|
Well, that's a ridiculous and disappointing set of suggestions.
Protoss is currently lagging statistically behind by more than 10%, and behind zerg by more than 20%. Protoss has won only one Premier tournament all year, and PvZ specifically hasn't statistically fallen in favour of protoss since July 2016.
Meanwhile, Blizzard's priority is more nerfs to protoss, and specifically nerfs to make the game less fun and more difficult to play. The nerf to shield batteries for the sake of avoiding a niche and rare strategy comes at the cost of being able to defend against early aggression anywhere near as easily. The cavalier throwaway lines "this will reduce the number of Corrosive Biles it takes to destroy them from 7 to 5" but it "weaken[s] offensive usage while mostly maintaining their defensive power" shows how shortsighted and poorly thought out these changes are.
There is just no justification for this current line of changes; they can't be called balance changes because they will make the game less balanced.
|
On September 26 2018 05:11 yht9657 wrote:
Thanks Blizzard for the void ray speed buff (or more like reduced nerf) but still nobody higher than gold is gonna use them because they suck.
Still great for cheese with shield battery vs terran. This will only make that worse..less hp on a battery means a whole lot when you cant build units that can reach them while also trying to not die to the voids lol.
|
Did they ask any Korean pros? I hope so!
|
On September 26 2018 05:24 Yonnua wrote:
Well, that's a ridiculous and disappointing set of suggestions.
Protoss is currently lagging statistically behind by more than 10%, and behind zerg by more than 20%. Protoss has won only one Premier tournament all year, and PvZ specifically hasn't statistically fallen in favour of protoss since July 2016.
Meanwhile, Blizzard's priority is more nerfs to protoss, and specifically nerfs to make the game less fun and more difficult to play. The nerf to shield batteries for the sake of avoiding a niche and rare strategy comes at the cost of being able to defend against early aggression anywhere near as easily. The cavalier throwaway lines "this will reduce the number of Corrosive Biles it takes to destroy them from 7 to 5" but it "weaken[s] offensive usage while mostly maintaining their defensive power" shows how shortsighted and poorly thought out these changes are.
There is just no justification for this current line of changes; they can't be called balance changes because they will make the game less balanced.
I have to agree with you. To me, problem is PvT here. If terrans don't cheese heavily, they face a hard match-up so any protoss change has to consider the fragile balance of PvT.
|
On September 26 2018 05:04 youngjiddle wrote:
>everyone is sick of only stargate openings in PvZ, what do we do to make robo builds viable, some robo buffs?
>maybe, but zerg players hate how they can't kill archons and warprisms without making units
>oh ok lets nerf the one other good PvZ macro build besides stargate out of the game by reducing warp prism range
- sc2 balance team
These changes were decided by EU zergs. The only race they have to worry about in the WCS is protoss. So that's why there are so many PvZ nerfs in this patch.
|
i like most changes. would like to see a colossus buff though.
unit has 120123 counters and isn't even worth the cost and time without any counters on the field
|
On September 26 2018 05:24 Yonnua wrote:
Well, that's a ridiculous and disappointing set of suggestions.
Protoss is currently lagging statistically behind by more than 10%, and behind zerg by more than 20%. Protoss has won only one Premier tournament all year, and PvZ specifically hasn't statistically fallen in favour of protoss since July 2016.
Meanwhile, Blizzard's priority is more nerfs to protoss, and specifically nerfs to make the game less fun and more difficult to play. The nerf to shield batteries for the sake of avoiding a niche and rare strategy comes at the cost of being able to defend against early aggression anywhere near as easily. The cavalier throwaway lines "this will reduce the number of Corrosive Biles it takes to destroy them from 7 to 5" but it "weaken[s] offensive usage while mostly maintaining their defensive power" shows how shortsighted and poorly thought out these changes are.
There is just no justification for this current line of changes; they can't be called balance changes because they will make the game less balanced.
I disagree, I think the changes sounds reasonable. Obviously P needs some buffer at the moment, especially against Z and all the nerfs to Z seems to hit at that pretty well. Regarding shield batteries, the nerf mostly effects offensive pushes with batteries or if Z attacks with roaches. Biles is basically the only way a defensive protoss should have their shield battery destroyed since the P usually have army in front of them. I don't believe the health and shield nerf will effect the defensive power of the battery as much you make it sound.
|
Design wise I love all these changes. The numbers on the creep and hydras will take some time to figure out if the adjustments are to small or too large (hydras might be like .01-.03 too small, creep too large).
|
my immediate reaction to heal-over-time transfuse is that i'm going to start the baneling transfuse meta in early game ZvZ to keep them alive forever when my opponent tries the 1-2 ling snipe on them
as for warp prism range, i am a protoss player as well, but i think complaining about -1 pickup range is an absolutely ridiculous joke. WP micro will still be stupid strong and range pickup will still allow for comfortable, effective harass. you'll just have to be one hex better at it.
it reminds me of when terrans thought overlord speed buff was going to break zvt LOLLLL
|
On September 26 2018 05:24 Yonnua wrote:
Well, that's a ridiculous and disappointing set of suggestions.
Protoss is currently lagging statistically behind by more than 10%, and behind zerg by more than 20%. Protoss has won only one Premier tournament all year, and PvZ specifically hasn't statistically fallen in favour of protoss since July 2016.
Meanwhile, Blizzard's priority is more nerfs to protoss, and specifically nerfs to make the game less fun and more difficult to play. The nerf to shield batteries for the sake of avoiding a niche and rare strategy comes at the cost of being able to defend against early aggression anywhere near as easily. The cavalier throwaway lines "this will reduce the number of Corrosive Biles it takes to destroy them from 7 to 5" but it "weaken[s] offensive usage while mostly maintaining their defensive power" shows how shortsighted and poorly thought out these changes are.
There is just no justification for this current line of changes; they can't be called balance changes because they will make the game less balanced.
I guess you're referring to those aligulac leading/lagging numbers. I always found those numbers odd. Currently aligulac says Zerg is leading with 8% and Protoss is lagging with 14% but how are those numbers calculated? Aligulac also gives precise numbers for every matchup and those are
PvT: 52,40%; PvZ: 45.83%; TvZ: 45.23%
So if anything, wouldn't be Terran the lagging race? The leading / lagging numbers are not mentioned in aligulacs monthly balance report either, we shouldn't therefore take those numbers to seriously.
|
At that point it's clear which race the balance team supports. Some ideas are not bad though.
|
I still think shield batteries should only be allowed to be build at a certain radius arround the Nexus.
This health change won't stop anyone from proxying, but will make them weaker to Proxies, wich is one of the problems Protoss faces atm.
|
"In the Zerg vs. Zerg matchup, we see a lot of Tunneling Claws Roaches used to harass mineral lines. While we enjoy both the harass and comeback potential that this ability affords Zerg players, we’ve received a lot of feedback from Zerg players that it might be too good in this role. Because of the high health regeneration with the Tunneling Claws upgrade, it can take over twice the number of defensive Roaches to dislodge harassing Roaches."
A lot? Once every few dozen games is a lot? Who are the whiny players who refuse to build static defense in the mid-late game and don't want to change their playstyle?
|
On September 26 2018 05:43 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2018 05:24 Yonnua wrote:
Well, that's a ridiculous and disappointing set of suggestions.
Protoss is currently lagging statistically behind by more than 10%, and behind zerg by more than 20%. Protoss has won only one Premier tournament all year, and PvZ specifically hasn't statistically fallen in favour of protoss since July 2016.
Meanwhile, Blizzard's priority is more nerfs to protoss, and specifically nerfs to make the game less fun and more difficult to play. The nerf to shield batteries for the sake of avoiding a niche and rare strategy comes at the cost of being able to defend against early aggression anywhere near as easily. The cavalier throwaway lines "this will reduce the number of Corrosive Biles it takes to destroy them from 7 to 5" but it "weaken[s] offensive usage while mostly maintaining their defensive power" shows how shortsighted and poorly thought out these changes are.
There is just no justification for this current line of changes; they can't be called balance changes because they will make the game less balanced. I disagree, I think the changes sounds reasonable. Obviously P needs some buffer at the moment, especially against Z and all the nerfs to Z seems to hit at that pretty well. Regarding shield batteries, the nerf mostly effects offensive pushes with batteries or if Z attacks with roaches. Biles is basically the only way a defensive protoss should have their shield battery destroyed since the P usually have army in front of them. I don't believe the health and shield nerf will effect the defensive power of the battery as much you make it sound.
agreed, you're correct. with effective SB placement P shouldn't really be worrying about their health. in a few niche situations like defending cyclone or stalker rushes it might add a little bit more kick to the attack, but cheaper robo also means faster immortals which are another huge defensive tool against busts in all 3 matchups
|
Hey, really good small changes Blizzard. I really applaud where the balance team is taking things. Nothing major, everything small, everything makes sense.
|
On September 26 2018 06:02 MrWayne wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2018 05:24 Yonnua wrote:
Well, that's a ridiculous and disappointing set of suggestions.
Protoss is currently lagging statistically behind by more than 10%, and behind zerg by more than 20%. Protoss has won only one Premier tournament all year, and PvZ specifically hasn't statistically fallen in favour of protoss since July 2016.
Meanwhile, Blizzard's priority is more nerfs to protoss, and specifically nerfs to make the game less fun and more difficult to play. The nerf to shield batteries for the sake of avoiding a niche and rare strategy comes at the cost of being able to defend against early aggression anywhere near as easily. The cavalier throwaway lines "this will reduce the number of Corrosive Biles it takes to destroy them from 7 to 5" but it "weaken[s] offensive usage while mostly maintaining their defensive power" shows how shortsighted and poorly thought out these changes are.
There is just no justification for this current line of changes; they can't be called balance changes because they will make the game less balanced. I guess you're referring to those aligulac leading/lagging numbers. I always found those numbers odd. Currently aligulac says Zerg is leading with 8% and Protoss is lagging with 14% but how are those numbers calculated? Aligulac also gives precise numbers for every matchup and those are PvT: 52,40%; PvZ: 45.83%; TvZ: 45.23% So if anything, wouldn't be Terran the lagging race? The leading / lagging numbers are not mentioned in aligulacs monthly balance report either, we shouldn't therefore take those numbers to seriously.
The lagging/leading numbers are based on how the top players are performing relative to one another, and so are more indicative of the highest level of play than the overall balance numbers, which are heavily skewed by the large number of small online cups. (For example, this online cup where terran went 0-8 versus two well known pro players is probably not the best indication of balance, but is nearly 1% of the latest TvP balance stats)
Even on those skewed numbers, they show Protoss significantly behind in the match-up where they're being targeted for nerfs. It's important to understand stats and where they are coming from, but knowing the information behind them actually paints a picture far more damning of the current situation.
The facts are simple: there is no data justification for these nerfs, they're just here to justify some internal narrative of those with the loudest voices, which have always been Terran and Zerg players.
|
On September 26 2018 06:09 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:
"In the Zerg vs. Zerg matchup, we see a lot of Tunneling Claws Roaches used to harass mineral lines. While we enjoy both the harass and comeback potential that this ability affords Zerg players, we’ve received a lot of feedback from Zerg players that it might be too good in this role. Because of the high health regeneration with the Tunneling Claws upgrade, it can take over twice the number of defensive Roaches to dislodge harassing Roaches."
A lot? Once every few dozen games is a lot? Who are the whiny players who refuse to build static defense in the mid-late game and don't want to change their playstyle?
at pro level tunneling claws is insanely effective in the mid-lategame, and there are a lot of scenarios where they cause huge shifts in momentum and map control for very little risk. defending burrow roaches is not a matter of simply building a bunch of static D, it's an incredibly APM intensive and stressful defense.
burrow roaches are in a stupid spot anyway. T and P have detection so consistently that it really is a goofball cheese in other matchups and an annoying, powerful gimmick in zvz
|
|
|
Im hoping with the transfuse change hellbat pushes will get a bit stronger vs zerg
|
On September 26 2018 06:10 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2018 06:02 MrWayne wrote:On September 26 2018 05:24 Yonnua wrote:
Well, that's a ridiculous and disappointing set of suggestions.
Protoss is currently lagging statistically behind by more than 10%, and behind zerg by more than 20%. Protoss has won only one Premier tournament all year, and PvZ specifically hasn't statistically fallen in favour of protoss since July 2016.
Meanwhile, Blizzard's priority is more nerfs to protoss, and specifically nerfs to make the game less fun and more difficult to play. The nerf to shield batteries for the sake of avoiding a niche and rare strategy comes at the cost of being able to defend against early aggression anywhere near as easily. The cavalier throwaway lines "this will reduce the number of Corrosive Biles it takes to destroy them from 7 to 5" but it "weaken[s] offensive usage while mostly maintaining their defensive power" shows how shortsighted and poorly thought out these changes are.
There is just no justification for this current line of changes; they can't be called balance changes because they will make the game less balanced. I guess you're referring to those aligulac leading/lagging numbers. I always found those numbers odd. Currently aligulac says Zerg is leading with 8% and Protoss is lagging with 14% but how are those numbers calculated? Aligulac also gives precise numbers for every matchup and those are PvT: 52,40%; PvZ: 45.83%; TvZ: 45.23% So if anything, wouldn't be Terran the lagging race? The leading / lagging numbers are not mentioned in aligulacs monthly balance report either, we shouldn't therefore take those numbers to seriously. The lagging/leading numbers are based on how the top players are performing relative to one another, and so are more indicative of the highest level of play than the overall balance numbers, which are heavily skewed by the large number of small online cups. ( For example, this online cup where terran went 0-8 versus two well known pro players is probably not the best indication of balance, but is nearly 1% of the latest TvP balance stats) Even on those skewed numbers, they show Protoss significantly behind in the match-up where they're being targeted for nerfs. It's important to understand stats and where they are coming from, but knowing the information behind them actually paints a picture far more damning of the current situation. The facts are simple: there is no data justification for these nerfs, they're just here to justify some internal narrative of those with the loudest voices, which have always been Terran and Zerg players.
Non of these are balance changes, they are obviously made to adress overused/underused strategies and aspects of the game.
- Underused: Muta play (thor nerf), BCs, infestors, nydus, earlygame sentrys
- Overused: Queens for defence, proxy cyclones, proxies with shield batteries, mass air (overused as in they want to see them a bit least)
Besides the biggest whiners are obviously protoss players and their martyr complex, nobody is out to get them, you are just as any other player for Blizzard.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
