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Vision_
870 Posts
Blizzard finally accept to change creep spread, and it s a good thing. In patch 4.0.0 (last year), i was surprised from the small nerf of the fungal growth but i didn t notice (cause i ve stopped playing sc2 during LoTV) you could upload your marines and lfew !! Now this buff was reverted (and i agree with this changes..), i still wonder if the fungal nerf was too small.. I would like fungal growth decrease speed units from 100% to 66% (instead of 75%) cause banelings / fungal is too punishing. | ||
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KR_4EVR
316 Posts
Can blizzard please make a right-click able command card for protoss and terran facilities (and for queens too) so that facilities auto-make the next unit as soon as the production spot is free if there's enough money? | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
On October 05 2018 06:07 KR_4EVR wrote: Quality of life change: Can blizzard please make a right-click able command card for protoss and terran facilities (and for queens too) so that facilities auto-make the next unit as soon as the production spot is free if there's enough money? That's a terrible idea lol. | ||
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MrFreeman
207 Posts
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MrWayne
219 Posts
On October 08 2018 20:56 MrFreeman wrote: Is there any indication regarding when the final shape of these changes will be revealed? probably at Blizzcon but they will continue change the game after this changes hit the live game. | ||
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MrFreeman
207 Posts
On October 09 2018 00:02 MrWayne wrote: probably at Blizzcon but they will continue change the game after this changes hit the live game. Well, I didn't expect this to be the last balance change ever, no worries about that, just wanted to know, when will I learn what exactly will be pushed on the main ladder. Honestly, I think it could stay the way it is now, since these changes are real good. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2655 Posts
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
Granted marines will be better against Carriers, but bio did not have problems with Carriers. The only thing Thor will be better against is Brood Lords. But Thors were already decent against Brood Lords, the problem has always been the Carriers, not the Brood Lords. I have also problem understanding the role of Battlecruicers. They will be better vs ground but their counters (Tempest) will be even better in its role. BCs will also be worse against Carriers compared to pre-patch. I am trying to think of a scenario outside of TvT where getting BCs in the right call. If you wish to win the air battle Vikings will do better. If you wish to win the ground battle Tanks get you more effect. If you wish to harass medivacs are almost always better. I think it would have been better if Blizzard tried to solve larger problems instead of just looking at individual units. For instance: How to make cheese and proxies weaker and promote macro games since a large majority of the player base prefer macro? How to make TvP less Protoss favored in the late game? How to make it easier for Protoss to hold Zerg mid game timings? | ||
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Near_sc2
11 Posts
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hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
Nerfing hydras more in current ZvP meta means Zerg looses every PvZ. Mutas countered hard by phoenixes and Archons, Roach Ravager, hard countered by Immortals. Well, what's not hard countered by Immortals anyway? Lings wrecked by adept/zealot/Archon not to mention about massive AOE like Psistorm, and let's not forget about Disruptors rebuffed, and Collosus buffed. If I were u, i would stop whining, and wait for the final changes and let it roll for sometime, because in my opinion creep nerf, queen nerf and hydra nerf means Zerg underpowered in this matchup in the future. | ||
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Near_sc2
11 Posts
On October 09 2018 14:16 hiroshOne wrote: Comparing Hydra to Stalker...now that's golden and completely ignoring the fact that both units are totally different and have different role in the game. Not mentioning about vs armoured bonus and blink for Stalkers... Nerfing hydras more in current ZvP meta means Zerg looses every PvZ. Mutas countered hard by phoenixes and Archons, Roach Ravager, hard countered by Immortals. Well, what's not hard countered by Immortals anyway? Lings wrecked by adept/zealot/Archon not to mention about massive AOE like Psistorm, and let's not forget about Disruptors rebuffed, and Collosus buffed. If I were u, i would stop whining, and wait for the final changes and let it roll for sometime, because in my opinion creep nerf, queen nerf and hydra nerf means Zerg underpowered in this matchup in the future. Can't tell if this is a serious post lol. Stalker bonus vs armored is actually a disadvantage because it makes the unit much weaker vs light units where has hydra does full damage to everything. So your saying a 6 range 2 supply unit are totally different and can't be compared. You do realize that the Hydralisk was buffed from WoL to unimaginable levels right? All of my changes are only walking back a little bit from LoTV but are still buffed units from WoL. WoL hydralisk had 2.25 movespeed offcreep. WoL hydralisk had 80 health. WoL hydralisk had 14.5 dps. Zerg still made Hydra in PvZ and it still worked. No other unit has been buffed to such levels from WoL to LoTV. Marines got nothing, marauder later got no more 2x, zealots got 8 damage on charge and slightly slower charge speed. but hydralisk got massive dps buff, +10 hp, and massive movespeed buff. In WoL Hydralisk were better than stalker but it wasn't to the point where stalkers were useless. In LoTV we don't even see stalkers at all because they are even weaker due to slow attack speed and hydra are so ungodly op they can smash 2x their cost in stalker. This match up has been zerg favored for 2 years straight with protoss sometimes coming close to 50/50 but never reaching it. The current patch barely solves any of this at all. .57 from .54 attack speed is still 21+ dps. hydra still move like oracles, queens still have 8 range and are still being spammed to counter everything. If a match up has been 1 sided for 2 years heck even 1 year its time to balance the game and do something about it. | ||
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hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
On October 09 2018 14:39 Near_sc2 wrote: Can't tell if this is a serious post lol. Stalker bonus vs armored is actually a disadvantage because it makes the unit much weaker vs light units where has hydra does full damage to everything. So your saying a 6 range 2 supply unit are totally different and can't be compared. You do realize that the Hydralisk was buffed from WoL to unimaginable levels right? All of my changes are only walking back a little bit from LoTV but are still buffed units from WoL. WoL hydralisk had 2.25 movespeed offcreep. WoL hydralisk had 80 health. WoL hydralisk had 14.5 dps. Zerg still made Hydra in PvZ and it still worked. No other unit has been buffed to such levels from WoL to LoTV. Marines got nothing, marauder later got no more 2x, zealots got 8 damage on charge and slightly slower charge speed. but hydralisk got massive dps buff, +10 hp, and massive movespeed buff. In WoL Hydralisk were better than stalker but it wasn't to the point where stalkers were useless. In LoTV we don't even see stalkers at all because they are even weaker due to slow attack speed and hydra are so ungodly op they can smash 2x their cost in stalker. This match up has been zerg favored for 2 years straight with protoss sometimes coming close to 50/50 but never reaching it. The current patch barely solves any of this at all. .57 from .54 attack speed is still 21+ dps. hydra still move like oracles, queens still have 8 range and are still being spammed to counter everything. If a match up has been 1 sided for 2 years heck even 1 year its time to balance the game and do something about it. First- Hydra is higher tier unit than Stalker. That's to begin with. Second. Comparing, WOL to LOTV it's the most stupid thing u could do. Those are totally different games. Not mentioning meta and unit roles. Hydra was buffed due this tine, because everything else Zerg had in midgame, was nerfed. Just to mention Infestors for example. Hydralisks are what they suppose to be- core Zerg unit. Just as it was in Broodwar. U just can't compare units, a d they bare statistics, completely ignoring meta, and synergies with other units and so on and on. U're pulling them out of their context. Same way u can go whine about Marines too. Because they wreck everything on stim, and cost only 50 minerals, no gas. It's much more rounded unit that hydra will ever be. And if u got problems with hydras, just go watch some pro protosses how they wreck Hydra timings with their High Templars timings. Not to mention about newest balance changes and how crazy imba new/old Disruptor will be vs those. | ||
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Near_sc2
11 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
I think making swarmhost light and making locust not fly would probably address the entire unit so that it's never seen again, but there needs to be some mention of it imo. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 09 2018 14:16 hiroshOne wrote: Comparing Hydra to Stalker...now that's golden and completely ignoring the fact that both units are totally different and have different role in the game. Not mentioning about vs armoured bonus and blink for Stalkers... Nerfing hydras more in current ZvP meta means Zerg looses every PvZ. Mutas countered hard by phoenixes and Archons, Roach Ravager, hard countered by Immortals. Well, what's not hard countered by Immortals anyway? Lings wrecked by adept/zealot/Archon not to mention about massive AOE like Psistorm, and let's not forget about Disruptors rebuffed, and Collosus buffed. If I were u, i would stop whining, and wait for the final changes and let it roll for sometime, because in my opinion creep nerf, queen nerf and hydra nerf means Zerg underpowered in this matchup in the future. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, if Blizzard finally solves the problem named the design of Protoss, then, JUST MAYBE, we can remove all the hardcounters P players so love. And MAYBE, just MAYBE, if they rebalance the mutalisks, so they don't have to balance everything around mutalisks, then, JUST MAYBE, we can balance even further! (check balance patches how many changes there was around mutalisks! It's insane). And maybe, JUST MAYBE, they can address the problem named the design of Zerg to balance queens which are hilarious. Both races are so badly designed it's not even fun(although Protoss is ahead in this by miles). | ||
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Drfilip
Sweden590 Posts
On October 09 2018 15:39 Near_sc2 wrote: Which Zerg unit was nerfed? zergling? roach? Infestors I agree were overnerfed and need buffs. I don't mind Hydralisk being a core zerg unit. As you've stated high templar timing is the counter to hydra timing. I also agree that hydralisk should be cost effective vs stalkers. The problem is as you've alluded to in your post the only realistic method to dealing with hydra is psistorm. this makes engagements where zerg is attacking one dimensional where the protoss player needs to have enough storms banked to hold off the attack or game over. Unfortunately storm has its limits and one of the major limits is that high templar are slow and hydralisk have the same movespeed as stalker offcreep, and 5.1 movespeed oncreep. this makes psi storm very easy to move out of. Imagine protoss had a unit called adeptlisk that was cost effective vs everything zerg has except fungal growth and killed everything so quickly that even though i sat all of my adeptlisks under a fungal, all of my 10 hp adeplisks still cleared your whole army. If the adeptlisk were actually able to do that I don't think the community would let the unit even stay in the game that broken unit would be removed asap, but here we are. Colossus are getting buffed, both in kiting and in production (cheaper robo). The disruptor is getting changed so that single zerglings won't trigger the explosion. Many consider this a buff vs zerg. The poster did mention colossus and disruptor as ways to deal with hydralisk. massive AOE like Psistorm, and let's not forget about Disruptors rebuffed, and Collosus buffed. Also, as Hirosh said, don't take things out of context. The zerg midgame got nerfed by the changed immortal shield and the introduction of oracles, adepts and disruptors in PvZ. In TvZ, you have buffed siege tanks, liberators, widow mines and cyclones to consider. The context matters a lot. | ||
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
On October 09 2018 05:49 MockHamill wrote: Most of the changes are reasonable but removing Thor and Cyclone armor so that they will perform worse against carrier after the patch does not make sense. It is like the design goal points in one direction but the actual effect points in the other direction. Granted marines will be better against Carriers, but bio did not have problems with Carriers. The only thing Thor will be better against is Brood Lords. But Thors were already decent against Brood Lords, the problem has always been the Carriers, not the Brood Lords. I have also problem understanding the role of Battlecruicers. They will be better vs ground but their counters (Tempest) will be even better in its role. BCs will also be worse against Carriers compared to pre-patch. I am trying to think of a scenario outside of TvT where getting BCs in the right call. If you wish to win the air battle Vikings will do better. If you wish to win the ground battle Tanks get you more effect. If you wish to harass medivacs are almost always better. I think it would have been better if Blizzard tried to solve larger problems instead of just looking at individual units. For instance: How to make cheese and proxies weaker and promote macro games since a large majority of the player base prefer macro? How to make TvP less Protoss favored in the late game? How to make it easier for Protoss to hold Zerg mid game timings? I don't think you need to worry about carriers with the current patchnotes. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
On October 09 2018 19:59 DBooN wrote: I don't think you need to worry about carriers with the current patchnotes. Not against bio but against mech Carriers will actually be stronger. Both Thor and Cyclones will perform worse against Carriers. Vikings will never work as a counter due to leach range plus storm. Cyclones used to be useful against a low number of Carriers since you could overwhelm the Carriers just as they transition to air. Now Carriers will do the same DPS vs Cyclones but have more hitpoints and produce faster while Cyclones will be even more useless against the Zealot meatshield. Blizzard is so near making mech semi-viable in TvP but they always do some unnecessary change that prevents it. Just let Cyclones or Thor keep their armor. If they want to make Mutas better vs Thors just change the javelin missiles so that is does more base damage, remove the bonus vs light and give it bonus vs mechanical. Removing the Thor armor is just a bad idea. The new Thor will be better vs Brood Lords but worse against everything else. Which is completely unnecessary since Thors is just a niche unit that is not overused. Either make sure that Thors actually perform better as a "giant killer" (ie counters Carriers) or keep the current stats. I suspect that if the current changes goes through you will only see Thors against mass muta or Brood Lords, and never in any other situation. | ||
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Hydralich
16 Posts
Zerg is the weakest race right now (and Terran is the strongest) because you have to tech switch everytime thanks to lack of overall unit. You lose 1 drone to build something. Losing drones is not something tolerable (while it is tolerable for terran because of mules and tolorable for protoss beause of chrono) because if you have to make drones you can't make more army Btw complaining Protoss Do you ever make 4 6 immortals and 2 colossus or 2 4 templar before attacking the zerg ? They are very easy to make since you can start with 2 bases right now. Immortals kill even lurkers easily. If you cant kill hydras without their roach sheilds then it is your problem. | ||
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By.Smash
Canada7 Posts
On October 09 2018 23:01 Hydralich wrote: What is the problem with hydra ? Why it should not be an overall unit ? It was a tech 1 unit in broodwar and 25 gas & mineral cheaper. I think it should be the same in sc2 so cost efficiently overpowered Terrans may be forced to do something other than marines or flynig siege tanks named liberator Zerg is the weakest race right now (and Terran is the strongest) because you have to tech switch everytime thanks to lack of overall unit. You lose 1 drone to build something. Losing drones is not something tolerable (while it is tolerable for terran because of mules and tolorable for protoss beause of chrono) because if you have to make drones you can't make more army Btw complaining Protoss Do you ever make 4 6 immortals and 2 colossus or 2 4 templar before attacking the zerg ? They are very easy to make since you can start with 2 bases right now. Immortals kill even lurkers easily. If you cant kill hydras without their roach sheilds then it is your problem. Idk what bronze bubble you're living in where zerg is considered the weakest - Z has been the strongest for some time now http://aligulac.com/periods/latest/ hydras are op vs protoss - idk how many pro/gm games I've watched where a protoss prepares for the hydras and still gets rolled by Z just rallying to their third and amoving. It's definetely not what I'd consider fun to watch/play let alone balanced. | ||
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