the WWE. if the ending is predetermined its reasonable to assume the players give the fans a good show. it is unreasonable to think the players want to put on a bad show for the fans. this happens in other match fixing scandals. what is the point of watching a match-fixed game? Now, if he is falsely convicted and didn't engage in match-fixing.. that's a different question. But no one ever accused him of fixing his Blizzcon games | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 28 2019 01:43 JimmyJRaynor wrote: what is the point of publishing a game with a pre-determined ending? Competitive SC2 isn't the WWE. If the ending is predetermined its reasonable to assume the players give the fans a good show. It is unreasonable to think the players want to put on a bad show for the fans. This happens in other match fixing scandals. what is the point of watching a match-fixed game? Now, if he is falsely convicted and didn't engage in match-fixing.. that's a different question. Am i watching someone legitimately use "guilty until proven innocent" logic here? He is convicted (and was accused) on a set of games, none of which have anything to do with Blizzcon. | ||
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Orlok
Korea (South)227 Posts
And yeah, this decision really is overkill. We know Life is a litte piece of garbage who sold out the entire SC2 scene for money despite being a successful star, but we can still remove that persona from the player that he was and enjoy that without any killjoy. | ||
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Chris_Havoc
United States600 Posts
On August 28 2019 13:55 Orlok wrote: Whats kind of funny about this situation is that the Korean cast VODS (Chaester, Canata and Yoo Dae Hyun did their own cast of 2015 global finals in Korean) are all pretty much well and safe on the SPOTV youtube channel. I guess Blizzard just doesn't remember this? Hopefully it stays that way, I always want to be able to see sOs win his second Blizzcon title via vods. And yeah, this decision really is overkill. We know Life is a litte piece of garbage who sold out the entire SC2 scene for money despite being a successful star, but we can still remove that persona from the player that he was and enjoy that without any killjoy. What else is kinda funny is that SPOTV removed some 2015 Proleague VODs from other matchfixers like BBoongBBoong & YoDa. But strangely enough the Life VODs are still there. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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RealityTheGreat
China564 Posts
On August 28 2019 15:10 Xiphias wrote: I'm finding a lot of Life's game on this search, but not sure if any of them are blizzcon 2014 or 2015 https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=이승현 starcraft Well.There are WCS2015 VODs like Life vs Inno.Esport TV didn't hide these. | ||
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RealityTheGreat
China564 Posts
On August 28 2019 14:08 Chris_Havoc wrote: What else is kinda funny is that SPOTV removed some 2015 Proleague VODs from other matchfixers like BBoongBBoong & YoDa. But strangely enough the Life VODs are still there. Yes, they removed these.However, there are still other language version VODs. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On August 26 2019 19:57 SuperFanBoy wrote: Does anyone actually know what happened to Life? I feel bad for him as he screwed up his whole life due to one very bad decision at age 16. I believe he had dropped out of school to pursue being a pro gamer so I don't think he will have much of work opportunities as education is everything over there. On top of that, googling his name in Korean returns his wiki which talks about his arrest etc. and in Korea they don't believe in redemption or second chances so I assume he is screwed for life. Also were there any reports as to what happened to the people who had manipulated and bullied him into match fixing? I don't remember reading anything about it. Edit - I just read a Korean article, apparently he was sentenced to 1 year jail and 3 years probation. So I assume he is still on probation, ending this year. I mean, he had a suspended sentence so the only time he spent in jail was before/during court appearances. He was also only fined 70 million KRW, the same amount he matchfixed for. So all things considered, I don't imagine Life came out much worse than the average retired progamer. Of course his name is mud within the Starcraft community, but it's not like he was an actor or athlete or other celebrity. Most people wouldn't recognize his name and wouldn't particularly care even if they did. Presumably he went to the army and then did whatever progamers do afterwards. I guess he has a criminal record, but not a violent one. Not sure how much a criminal record matters for the kind of jobs an ex-progamer would do anyhow. | ||
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kajtarp
Hungary483 Posts
On August 28 2019 17:38 pvsnp wrote: I mean, he had a suspended sentence so the only time he spent in jail was before/during court appearances. He was also only fined 70 million KRW, the same amount he matchfixed for. So all things considered, I don't imagine Life came out much worse than the average retired progamer. Rumors say he has/had a serious gambling addiction and gambled away all of his earnings and hes literally broke. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On August 28 2019 13:55 Orlok wrote: Whats kind of funny about this situation is that the Korean cast VODS (Chaester, Canata and Yoo Dae Hyun did their own cast of 2015 global finals in Korean) are all pretty much well and safe on the SPOTV youtube channel. I guess Blizzard just doesn't remember this? Hopefully it stays that way, I always want to be able to see sOs win his second Blizzcon title via vods. Could you please provide these links for those of us who can't read Korean? Thanks | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3380 Posts
Even if you've somehow come to the conclusion that it'd be better that we all forget about Life existing, it's absolutely unfair for all of the other attendees of the tournament, what about the 2nd place finisher, is it fair that visibility of his achievement is removed just because of this one player? I also think it's important that we keep Life in mind, so that we make sure that this doesn't happen in the future. I also just happen to think that fostering taboo about this whole situation is wrong, first of all our history is just less genuine in our discourse. 2nd of all we don't learn from our mistakes. 3rd of all when people ask: "when can Life play again?", it's not like it's a stupid question. Ofc we can all interpret that he's banned for Life, but without any official statement, if we don't ask the question, he will have been wronged. Lets say that internally Blizz has discussed this and they agreed that in 10 years he can play again, well if we don't ask the question, we would just assume that it's for life and in that case, in 10 years he could simply not play, because it has become our perception that he's just banned for Life. We have no idea, if he would be allowed to play in WC4?, there really should be some official statement, so that we don't jump at each others throats when discussing this. | ||
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swissman777
1106 Posts
On August 28 2019 13:55 Orlok wrote: Whats kind of funny about this situation is that the Korean cast VODS (Chaester, Canata and Yoo Dae Hyun did their own cast of 2015 global finals in Korean) are all pretty much well and safe on the SPOTV youtube channel. I guess Blizzard just doesn't remember this? Hopefully it stays that way, I always want to be able to see sOs win his second Blizzcon title via vods. And yeah, this decision really is overkill. We know Life is a litte piece of garbage who sold out the entire SC2 scene for money despite being a successful star, but we can still remove that persona from the player that he was and enjoy that without any killjoy. Also you're doing a huge disservice to the other pro players who played their heart out against life and deserves to be recognized. | ||
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
User was warned for this post. | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
On November 03 2019 14:30 showstealer1829 wrote: Fuck Life and fuck anyone who still likes or defends Life. Take all his matches down. You are beyond ridiculous. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15957 Posts
On November 03 2019 14:30 showstealer1829 wrote: Fuck Life and fuck anyone who still likes or defends Life. Take all his matches down. I'm not allowed to watch sOs winning his 2nd Blizzcon? | ||
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RealityTheGreat
China564 Posts
On November 03 2019 14:30 showstealer1829 wrote: Fuck Life and fuck anyone who still likes or defends Life. Take all his matches down. User was warned for this post. ? | ||
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Poopi
France12874 Posts
On November 03 2019 14:30 showstealer1829 wrote: Fuck Life and fuck anyone who still likes or defends Life. Take all his matches down. User was warned for this post. Well I might want to see his past games from time to time, so I remind myself that a lot of people overrate him compared to some present zergs, so it can be nice being able to watch some old vods. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On November 03 2019 14:30 showstealer1829 wrote: Fuck Life and fuck anyone who still likes or defends Life. Take all his matches down. User was warned for this post. I can support the sentiment of "fuck Life", but taking down some of the greatest starcraft series of all time is a crime. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On November 03 2019 17:37 Charoisaur wrote: I'm not allowed to watch sOs winning his 2nd Blizzcon? sOs isn't even allowed to watch himself winning that blizzcon | ||
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