EPTBalance Mod Update Sep 25, 2018 - Page 7
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
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Athenau
569 Posts
other than that, wcs standings in both regions might suggest there's a problem as well. 3 zergs in Circuit top 8 and 9 in Circuit top 20 is a "problem"? | ||
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QuinnTheEskimo
Germany55 Posts
Current GM shares: - Americas * Top 10: 50% Zerg 40% Protoss * Top 100: 38% Zerg 33 % Protoss * Top 200: 36 % Zerg 28% Protoss - Europe * Top 10: 20% Zerg 50% Protoss * Top 100: 35% Zerg 29 % Protoss * Top 200: 35 % Zerg 27% Protoss - Korea * Top 10: 50% Zerg 20% Protoss * Top 100: 38% Zerg 27 % Protoss * Top 200: 35 % Zerg 30% Protoss And of course Z has had the most people entering the play offs in the all the WCS events this season. So yeah, easy to see that Z needs buffs vs. P. Over the months somebody on this forum has repeatedly talked about some important balance team member publicly stated in an interview that his favorite race is Z. On a different note: the new maps seem to massively favor T, because last season it was like 50% Zerg across the board and P always between 33%. But the season is still young ... | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16694 Posts
On September 28 2018 03:18 QuinnTheEskimo wrote: LOL! I'm so glad I quit the game. Current GM shares: - Americas * Top 10: 50% Zerg 40% Protoss * Top 100: 38% Zerg 33 % Protoss * Top 200: 36 % Zerg 28% Protoss - Europe * Top 10: 20% Zerg 50% Protoss * Top 100: 35% Zerg 29 % Protoss * Top 200: 35 % Zerg 27% Protoss - Korea * Top 10: 50% Zerg 20% Protoss * Top 100: 38% Zerg 27 % Protoss * Top 200: 35 % Zerg 30% Protoss And of course Z has had the most people entering the play offs in the all the WCS events this season. So yeah, easy to see that Z needs buffs vs. P. Over the months somebody on this forum has repeatedly talked about some important balance team member publicly stated in an interview that his favorite race is Z. On a different note: the new maps seem to massively favor T, because last season it was like 50% Zerg across the board and P always between 33%. But the season is still young ... GM isn't top level play. i place highest on competitive ladders playing as Zerg in both Brood War and SC2. I've accepted the fact that a diverse race game can only be perfectly balanced at one level of play. Most game makers choose the top level of play. i'd rather have a diverse race game than a perfectly balanced game where i place the same on the ladder with all races. this is true not just for SC2 and Brood War but for every diverse race RTS game i've played for the past 18 years. CoH1, RA2, and RA3, and C&C3 all have this same issue. meh. Diverse race RTS games are never balanced. To quote Chris Jericho : "Never ... Ever" | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On September 27 2018 23:31 -Kyo- wrote: At first I thought the changes to protoss were slightly interesting with making something like gateway armies stronger again if carriers were nerfed, but i cant understand some of the stuff theyre doing now. they're literally just trying to force a change in the meta....? O.o This is what puzzles me the most about all these changes. There are clear directions they are looking at for terran and zerg (trying to bring back mutas in TvZ, mines in various terran matchups, making infestors easier to use and more viable, directing zerg slightly away from hydra-heavy compositions) but none of the Protoss changes point to any particular goal other than getting rid of mass carriers as a viable strategy, making tempests slightly less terrible (I have a strong feeling they will walk back a lot of these tempest changes), making recall work how it should have in the first place, and reverting distruptors. The cheaper robo is nice (though it could be problematic) but other than that every other change they've made to protoss either is a weirdly specific nerf or is some fiddly little change that won't have that big of an impact. The only change I've seen so far that I think is actually clever is the guardian shield change. It's subtle but will be useful and will encourage more sentry use. I still think that changing hallucination to 75 energy is a dumb half-measure and that it needs to be 50. Then it would actually be useful for scouting since a hallucination can be sent as soon as the sentry is made (if changes have to be made to the hallucinations themselves to balance it then so be it). Better scouting would solve so many of the issues protoss has right now and would allow actual meaningful changes to be made to protoss. A good chunk of the stuff we see being abused by protoss players also happens to be stuff vital to protoss not dying to various all-ins and proxies that they can't reliably scout right now. Shield batteries are probably too good right now but without them protoss dies to a whole range of things. | ||
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omop
42 Posts
On September 28 2018 04:46 Ben... wrote: I still think that changing hallucination to 75 energy is a dumb half-measure and that it needs to be 50. Then it would actually be useful for scouting since a hallucination can be sent as soon as the sentry is made (if changes have to be made to the hallucinations themselves to balance it then so be it). Better scouting would solve so many of the issues protoss has right now and would allow actual meaningful changes to be made to protoss. A good chunk of the stuff we see being abused by protoss players also happens to be stuff vital to protoss not dying to various all-ins and proxies that they can't reliably scout right now. Shield batteries are probably too good right now but without them protoss dies to a whole range of things. i think with 50 energy hallucinations would give protoss too much scouting ability. With few sentries you can scout every minute. And there isn't much counter play to hallucination scouting. Maybe if hallucination duration or hp would be reduced, it would be good change. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On September 28 2018 05:09 omop wrote: i think with 50 energy hallucinations would give protoss too much scouting ability. With few sentries you can scout every minute. And there isn't much counter play to hallucination scouting. Maybe if hallucination duration or hp would be reduced, it would be good change. That's what I mean by adjust the hallucinations to compensate. If the hallucinations had shorter durations or something like that they would still be quite useful. Even just long enough to scout the main of an opponent, it would be a massive improvement over what protoss has now, which is basically nothing until either the robo/stargate finishes or a sentry is built and is left to generate 100 energy, all of which are too late to be prepared for a lot of situations, especially proxies. Also, terran scans are 50 energy so hallucinations become a bit of an equivalent. Spamming hallucination scouts wouldn't be good because each hallucination would sacrifice a forcefield, so it's a trade-off in the same way scans are. | ||
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Siegetank_Dieter1
117 Posts
legacy of the void suffers from deep fundamental issues and dev team is dancing around nonsense changes all the time, then they let the game die for a whole new year and then they release a new set of strange out of touch changes. you wanna make BC a more attractive unit by making it even easier to counter ? you wanna nerf nydus play by making nydus better ? you wanna make thors a better anti air option vs broodlords, meanwhile you nerf thors armor ? you wanna make mech viable, but you let zerg go 3hatch every game on pure queens and then mass 20 swarmhosts that have absolut zero counterplay ... the list goes on. It's insane to me. Serisouly. Edit: if you're a terran player you really wonder why you even keep playing this game, i personally literally play SC2 out of nostalgia. I wish i could enjoy this game again, but you just keep pushing dumb changes for whatever reason. | ||
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Shaddark
2 Posts
I like to see the alien artifact monitoring a fight from far away. Also, ik they will give 0 attention to this but it's ridiculous that a flying bug can pull a freaking Mothership, removing the ability of Vipers to pull colossal units would add realy well in terms of balance, or even sieged tanks stuck on the ground, our fellow terrans would apreciate it, though I think that would be ask for too much. :p | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On September 28 2018 03:18 QuinnTheEskimo wrote: LOL! I'm so glad I quit the game. Current GM shares: - Americas * Top 10: 50% Zerg 40% Protoss * Top 100: 38% Zerg 33 % Protoss * Top 200: 36 % Zerg 28% Protoss - Europe * Top 10: 20% Zerg 50% Protoss * Top 100: 35% Zerg 29 % Protoss * Top 200: 35 % Zerg 27% Protoss - Korea * Top 10: 50% Zerg 20% Protoss * Top 100: 38% Zerg 27 % Protoss * Top 200: 35 % Zerg 30% Protoss And of course Z has had the most people entering the play offs in the all the WCS events this season. So yeah, easy to see that Z needs buffs vs. P. Over the months somebody on this forum has repeatedly talked about some important balance team member publicly stated in an interview that his favorite race is Z. On a different note: the new maps seem to massively favor T, because last season it was like 50% Zerg across the board and P always between 33%. But the season is still young ... The community lost a real gem in you, you ll be sorely missed | ||
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_fool
Netherlands677 Posts
On September 28 2018 09:54 Siegetank_Dieter1 wrote: i've never seen a balance team in a RTS being just so out of touch with their own game. legacy of the void suffers from deep fundamental issues and dev team is dancing around nonsense changes all the time, then they let the game die for a whole new year and then they release a new set of strange out of touch changes. you wanna make BC a more attractive unit by making it even easier to counter ? you wanna nerf nydus play by making nydus better ? you wanna make thors a better anti air option vs broodlords, meanwhile you nerf thors armor ? you wanna make mech viable, but you let zerg go 3hatch every game on pure queens and then mass 20 swarmhosts that have absolut zero counterplay ... the list goes on. It's insane to me. Serisouly. Edit: if you're a terran player you really wonder why you even keep playing this game, i personally literally play SC2 out of nostalgia. I wish i could enjoy this game again, but you just keep pushing dumb changes for whatever reason. Tbh I only see mass swarmhost vs mech on your stream. But that's probably the stream snipers trying to annoy you. Just hang in there bro, eventually they will grow tired of it. And then you can Mech it happen! | ||
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Haukinger
Germany131 Posts
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MiCroLiFe
Norway264 Posts
On September 28 2018 09:54 Siegetank_Dieter1 wrote: i've never seen a balance team in a RTS being just so out of touch with their own game. legacy of the void suffers from deep fundamental issues and dev team is dancing around nonsense changes all the time, then they let the game die for a whole new year and then they release a new set of strange out of touch changes. you wanna make BC a more attractive unit by making it even easier to counter ? you wanna nerf nydus play by making nydus better ? you wanna make thors a better anti air option vs broodlords, meanwhile you nerf thors armor ? you wanna make mech viable, but you let zerg go 3hatch every game on pure queens and then mass 20 swarmhosts that have absolut zero counterplay ... the list goes on. It's insane to me. Serisouly. Edit: if you're a terran player you really wonder why you even keep playing this game, i personally literally play SC2 out of nostalgia. I wish i could enjoy this game again, but you just keep pushing dumb changes for whatever reason. +1 User was warned for this post. | ||
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SCHWARZENEGGER
206 Posts
On September 28 2018 12:41 Shaddark wrote: I don't like the pick up range nerf bcs is not only a buff to zerg but it'll shorten the ability of protoss to micro Immortals/Archons in fights, this is even worse with the unecessary buff to Fungal Growth, imo that's not fair that blizz removed the AOE damage of Ravens and gave so much power to Infestors. I like to see the alien artifact monitoring a fight from far away. Also, ik they will give 0 attention to this but it's ridiculous that a flying bug can pull a freaking Mothership, removing the ability of Vipers to pull colossal units would add realy well in terms of balance, or even sieged tanks stuck on the ground, our fellow terrans would apreciate it, though I think that would be ask for too much. :p they really should start fixing nonsense like abduct on giants, ravagers without evo chamber, invisible burrowed banes. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On September 28 2018 21:09 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote: they really should start fixing nonsense like abduct on giants, ravagers without evo chamber, invisible burrowed banes. Whining on burrow banes... | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1075 Posts
On September 28 2018 09:54 Siegetank_Dieter1 wrote: i've never seen a balance team in a RTS being just so out of touch with their own game. legacy of the void suffers from deep fundamental issues and dev team is dancing around nonsense changes all the time, then they let the game die for a whole new year and then they release a new set of strange out of touch changes. you wanna make mech viable, but you let zerg go 3hatch every game on pure queens and then mass 20 swarmhosts that have absolut zero counterplay I disagree with your description of early-game mech vZ. mech has ways to force lots of units out of zerg before he even starts thinking about swarm-hosts. the third hatch is inconsequential... forget about the third hatch. what matters is how fast zerg can drone that third hatch and take a fourth base. mech can easily delay / snipe the fourth hatch, several times, over and over, until zerg makes enough units to stop you. pure queen defense has weaknesses that you can exploit. mech has absolutely no problems at this phase of the game. the problem with mech vs swarm-hosts is that the meching terran has no way to force the swarmhosts to play defensively. if you get even slightly behind vs swarm-hosts, you are dead. why? because mech has no fast unit that can threaten a hatchery and which also has the ability to retreat. tornado blaster cyclones can't do this because they're unmicroable, too slow, can't shoot while they move, can't retreat, hard-countered by lings, and don't trade well vs hydra / roach / ravager. bring back lock-on cyclones with 7 activation range and their old movement speed (same speed as hellion) and suddenly the swarm-host vs mech problem is magically fixed. | ||
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SCHWARZENEGGER
206 Posts
whining on whining from you by your logic then you must be a moron if this is ok to be in the game User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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zyce
United States649 Posts
I haven't been watching much SC2 lately though, is the Queen the only reasonable defense against an Archon drop? | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On September 29 2018 12:03 zyce wrote: I'm baffled. Why is the Queen meant to balance defenses against a Tier 2/3 drop? I think Zerg should have to make some gas investment if their opponent is making a Robotics Bay and Templar Archives/Dark Shrine if they want to counter it, rather than using their macro unit. I haven't been watching much SC2 lately though, is the Queen the only reasonable defense against an Archon drop? It's the only unit that shoot up zerg has at this timing. Archons drops are already really strong as it does free dmg at a cost of a few shield that will regenerate. The only way to counter the push is to kill the WP (or to low his HP enough the P player stop harassing not to lose his archons). And vs archons drops, the defense is usually roach + queens, queens alone die vs archons, lings too, roach alone don't have the dps to kill the archons. Queens are mandatory, and even with roach + queens, this BO still do dmg and it's still one of the most popular opener of PvZ. | ||
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allmotor1
152 Posts
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