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Hi,
When a single hatchery is selected and injected, we get to see a progress bar showing Larvae Inject progress.
When multiple hatcheries are selected, as is the most common case to macro effectively, this information no longer appears. Zerg injects are a core macro mechanic and hiding this information is an UI blunder in my opinion.
This can be easily remedied by adding a countdown timer displayed on the hatchery icons in a similar manner to warp gate cool-down display
This has been a pet peeve of mine for years and I've suggested it on blizzards forum multiple times and never got a response. I'm wondering if I'm missing something, would this be too much of a boost for zerg? Or do you guys think is isn't necessary?
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/tca8sWF.png)
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This is not necessary. This will make Zerg SUPER easy since it's one of the basic mechanics that distinguish good zerg players. This would pretty much be a timer that remind you to macro.
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Don't think it will make it super easy, but I do think it will make zerg status more readable. This won't macro for you, but will show where you macro stands. At the moment there is no quick way to see where all your injects are. You literally can't plan for when the larvae will pop without individually checking each hatch.
Also, take note that this already exists on warp gates, so this isn't outside the realm of the game.
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Lack of readability does make the game harder but it does it in a way that I don't think is interesting or satisfying.
Its why they added the unit/worker count display on the supply, not knowing how many workers you have did make the game harder. But it made it harder in a way that didn't contribute to the game.
I think it's the same here, the lack of readability makes zerg macro harder, but in a way that isn't interesting or satisfying. I'd like them to fix it. I don't think this will be the buff that breaks zerg and if it is. Well, not like zerg players aren't used to nerfs.
Having pro players being able to maximize their injects, planning ahead to the exact moment the inject pops will raise the ceiling on zerg macro and would be satisfying and cool to watch. Seeing Seral inject multiple hatches in a heartbeat and having all his clocks in step, then adding another hatch and timing the inject just right so it's synced as well, that would be cool.
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On October 22 2018 17:43 IcemanAsi wrote:
Lack of readability does make the game harder but it does it in a way that I don't think is interesting or satisfying.
Its why they added the unit/worker count display on the supply, not knowing how many workers you have did make the game harder. But it made it harder in a way that didn't contribute to the game.
I think it's the same here, the lack of readability makes zerg macro harder, but in a way that isn't interesting or satisfying. I'd like them to fix it. I don't think this will be the buff that breaks zerg and if it is. Well, not like zerg players aren't used to nerfs.
Having pro players being able to maximize their injects, planning ahead to the exact moment the inject pops will raise the ceiling on zerg macro and would be satisfying and cool to watch. Seeing Seral inject multiple hatches in a heartbeat and having all his clocks in step, then adding another hatch and timing the inject just right so it's synced as well, that would be cool.
I also want automuling past 100 energy ( so you can always have a scan available), maybe auto building supply depots and auto splitting would be nice too, maybe this way foreign terrans can win something.
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You're always going to get people who argue that this makes the game too easy, but I think I'm with you on this one. Something like this would be great. Already, most good Zerg players have a single hatchery on a hotkey so that they can check the timer while they're doing other things.
This just makes it so that you can get rid of that hotkey. The mechanical action (tap to check), doesn't change.
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On October 22 2018 17:56 IshinShishi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2018 17:43 IcemanAsi wrote:
Lack of readability does make the game harder but it does it in a way that I don't think is interesting or satisfying.
Its why they added the unit/worker count display on the supply, not knowing how many workers you have did make the game harder. But it made it harder in a way that didn't contribute to the game.
I think it's the same here, the lack of readability makes zerg macro harder, but in a way that isn't interesting or satisfying. I'd like them to fix it. I don't think this will be the buff that breaks zerg and if it is. Well, not like zerg players aren't used to nerfs.
Having pro players being able to maximize their injects, planning ahead to the exact moment the inject pops will raise the ceiling on zerg macro and would be satisfying and cool to watch. Seeing Seral inject multiple hatches in a heartbeat and having all his clocks in step, then adding another hatch and timing the inject just right so it's synced as well, that would be cool.
I also want automuling past 100 energy ( so you can always have a scan available), maybe auto building supply depots and auto splitting would be nice too, maybe this way foreign terrans can win something.
Only this does nothing for you, it's a display, not an action.
Also it's information you could get by giving every hatch it's own group, but we got multiple building group creation, and we shouldn't get less information when we you use it.
I'll clarify, I'M NOT SUGGESTING AUTO-INJECT. I'm suggesting a display of injection timers when hatcheries are injected, when multiple hatcheries are selected.
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I'm willing to wager 9/10 people who read (and accurately comprehend) what you wrote would nonchalantly agree that this should absolutely be a part of the game and then they move on with their day without bothering to post their sentiments on the matter. The 1/10 who disagree are significantly more likely to actually respond to your post, and their arguments are typically marred by poor logic, grammar or glaring reading comprehension issues. This is known as a negative response bias.
Nothing about this change reduces the mechanical difficulty.
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On October 22 2018 18:09 IcemanAsi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2018 17:56 IshinShishi wrote:On October 22 2018 17:43 IcemanAsi wrote:
Lack of readability does make the game harder but it does it in a way that I don't think is interesting or satisfying.
Its why they added the unit/worker count display on the supply, not knowing how many workers you have did make the game harder. But it made it harder in a way that didn't contribute to the game.
I think it's the same here, the lack of readability makes zerg macro harder, but in a way that isn't interesting or satisfying. I'd like them to fix it. I don't think this will be the buff that breaks zerg and if it is. Well, not like zerg players aren't used to nerfs.
Having pro players being able to maximize their injects, planning ahead to the exact moment the inject pops will raise the ceiling on zerg macro and would be satisfying and cool to watch. Seeing Seral inject multiple hatches in a heartbeat and having all his clocks in step, then adding another hatch and timing the inject just right so it's synced as well, that would be cool.
I also want automuling past 100 energy ( so you can always have a scan available), maybe auto building supply depots and auto splitting would be nice too, maybe this way foreign terrans can win something. Only this does nothing for you, it's a display, not an action. Also it's information you could get by giving every hatch it's own group, but we got multiple building group creation, and we shouldn't get less information when we you use it. I'll clarify, I'M NOT SUGGESTING AUTO-INJECT. I'm suggesting a display of injection timers when hatcheries are injected, when multiple hatcheries are selected.
I never said you were, it still makes the game easier for the race that already has the easiest macro, its uncalled for.
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There isn't much point of suggesting things like this on TL. It will always get jumped on by the vocal minority of people whose lives fall apart upon any thought of making SC2 even a tiny bit more friendly to anyone and that will be about it. Blizzard doesn't watch this forum (definitely not for in-game suggestions). It does sometimes happen that a great user suggestion makes it way to the UI, but it had to be something exceptional that gains a lot of "why did I not think about this" responses and it is quite rare. If you get no reactions on b.net (are you posting to the US one, right?) then try r/starcraft on reddit maybe. But TL is mostly hopeless.
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There should also be a button that makes the AI play the game for you.
User was warned for this post.
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The replies to well thought out posts like this reminds me why this community is a garbage fire that deserves everything it gets
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 22 2018 18:49 Charoisaur wrote:
There should also be a button that makes the AI play the game for you.
According to the search this is at least the fourth time you made a post very similar to this with the same message. I think you have made your point and it is enough.
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When you select a group of nexus, each icon should have a clearly readable number which tells you how much energy it has.
When your main army is on creep and the zerg begins surrounding you, the game should politely remind you that, if you want, you can use recall.
When you select a group of HT, it should tell you how many storms you can cast with them, as well as indicators on the ground show what their range is.
The Forge should be bright red when it isn't researching anything. Same for the Cybernetics core.
When buliding a pylon, you should be able to see an overlay which tells you what the energy field that it covers would be.
When an Immortal takes damage, its protrait should tell you how long before its shield comes back up.
If you're playing against zerg and some lings run by an observer, the game should audibly tell you that a ling runby is coming towards your third.
When you build a collosus without range, there should be a bright indicator somewhere that tells you that you have forgotten it. If it is researching, there should be a separate icon to let you know.
By the way - the opposite of the negative response bias, the positive response bias (or the relevancy bias, and the notion of a screener) has the opposite effect. People don't even open a thread if it isn't relevant to them. The vast majority of people that clicked on this post play Zerg.
Point is, the exact principle you used in coming up with this suggestion can be used on the other races in a way that would make most zerg players scream. These changes are just like yours, and yet if Protoss had them then they would do much better on the ladder.
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I would support the nexus energy icon, HT storm counter, pylon field display and immortal portrait. All these things make perfect sense and would just give you better information and control of the interface. You have on purpose scattered silly things among them to make them seem absurd, but they just aren't.
I just don't understand this extremely strong racial bias people have. It's not like you were born Zerg, Terran or Protoss. If my race doesn't immediately benefit from something, it's terrible! Why can't we just have nice things for all races? And if someone thinks that some race is sooo imba, just switch to it, unless you are a pro, it's no big deal.
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Yeah, I'd support quite a few of those, not the audio cues but definitely the nexus energy display and pylon cues. The pylon thing is actually really obvious lack of information. Would strongly support that. It would clutter up the interface a bit, because you build pylons a LOT, so you're going to be seeing that field a lot of the time, but yeah, no reason it shouldn't be there. That's crucial information you should have.
Games are about interesting decisions, the UI should give the information to make those decisions, if you're losing games because the informaion wasn't presented clearly enough, that doesn't make the game more difficult in a positive way. Audio cues of unit sightings would help, but would I agree be a step too far, because the information IS PRESENTED, the units DID SHOW on your mini-map, but did you see them?
Your confusing the difficulty of sensing and reacting to information with presentation of information. Your forge does show it isn't researching, it changes its animation. there IS NO DISPLAY OF INJECTION TIMERS WHEN MULTIPLE HATCHES ARE SELECTED. The information is not presented to you.
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Here's the thing, if you'd think of the SC2 interface as something a real commander would have, it's criminally bad.
Let's take your example- unit runbys:
A unit runs through a spotted area and disappears. And that's what happens in the mini map, it shows, then it's gone.
If you compare it to a military radar display, a radar display would keep that signal lit with a last known direction of movment indicator. think of it like a small arrow pointing at last know direction. signals currently tracked are constantly updated for location and direction of movement.
You'd have automated unit counters, estimated income based on known bases, etc.
Now would I want all that in the game? No. But it's a balancing act.
I want an interface that's clear and aesthetic and easy for new players to pick up.
I want one that shows the most relevant information while still leaving enough room for me to improve.
I mean, why show supply? why show how many minerals you have? you can just have people figure it out in their head.
Hatchery injection is CORE information for zerg, not having it is, well, a bug.
*I would actually really like to see a mod of SC2 with a fully revamped UI, one made by someone with battlefield information UI experience, let me tell you, mini-map, gonna be WAY bigger.
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On October 22 2018 22:21 IcemanAsi wrote:
I mean, why show supply? why show how many minerals you have? you can just have people figure it out in their head.
Hatchery injection is CORE information for zerg, not having it is, well, a bug.
It's way easier to figure out Hatch inject timings in your head though, like just use the ingame clock or something, it's no rocket science to inject every 30 seconds
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On October 22 2018 22:27 TrashPanda wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2018 22:21 IcemanAsi wrote:
I mean, why show supply? why show how many minerals you have? you can just have people figure it out in their head.
Hatchery injection is CORE information for zerg, not having it is, well, a bug.
It's way easier to figure out Hatch inject timings in your head though, like just use the ingame clock or something, it's no rocket science to inject every 30 seconds
For multiple hatches, un-synced, while macroing and microing?
There is a reason why even the best zergs in the world don't have 100% injection up time.
But its not just that, you can tell when the injection poped, because you can see the larvae rise.
You CAN'T tell when it's GOING TO pop, you don't have a display if you got five seconds or twenty.
And having this information would RAISE the skill ceiling on zerg macro.
It would give the best players another tool to plan and improve on their macro cycles.
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The game doesn't need more QoL changes. Pros are difficult enough to separate as it is.
Being able to inject on time is a skill. Some players are better than others because they have that skill.
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EPT
