Maru continued his quest tor a third consecutive Code S championship largely unopposed, taking out Zest 4-1 in the semifinals. The match was an opportunity for Zest to avenge his 0-4 loss to Maru in the grand finals of the previous season of Code S, but he was only able to win a single map in another one-sided loss.
After taking down the best Protoss and Zerg players in Korea on his way to two Code S titles, Maru must now defeat an elite Terran player in TY to win an unprecedented third championship. Code S season 3 will conclude with Maru vs TY in the grand finals on Saturday, Sep 15 8:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)
I think TY might give him a real fight. But it's hard to really tell. If Maru looks as dominant vs TY as he did vs GuMiho, it seems like he will have decisively defeated all the strongest competition Korea could muster in the GSL. Hard to think of someone else he hasn't faced off against recently who seems like a genuine potential threat to playoffs Maru.
Still waiting for a "community feedback" update regarding this. Im really worried tbh bc as much as my Terran heart wants maru to win blizzcon - i really reallllly do not want every tvp there to be a proxy fest. Super difficult to fix this problem. Main worry is they will nerf something early game for terran without fixing the lategame nightmare. Zest seemed to kind of figure it out on catalyst..smaller map makes for less rng i guess..honestly no idea what they should do but watching these games is a huge let down..even the casters who literally get paid to hype cant hide their disappointment..tosis let "but i wanted a good series" slip out again lol..im w u brother
The TvP proxyfest only started very recently. And the complaints about it only started like this week. The balance team wouldn't make drastic changes that quickly.
Especially if they're working on major changes for after blizzcon
sorry, this TvP proxy bullshit is just well bullshit. IMO if you don't respect it and answer perfectly you're sooo behind. And T can fake it, make scv behind it and it'll still look like an all-in because it's so hard to scout if the T is seriously committing or not. I can't respect something that is made on pure luck - if the P scouts it right away T is done, but if not and scouts late T can mindfuck the P and take huge lead. This game should be more serious than simple proxying BS every damn game.
On September 09 2018 04:57 NotSoHappy wrote: sorry, this TvP proxy bullshit is just well bullshit. IMO if you don't respect it and answer perfectly you're sooo behind. And T can fake it, make scv behind it and it'll still look like an all-in because it's so hard to scout if the T is seriously committing or not. I can't respect something that is made on pure luck - if the P scouts it right away T is done, but if not and scouts late T can mindfuck the P and take huge lead. This game should be more serious than simple proxying BS every damn game.
That's the thing, it's not pure luck. For Maru and TY, at any rate, from all tournaments I've watched those 2 are actually very far ahead of other Terrans when it comes to this. As long as the first probe doesn't cause the proxy to be cancelled (which rarely happens), any Protoss is in trouble already vs them. They have so many follow-ups and options. Very powerful mind games. Even Neeb, after practicing tons of games with TY himself for the GSL Ro16, didn't manage to make the right call most of the time.
"As long as the first probe doesn't cause the proxy to be cancelled (which rarely happens)"
You said it yourself. It is luck. You can proxy the rax/facs in many places on the map, so it is highly difficult for the protos to know what's comming and if the T is committing or not. Not to mention the followups. Add to this, they may still play standard, so there is many, many mindgames coming from just a simple proxy.
As a spectator it is just getting boring and I'm thinking this is OP in someway that is hard to tell and it won't be fixed by a simple nerf which I wouldn't like to see. Maybe some answer from map-makers would make it easier for the P. Time will tell.
Terran proxying is fun to watch, I love it. Finally some creativity in SC2. Zest's decision to build his buildings on the low ground is also an interesting switch up - don't patch this please, just let the players evolve the meta.
On September 09 2018 05:41 NotSoHappy wrote: "As long as the first probe doesn't cause the proxy to be cancelled (which rarely happens)"
You said it yourself. It is luck. You can proxy the rax/facs in many places on the map, so it is highly difficult for the protos to know what's comming and if the T is committing or not. Not to mention the followups. Add to this, they may still play standard, so there is many, many mindgames coming from just a simple proxy.
As a spectator it is just getting boring and I'm thinking this is OP in someway that is hard to tell and it won't be fixed by a simple nerf which I wouldn't like to see. Maybe some answer from map-makers would make it easier for the P. Time will tell.
In the first place, Maru is proxying to dictate the game. and he knows that pretty much noone can keep up with him, in terms of heavymircoing and macroing behind that. and the follow up is subsequent to the follow up. and sooner or later the opponent falls apart and the damage spile up. this has nothing to do with luck. protoss isnt behind rather hasnt enough information. the question is just if you react accordingly and if you can keep up...
On September 09 2018 05:41 NotSoHappy wrote: "As long as the first probe doesn't cause the proxy to be cancelled (which rarely happens)"
You said it yourself. It is luck. You can proxy the rax/facs in many places on the map, so it is highly difficult for the protos to know what's comming and if the T is committing or not. Not to mention the followups. Add to this, they may still play standard, so there is many, many mindgames coming from just a simple proxy.
As a spectator it is just getting boring and I'm thinking this is OP in someway that is hard to tell and it won't be fixed by a simple nerf which I wouldn't like to see. Maybe some answer from map-makers would make it easier for the P. Time will tell.
In the first place, Maru is proxying to dictate the game. and he knows that pretty much noone can keep up with him, in terms of heavymircoing and macroing behind that. and the follow up is subsequent to the follow up. and sooner or later the opponent falls apart and the damage spile up. this has nothing to do with luck. protoss isnt behind rather hasnt enough information. the question is just if you react accordingly and if you can keep up...
Of course I agree - he is dictating the game from just sending his scv and building a rax on a random spot on the map. That is exactly my point why it is bad. Proxies from other races has are just weaker/T proxies are less viable vs Z.
I understand what are you getting at - Maru is way superior in micro to other pros and is abusing this style to win games, but nonetheless I feel like this is OP (vs P) and should be looked at, considering how the metagame is shifting.
All I am saying is P has to put way more work to answer this than T and early on it feels like playing a guesing game, because scouting options are very limited. It went so far as P sending 2 probes to scout for it.
I can't understand all this post on the proxy stuff. Firstly, Maru beat Zest pretty easily in the last finals without all in proxys, so it is not like he "stole" a final opportunity from Zest. Maru does this anyway against anybody in any situation. Also Zest played scared vs Maru this time, and Neeb actually was 2-1 up vs TY with a very high chance of going up 3-1. He failed to read the situation correctly on 16bit, that changed the whole series. Could have been easily Neeb in the finals. Secondly, why should Terrans not proxy much in a BO5/BO7 if this gives them the best chance to win? I get it it is difficult to handle as a protoss, also it is diffucult to handle mass carriers or mass storms with 1 sec cooldown... but it does not mean that blizzard should do something against it immidiately. Give the players time to figure it out.
I don't follow the scene closely anymore, what is the community opinion on Maru? Goat or has the average level dropped? How does he compare to INno last year?
On September 09 2018 20:07 Edpayasugo wrote: I don't follow the scene closely anymore, what is the community opinion on Maru? Goat or has the average level dropped? How does he compare to INno last year?
Both.
He's certainly more dominant than INno was last year. INno had plenty of ro16/ro8 exits and wasn't close to winning all three GSLs. Even the GSL he won was close given he won almost all the matches 4-3/3-2/2-1, whereas Maru is getting 3-0s/4-0s.
On September 09 2018 20:07 Edpayasugo wrote: I don't follow the scene closely anymore, what is the community opinion on Maru? Goat or has the average level dropped? How does he compare to INno last year?
I don't think Maru is quite the GOAT yet, even if he wins this season. It's close though, to the point that if he wins Blizzcon as well we can start calling him that (the lone arena Bogus has never done well in).
I do feel the level has dropped a little from 2017 with less to play for once again for the Koreans. Still, I think Maru's 2018 will be better if he wins all the GSLs. Despite the diminished level of play, it's still pretty cutthroat from the ro8 onward and Maru has been in top-tier form all year. He's only dropped the ball a little in the Super Tournaments. Not to mention he won WESG and made it deep at IEM Katowice.
On September 09 2018 05:41 NotSoHappy wrote: "As long as the first probe doesn't cause the proxy to be cancelled (which rarely happens)"
You said it yourself. It is luck. You can proxy the rax/facs in many places on the map, so it is highly difficult for the protos to know what's comming and if the T is committing or not. Not to mention the followups. Add to this, they may still play standard, so there is many, many mindgames coming from just a simple proxy.
As a spectator it is just getting boring and I'm thinking this is OP in someway that is hard to tell and it won't be fixed by a simple nerf which I wouldn't like to see. Maybe some answer from map-makers would make it easier for the P. Time will tell.
In the first place, Maru is proxying to dictate the game. and he knows that pretty much noone can keep up with him, in terms of heavymircoing and macroing behind that. and the follow up is subsequent to the follow up. and sooner or later the opponent falls apart and the damage spile up. this has nothing to do with luck. protoss isnt behind rather hasnt enough information. the question is just if you react accordingly and if you can keep up...
Of course I agree - he is dictating the game from just sending his scv and building a rax on a random spot on the map. That is exactly my point why it is bad. Proxies from other races has are just weaker/T proxies are less viable vs Z.
I understand what are you getting at - Maru is way superior in micro to other pros and is abusing this style to win games, but nonetheless I feel like this is OP (vs P) and should be looked at, considering how the metagame is shifting.
All I am saying is P has to put way more work to answer this than T and early on it feels like playing a guesing game, because scouting options are very limited. It went so far as P sending 2 probes to scout for it.
On September 09 2018 04:57 NotSoHappy wrote: sorry, this TvP proxy bullshit is just well bullshit. IMO if you don't respect it and answer perfectly you're sooo behind. And T can fake it, make scv behind it and it'll still look like an all-in because it's so hard to scout if the T is seriously committing or not. I can't respect something that is made on pure luck - if the P scouts it right away T is done, but if not and scouts late T can mindfuck the P and take huge lead. This game should be more serious than simple proxying BS every damn game.
I mean for the longest time Protoss played this way alllooot, proxy oracle, proxy dt shrine, proxy hidden extra gates, proxy void ray, proxy 2 robo, proxy tempest, proxy hidden blink, proxy shield. Battery. These builds exist and still work to some degree. I think it's just that right now why would you risk loosing attempting an Allin as toss in tvp when your late game is so good that if you reach it most of the time Terran can't do anything to beat you at that point. Yeah proxies are hard to scout and read for the longest time I whined about this but I've just come to accept that's how sc2 is. I think if late game tvp was more even you might see less Terran players do cheese/allins evrey single game vs toss. With the game as it is thouge I don't see Terran players opting for macro games in tvp anytime soon.
was sad for gumiho but gumiho shouldn't be too sad, maru is a GOD!!!!
I always thought TvT was the most enjoyable mirror matchup to watch - often with games that are like a slow positional chess match that erupt into wild swings in supply.
taeja vs innovation on newkirk 2013 was amazing
hoping maru wins again. sc2 needs a dominant player like that hasn't really had one recently. only bad news is poor soo will not win a final until he figures out how to get past maru
EPT
![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/GSL/2018/gsls3banner738px.jpg)
Maru continued his quest tor a third consecutive Code S championship largely unopposed, taking out ![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/GSL/2018/gsls3bracket1_5.png)
