After competing in the GSL for over six years, Dark reached his first Code S grand final with a 4-1 victory over Hurricane in the second semifinal match of the playoffs.
Dark showed that the best defense is often a good offense, striking early and sealing off the creative build orders that played a crucial role in Hurricane's underdog run to the semifinals. Pool-first builds, offensive Hatcheries at the Protoss natural, or a throwback Speedling drop—all these moves served to disrupt Hurricane's game plan and allow Dark to enter the mid-game on his own terms. Without the threat of a Protoss all-in, Dark was able to crush Hurricane at his leisure, be it with burrowed Roaches or mass Lurkers (only when Dark fully committed to a 1-base all-in was Hurricane able to salvage a map and avoid a sweep).
Dark moves on to face Trap, a fellow first-time Code S finalist, in the grand finals on Saturday, Jun 22 8:00am GMT (GMT+00:00).
For Korean fans, the day was just as notable for JYP's official departure from the casting desk. Due to an abrupt summons to fulfill his military service, the four-year GSL analyst was forced to make the semifinals his last match, and will be unable to bring his Protoss expertise to the finals broadcast.
I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really. And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet. What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today.
On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote: I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really. And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet. What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today.
This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish.
On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote: I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really. And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet. What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today.
This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish.
They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life.
On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote: I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really. And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet. What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today.
This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish.
someone who's disgraced the game doesn't need to be mentioned and given further promotion/fame/etc for a crime. what's cringy is what life did. i forgive him personally, but he had an incredible privilege and chose to throw it away. it's his own fault, so he can be forgotten for all i care
Congrats to dark. Only having to prepare for one matchup has huge advantages. It was great to see ling drops brought back. It's a perfect counter to the timing attacks. I'm sad that we dont get to see back and forth PvZs but at least the strategies are really interesting for Z and show how zerg can push back against the era of immortal+wp.
On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote: I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really. And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet. What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today.
This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish.
They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life.
I don't think it's an official rule for them not to talk about Life, but I remember Artosis saying on stream that the casters had decided amongst themselves not to bring him up. The only one I saw talk about him after the scandel was Wolf
On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote: I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really. And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet. What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today.
This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish.
They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life.
I don't think it's an official rule for them not to talk about Life, but I remember Artosis saying on stream that the casters had decided amongst themselves not to bring him up. The only one I saw talk about him after the scandel was Wolf
I've heard it said by several casters that they are specifically told by Blizzard not to talk about Life in official events. If you watch community events like the Pylon Show they will talk about Life.
Interesting development. Toss feels that late late game is super Z favored so Toss develops a ton of mid game timings to never need to play the late game, or to only go into late game in a serious advantage having done damage. After years in the lab, Toss gets the mid game timings so strong that Zerg decides midgame is super Toss favored and so then Dark develops a ton of early game all ins so he doesn’t have to play the mid game, or at minimum only goes to the midgame after having done damage.
I’m going to assume the next step is that Toss decides the early game is Z favored and so develops a bunch of probe rushes to avoid having to play the early game
On June 16 2019 03:24 General_Winter wrote: Interesting development. Toss feels that late late game is super Z favored so Toss develops a ton of mid game timings to never need to play the late game, or to only go into late game in a serious advantage having done damage. After years in the lab, Toss gets the mid game timings so strong that Zerg decides midgame is super Toss favored and so then Dark develops a ton of early game all ins so he doesn’t have to play the mid game, or at minimum only goes to the midgame after having done damage.
I’m going to assume the next step is that Toss decides the early game is Z favored and so develops a bunch of probe rushes to avoid having to play the early game
On June 16 2019 03:24 General_Winter wrote: Interesting development. Toss feels that late late game is super Z favored so Toss develops a ton of mid game timings to never need to play the late game, or to only go into late game in a serious advantage having done damage. After years in the lab, Toss gets the mid game timings so strong that Zerg decides midgame is super Toss favored and so then Dark develops a ton of early game all ins so he doesn’t have to play the mid game, or at minimum only goes to the midgame after having done damage.
I’m going to assume the next step is that Toss decides the early game is Z favored and so develops a bunch of probe rushes to avoid having to play the early game
The fanciest cannon rushes the world has ever seen.
On June 16 2019 03:24 General_Winter wrote: Interesting development. Toss feels that late late game is super Z favored so Toss develops a ton of mid game timings to never need to play the late game, or to only go into late game in a serious advantage having done damage. After years in the lab, Toss gets the mid game timings so strong that Zerg decides midgame is super Toss favored and so then Dark develops a ton of early game all ins so he doesn’t have to play the mid game, or at minimum only goes to the midgame after having done damage.
I’m going to assume the next step is that Toss decides the early game is Z favored and so develops a bunch of probe rushes to avoid having to play the early game
:D
so the meta is either go dank or go dumb... suddenly every zerg and protoss players can become a chad
On June 16 2019 03:24 General_Winter wrote: Interesting development. Toss feels that late late game is super Z favored so Toss develops a ton of mid game timings to never need to play the late game, or to only go into late game in a serious advantage having done damage. After years in the lab, Toss gets the mid game timings so strong that Zerg decides midgame is super Toss favored and so then Dark develops a ton of early game all ins so he doesn’t have to play the mid game, or at minimum only goes to the midgame after having done damage.
I’m going to assume the next step is that Toss decides the early game is Z favored and so develops a bunch of probe rushes to avoid having to play the early game
:D
so the meta is either go dank or go dumb... suddenly every zerg and protoss players can become a chad
On June 16 2019 03:24 General_Winter wrote: Interesting development. Toss feels that late late game is super Z favored so Toss develops a ton of mid game timings to never need to play the late game, or to only go into late game in a serious advantage having done damage. After years in the lab, Toss gets the mid game timings so strong that Zerg decides midgame is super Toss favored and so then Dark develops a ton of early game all ins so he doesn’t have to play the mid game, or at minimum only goes to the midgame after having done damage.
I’m going to assume the next step is that Toss decides the early game is Z favored and so develops a bunch of probe rushes to avoid having to play the early game
:D
so the meta is either go dank or go dumb... suddenly every zerg and protoss players can become a chad
What is a chad?
Wut? U ask me again man... Ok besides the real life common meaning. on Reddit,it means a player who can cheese the hell out of you.not a one trick pony player
On June 16 2019 03:24 General_Winter wrote: Interesting development. Toss feels that late late game is super Z favored so Toss develops a ton of mid game timings to never need to play the late game, or to only go into late game in a serious advantage having done damage. After years in the lab, Toss gets the mid game timings so strong that Zerg decides midgame is super Toss favored and so then Dark develops a ton of early game all ins so he doesn’t have to play the mid game, or at minimum only goes to the midgame after having done damage.
I’m going to assume the next step is that Toss decides the early game is Z favored and so develops a bunch of probe rushes to avoid having to play the early game
:D
so the meta is either go dank or go dumb... suddenly every zerg and protoss players can become a chad
What is a chad?
Wut? U ask me again man... Ok besides the real life common meaning. on Reddit,it means a player who can cheese the hell out of you.not a one trick pony player
Oh yes sorry, now that went to google it I remember asking about it, can't say it's part of my real life vocabulary tho haha.
JYP "unable to bring his Protoss expertise to the finals broadcast."
There are 3 Korean announcers. What are the races of the other two? Do they have 1 for each race? Is that why there are 3? (Or are they all protosses, like GSL has been lately? Hah!)
On June 16 2019 03:24 General_Winter wrote: Interesting development. Toss feels that late late game is super Z favored so Toss develops a ton of mid game timings to never need to play the late game, or to only go into late game in a serious advantage having done damage. After years in the lab, Toss gets the mid game timings so strong that Zerg decides midgame is super Toss favored and so then Dark develops a ton of early game all ins so he doesn’t have to play the mid game, or at minimum only goes to the midgame after having done damage.
I’m going to assume the next step is that Toss decides the early game is Z favored and so develops a bunch of probe rushes to avoid having to play the early game
i'm not sure that's the case really. hurricane looked aweful and dark control over the pace of the game was absolute. i believe we won't see the same strategies in the finals, or from other zerg players for that regard. the reason being zerg need a substantial economic advantage to support this playstyle. should the protoss properly defend against the early aggression, than the hordes of low tier zerg units will get destroyed by normal early-mid protoss compositions waiting in defensive stances. if the protoss harass to successfuly deal economic dmg, zerg simply won't be able to support huge armies early on.
Super happy for Dark, he's my all--time favorite so definitely cheering for him. At the same time though, I just don't see him winning it this season...
I really hope he will, but current PvZ meta looks P-favoured and Trap is going to enter the finals with an excellent mental condition after beating Classic. Not sure how much worth is Rogue going to be as his practice partner since he has been slacking hugely lately, but the Jin Air teamhouse will surely make him prepared anyway.
Dark showed what is (was) hidden up in his sleeve in this latest series as well, which is another factor benefiting Trap.
Definitely don't want to count Dark out, this will be very close series IMO, but personally I believe Trap will take it. But if Dark manages to do it during this Protoss madness era, that'd be truly f***ing legendary.
On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote: I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really. And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet. What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today.
This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish.
They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life.
I don't think it's an official rule for them not to talk about Life, but I remember Artosis saying on stream that the casters had decided amongst themselves not to bring him up. The only one I saw talk about him after the scandel was Wolf
On June 16 2019 02:33 Fango wrote: Sad for JYP, right before the finals as well
On June 16 2019 01:45 Elentos wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:44 stilt wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote: I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really. And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet. What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today.
This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish.
They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life.
I don't think it's an official rule for them not to talk about Life, but I remember Artosis saying on stream that the casters had decided amongst themselves not to bring him up. The only one I saw talk about him after the scandel was Wolf
Whatever Life did that got him banned, the way he played the game was genius. To this day I've never seen anyone impress me like he did.
Blizzard's pathetic attempt at rewriting history won't change that for me.
Rommel was a nazi, but that doesn't negate his strategic brilliance, or make anyone try to erase him from the history books. Good thing they're doing it to a video game player though, keep our feeble minds pure and untainted
On June 16 2019 02:33 Fango wrote: Sad for JYP, right before the finals as well
On June 16 2019 01:45 Elentos wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:44 stilt wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote: I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really. And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet. What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today.
This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish.
They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life.
I don't think it's an official rule for them not to talk about Life, but I remember Artosis saying on stream that the casters had decided amongst themselves not to bring him up. The only one I saw talk about him after the scandel was Wolf
Whatever Life did that got him banned, the way he played the game was genius. To this day I've never seen anyone impress me like he did.
Blizzard's pathetic attempt at rewriting history won't change that for me.
Rommel was a nazi, but that doesn't negate his strategic brilliance, or make anyone try to erase him from the history books. Good thing they're doing it to a video game player though, keep our feeble minds pure and untainted
Rommel was a Wermacht General and not a Nazi (although the case can be made that some of his ideals might have been similar considering the time and place he lived in, he never joined the party), be careful with that you say and how you label people, even dead ones.
Other than that, not only this series but the whole GSL and other tournaments clearly show that PvZ is in a very bad spot right now, where both races have to resort to unhealthy gimmicks in order to win. The games have not felt fair nor enjoyable to me, whether it is with Protoss relying on boring but strong 2 base all-ins and Zerg being clearly favoured in the later stages of the game to the point that no Toss player even dares to have a straight-up macro game vs Zerg. I hope Blizzard acknowledges both ugly sides of the coin on this one soon and fix the matchup.
On June 16 2019 02:33 Fango wrote: Sad for JYP, right before the finals as well
On June 16 2019 01:45 Elentos wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:44 stilt wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote: I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really. And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet. What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today.
This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish.
They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life.
I don't think it's an official rule for them not to talk about Life, but I remember Artosis saying on stream that the casters had decided amongst themselves not to bring him up. The only one I saw talk about him after the scandel was Wolf
Whatever Life did that got him banned, the way he played the game was genius. To this day I've never seen anyone impress me like he did.
Blizzard's pathetic attempt at rewriting history won't change that for me.
Rommel was a nazi, but that doesn't negate his strategic brilliance, or make anyone try to erase him from the history books. Good thing they're doing it to a video game player though, keep our feeble minds pure and untainted
I swear the people who write these comments live in a bubble where matchfixers only harmed themselves and not anyone else. Blizzard giving any credit to Life would be an insult to all the players and coaches who lost their jobs because of matchfixers (of which Life was by far the most damaging in sc2). Not to mention any potential up and coming or future players that never happened after the scandal.
You can't help kill a scene then expect that same scene to honour all your achievements.
On June 16 2019 02:33 Fango wrote: Sad for JYP, right before the finals as well
On June 16 2019 01:45 Elentos wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:44 stilt wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote: I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really. And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet. What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today.
This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish.
They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life.
I don't think it's an official rule for them not to talk about Life, but I remember Artosis saying on stream that the casters had decided amongst themselves not to bring him up. The only one I saw talk about him after the scandel was Wolf
Whatever Life did that got him banned, the way he played the game was genius. To this day I've never seen anyone impress me like he did.
Blizzard's pathetic attempt at rewriting history won't change that for me.
Rommel was a nazi, but that doesn't negate his strategic brilliance, or make anyone try to erase him from the history books. Good thing they're doing it to a video game player though, keep our feeble minds pure and untainted
I swear the people who write these comments live in a bubble where matchfixers only harmed themselves and not anyone else. Blizzard giving any credit to Life would be an insult to all the players and coaches who lost their jobs because of matchfixers (of which Life was by far the most damaging in sc2). Not to mention any potential up and coming or future players that never happened after the scandal.
You can't help kill a scene then expect that same scene to honour all your achievements.
Yeah, it's not like other sports don't give second chance while we're here on the threshold of a ceremonial crucifiction... >< Holy Batman on a nuclear powered pogo stick
On June 16 2019 02:33 Fango wrote: Sad for JYP, right before the finals as well
On June 16 2019 01:45 Elentos wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:44 stilt wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote: I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really. And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet. What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today.
This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish.
They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life.
I don't think it's an official rule for them not to talk about Life, but I remember Artosis saying on stream that the casters had decided amongst themselves not to bring him up. The only one I saw talk about him after the scandel was Wolf
Whatever Life did that got him banned, the way he played the game was genius. To this day I've never seen anyone impress me like he did.
Blizzard's pathetic attempt at rewriting history won't change that for me.
Rommel was a nazi, but that doesn't negate his strategic brilliance, or make anyone try to erase him from the history books. Good thing they're doing it to a video game player though, keep our feeble minds pure and untainted
I swear the people who write these comments live in a bubble where matchfixers only harmed themselves and not anyone else. Blizzard giving any credit to Life would be an insult to all the players and coaches who lost their jobs because of matchfixers (of which Life was by far the most damaging in sc2). Not to mention any potential up and coming or future players that never happened after the scandal.
You can't help kill a scene then expect that same scene to honour all your achievements.
Yeah, it's not like other sports don't give second chance while we're here on the threshold of a ceremonial crucifiction... >< Holy Batman on a nuclear powered pogo stick
Other sports wouldn't give a second chance to players that killed a good portion of their scene. Usually they just get done for doping or something and the blame is on them. With matchfixers their actions harmed every other player, not just themselves.
On June 16 2019 02:33 Fango wrote: Sad for JYP, right before the finals as well
On June 16 2019 01:45 Elentos wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:44 stilt wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote: I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really. And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet. What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today.
This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish.
They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life.
I don't think it's an official rule for them not to talk about Life, but I remember Artosis saying on stream that the casters had decided amongst themselves not to bring him up. The only one I saw talk about him after the scandel was Wolf
Whatever Life did that got him banned, the way he played the game was genius. To this day I've never seen anyone impress me like he did.
Blizzard's pathetic attempt at rewriting history won't change that for me.
Rommel was a nazi, but that doesn't negate his strategic brilliance, or make anyone try to erase him from the history books. Good thing they're doing it to a video game player though, keep our feeble minds pure and untainted
I swear the people who write these comments live in a bubble where matchfixers only harmed themselves and not anyone else. Blizzard giving any credit to Life would be an insult to all the players and coaches who lost their jobs because of matchfixers (of which Life was by far the most damaging in sc2). Not to mention any potential up and coming or future players that never happened after the scandal.
You can't help kill a scene then expect that same scene to honour all your achievements.
Yet there are sports like baseball where cheaters get short suspensions and are inducted into the Hall Of Fame, after being caught multiple times. I'm talking about grown men, not some kid playing a video game. Also those players cheated to win, ask anyone if Life didn't win his matches and trophies on skill and talent.
"help kill a scene"?? I was glued to the screen watching him play, he brought thousands of eyeballs to the scene.
You want to blame Life for the years-long decline in SC2 viewership & player base, while giving Blizzard's decade-long mismanagement a pass?
I could also mention the institutionalized corruption in KESPA, but I don't think any reasonable argument would work with you, so I'll just stop here.
On June 16 2019 02:33 Fango wrote: Sad for JYP, right before the finals as well
On June 16 2019 01:45 Elentos wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:44 stilt wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote: I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really. And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet. What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today.
This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish.
They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life.
I don't think it's an official rule for them not to talk about Life, but I remember Artosis saying on stream that the casters had decided amongst themselves not to bring him up. The only one I saw talk about him after the scandel was Wolf
Whatever Life did that got him banned, the way he played the game was genius. To this day I've never seen anyone impress me like he did.
Blizzard's pathetic attempt at rewriting history won't change that for me.
Rommel was a nazi, but that doesn't negate his strategic brilliance, or make anyone try to erase him from the history books. Good thing they're doing it to a video game player though, keep our feeble minds pure and untainted
I swear the people who write these comments live in a bubble where matchfixers only harmed themselves and not anyone else. Blizzard giving any credit to Life would be an insult to all the players and coaches who lost their jobs because of matchfixers (of which Life was by far the most damaging in sc2). Not to mention any potential up and coming or future players that never happened after the scandal.
You can't help kill a scene then expect that same scene to honour all your achievements.
Yet there are sports like baseball where cheaters get short suspensions and are inducted into the Hall Of Fame. I'm talking about grown men, not some kid playing a video game. Also those players cheated to win, ask anyone if Life didn't win his matches and trophies on skill and talent.
I could also mention the institutionalized corruption in KESPA, but I don't think any reasonable argument would work with you.
I wonder if baseball lost most of it's pro players, as well as it's most important league/source of income partly (not entirely, but still) because of those cheaters?
Life didn't cheat and receive a standardised ban, he matchfixed. There's a massive difference there. Whether you like it or not the actions of matchfixers assisted in killing korean sc2. Proleague was still fairly popular until the scandal at the start of 2016, post scandal it was pretty clear it lost a good portion of it's audience. How would you feel as a player or coach who lost their job seeing Life honoured by blizzard as one of the greats?
Edit: Especially given what happened in BW. Any pro korean player knew the potential consequences of matchfixing and the impact it can have on a scene. No excuses.
On June 16 2019 02:33 Fango wrote: Sad for JYP, right before the finals as well
On June 16 2019 01:45 Elentos wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:44 stilt wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote: I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really. And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet. What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today.
This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish.
They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life.
I don't think it's an official rule for them not to talk about Life, but I remember Artosis saying on stream that the casters had decided amongst themselves not to bring him up. The only one I saw talk about him after the scandel was Wolf
Whatever Life did that got him banned, the way he played the game was genius. To this day I've never seen anyone impress me like he did.
Blizzard's pathetic attempt at rewriting history won't change that for me.
Rommel was a nazi, but that doesn't negate his strategic brilliance, or make anyone try to erase him from the history books. Good thing they're doing it to a video game player though, keep our feeble minds pure and untainted
I swear the people who write these comments live in a bubble where matchfixers only harmed themselves and not anyone else. Blizzard giving any credit to Life would be an insult to all the players and coaches who lost their jobs because of matchfixers (of which Life was by far the most damaging in sc2). Not to mention any potential up and coming or future players that never happened after the scandal.
You can't help kill a scene then expect that same scene to honour all your achievements.
Yet there are sports like baseball where cheaters get short suspensions and are inducted into the Hall Of Fame. I'm talking about grown men, not some kid playing a video game. Also those players cheated to win, ask anyone if Life didn't win his matches and trophies on skill and talent.
I could also mention the institutionalized corruption in KESPA, but I don't think any reasonable argument would work with you.
I wonder if baseball lost most of it's pro players, as well as it's most important league/source of income partly (not entirely, but still) because of those cheaters?
Life didn't cheat and receive a standardised ban, he matchfixed. There's a massive difference there. Whether you like it or not the actions of matchfixers assisted in killing korean sc2. Proleague was still pretty fairly until the big scandal at the start of 2016, post scandal it was pretty clear it lost a good portion of it's audience. How would you feel as a player or coach who lost their job seeing Life honoured by blizzard as one of the greats?
Wait, so if he cheated to win his achievements would've been fine and we should still honor them? While throwing a match negates them all??
I see how you glaze over the continuous decline in the SC2 scene that started years before, that KESPA and Blizzard must somehow be completely blameless for, but if you blame Life for all of that, I guess you should also blame him for climate change and world hunger. Failure to oversee a system they built and had complete control over seems more important to me than one kid making the mistake of trusting the wrong people.
There's also a difference between "honoring him as one of the greats" and taking away all his achievements and denying his existence. It's like saying we can either have children watching snuff porn, or burning all the books; there's always a middle ground.
No matter what anyone, including Blizzard, says, Life is one of the greatest (arguably the GOAT) SC2 players of all time in terms of game skill/prowess/ability.
His violations had nothing to do with his victories - only his losses.
Taking away his titles and honors is one thing. Pretending he never dominated [without cheating] is another.
Anyway, Blizzard's policy of not having his name mentioned by casters is beyond idiotic imo.
On June 17 2019 06:19 BerserkSword wrote: No matter what anyone, including Blizzard, says, Life is one of the greatest (arguably the GOAT) SC2 players of all time in terms of game skill/prowess/ability.
His violations had nothing to do with his victories - only his losses.
Taking away his titles and honors is one thing. Pretending he never dominated [without cheating] is another.
Anyway, Blizzard's policy of not having his name mentioned by casters is beyond idiotic imo.
Actually I feel like Serral is everything that was good about life + way more.
On June 17 2019 06:19 BerserkSword wrote: No matter what anyone, including Blizzard, says, Life is one of the greatest (arguably the GOAT) SC2 players of all time in terms of game skill/prowess/ability.
His violations had nothing to do with his victories - only his losses.
Taking away his titles and honors is one thing. Pretending he never dominated [without cheating] is another.
Anyway, Blizzard's policy of not having his name mentioned by casters is beyond idiotic imo.
Actually I feel like Serral is everything that was good about life + way more.
Lmfao. Hate as much as u want in him as a person but we have not seen anything remotely resembling life as a zerg player. In all likelihood we never will again. Its a god damn tragedy imo.
On June 17 2019 06:19 BerserkSword wrote: No matter what anyone, including Blizzard, says, Life is one of the greatest (arguably the GOAT) SC2 players of all time in terms of game skill/prowess/ability.
His violations had nothing to do with his victories - only his losses.
Taking away his titles and honors is one thing. Pretending he never dominated [without cheating] is another.
Anyway, Blizzard's policy of not having his name mentioned by casters is beyond idiotic imo.
Actually I feel like Serral is everything that was good about life + way more.
Lmfao. Hate as much as u want in him as a person but we have not seen anything remotely resembling life as a zerg player. In all likelihood we never will again. Its a god damn tragedy imo.
Whats also a tragedy is how much he was liked and what he could have accomplished. All the rivalries he could have had (Maru vs. Life, sOs vs. Life) a real shame that we might still have Proleague and maybe, with the foreigners that have been coming to GSL, the gap could have been closes. Instead we have just Serral and every so often Neeb and Special.
On June 17 2019 06:19 BerserkSword wrote: No matter what anyone, including Blizzard, says, Life is one of the greatest (arguably the GOAT) SC2 players of all time in terms of game skill/prowess/ability.
His violations had nothing to do with his victories - only his losses.
Taking away his titles and honors is one thing. Pretending he never dominated [without cheating] is another.
Anyway, Blizzard's policy of not having his name mentioned by casters is beyond idiotic imo.
Actually I feel like Serral is everything that was good about life + way more.
Serral is nothing like Life. Life was an aggressive Zerg who used his incredible mechanics and game sense to force wins in almost any scenario. Serral is just a (very good) solid macro Zerg like soO or Soulkey at their primes.
On June 17 2019 06:19 BerserkSword wrote: No matter what anyone, including Blizzard, says, Life is one of the greatest (arguably the GOAT) SC2 players of all time in terms of game skill/prowess/ability.
His violations had nothing to do with his victories - only his losses.
Taking away his titles and honors is one thing. Pretending he never dominated [without cheating] is another.
Anyway, Blizzard's policy of not having his name mentioned by casters is beyond idiotic imo.
Actually I feel like Serral is everything that was good about life + way more.
Serral is nothing like Life. Life was an aggressive Zerg who used his incredible mechanics and game sense to force wins in almost any scenario. Serral is just a (very good) solid macro Zerg like soO or Soulkey at their primes.
I agree. Playstyle wise Dark is more similar to Life than Serral
On June 16 2019 02:33 Fango wrote: Sad for JYP, right before the finals as well
On June 16 2019 01:45 Elentos wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:44 stilt wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote: I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really. And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet. What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today.
This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish.
They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life.
I don't think it's an official rule for them not to talk about Life, but I remember Artosis saying on stream that the casters had decided amongst themselves not to bring him up. The only one I saw talk about him after the scandel was Wolf
Whatever Life did that got him banned, the way he played the game was genius. To this day I've never seen anyone impress me like he did.
Blizzard's pathetic attempt at rewriting history won't change that for me.
Rommel was a nazi, but that doesn't negate his strategic brilliance, or make anyone try to erase him from the history books. Good thing they're doing it to a video game player though, keep our feeble minds pure and untainted
I swear the people who write these comments live in a bubble where matchfixers only harmed themselves and not anyone else. Blizzard giving any credit to Life would be an insult to all the players and coaches who lost their jobs because of matchfixers (of which Life was by far the most damaging in sc2). Not to mention any potential up and coming or future players that never happened after the scandal.
You can't help kill a scene then expect that same scene to honour all your achievements.
Yet there are sports like baseball where cheaters get short suspensions and are inducted into the Hall Of Fame. I'm talking about grown men, not some kid playing a video game. Also those players cheated to win, ask anyone if Life didn't win his matches and trophies on skill and talent.
I could also mention the institutionalized corruption in KESPA, but I don't think any reasonable argument would work with you.
I wonder if baseball lost most of it's pro players, as well as it's most important league/source of income partly (not entirely, but still) because of those cheaters?
Life didn't cheat and receive a standardised ban, he matchfixed. There's a massive difference there. Whether you like it or not the actions of matchfixers assisted in killing korean sc2. Proleague was still fairly popular until the scandal at the start of 2016, post scandal it was pretty clear it lost a good portion of it's audience. How would you feel as a player or coach who lost their job seeing Life honoured by blizzard as one of the greats?
Edit: Especially given what happened in BW. Any pro korean player knew the potential consequences of matchfixing and the impact it can have on a scene. No excuses.
Absolutely 100% with this.
I still admire his play and rewatch some classic series featuring him, I think not mentioning him is entirely appropriate.
That other sports don’t do this is a fault on them, not a fault with SC’s zero tolerance on match-fixing and whatnot
On June 16 2019 02:33 Fango wrote: Sad for JYP, right before the finals as well
On June 16 2019 01:45 Elentos wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:44 stilt wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:34 Veluvian wrote: I remember back in WoL when JYP had a huge PvZ while streaming as a progamer. Although that did not worked well in that terrain domination era in offline tournaments. Great guy really. And of course I'm happy for Dark. He was right on the interview, he did some tiny mistakes but in general he was enormously good and Hurricane did everything wrong. Still this is very good tournament for the protoss guy, he deserves more respect rather it was clear he is not ready for a final yet. What a paradox is the memory itself I'm thinking. Tastosis still can't remember that Life was the last Code S Z champion, but probably the reasons are clear why he is so easily forgotten today.
This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish.
They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life.
I don't think it's an official rule for them not to talk about Life, but I remember Artosis saying on stream that the casters had decided amongst themselves not to bring him up. The only one I saw talk about him after the scandel was Wolf
Whatever Life did that got him banned, the way he played the game was genius. To this day I've never seen anyone impress me like he did.
Blizzard's pathetic attempt at rewriting history won't change that for me.
Rommel was a nazi, but that doesn't negate his strategic brilliance, or make anyone try to erase him from the history books. Good thing they're doing it to a video game player though, keep our feeble minds pure and untainted
I swear the people who write these comments live in a bubble where matchfixers only harmed themselves and not anyone else. Blizzard giving any credit to Life would be an insult to all the players and coaches who lost their jobs because of matchfixers (of which Life was by far the most damaging in sc2). Not to mention any potential up and coming or future players that never happened after the scandal.
You can't help kill a scene then expect that same scene to honour all your achievements.
Yet there are sports like baseball where cheaters get short suspensions and are inducted into the Hall Of Fame. I'm talking about grown men, not some kid playing a video game. Also those players cheated to win, ask anyone if Life didn't win his matches and trophies on skill and talent.
I could also mention the institutionalized corruption in KESPA, but I don't think any reasonable argument would work with you.
I wonder if baseball lost most of it's pro players, as well as it's most important league/source of income partly (not entirely, but still) because of those cheaters?
Life didn't cheat and receive a standardised ban, he matchfixed. There's a massive difference there. Whether you like it or not the actions of matchfixers assisted in killing korean sc2. Proleague was still fairly popular until the scandal at the start of 2016, post scandal it was pretty clear it lost a good portion of it's audience. How would you feel as a player or coach who lost their job seeing Life honoured by blizzard as one of the greats?
Edit: Especially given what happened in BW. Any pro korean player knew the potential consequences of matchfixing and the impact it can have on a scene. No excuses.
Absolutely 100% with this.
I still admire his play and rewatch some classic series featuring him, I think not mentioning him is entirely appropriate.
That other sports don’t do this is a fault on them, not a fault with SC’s zero tolerance on match-fixing and whatnot
On June 16 2019 02:33 Fango wrote: Sad for JYP, right before the finals as well
On June 16 2019 01:45 Elentos wrote:
On June 16 2019 01:44 stilt wrote: [quote]
This oversight is really cringy imo, I love Tasteless but not telling his nick is prudish.
They're probably just straight up not supposed to talk about Life.
I don't think it's an official rule for them not to talk about Life, but I remember Artosis saying on stream that the casters had decided amongst themselves not to bring him up. The only one I saw talk about him after the scandel was Wolf
Whatever Life did that got him banned, the way he played the game was genius. To this day I've never seen anyone impress me like he did.
Blizzard's pathetic attempt at rewriting history won't change that for me.
Rommel was a nazi, but that doesn't negate his strategic brilliance, or make anyone try to erase him from the history books. Good thing they're doing it to a video game player though, keep our feeble minds pure and untainted
I swear the people who write these comments live in a bubble where matchfixers only harmed themselves and not anyone else. Blizzard giving any credit to Life would be an insult to all the players and coaches who lost their jobs because of matchfixers (of which Life was by far the most damaging in sc2). Not to mention any potential up and coming or future players that never happened after the scandal.
You can't help kill a scene then expect that same scene to honour all your achievements.
Yet there are sports like baseball where cheaters get short suspensions and are inducted into the Hall Of Fame. I'm talking about grown men, not some kid playing a video game. Also those players cheated to win, ask anyone if Life didn't win his matches and trophies on skill and talent.
I could also mention the institutionalized corruption in KESPA, but I don't think any reasonable argument would work with you.
I wonder if baseball lost most of it's pro players, as well as it's most important league/source of income partly (not entirely, but still) because of those cheaters?
Life didn't cheat and receive a standardised ban, he matchfixed. There's a massive difference there. Whether you like it or not the actions of matchfixers assisted in killing korean sc2. Proleague was still fairly popular until the scandal at the start of 2016, post scandal it was pretty clear it lost a good portion of it's audience. How would you feel as a player or coach who lost their job seeing Life honoured by blizzard as one of the greats?
Edit: Especially given what happened in BW. Any pro korean player knew the potential consequences of matchfixing and the impact it can have on a scene. No excuses.
Absolutely 100% with this.
I still admire his play and rewatch some classic series featuring him, I think not mentioning him is entirely appropriate.
That other sports don’t do this is a fault on them, not a fault with SC’s zero tolerance on match-fixing and whatnot
I don't know if you've noticed we're 100 years ahead now and the society evolved. Especially don't use US 100-year old decision as an example, becuase US has some skeletons which are not appropriate(edit> meant as an example of a good decision, back in the time the decision usually was valid for the society they lived in) for a discussion in the 21st century(e.g. US citizenship and territories)
EPT
![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/GSL/2019/codes2/renaissancebanner.jpg)
JYP's official departure from the casting desk. Due to an abrupt summons to fulfill his military service, the four-year GSL analyst was forced to make the semifinals his last match, and will be unable to bring his Protoss expertise to the finals broadcast.
