EPTAlphaStar released: Deepmind Research on Ladder - Page 7
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alexanderzero
United States659 Posts
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Ronski
Finland266 Posts
1 ZVZ, it loses its hatch vs 13/12, then camps on 2 bases building roaches while it sees the opponent taking a 3rd and building 5th/6th gas before the hatch even finishes and never accounts for mutalisks untill it A-moves across the map with a ball of roaches, ignoring all injects from that point forward trying to micro its way to victory. Once it realizes it cant end the game it goes back to injecting but never built any spores / Hydra tech and just loses to mass mutas. Seems like a very "human" way to lose a game. Edit: After this game I stopped paying too much attention because I was pretty sure its just some random NA player. 2nd ZvZ, it does the "Vibe bronze to GM" Roach speed +1attack build and manages to snipe the opponents 3rd. then it just expands and wins with roach / ravager vs Roach / ravager. ZvT, loses drones to hellion runby / Liberator harass, then attacks with Roach / ravager / Queen +1 carapace and wins. Builds blind spores at 4mins. ZvP Just a roach / Ravager ling / Queen all in. Never builds blind spores. In all the games, it never scouted anything. the camera movement feels very human since its like scrolling the screen by draggin mouse around for small movements and using location hotkeys to jump between hatcheries. Has very poor creep spread, just a single tumor going in 1 or 2 directions and spreading it whenever it remembers to do it. The bot says GL HF at different times in all the games. in 1 ZvZ it comes at 22seconds, 2nd it comes as a response to the opponent saying gl hf, in ZvT 15 seconds and ZvP 8 seconds into the games. Could be a human controlling the chat function while the AI is just playing the game. Just overall it feels like an average human player. I only checked the Zerg replays because I play zerg myself but didnt find anything impressive I or anything outside of normal I wouldn't find watching a random streamer. | ||
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NinjaNight
428 Posts
On July 25 2019 02:25 Ronski wrote: After checking the replays I just feel like its either very disappointing if its actual Alphastar, or that it's just some random NA player laddering on EU. 1 ZVZ, it loses its hatch vs 13/12, then camps on 2 bases building roaches while it sees the opponent taking a 3rd and building 5th/6th gas before the hatch even finishes and never accounts for mutalisks untill it A-moves across the map with a ball of roaches, ignoring all injects from that point forward trying to micro its way to victory. Once it realizes it cant end the game it goes back to injecting but never built any spores / Hydra tech and just loses to mass mutas. Seems like a very "human" way to lose a game. Edit: After this game I stopped paying too much attention because I was pretty sure its just some random NA player. 2nd ZvZ, it does the "Vibe bronze to GM" Roach speed +1attack build and manages to snipe the opponents 3rd. then it just expands and wins with roach / ravager vs Roach / ravager. ZvT, loses drones to hellion runby / Liberator harass, then attacks with Roach / ravager / Queen +1 carapace and wins. Builds blind spores at 4mins. ZvP Just a roach / Ravager ling / Queen all in. Never builds blind spores. In all the games, it never scouted anything. the camera movement feels very human since its like scrolling the screen by draggin mouse around for small movements and using location hotkeys to jump between hatcheries. Has very poor creep spread, just a single tumor going in 1 or 2 directions and spreading it whenever it remembers to do it. The bot says GL HF at different times in all the games. in 1 ZvZ it comes at 22seconds, 2nd it comes as a response to the opponent saying gl hf, in ZvT 15 seconds and ZvP 8 seconds into the games. Could be a human controlling the chat function while the AI is just playing the game. Just overall it feels like an average human player. I only checked the Zerg replays because I play zerg myself but didnt find anything impressive I or anything outside of normal I wouldn't find watching a random streamer. It's not supposed to be great yet. The deepmind guy (Timo) hanging out in the SC2AI discord said don't expect too much of it right now. | ||
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Ronski
Finland266 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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Ronski
Finland266 Posts
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
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Ronski
Finland266 Posts
On July 25 2019 04:17 -HuShang- wrote: It's one hundred percent alpha star @ronski Watching the games themselves I don't see any reason to believe its Alphastar? | ||
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alexanderzero
United States659 Posts
Watching the games themselves I don't see any reason to believe its Alphastar? The biggest tell is that it doesn't use control groups and also the profiles which are playing all have the exact same number of games played at basically the same time (one profile for each race). | ||
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Kalera
United States338 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_2FZDFti08MI5WRaZUZSIQ | ||
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Ronski
Finland266 Posts
On July 25 2019 05:55 alexanderzero wrote: This is turning out just like last time. AlphaStar plays godlike, but also human-like Starcraft and everyone shits on it. Oh well, what are you gonna do? The biggest tell is that it doesn't use control groups and also the profiles which are playing all have the exact same number of games played at basically the same time (one profile for each race). Like I said before, simply choosing (hide control groups) in strarcraft options is enough to achieve this. Everyone who has this option selected appears to be playing without any control groups. The only proof that it is Alphastar is the 3 accounts all playing at the same time and the same amount of games, analyzing any ingame material simply shows an average player who over prioritizes micro and forgets to macro. | ||
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naughtDE
158 Posts
On July 25 2019 13:44 Ronski wrote: Like I said before, simply choosing (hide control groups) in strarcraft options is enough to achieve this. Everyone who has this option selected appears to be playing without any control groups. The only proof that it is Alphastar is the 3 accounts all playing at the same time and the same amount of games, analyzing any ingame material simply shows an average player who over prioritizes micro and forgets to macro. The Zerg one selects Larva without looking or selecting hatcheries first, definite ingame tell. Also slight offscreen micro here and there since what it sees appears to be in an unusual aspect ratio (very obvious when dealing with early game worker shinanigans). My favourite thing so far was the PvP(random) against Beasty, where Beasty attemps a half-assed cannonrush and Alphastar went lowground Pylon + Gate, which means free win for the canon rushing gm (and beasty immidiatly says GG upon scouting this (as in he is sure of his victory)), what follows is the most insane, clean and calm probe defend I ever seen in Sc2. Like, if a human could develop that level of confidence in it's control, lowground walls in PvP might actually open up as a viable strategy. Also Alphastar's TvP approach here is entertaining: It goes Marine, Tank, Speed Banshee. It gets Stim for Marines first, yet not a single medivac is being build all game. | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4028 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
Almost.... | ||
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jimminy_kriket
Canada5520 Posts
On July 25 2019 15:20 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: can you give a direct link to that pvp vs Beasty? https://www.twitch.tv/videos/457238012?t=05h51m35s | ||
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naughtDE
158 Posts
On July 25 2019 15:20 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: can you give a direct link to that pvp vs Beasty? https://www.twitch.tv/videos/456819625?t=01h58m37s The one Jimmy posted is also enlightening. Edit: I also have a theory, why the protoss version performs best. If you want to micro marines you have to use up lots of focus and actions (splitting/stutterstepping), but if you want to place a forcefield there is only one action counted. The thing that balances that out for humans is that you also have to concentrate and find the correct moment to do it, if Alphastar just has to worry to stay under a threshold for counted actions, then Protoss without things like injects and creepspread will have the most left over. | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
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Ronski
Finland266 Posts
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
On July 25 2019 05:55 alexanderzero wrote: This is turning out just like last time. AlphaStar plays godlike, but also human-like Starcraft and everyone shits on it. Oh well, what are you gonna do? The biggest tell is that it doesn't use control groups and also the profiles which are playing all have the exact same number of games played at basically the same time (one profile for each race). I count one person who did anything close to 'shitting' on alphastar so what do you mean by everyone? On July 26 2019 04:44 Ronski wrote: Yeah I watched Beastyqt stream analyzing the alphastar replays and I have changed my mind that it is real Alphastar. It still feels very disappointing watching it play zerg doing a blind build without any scouting or real decision making. What are you disappointed by? I'm glad that an AI wasn't able to immediately solve my favourite game even if it is playing at quite a high level in many aspects already. | ||
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