• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:44
CEST 02:44
KST 09:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202552RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams7Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 656 users

Balance Mod Update Sep 25, 2018

Forum Index > SC2 General
184 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 8 9 10 Next All
hexhaven
Profile Joined July 2014
Finland931 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-25 20:00:11
September 25 2018 19:22 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Earlier this month we announced our post-Blizzcon design patch containing changes aimed at improving StarCraft II multiplayer. Around the same time, members of the balance team were in Montreal to solicit feedback from top players in the World Championship Series circuit. Based on the feedback we received from the community as well as pro players, we decided to expand the scope of our initial balance proposal. Below is a rundown.

PROTOSS

Shield Battery

Health/shields decreased from 200/200 to 150/150.
We’ve been monitoring proxy Shield Battery strategies over the last few months and while we don’t believe they’re unbeatable, we would like to make this strategy slightly more risky. Reducing their total health pool targets weakening offensive usage while mostly maintaining their defensive power. Specifically, this will reduce the number of Corrosive Biles it takes to destroy them from 7 to 5, which should provide Zerg players a clearer response to the strategy.

Warp Prism

Pickup range decreased from 6 to 5.
Warp Prisms received a ranged pickup in Legacy of the Void, and for the most part, we enjoy how it’s worked out so far. Top Protoss players are able to show off their micro abilities, and it helps promote multipronged offensive options.

One area we feel could see some improvement on is the ability for Zerg players ward off Warp Prism/Archon openings. Currently, the combined range of the Prism pickup and the Archon is 9, which outranges the Queen’s anti-air attack by 1. We’d like to reduce pickup range by 1 to allow Queens to interact more meaningfully with Warp Prism play.

We believe this change could help open up many different potential Zerg openers, but we’re also mindful of the fact that Protoss players rely heavily on Warp Prism based tactics. Thus, we’ll be keeping an especially close eye on this change.

Void Ray

Prismatic Alignment speed reduction decreased from 40% to 25%.
Earlier in Legacy of the Void, we added a speed reduction to Prismatic Alignment to prevent Void Rays from overly punishing enemies fighting them. While we’re still satisfied with the direction we took with this change, we believe that we could achieve similar results by toning the speed reduction back a bit.


ZERG

Queen

Transfusion will no longer instantly heal 125 health. Instead, it will instantly heal 75 health and then heal 50 additional health over 7.14 seconds.
For Zerg early game, Queens are integral when dealing with light harass and frontal pushes. They also provide a lot of utility with creep spread and their ability to inject larva. We think the Queen might be a bit too “catch-all” of a unit right now, so we’d like to weaken one of these roles.

With this change, the heal-over-time portion of the heal will no longer stack, weakening the effectiveness of chaining Transfusions on high HP units such as other Queens. Our goal with this change is to push players towards building combat units when facing dedicated aggression while maintaining the Queen’s strength against light harass. Additionally, this reduces the late game power of Queens by lowering the efficiency of rapid Transfusions on units like Ultralisks and Brood Lords.

Creep

Building/Creep Tumor creep generation: Time between creep growth periods increased from 0.3 to 0.45.
Overlord Generate Creep: Time between creep growth periods increased from 0.36 to 0.45.
In the transition from Heart of the Swarm to Legacy of the Void, the Creep growth period was cut in half, from 0.6 to 0.3, to account for other changes made during that period. While this doesn’t practically translate into Creep spreading twice as fast, it has certainly had an effect on Zerg players’ ability to control the map. More recently, after much refinement on the part of Zerg players, we began receiving feedback that Creep spread might be too oppressive, allowing Zerg to control large portions of the map leading into the mid to late game.

To help mitigate this, we’d like to experiment with Creep spread rate, initially by adjusting to a rate that’s halfway between the current live value and the value from Heart of the Swarm. As Creep spread is core to Zerg identity, we’ll be paying close attention to the results of this change.

Roach

Tunneling Claws cost decreased from 150/150 to 100/100.
Tunneling Claws no longer increases the health regeneration of burrowed Roaches from 7 HP/second to 14 HP/second.
In the Zerg vs. Zerg matchup, we see a lot of Tunneling Claws Roaches used to harass mineral lines. While we enjoy both the harass and comeback potential that this ability affords Zerg players, we’ve received a lot of feedback from Zerg players that it might be too good in this role. Because of the high health regeneration with the Tunneling Claws upgrade, it can take over twice the number of defensive Roaches to dislodge harassing Roaches.

In other matchups Tunneling Claws is not seen nearly as much. And when it is used, the moving-while-burrowed functionality is more valued over the additional health regeneration. This set of changes is aimed towards slightly tuning down Roach harass in mirror matches while increasing its potency in other matchups.

Hydralisk

Health increased from 85 to 90.
Needle Spines weapon speed changed from 0.54 to 0.57.
We received feedback from players of all races at Montreal that they’d rather see an attack speed nerf to Hydralisks as opposed to a health nerf. By reducing attack speed instead of health, we can reduce how deadly the Hydralisk is in large armies making it less of an “all-around” unit, while still maintaining its ability to fight units like Oracles cost effectively. Maintaining the higher health also allows Hydralisks to have more back-and-forth interactions with threats like Psionic Storm.

Infestor

Infestor unit radius decreased from 0.75 to 0.625.
Burrowed unit radius now matches the new unborrowed unit radius.
Model scale decreased from 0.85 to 0.75.
Infestors can now move through units while burrowed.
Fungal Growth will no longer allow affected units to Blink, Tactical Jump, or load into transports/buildings.
We’ve heard a lot of feedback that Infestors feel clunky to use so we’d like to make a few tweaks to improve their usability. We’d also like to give Fungal Growth some more utility by restoring some of its old functionality, allowing it to prevent certain movement abilities.

Nydus Network

Nydus Network cost decreased from 200/250 to 150/150.
We received feedback that while many players like the direction of the new Nydus Network, the initial cost might be a bit too high and Nydus all-ins are sufficiently weakened now that the Worm is no longer invulnerable when tunneling. Because we’re also testing tuning back the Queen’s Transfusion ability in the same update, we’d like to see how far we can go with a Nydus Network cost reduction. This is certainly one of the more experimental changes that we’d like to try out, so we’ll be watching closely to how it plays out.

BUG FIXES

Fixed an issue the caused the attack animation of the Colossus to desync when exiting a transport.
Battlecruiser
The ATA attack will now deal 5 damage instead of 8.
Will no longer be able to use its normal attack when using an ability.
Fixed a typo in the Raven’s Anti-Armor Missile description.

These changes will be published to the Testing Matchmaking Queue shortly. As always, we’d like to reiterate that these changes are not final, and we’ll be actively looking at your feedback. Thanks for trying out the new changes and please let us know what you think on the forums or any community sites!



See all the specific changes here:
https://starcraft2.com/en-gb/news/22535491
Facebook Twitter Reddit
WriterI shoot events. | http://www.jussi.co/esports
ZackAttack
Profile Joined June 2011
United States884 Posts
September 25 2018 19:33 GMT
#2
I'm really surprised they are nerfing the archon drop. I understand its not that fun for zergs but I feel like protoss needs to get something in return because every game is stargate into archon drop because its all we have that works.
It's better aerodynamics for space. - Artosis
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
September 25 2018 19:36 GMT
#3
What does "unit radius" mean? They say they will reduce infestor unit radus
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
Psychonian
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2322 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-25 19:40:30
September 25 2018 19:38 GMT
#4
thank GOD for the shield battery nerf

also, rest in peace hyuntralisk
Trans Rights
WeddingEpisode
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States356 Posts
September 25 2018 19:41 GMT
#5
Protoss should just remove Colossus and keep Void Ray the way it is and/or include an additional buff of some sort. Colossus stinks for the game.
Still diamond
bela.mervado
Profile Joined December 2008
Hungary387 Posts
September 25 2018 19:44 GMT
#6
On September 26 2018 04:36 Nakajin wrote:
What does "unit radius" mean? They say they will reduce infestor unit radus

the unit will be smaller, not that huge ass bug that it is currently.
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15943 Posts
September 25 2018 19:45 GMT
#7
Might as well keep the Hydra attack speed, that's the most insignificant change I've ever seen.
Also I fear Nydus worm spam might become too oppressive.
Don't really understand warpprism nerf but the Queen/creep changes are nice.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Pursuit_
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States1330 Posts
September 25 2018 19:47 GMT
#8
On September 26 2018 04:36 Nakajin wrote:
What does "unit radius" mean? They say they will reduce infestor unit radus

The units footprint / collision on the map. Basically means infestors are smaller now.
In Somnis Veritas
bela.mervado
Profile Joined December 2008
Hungary387 Posts
September 25 2018 19:52 GMT
#9
On September 26 2018 04:45 Charoisaur wrote:
Might as well keep the Hydra attack speed, that's the most insignificant change I've ever seen.
Also I fear Nydus worm spam might become too oppressive.
Don't really understand warpprism nerf but the Queen/creep changes are nice.


i dunno.. that's 5%, it's like hydras always have 0.5 attack upgrade disadvantage. certainly not a spectacular change, but something that zergs might be ok with.
Athenau
Profile Joined March 2015
569 Posts
September 25 2018 19:56 GMT
#10
On September 26 2018 04:45 Charoisaur wrote:
Might as well keep the Hydra attack speed, that's the most insignificant change I've ever seen.

Before they reduced the HP by ~5%, now they reduced the dps by ~5%.
MiCroLiFe
Profile Joined March 2012
Norway264 Posts
September 25 2018 19:59 GMT
#11
Finaly an update thats not makin the terrans cry
Im Terran. Yes i will balance whine somethimes. And thats how we terrans survive, Hoping for balance patches<3
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16699 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-25 20:06:40
September 25 2018 20:02 GMT
#12
OP, can you please edit your post to better emphasize this line?
"we decided to expand the scope of our initial balance proposal. Below is a rundown."

Blizzard is introducing a big update.. its more than just altering a few stats on their original proposal.

Its great that Blizzard is continuing to pour resources into an RTS game.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
franzji
Profile Joined September 2013
United States583 Posts
September 25 2018 20:04 GMT
#13
>everyone is sick of only stargate openings in PvZ, what do we do to make robo builds viable, some robo buffs?
>maybe, but zerg players hate how they can't kill archons and warprisms without making units
>oh ok lets nerf the one other good PvZ macro build besides stargate out of the game by reducing warp prism range

- sc2 balance team
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15943 Posts
September 25 2018 20:06 GMT
#14
On September 26 2018 04:56 Athenau wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2018 04:45 Charoisaur wrote:
Might as well keep the Hydra attack speed, that's the most insignificant change I've ever seen.

Before they reduced the HP by ~5%, now they reduced the dps by ~5%.

Oh... yeah I'm dumb
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
OsaX Nymloth
Profile Joined March 2013
Poland3244 Posts
September 25 2018 20:07 GMT
#15
Needle Spines weapon speed changed from 0.54 to 0.57.

How is that even a nerf?

Still don't think this will be enough of a nerf to zerg. Still no word on Swarm Hosts and how laughable new Carriers are. Well, at least it's a step in better direction than first proposed changes.
Twitter: @osaxnymloth
yht9657
Profile Joined December 2016
1810 Posts
September 25 2018 20:11 GMT
#16
Thanks Blizzard for the void ray speed buff (or more like reduced nerf) but still nobody higher than gold is gonna use them because they suck.
washikie
Profile Joined February 2011
United States752 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-09-25 20:21:17
September 25 2018 20:13 GMT
#17
I wonder if infestors will be a new option vs Terran in midgame now that if you fungle a marine drop they cant get back into the medivac. Might allow you to go infestor zergling baneling instead of hydra zergling baneling. Interesting change, I wonder what it will do to players like Maru when they go 2-1-1. And have le 3 groups of medivac marine out on the map, protected by there ability to get into a medivac and fly away.
"when life gives Hero lemons he makes carriers" -Artosis
omop
Profile Joined April 2017
42 Posts
September 25 2018 20:16 GMT
#18
On September 26 2018 05:04 youngjiddle wrote:
>everyone is sick of only stargate openings in PvZ, what do we do to make robo builds viable, some robo buffs?
>maybe, but zerg players hate how they can't kill archons and warprisms without making units
>oh ok lets nerf the one other good PvZ macro build besides stargate out of the game by reducing warp prism range

- sc2 balance team



>Read patch notes but see only one change(usually nerf)
>whine about it neglecting other changes. (robo cost, colossus buff, disrupter change, creep nerf, queen nerf, hydra nerf)
>blame david kim (balance team)

-typical sc2 balance whiner
DomeGetta
Profile Joined February 2012
480 Posts
September 25 2018 20:19 GMT
#19
On September 26 2018 05:04 youngjiddle wrote:
>everyone is sick of only stargate openings in PvZ, what do we do to make robo builds viable, some robo buffs?
>maybe, but zerg players hate how they can't kill archons and warprisms without making units
>oh ok lets nerf the one other good PvZ macro build besides stargate out of the game by reducing warp prism range

- sc2 balance team



This is a bit dramatic lol. There are multiple massive changes in the proposal..we have no idea what the meta is going to look like. Ur robo is a bit cheaper now. Warp prism is one of the most ridiculous units in the game in all mu imo. One less range wont break the build order.
DomeGetta
Profile Joined February 2012
480 Posts
September 25 2018 20:21 GMT
#20
On September 26 2018 05:13 washikie wrote:
I wonder if infestors will be a new option vs Terran in midgame now that if you fungle a marine drop they cant get back into the medivac. Might allow you to go infestor zergling baneling instead of hydra zergling baneling. Interesting change, I wonder what it will do to players like Maru when they go 2-1-1.



Think itll still probably be pretty difficult to have infestor ling bane out when 2 1 1 hits? Also for the cost of them not sure it would be worth it.
1 2 3 4 5 8 9 10 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 16m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 224
StarCraft: Brood War
sSak 59
Sexy 54
NaDa 45
ivOry 16
Dota 2
monkeys_forever1318
League of Legends
Dendi933
JimRising 332
syndereN168
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe300
Other Games
summit1g15053
tarik_tv7388
Day[9].tv769
shahzam664
ViBE259
C9.Mang0175
ToD155
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 115
• davetesta51
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 29
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Day9tv769
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
10h 16m
Serral vs Cure
Solar vs Classic
OSC
13h 16m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 9h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 13h
CSO Cup
1d 15h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 17h
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.