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On June 17 2019 03:36 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2019 03:28 waiting2Bbanned wrote:On June 17 2019 02:37 Fango wrote:On June 16 2019 11:53 waiting2Bbanned wrote:On June 16 2019 11:23 Die4Ever wrote:On June 16 2019 02:33 Fango wrote:Sad for JYP, right before the finals as well  On June 16 2019 01:45 Elentos wrote:On June 16 2019 01:44 stilt wrote:On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote:
I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really.
And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet.
What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today. This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish. They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life. I don't think it's an official rule for them not to talk about Life, but I remember Artosis saying on stream that the casters had decided amongst themselves not to bring him up. The only one I saw talk about him after the scandel was Wolf it seems it is a rule https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/b413s8/we_are_explicitly_instructed_to_never_mention/ Whatever Life did that got him banned, the way he played the game was genius. To this day I've never seen anyone impress me like he did. Blizzard's pathetic attempt at rewriting history won't change that for me. Rommel was a nazi, but that doesn't negate his strategic brilliance, or make anyone try to erase him from the history books. Good thing they're doing it to a video game player though, keep our feeble minds pure and untainted  I swear the people who write these comments live in a bubble where matchfixers only harmed themselves and not anyone else. Blizzard giving any credit to Life would be an insult to all the players and coaches who lost their jobs because of matchfixers (of which Life was by far the most damaging in sc2). Not to mention any potential up and coming or future players that never happened after the scandal. You can't help kill a scene then expect that same scene to honour all your achievements. Yet there are sports like baseball where cheaters get short suspensions and are inducted into the Hall Of Fame. I'm talking about grown men, not some kid playing a video game. Also those players cheated to win, ask anyone if Life didn't win his matches and trophies on skill and talent. I could also mention the institutionalized corruption in KESPA, but I don't think any reasonable argument would work with you. I wonder if baseball lost most of it's pro players, as well as it's most important league/source of income partly (not entirely, but still) because of those cheaters? Life didn't cheat and receive a standardised ban, he matchfixed. There's a massive difference there. Whether you like it or not the actions of matchfixers assisted in killing korean sc2. Proleague was still pretty fairly until the big scandal at the start of 2016, post scandal it was pretty clear it lost a good portion of it's audience. How would you feel as a player or coach who lost their job seeing Life honoured by blizzard as one of the greats?
Wait, so if he cheated to win his achievements would've been fine and we should still honor them? While throwing a match negates them all??
I see how you glaze over the continuous decline in the SC2 scene that started years before, that KESPA and Blizzard must somehow be completely blameless for, but if you blame Life for all of that, I guess you should also blame him for climate change and world hunger. Failure to oversee a system they built and had complete control over seems more important to me than one kid making the mistake of trusting the wrong people.
There's also a difference between "honoring him as one of the greats" and taking away all his achievements and denying his existence. It's like saying we can either have children watching snuff porn, or burning all the books; there's always a middle ground.
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That JYP tribute in the end was really touching, you guys should check it out if you haven't already
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No matter what anyone, including Blizzard, says, Life is one of the greatest (arguably the GOAT) SC2 players of all time in terms of game skill/prowess/ability.
His violations had nothing to do with his victories - only his losses.
Taking away his titles and honors is one thing. Pretending he never dominated [without cheating] is another.
Anyway, Blizzard's policy of not having his name mentioned by casters is beyond idiotic imo.
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On June 17 2019 06:19 BerserkSword wrote:
No matter what anyone, including Blizzard, says, Life is one of the greatest (arguably the GOAT) SC2 players of all time in terms of game skill/prowess/ability.
His violations had nothing to do with his victories - only his losses.
Taking away his titles and honors is one thing. Pretending he never dominated [without cheating] is another.
Anyway, Blizzard's policy of not having his name mentioned by casters is beyond idiotic imo.
Actually I feel like Serral is everything that was good about life + way more.
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On June 17 2019 08:26 Snakestyle11 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2019 06:19 BerserkSword wrote:
No matter what anyone, including Blizzard, says, Life is one of the greatest (arguably the GOAT) SC2 players of all time in terms of game skill/prowess/ability.
His violations had nothing to do with his victories - only his losses.
Taking away his titles and honors is one thing. Pretending he never dominated [without cheating] is another.
Anyway, Blizzard's policy of not having his name mentioned by casters is beyond idiotic imo. Actually I feel like Serral is everything that was good about life + way more.
Lmfao. Hate as much as u want in him as a person but we have not seen anything remotely resembling life as a zerg player. In all likelihood we never will again. Its a god damn tragedy imo.
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On June 17 2019 11:23 DomeGetta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2019 08:26 Snakestyle11 wrote:On June 17 2019 06:19 BerserkSword wrote:
No matter what anyone, including Blizzard, says, Life is one of the greatest (arguably the GOAT) SC2 players of all time in terms of game skill/prowess/ability.
His violations had nothing to do with his victories - only his losses.
Taking away his titles and honors is one thing. Pretending he never dominated [without cheating] is another.
Anyway, Blizzard's policy of not having his name mentioned by casters is beyond idiotic imo. Actually I feel like Serral is everything that was good about life + way more. Lmfao. Hate as much as u want in him as a person but we have not seen anything remotely resembling life as a zerg player. In all likelihood we never will again. Its a god damn tragedy imo.
Whats also a tragedy is how much he was liked and what he could have accomplished. All the rivalries he could have had (Maru vs. Life, sOs vs. Life) a real shame that we might still have Proleague and maybe, with the foreigners that have been coming to GSL, the gap could have been closes. Instead we have just Serral and every so often Neeb and Special.
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Dark is the hero we need in these darkest times.
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On June 17 2019 08:26 Snakestyle11 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2019 06:19 BerserkSword wrote:
No matter what anyone, including Blizzard, says, Life is one of the greatest (arguably the GOAT) SC2 players of all time in terms of game skill/prowess/ability.
His violations had nothing to do with his victories - only his losses.
Taking away his titles and honors is one thing. Pretending he never dominated [without cheating] is another.
Anyway, Blizzard's policy of not having his name mentioned by casters is beyond idiotic imo. Actually I feel like Serral is everything that was good about life + way more.
Serral is nothing like Life. Life was an aggressive Zerg who used his incredible mechanics and game sense to force wins in almost any scenario. Serral is just a (very good) solid macro Zerg like soO or Soulkey at their primes.
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On June 17 2019 15:42 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2019 08:26 Snakestyle11 wrote:On June 17 2019 06:19 BerserkSword wrote:
No matter what anyone, including Blizzard, says, Life is one of the greatest (arguably the GOAT) SC2 players of all time in terms of game skill/prowess/ability.
His violations had nothing to do with his victories - only his losses.
Taking away his titles and honors is one thing. Pretending he never dominated [without cheating] is another.
Anyway, Blizzard's policy of not having his name mentioned by casters is beyond idiotic imo. Actually I feel like Serral is everything that was good about life + way more. Serral is nothing like Life. Life was an aggressive Zerg who used his incredible mechanics and game sense to force wins in almost any scenario. Serral is just a (very good) solid macro Zerg like soO or Soulkey at their primes.
I agree. Playstyle wise Dark is more similar to Life than Serral
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Poor JYP.
Happy for Dark though, gogo
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Life vs Serral series would be really nice to see.
Its ofc theoretical. Life now and Serral now would be no-match, obviously.
But their play styles (of their best) versus each other, that would be veeeeeeeeery nice...
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Northern Ireland11778 Posts
On June 17 2019 03:36 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2019 03:28 waiting2Bbanned wrote:On June 17 2019 02:37 Fango wrote:On June 16 2019 11:53 waiting2Bbanned wrote:On June 16 2019 11:23 Die4Ever wrote:On June 16 2019 02:33 Fango wrote:Sad for JYP, right before the finals as well On June 16 2019 01:45 Elentos wrote:On June 16 2019 01:44 stilt wrote:On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote:
I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really.
And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet.
What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today. This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish. They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life. I don't think it's an official rule for them not to talk about Life, but I remember Artosis saying on stream that the casters had decided amongst themselves not to bring him up. The only one I saw talk about him after the scandel was Wolf it seems it is a rule https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/b413s8/we_are_explicitly_instructed_to_never_mention/ Whatever Life did that got him banned, the way he played the game was genius. To this day I've never seen anyone impress me like he did. Blizzard's pathetic attempt at rewriting history won't change that for me. Rommel was a nazi, but that doesn't negate his strategic brilliance, or make anyone try to erase him from the history books. Good thing they're doing it to a video game player though, keep our feeble minds pure and untainted I swear the people who write these comments live in a bubble where matchfixers only harmed themselves and not anyone else. Blizzard giving any credit to Life would be an insult to all the players and coaches who lost their jobs because of matchfixers (of which Life was by far the most damaging in sc2). Not to mention any potential up and coming or future players that never happened after the scandal. You can't help kill a scene then expect that same scene to honour all your achievements. Yet there are sports like baseball where cheaters get short suspensions and are inducted into the Hall Of Fame. I'm talking about grown men, not some kid playing a video game. Also those players cheated to win, ask anyone if Life didn't win his matches and trophies on skill and talent. I could also mention the institutionalized corruption in KESPA, but I don't think any reasonable argument would work with you. I wonder if baseball lost most of it's pro players, as well as it's most important league/source of income partly (not entirely, but still) because of those cheaters? Life didn't cheat and receive a standardised ban, he matchfixed. There's a massive difference there. Whether you like it or not the actions of matchfixers assisted in killing korean sc2. Proleague was still fairly popular until the scandal at the start of 2016, post scandal it was pretty clear it lost a good portion of it's audience. How would you feel as a player or coach who lost their job seeing Life honoured by blizzard as one of the greats? Edit: Especially given what happened in BW. Any pro korean player knew the potential consequences of matchfixing and the impact it can have on a scene. No excuses.
Absolutely 100% with this.
I still admire his play and rewatch some classic series featuring him, I think not mentioning him is entirely appropriate.
That other sports don’t do this is a fault on them, not a fault with SC’s zero tolerance on match-fixing and whatnot
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On June 18 2019 10:45 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2019 03:36 Fango wrote:On June 17 2019 03:28 waiting2Bbanned wrote:On June 17 2019 02:37 Fango wrote:On June 16 2019 11:53 waiting2Bbanned wrote:On June 16 2019 11:23 Die4Ever wrote:On June 16 2019 02:33 Fango wrote:Sad for JYP, right before the finals as well On June 16 2019 01:45 Elentos wrote:On June 16 2019 01:44 stilt wrote:On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote:
I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really.
And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet.
What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today. This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish. They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life. I don't think it's an official rule for them not to talk about Life, but I remember Artosis saying on stream that the casters had decided amongst themselves not to bring him up. The only one I saw talk about him after the scandel was Wolf it seems it is a rule https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/b413s8/we_are_explicitly_instructed_to_never_mention/ Whatever Life did that got him banned, the way he played the game was genius. To this day I've never seen anyone impress me like he did. Blizzard's pathetic attempt at rewriting history won't change that for me. Rommel was a nazi, but that doesn't negate his strategic brilliance, or make anyone try to erase him from the history books. Good thing they're doing it to a video game player though, keep our feeble minds pure and untainted I swear the people who write these comments live in a bubble where matchfixers only harmed themselves and not anyone else. Blizzard giving any credit to Life would be an insult to all the players and coaches who lost their jobs because of matchfixers (of which Life was by far the most damaging in sc2). Not to mention any potential up and coming or future players that never happened after the scandal. You can't help kill a scene then expect that same scene to honour all your achievements. Yet there are sports like baseball where cheaters get short suspensions and are inducted into the Hall Of Fame. I'm talking about grown men, not some kid playing a video game. Also those players cheated to win, ask anyone if Life didn't win his matches and trophies on skill and talent. I could also mention the institutionalized corruption in KESPA, but I don't think any reasonable argument would work with you. I wonder if baseball lost most of it's pro players, as well as it's most important league/source of income partly (not entirely, but still) because of those cheaters? Life didn't cheat and receive a standardised ban, he matchfixed. There's a massive difference there. Whether you like it or not the actions of matchfixers assisted in killing korean sc2. Proleague was still fairly popular until the scandal at the start of 2016, post scandal it was pretty clear it lost a good portion of it's audience. How would you feel as a player or coach who lost their job seeing Life honoured by blizzard as one of the greats? Edit: Especially given what happened in BW. Any pro korean player knew the potential consequences of matchfixing and the impact it can have on a scene. No excuses. Absolutely 100% with this. I still admire his play and rewatch some classic series featuring him, I think not mentioning him is entirely appropriate. That other sports don’t do this is a fault on them, not a fault with SC’s zero tolerance on match-fixing and whatnot
It's funny that baseball is used as an example because in the early days to assert the legitimacy of the sport, they took the nuclear option: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenesaw_Mountain_Landis
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On June 18 2019 17:15 Ducky_1887 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2019 10:45 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 17 2019 03:36 Fango wrote:On June 17 2019 03:28 waiting2Bbanned wrote:On June 17 2019 02:37 Fango wrote:On June 16 2019 11:53 waiting2Bbanned wrote:On June 16 2019 11:23 Die4Ever wrote:On June 16 2019 02:33 Fango wrote:Sad for JYP, right before the finals as well On June 16 2019 01:45 Elentos wrote:On June 16 2019 01:44 stilt wrote:
[quote]
This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish. They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life. I don't think it's an official rule for them not to talk about Life, but I remember Artosis saying on stream that the casters had decided amongst themselves not to bring him up. The only one I saw talk about him after the scandel was Wolf it seems it is a rule https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/b413s8/we_are_explicitly_instructed_to_never_mention/ Whatever Life did that got him banned, the way he played the game was genius. To this day I've never seen anyone impress me like he did. Blizzard's pathetic attempt at rewriting history won't change that for me. Rommel was a nazi, but that doesn't negate his strategic brilliance, or make anyone try to erase him from the history books. Good thing they're doing it to a video game player though, keep our feeble minds pure and untainted I swear the people who write these comments live in a bubble where matchfixers only harmed themselves and not anyone else. Blizzard giving any credit to Life would be an insult to all the players and coaches who lost their jobs because of matchfixers (of which Life was by far the most damaging in sc2). Not to mention any potential up and coming or future players that never happened after the scandal. You can't help kill a scene then expect that same scene to honour all your achievements. Yet there are sports like baseball where cheaters get short suspensions and are inducted into the Hall Of Fame. I'm talking about grown men, not some kid playing a video game. Also those players cheated to win, ask anyone if Life didn't win his matches and trophies on skill and talent. I could also mention the institutionalized corruption in KESPA, but I don't think any reasonable argument would work with you. I wonder if baseball lost most of it's pro players, as well as it's most important league/source of income partly (not entirely, but still) because of those cheaters? Life didn't cheat and receive a standardised ban, he matchfixed. There's a massive difference there. Whether you like it or not the actions of matchfixers assisted in killing korean sc2. Proleague was still fairly popular until the scandal at the start of 2016, post scandal it was pretty clear it lost a good portion of it's audience. How would you feel as a player or coach who lost their job seeing Life honoured by blizzard as one of the greats? Edit: Especially given what happened in BW. Any pro korean player knew the potential consequences of matchfixing and the impact it can have on a scene. No excuses. Absolutely 100% with this. I still admire his play and rewatch some classic series featuring him, I think not mentioning him is entirely appropriate. That other sports don’t do this is a fault on them, not a fault with SC’s zero tolerance on match-fixing and whatnot It's funny that baseball is used as an example because in the early days to assert the legitimacy of the sport, they took the nuclear option: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenesaw_Mountain_Landis
I don't know if you've noticed we're 100 years ahead now and the society evolved. Especially don't use US 100-year old decision as an example, becuase US has some skeletons which are not appropriate(edit> meant as an example of a good decision, back in the time the decision usually was valid for the society they lived in) for a discussion in the 21st century(e.g. US citizenship and territories)
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WCS
