WCS Winter Americas came to a conclusion befitting its name as America's Neeb defeated Canada's Scarlett in the grand finals to claim the $12,000 first place prize. The victory gave Neeb his fourth career WCS Circuit title, as well the #1 spot in the 2019 WCS Circuit standings.
Scarlett brought three consecutive all-in builds to open the grand finals but was only able to take one map before being thwarted by composed defensive stands from Neeb. Scarlett tied the series up at 2-2 by adapting to Neeb's two-Stargate Phoenix opener in game four, but Neeb took the lead right back after shutting down a fast Nydus-Swarm Host strategy in game five. The American Protoss then closed the series out in game six by crippling Scarlett's economy with an early Glaive-Adept attack, followed by a march of Zealots, Immortals, and Archons to extract the final GG.
The Neeb-Scarlett finals card seemed like a foregone conclusion once Mexico's SpeCial suffered his shock elimination in the round of 16, leaving no clear challengers to the two icons of the North American StarCraft II scene. While China's rising star TIME put in strong performances throughout the course of WCS Winter, even defeating Neeb 2-0 during the group stage, he fell 2-3 to the cunning veteran MaSa in the playoff gauntlet. As for MaSa himself, he was unable to deliver another one of his vintage wild card performances (having defeated both Scarlett and Neeb in some prior WCS Challenger tournaments), as he was eliminated by Neeb in the semifinals.
WCS Winter will conclude with the Europe playoffs on Sunday, Apr 07 3:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00).
On April 07 2019 10:01 Boggyb wrote: That was the worst finals of a major event since WCS Valenica last year.
It certainly felt like the final games lacked energy. But it could also be that this format/way it was organized makes the event last about 6 hours longer then it should. That being said, but thanks to the casters and big congrats to Neeb!
On April 07 2019 10:01 Boggyb wrote: That was the worst finals of a major event since WCS Valenica last year.
It certainly felt like the final games lacked energy. But it could also be that this format/way it was organized makes the event last about 6 hours longer then it should. That being said, but thanks to the casters and big congrats to Neeb!
Other than the FFA between the semis and the finals (how long are the breaks normally?), this was pretty similar to any other for both Scarlett and Neeb, so I don't think fatigue was a real issue. I didn't watch it till the end, so I wasn't fatigued either.
On April 07 2019 10:01 Boggyb wrote: That was the worst finals of a major event since WCS Valenica last year.
It certainly felt like the final games lacked energy. But it could also be that this format/way it was organized makes the event last about 6 hours longer then it should. That being said, but thanks to the casters and big congrats to Neeb!
Other than the FFA between the semis and the finals (how long are the breaks normally?), this was pretty similar to any other for both Scarlett and Neeb, so I don't think fatigue was a real issue. I didn't watch it till the end, so I wasn't fatigued either.
On the caster side I can just say I don't think I or nate felt fatigued but it's really hard to authentically hype up the games more than we did when every game but one is pretty one sided and also under 9 minutes. I am the biggest neeb and scarlett fanboy and even I was a little disappointed by how one sided and straightforward most of those games were. And I was actively hyping myself up for it being the finals and a classic rematch before the series started.
Game times: Game 1: 5:07 Game 2: 7:30 Game 3: 6:13 Game 4: 11:30 Game 5: 8:12 Game 6: 9:20
Just to note some of these games were actually entirely over minutes before the tap out.
Cool, I missed the finals because I tuned in between the semis and the FFA. I tuned out a few minutes into the FFA because they are unbelievably boring. Really stupid idea to run an FFA that will drive viewers away before the actual finals takes place.
On April 07 2019 11:51 yht9657 wrote: Probably the first premier event I've watched that feels like some weekly online cup.
yea that's what i got out of it myself like this the finals of the championship but sounded and felt just a weekend tourny not a months-long fight for the title and honestly I feel the players should feel some responsibly for that there play just seemed like they were playing like just another day on the ladder.
On April 07 2019 10:01 Boggyb wrote: That was the worst finals of a major event since WCS Valenica last year.
It certainly felt like the final games lacked energy. But it could also be that this format/way it was organized makes the event last about 6 hours longer then it should. That being said, but thanks to the casters and big congrats to Neeb!
Other than the FFA between the semis and the finals (how long are the breaks normally?), this was pretty similar to any other for both Scarlett and Neeb, so I don't think fatigue was a real issue. I didn't watch it till the end, so I wasn't fatigued either.
On the caster side I can just say I don't think I or nate felt fatigued but it's really hard to authentically hype up the games more than we did when every game but one is pretty one sided and also under 9 minutes. I am the biggest neeb and scarlett fanboy and even I was a little disappointed by how one sided and straightforward most of those games were. And I was actively hyping myself up for it being the finals and a classic rematch before the series started.
Game times: Game 1: 5:07 Game 2: 7:30 Game 3: 6:13 Game 4: 11:30 Game 5: 8:12 Game 6: 9:20
Just to note some of these games were actually entirely over minutes before the tap out.
honestly, it seems like Scarlett doesn't care all that much anymore how she plays neeb looked ok but still a little lackluster but Scarlett idk iam a fan i really wish her well but it just seems like she doesn't care shes just trying to get by.
On April 07 2019 10:01 Boggyb wrote: That was the worst finals of a major event since WCS Valenica last year.
It certainly felt like the final games lacked energy. But it could also be that this format/way it was organized makes the event last about 6 hours longer then it should. That being said, but thanks to the casters and big congrats to Neeb!
Other than the FFA between the semis and the finals (how long are the breaks normally?), this was pretty similar to any other for both Scarlett and Neeb, so I don't think fatigue was a real issue. I didn't watch it till the end, so I wasn't fatigued either.
On the caster side I can just say I don't think I or nate felt fatigued but it's really hard to authentically hype up the games more than we did when every game but one is pretty one sided and also under 9 minutes. I am the biggest neeb and scarlett fanboy and even I was a little disappointed by how one sided and straightforward most of those games were. And I was actively hyping myself up for it being the finals and a classic rematch before the series started.
Game times: Game 1: 5:07 Game 2: 7:30 Game 3: 6:13 Game 4: 11:30 Game 5: 8:12 Game 6: 9:20
Just to note some of these games were actually entirely over minutes before the tap out.
honestly, it seems like Scarlett doesn't care all that much anymore how she plays neeb looked ok but still a little lackluster but Scarlett idk iam a fan i really wish her well but it just seems like she doesn't care shes just trying to get by.
I agree! I feel as though she can only win with aggression and once it's figured out she's doomed. Wish she had a more macro style these days.
On April 07 2019 10:01 Boggyb wrote: That was the worst finals of a major event since WCS Valenica last year.
It certainly felt like the final games lacked energy. But it could also be that this format/way it was organized makes the event last about 6 hours longer then it should. That being said, but thanks to the casters and big congrats to Neeb!
Other than the FFA between the semis and the finals (how long are the breaks normally?), this was pretty similar to any other for both Scarlett and Neeb, so I don't think fatigue was a real issue. I didn't watch it till the end, so I wasn't fatigued either.
On the caster side I can just say I don't think I or nate felt fatigued but it's really hard to authentically hype up the games more than we did when every game but one is pretty one sided and also under 9 minutes. I am the biggest neeb and scarlett fanboy and even I was a little disappointed by how one sided and straightforward most of those games were. And I was actively hyping myself up for it being the finals and a classic rematch before the series started.
Game times: Game 1: 5:07 Game 2: 7:30 Game 3: 6:13 Game 4: 11:30 Game 5: 8:12 Game 6: 9:20
Just to note some of these games were actually entirely over minutes before the tap out.
honestly, it seems like Scarlett doesn't care all that much anymore how she plays neeb looked ok but still a little lackluster but Scarlett idk iam a fan i really wish her well but it just seems like she doesn't care shes just trying to get by.
Just to be clear, not placing any blame on scarlett. I don’t know the reasons she picked to play the way she did. Just justifying why energy on caster side felt a bit lower than a usual final.
On April 07 2019 10:01 Boggyb wrote: That was the worst finals of a major event since WCS Valenica last year.
It certainly felt like the final games lacked energy. But it could also be that this format/way it was organized makes the event last about 6 hours longer then it should. That being said, but thanks to the casters and big congrats to Neeb!
Other than the FFA between the semis and the finals (how long are the breaks normally?), this was pretty similar to any other for both Scarlett and Neeb, so I don't think fatigue was a real issue. I didn't watch it till the end, so I wasn't fatigued either.
On the caster side I can just say I don't think I or nate felt fatigued but it's really hard to authentically hype up the games more than we did when every game but one is pretty one sided and also under 9 minutes. I am the biggest neeb and scarlett fanboy and even I was a little disappointed by how one sided and straightforward most of those games were. And I was actively hyping myself up for it being the finals and a classic rematch before the series started.
Game times: Game 1: 5:07 Game 2: 7:30 Game 3: 6:13 Game 4: 11:30 Game 5: 8:12 Game 6: 9:20
Just to note some of these games were actually entirely over minutes before the tap out.
honestly, it seems like Scarlett doesn't care all that much anymore how she plays neeb looked ok but still a little lackluster but Scarlett idk iam a fan i really wish her well but it just seems like she doesn't care shes just trying to get by.
Just to be clear, not placing any blame on scarlett. I don’t know the reasons she picked to play the way she did. Just justifying why energy on caster side felt a bit lower than a usual final.
no yea didnt mean to suggest you were but thats just the feeling i got from her today and yea the cast wasnt all that great but to be honest you all didnt have alot to work with. i hope next wcs is alot better because if its like this again the viewers ship is going to go sub 5k imo i know you all do your best and you give what the players give you and maybe people need to start telling the players that if they dont have views they dont have tournmants.
On April 07 2019 10:01 Boggyb wrote: That was the worst finals of a major event since WCS Valenica last year.
It certainly felt like the final games lacked energy. But it could also be that this format/way it was organized makes the event last about 6 hours longer then it should. That being said, but thanks to the casters and big congrats to Neeb!
Other than the FFA between the semis and the finals (how long are the breaks normally?), this was pretty similar to any other for both Scarlett and Neeb, so I don't think fatigue was a real issue. I didn't watch it till the end, so I wasn't fatigued either.
On the caster side I can just say I don't think I or nate felt fatigued but it's really hard to authentically hype up the games more than we did when every game but one is pretty one sided and also under 9 minutes. I am the biggest neeb and scarlett fanboy and even I was a little disappointed by how one sided and straightforward most of those games were. And I was actively hyping myself up for it being the finals and a classic rematch before the series started.
Game times: Game 1: 5:07 Game 2: 7:30 Game 3: 6:13 Game 4: 11:30 Game 5: 8:12 Game 6: 9:20
Just to note some of these games were actually entirely over minutes before the tap out.
honestly, it seems like Scarlett doesn't care all that much anymore how she plays neeb looked ok but still a little lackluster but Scarlett idk iam a fan i really wish her well but it just seems like she doesn't care shes just trying to get by.
Hasn't she always gone for a ton of cheese against Neeb (or at least for the last few years). It's just her preferred playstyle against a player she knows really well.
On April 07 2019 13:06 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Hasn't she always gone for a ton of cheese against Neeb (or at least for the last few years). It's just her preferred playstyle against a player she knows really well.
Pretty much. I'm trying to think of a time she didn't play him super aggro/cheesy in LotV and I'm coming up with the IEM PyeongChang qualifiers where IIRC she won multiple macro games. But ZvP balance was WoL levels of horrid and lurkers were countering their counter (immortals), so she probably didn't see a need to take big risks.
On April 07 2019 10:01 Boggyb wrote: That was the worst finals of a major event since WCS Valenica last year.
It certainly felt like the final games lacked energy. But it could also be that this format/way it was organized makes the event last about 6 hours longer then it should. That being said, but thanks to the casters and big congrats to Neeb!
Other than the FFA between the semis and the finals (how long are the breaks normally?), this was pretty similar to any other for both Scarlett and Neeb, so I don't think fatigue was a real issue. I didn't watch it till the end, so I wasn't fatigued either.
On the caster side I can just say I don't think I or nate felt fatigued but it's really hard to authentically hype up the games more than we did when every game but one is pretty one sided and also under 9 minutes. I am the biggest neeb and scarlett fanboy and even I was a little disappointed by how one sided and straightforward most of those games were. And I was actively hyping myself up for it being the finals and a classic rematch before the series started.
Game times: Game 1: 5:07 Game 2: 7:30 Game 3: 6:13 Game 4: 11:30 Game 5: 8:12 Game 6: 9:20
Just to note some of these games were actually entirely over minutes before the tap out.
honestly, it seems like Scarlett doesn't care all that much anymore how she plays neeb looked ok but still a little lackluster but Scarlett idk iam a fan i really wish her well but it just seems like she doesn't care shes just trying to get by.
Hasn't she always gone for a ton of cheese against Neeb (or at least for the last few years). It's just her preferred playstyle against a player she knows really well.
i just think she honestly doesnt care a hole about sc in general to be honest i think she sees the writing on the wall that wcs prollys not going to be here in the near future so she just getting what she can and not go the extra mile to me that how i see her performances lately. maybe she does but it doesnt seem like it. and in general most of the players seem not to excited about sc there just there to be there because they dont have anything else to fall back on.
On April 07 2019 13:06 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Hasn't she always gone for a ton of cheese against Neeb (or at least for the last few years). It's just her preferred playstyle against a player she knows really well.
Pretty much. I'm trying to think of a time she didn't play him super aggro/cheesy in LotV and I'm coming up with the IEM PyeongChang qualifiers where IIRC she won multiple macro games. But ZvP balance was WoL levels of horrid and lurkers were countering their counter (immortals), so she probably didn't see a need to take big risks.
shes been doing the same build order for awhile now everyone knows what shes goin to do she just hopes they make a some mistakes and she takes advantage but she doesnt bring anything new to her game.
Scarlett won IEM Pyeongcheng cheesing sOs, Scarlett is just a cheesy ZvP player so we shouldn’t be surprised. It looks brilliant when it works and sad when it doesn’t.
On April 07 2019 14:12 sudete wrote: Well, Scarlett was just trying to play the way that would give her the best chance of winning so I don't blame her.
Anyway, congrats neeb for navigating through so much cheesy business!
thats the thing though i honestly dont think she cares if she wins or loses shes just here because well this has been her life for the past 8 years.
On April 07 2019 13:21 Zzoram wrote: Scarlett won IEM Pyeongcheng cheesing sOs, Scarlett is just a cheesy ZvP player so we shouldn’t be surprised. It looks brilliant when it works and sad when it doesn’t.
Yeeeah that sorta how it works. sOs would be myungsik without those fucking championships, and that's fine.
I think it would help to have some sort of actual fan presence in the ESL studio. I know its not the largest venue but they used to be able to house 50-70 people when it was open to the public (pushing closer to 100 during the finals). I know the games were lacking but having an actual audience I think would certainly help a little
In fairness, Neeb's late game PvZ is really strong so I think it was wise of her to play aggressively in the early game. She gambled on surprising him with repeated all-ins and unfortunately, Neeb did not tilt or play with the expectation that she should play standard after winning a game with an all-in. I hope she'll eventually win a WCS this year. Was a big shame that Scarlett and Reynor didn't make Blizzcon last year; I think they were both definitely top 8 foreigners in terms of skill.
On April 07 2019 14:12 sudete wrote: Well, Scarlett was just trying to play the way that would give her the best chance of winning so I don't blame her.
Anyway, congrats neeb for navigating through so much cheesy business!
thats the thing though i honestly dont think she cares if she wins or loses shes just here because well this has been her life for the past 8 years.
On April 07 2019 13:21 Zzoram wrote: Scarlett won IEM Pyeongcheng cheesing sOs, Scarlett is just a cheesy ZvP player so we shouldn’t be surprised. It looks brilliant when it works and sad when it doesn’t.
On April 07 2019 14:12 sudete wrote: Well, Scarlett was just trying to play the way that would give her the best chance of winning so I don't blame her.
Anyway, congrats neeb for navigating through so much cheesy business!
thats the thing though i honestly dont think she cares if she wins or loses shes just here because well this has been her life for the past 8 years.
Well, she has made like 30k $ + salaries in 3 months of competition... basically more than every foreigner except for Serral and Neeb.... and she's third at WCS standings atm....
That's pretty ok for "just being there and not caring"....
The fact that she loses to Neeb or Serral shouldn't surprise us, basically because both of them are clearly better SC2 players than Scarlett, even when she can be able to beat them.
No way that's a premier lol. Also a tournament that exclude all European and korean player can have that much of a weight (same goes for the European one).
it doesn't meet this requirement either "Top 16 players of the tournament played offline" it was only top 6 played offline, neither of these WCS Winter events should count as Premier, they're not even close
Liquipedia definitions of what's premier or not are sometimes off so I don't really care anymore what they call it. They don't consider Serral's HSC win premier for some reason despite having the same prizepool (20k) as a lot of HSCs that are considered premier. Also they count Crossfinals and SSL challenger premier for some reason.
Liquipedia definitions of what's premier or not are sometimes off so I don't really care anymore what they call it. They don't consider Serral's HSC win premier for some reason despite having the same prizepool (20k) as a lot of HSCs that are considered premier. Also they count Crossfinals and SSL challenger premier for some reason.
SSL Challenger in particular is completely ludicrous to call a Premier. I think WCS Winter is considered a Premier because it's a WCS stop even though it's almost fully online play and region-locked even further than normal.
Liquipedia definitions of what's premier or not are sometimes off so I don't really care anymore what they call it. They don't consider Serral's HSC win premier for some reason despite having the same prizepool (20k) as a lot of HSCs that are considered premier. Also they count Crossfinals and SSL challenger premier for some reason.
Yeah they're not taking those definitions very seriously.
As for the tournament: It was okay, looks good layouts for players but the long wait between some of the games and the extra hour spent doing the FFA between the semi and grand finals was boring. It's like they had a contract to make the event last the whole day even though they only had 6 players and i missed the first minute or two of so many games because i was alt tabbed or afk during a break.
Big Gz to Neeb! Gz to Scarlett too for that second place price money $$
On April 07 2019 16:02 Anc13nt wrote: In fairness, Neeb's late game PvZ is really strong so I think it was wise of her to play aggressively in the early game. She gambled on surprising him with repeated all-ins and unfortunately, Neeb did not tilt or play with the expectation that she should play standard after winning a game with an all-in. I hope she'll eventually win a WCS this year. Was a big shame that Scarlett and Reynor didn't make Blizzcon last year; I think they were both definitely top 8 foreigners in terms of skill.
Scarlet´s lategame is beastly. And she cannot be contesting the crown for best of americas if she isn´t willing to play straightup lategame against her contestants. There must have been other reasons like fatigue or unwillingness to showcase builds.
In any case that was quite a dissappointing final.
Liquipedia definitions of what's premier or not are sometimes off so I don't really care anymore what they call it. They don't consider Serral's HSC win premier for some reason despite having the same prizepool (20k) as a lot of HSCs that are considered premier. Also they count Crossfinals and SSL challenger premier for some reason.
premier tournaments shouldn't be just because of the money they pay out its the quality of the competition that should matter. iem and wesg were premier ones because of the talent of the players that showed up this was one where basically you had 3 a team players going up against the b team.
Liquipedia definitions of what's premier or not are sometimes off so I don't really care anymore what they call it. They don't consider Serral's HSC win premier for some reason despite having the same prizepool (20k) as a lot of HSCs that are considered premier. Also they count Crossfinals and SSL challenger premier for some reason.
premier tournaments shouldn't be just because of the money they pay out its the quality of the competition that should matter. iem and wesg were premier ones because of the talent of the players that showed up this was one where basically you had 3 a team players going up against the b team.
I mentioned the prizepool because I think the reason for why the HSCs Inno and Zest won weren't considered premier was because they had lower prizepool than usual. The HSC Serral won was back to the old prizepool again but still not considered premier.
On April 07 2019 10:01 Boggyb wrote: That was the worst finals of a major event since WCS Valenica last year.
It certainly felt like the final games lacked energy. But it could also be that this format/way it was organized makes the event last about 6 hours longer then it should. That being said, but thanks to the casters and big congrats to Neeb!
Other than the FFA between the semis and the finals (how long are the breaks normally?), this was pretty similar to any other for both Scarlett and Neeb, so I don't think fatigue was a real issue. I didn't watch it till the end, so I wasn't fatigued either.
On the caster side I can just say I don't think I or nate felt fatigued but it's really hard to authentically hype up the games more than we did when every game but one is pretty one sided and also under 9 minutes. I am the biggest neeb and scarlett fanboy and even I was a little disappointed by how one sided and straightforward most of those games were. And I was actively hyping myself up for it being the finals and a classic rematch before the series started.
Game times: Game 1: 5:07 Game 2: 7:30 Game 3: 6:13 Game 4: 11:30 Game 5: 8:12 Game 6: 9:20
Just to note some of these games were actually entirely over minutes before the tap out.
You definitely dont need to defend hyping matches. You guys did just fine. The only hilarious thing you missed was the adept recall in the first two minutes of (I believe) game 6 because it was stuck.
I need to say that I really like playing and watching sc2 this period, I wasn't having this fun since Wings of Liberty, but yeah, this tournament was disappointing. The NA scene is not competitive enough to keep me interested, Neeb won easily and Scarlett was the only contender, as expected. Without merging NA and EU there's no real reason to watch the tournaments really, they are too easy to predict. On top of it, the quality of casting was kinda low, maybe cause I like more in depth analysis from people like Demuslim or Pig than all these memes, that I don't find that funny. Anyway, different people have different tastes and I'm here for the gameplay after all
On April 07 2019 16:02 Anc13nt wrote: In fairness, Neeb's late game PvZ is really strong so I think it was wise of her to play aggressively in the early game. She gambled on surprising him with repeated all-ins and unfortunately, Neeb did not tilt or play with the expectation that she should play standard after winning a game with an all-in. I hope she'll eventually win a WCS this year. Was a big shame that Scarlett and Reynor didn't make Blizzcon last year; I think they were both definitely top 8 foreigners in terms of skill.
Scarlet´s lategame is beastly. And she cannot be contesting the crown for best of americas if she isn´t willing to play straightup lategame against her contestants. There must have been other reasons like fatigue or unwillingness to showcase builds.
In any case that was quite a dissappointing final.
Considering she should have first and foremost prepped for Neeb, has no other important tournaments at this time and was the only player who only had to play 1 series no matter what, I'd say it's way more likely that she didn't think she could win a normal game against Neeb.
Well, this was basically an Americas Challenger with a top6 offline, so not surprised for the "poor" level showed in terms of play, specially after coming from IEM, GSL or WESG...
Also, the one match supposed to be high level, Scarlett vs Neeb, was lackluster due to Scarlett not wanting to play beyond midgame. Which btw is surprising for me because right now I think Zerg is favoured in late game scenarios vs the other 2 races, and Scarlett has shown in WESG, IEM or WCS that she does pretty well at those... But I guess she wasn't feeling confident in lategame vs Neeb, and she knows her strengths and weakness more than us, so it is what it is
I think format is a major problem too. To be honest the Round of 8 round robin was a lot more exciting because the placement, literally every single game, really mattered to the players, and it was exciting for us viewers to watch 8 people duke it out in 28 series with different strategies and styles (In fact, I remember the complaint being there were too many great games being on at the same time that you can't watch all of them at once).
The Round of 6 is more like a glorified showmatch. For one it's less exciting because we've already seen all of these players play each other 2 weeks ago. Second, the top players are already guaranteed a top placing spot so there's less incentive for them to win. For example Scarlett will take the silver even if she loses 0-4, and her only incentive to win a Bo7 (also there's a lack of momentum from a winning streak here) is getting $4000 more dollars and 500 more WCS points (and the title of "beating Neeb in a Bo7"). The only potential hype is the upsets/winning streaks from the lower brackets, but the odds are stacked against this possibility because first we've already seen these people lose to the high placing players, and they also have to spend more stamina playing more matches with less preparations, so it's quite unlikely. The only "upset" of the the Ro6 was MaSa beating TIME and honestly that was probably the most exciting series of yesterday.
My recommendation would be to combine the Round Robin and the next round into a single weekend and perhaps change the final round into 4 players moving on from the Round Robin and playing a double elimination. The winner of NA vs EU playing each other is also a great idea.
And I agree with the sentiments that the lack of studio audience and the non-NA related EU FFA (really kills the hype of the final) were downers.
But overall I would say everything up to the Ro6 or even just before the FFA were great! And congrats to Neeb for having a solid start to 2019!
On April 08 2019 00:53 argonautdice wrote: I think format is a major problem too. To be honest the Round of 8 round robin was a lot more exciting because the placement, literally every single game, really mattered to the players, and it was exciting for us viewers to watch 8 people duke it out in 28 series with different strategies and styles (In fact, I remember the complaint being there were too many great games being on at the same time that you can't watch all of them at once).
The Round of 6 is more like a glorified showmatch. For one it's less exciting because we've already seen all of these players play each other 2 weeks ago. Second, the top players are already guaranteed a top placing spot so there's less incentive for them to win. For example Scarlett will take the silver even if she loses 0-4, and her only incentive to win a Bo7 (also there's a lack of momentum from a winning streak here) is getting $4000 more dollars and 500 more WCS points (and the title of "beating Neeb in a Bo7"). The only potential hype is the upsets/winning streaks from the lower brackets, but the odds are stacked against this possibility because first we've already seen these people lose to the high placing players, and they also have to spend more stamina playing more matches with less preparations, so it's quite unlikely. The only "upset" of the the Ro6 was MaSa beating TIME and honestly that was probably the most exciting series of yesterday.
My recommendation would be to combine the Round Robin and the next round into a single weekend and perhaps change the final round into 4 players moving on from the Round Robin and playing a double elimination. The winner of NA vs EU playing each other is also a great idea.
And I agree with the sentiments that the lack of studio audience and the non-NA related EU FFA (really kills the hype of the final) were downers.
But overall I would say everything up to the Ro6 or even just before the FFA were great! And congrats to Neeb for having a solid start to 2019!
On April 08 2019 00:53 argonautdice wrote: I think format is a major problem too. To be honest the Round of 8 round robin was a lot more exciting because the placement, literally every single game, really mattered to the players, and it was exciting for us viewers to watch 8 people duke it out in 28 series with different strategies and styles (In fact, I remember the complaint being there were too many great games being on at the same time that you can't watch all of them at once).
The Round of 6 is more like a glorified showmatch. For one it's less exciting because we've already seen all of these players play each other 2 weeks ago. Second, the top players are already guaranteed a top placing spot so there's less incentive for them to win. For example Scarlett will take the silver even if she loses 0-4, and her only incentive to win a Bo7 (also there's a lack of momentum from a winning streak here) is getting $4000 more dollars and 500 more WCS points (and the title of "beating Neeb in a Bo7"). The only potential hype is the upsets/winning streaks from the lower brackets, but the odds are stacked against this possibility because first we've already seen these people lose to the high placing players, and they also have to spend more stamina playing more matches with less preparations, so it's quite unlikely. The only "upset" of the the Ro6 was MaSa beating TIME and honestly that was probably the most exciting series of yesterday.
My recommendation would be to combine the Round Robin and the next round into a single weekend and perhaps change the final round into 4 players moving on from the Round Robin and playing a double elimination. The winner of NA vs EU playing each other is also a great idea.
And I agree with the sentiments that the lack of studio audience and the non-NA related EU FFA (really kills the hype of the final) were downers.
But overall I would say everything up to the Ro6 or even just before the FFA were great! And congrats to Neeb for having a solid start to 2019!
That's a pretty huge incentive to be honest.
It is really i mean yes 4 thousand is a lot of money but other then that 500 points difference and winning na title isn't all that great in terms of actual competition skill wise the same 3 players are vying for the top I get why Scarlett would decide in her mind that yea shell give hit a good try in playing neeb but at the end she wasn't going to go all out and give it her best shot. she made 8 grand has a really really good shot at Blizzcon now so what was her motivation eh the format just was lacking so yea anyway ill proly get b anned for this post.
Scarlett just did not give a care... Pretty disappointing
The casters were cool... Dunno why they should be responsible for that... Them both bring bfs and.Not caring was tHe problem... Thea habe no sende that this is about entertainment, top...
It feels like someone here owns a few accounts and is trying to spread a really toxic influence by painting an excessively negative picture of things. But of course, we're all allowed our own opinions.
On April 08 2019 05:28 Kimb3r wrote: Scarlett just did not give a care... Pretty disappointing
The casters were cool... Dunno why they should be responsible for that... Them both bring bfs and.Not caring was tHe problem... Thea habe no sende that this is about entertainment, top...
You think she really doesn't care? She just did not play well at all, but to think she didn't want to win is absurd lol
On April 07 2019 10:01 Boggyb wrote: That was the worst finals of a major event since WCS Valenica last year.
It certainly felt like the final games lacked energy. But it could also be that this format/way it was organized makes the event last about 6 hours longer then it should. That being said, but thanks to the casters and big congrats to Neeb!
Other than the FFA between the semis and the finals (how long are the breaks normally?), this was pretty similar to any other for both Scarlett and Neeb, so I don't think fatigue was a real issue. I didn't watch it till the end, so I wasn't fatigued either.
On the caster side I can just say I don't think I or nate felt fatigued but it's really hard to authentically hype up the games more than we did when every game but one is pretty one sided and also under 9 minutes. I am the biggest neeb and scarlett fanboy and even I was a little disappointed by how one sided and straightforward most of those games were. And I was actively hyping myself up for it being the finals and a classic rematch before the series started.
Game times: Game 1: 5:07 Game 2: 7:30 Game 3: 6:13 Game 4: 11:30 Game 5: 8:12 Game 6: 9:20
Just to note some of these games were actually entirely over minutes before the tap out.
ouch. blaming the games and the players? also, the argument doesn't make any sense to me. and if you use the word "hype" as a caster, you are on the wrooong way anyway.
even in seemingly one-sided games/series a caster should be able to spot good decision making, series planning, etc. and be able to appreciate all these things aaand present it in an appealing and interesting way to the audience. where is the story line? don't they teach this in "caster school" anymore?
go watch the 2013 wcs europe s2 finals (duckdeok vs MC). this is how I think it should be done. + Show Spoiler +
Neeb is a top 3 PvZ in the world imo and according to aligulac is the best PvZ in the world
it's ridiculous to assume that scarlett, a pro gamer, "didn't care" about a tournament of this caliber when the more likely scenario is that he knows neeb's pvz abilities as well as anyone and knew that her best chance was to cheese
EPT
![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/WCS2019/Winter/circuitbanner734.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Waxangel/WCS2019/Winter/amgauntlet2.png)
