EPTOne Eternal Moment - Serral at GSL vs. The World - Page 3
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
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FrkFrJss
Canada1207 Posts
On August 20 2018 00:01 drazen_os wrote: Actually, that is exactly what you are doing. Trying to minimize Scarlett's achievement. Everything that came before BUT in that last paragraph is invalidated by what comes after it. I get that Serral is your god and you worship him, but to not even mention Scarlett because YOU think her achievement is not in the same league is just wow. So....you think that Scarlett's win was equivalent to Serral's? The posters on this board who have seen my posts know that I am an ardent foreign supporter. My favourites are actually Neeb and Scarlett. But I try my best to keep my biases in check and to look at who the player played and what kind of form they were in. The fact is simply that Scarlett played fewer Koreans and fewer top players than Serral. It's like saying that Neeb's ro8 run was as impressive as Scarlett's ro8 run. It's not saying that either player wasn't impressive, but that one player's was clearly more impresssive than the other. So I ask the question again: do you think Scarlett's win was the same in quality and difficulty as Serral's? Because if so, I think you might need to check your own bias as to how good those players really are. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8990 Posts
On August 19 2018 20:44 RealityTheGreat wrote: Naniwa...Sad... Why not mention Jim? Did Jim ever get close to winning a big tournament? I must say I can't remember. Also it's kind of sad but Naniwa seem like a legit asshole, can't say I feel too bad for him. | ||
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
On August 20 2018 01:26 Nakajin wrote: Did Jim ever get close to winning a big tournament? I must say I can't remember. Also it's kind of sad but Naniwa seem like a legit asshole, can't say I feel too bad for him. Not close really, but his IEM Shenzhen run could probably fit in the OP? Though I don't remember how impressive his play looked, or how crushing the defeat was. (And not going to now spend hours re-watching all the games) | ||
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billynasty
United States260 Posts
But what does that even have to do with his SC2 gameplay? Why not just state his achievements & leave it at that? Him being "controversial" adds nothing to this piece. I just think its a lazy narrative that only serves to slight his achievements. Case in point, you don't read that Stephano was brilliant & an innovator but yet an alcoholic. When mentioning Scarlett you don't preface her achievements with well, I won't go there. Special or Major has a history of controversies but no one ever seems to mention that. If Kane had ever become 1 of the best, would you write of his physical condition too? Maybe i just haven't had my morning coffee yet, but if you're gonna write a piece about Starcraft than just make it about that. It's the games that mattered. But yeah, Serral's performance was amazing lol. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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Unikorn
2 Posts
On August 20 2018 00:01 drazen_os wrote: Actually, that is exactly what you are doing. Trying to minimize Scarlett's achievement. Everything that came before BUT in that last paragraph is invalidated by what comes after it. I get that Serral is your god and you worship him, but to not even mention Scarlett because YOU think her achievement is not in the same league is just wow. I don't think it's only the magnitude of the single achievement in Korea that separates them. It's the performance in WCS. Scarlett has been mostly underwhelming, apart from her narrow 2-3 loss vs. Serral. He, on the other hand, has utterly dominated everyone he had to face. Taking that into account, Serral is just on another level. While Scarlett occasionally does well against Koreans but still loses to several foreigners, Serral absolutely dominates the foreign scene and hasn't lost a series vs. a Korean since March (Maru at WESG). | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8990 Posts
On August 20 2018 02:01 billynasty wrote: Why do writers, whenever they mention Naniwa's performances have to include he was controversial? He may have been controversial for some people but he also did things his own way. In a world where people give talking points & tote the expected to often boring or predictable path, to some Naniwa's 'controversies' were simply him being real. But nope, we can't have that or they'll be vilified for life, we need everyone to follow the same path. But what does that even have to do with his SC2 gameplay? Why not just state his achievements & leave it at that? Him being "controversial" adds nothing to this piece. I just think its a lazy narrative that only serves to slight his achievements. Case in point, you don't read that Stephano was brilliant & an innovator but yet an alcoholic. When mentioning Scarlett you don't preface her achievements with well, I won't go there. Special or Major has a history of controversies but no one ever seems to mention that. If Kane had ever become 1 of the best, would you write of his physical condition too? Maybe i just haven't had my morning coffee yet, but if you're gonna write a piece about Starcraft than just make it about that. It's the games that mattered. But yeah, Serral's performance was amazing lol. Edit: Nvm | ||
digmouse
China6331 Posts
On August 19 2018 17:16 Charoisaur wrote: My bet is he won't win because he has been partying too hard after GSL vs TW. Faceless | ||
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
Enjoying a cake that their mom buys is celebration enough. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On August 20 2018 01:51 D-light wrote: Not close really, but his IEM Shenzhen run could probably fit in the OP? Though I don't remember how impressive his play looked, or how crushing the defeat was. (And not going to now spend hours re-watching all the games) Irrelevant anyway as Jim isn't white. | ||
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digmouse
China6331 Posts
On August 19 2018 20:44 RealityTheGreat wrote: Naniwa...Sad... Why not mention Jim? As good as Jim was, he was never remotely close to the upper echelon of foreigners. Naniwa at his prime was entirely another level compared any Chinese player. As sad as it sounds, other than maybe in the first 1-1.5 years of Wings, no Chinese player was ever in the range of top tier foreigners. Our guys occasionally show brilliance, like TooDming, iAsonu and TIME did in their primes, but there hasn't been one player that can consistently compete at a high level. | ||
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veniss
79 Posts
At the time of KeSPA Cup 2016, -KeSPA was fifteen days away from dropping Proleague, and with it would go most of the sc2 divisions of teams in Korea. -Rogue was universally praised, but it was clear to everyone he hadn't yet found that next gear. His Proleague record that year was 13-9, the best of any Zerg. -Zest won three GSLs and an IEM Katowice. He also was KT's ace and captain. -Stats was Proleague's best player that year at 27-9. He all-killed SKT that year and his best matchup in Proleague was PvP. Between Rogue (Proleague's best Zerg), Zest (4 premiere wins), Stats (Proleague's best player, Cross-Finals champion), and Trap (sOs' understudy), they combined for half as many wins as Neeb's practice partner. In the twilight of KeSPA, that the combined powers of Jin Air and KT got half as much done as a newer pick up from MVP is the chef kisses fingers gif. So long as we don't undersell Serral's achievement, I think we can fairly knock this essay for recency bias. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On August 20 2018 02:46 Fango wrote: To be honest the only concerning part of this article is that it calls INno a top three korean terran. He was almost top 3 before the Group B matches according to the WCS standings  | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46197 Posts
On August 19 2018 20:44 RealityTheGreat wrote: Naniwa...Sad... Why not mention Jim? Because Naniwa was second only to Stephano as a foreigner in the glory days of SC2, and Jim wasn't ever even in the Top 5 (10?) of foreigners. I only wish there was a way to accurately compare Serral and Neeb to the old guard of foreigners who had played against Mvp, Nestea, MC, etc. in the GSL. If Neeb and Serral had excelled during WoL and HotS, I wonder how they'd measure up to Stephano, Naniwa, Jinro, IdrA, HuK, Thorzain, and the other old school foreigners. | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1207 Posts
On August 20 2018 07:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Because Naniwa was second only to Stephano as a foreigner in the glory days of SC2, and Jim wasn't ever even in the Top 5 (10?) of foreigners. I only wish there was a way to accurately compare Serral and Neeb to the old guard of foreigners who had played against Mvp, Nestea, MC, etc. in the GSL. If Neeb and Serral had excelled during WoL and HotS, I wonder how they'd measure up to Stephano, Naniwa, Jinro, IdrA, HuK, Thorzain, and the other old school foreigners. In WCS America Season 1, Neeb made the ro16 and took a map off of Polt. In the ro16, he beat HuK in the loser's match and lost 1-2 against Revival in the final match. Had HotS continued longer, and if Neeb had stayed Terran, I think it's safe to say that Neeb could have become one of the best foreign Terrans. As for Protoss, Neeb's first games were in April of 2015. Just under four months later, he beat Stardust to qualify for WCS Premier season 3. He then went out in the ro32. Now, Stardust was never a top Korean, but he did manage to win WCS EU Season 2 in 2014 as well as reach the ro8 in the prior 2015 season. | ||
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digmouse
China6331 Posts
On August 20 2018 07:22 FrkFrJss wrote: In WCS America Season 1, Neeb made the ro16 and took a map off of Polt. In the ro16, he beat HuK in the loser's match and lost 1-2 against Revival in the final match. Had HotS continued longer, and if Neeb had stayed Terran, I think it's safe to say that Neeb could have become one of the best foreign Terrans. As for Protoss, Neeb's first games were in April of 2015. Just under four months later, he beat Stardust to qualify for WCS Premier season 3. He then went out in the ro32. Now, Stardust was never a top Korean, but he did manage to win WCS EU Season 2 in 2014 as well as reach the ro8 in the prior 2015 season. To be fair though winning 2013-2014 era NA/EU WCS almost means nothing because the gap was massive. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8990 Posts
As non-white goes Sen is always the one getting forgotten, he is the only one with Lilbow winning than a premier in Hots and the only one without a hard region lock and was one of the top foreigner for a long ass time. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46197 Posts
Eh, Jim's still a foreigner... He's just not as good as other foreigners. | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1207 Posts
On August 20 2018 07:24 digmouse wrote: To be fair though winning 2013-2014 era NA/EU WCS almost means nothing because the gap was massive. True, which is why taking a game of Polt and Revival was a big thing. Also, the post I was responding to specifically talked about the older foreign players, so the presence of a gap is irrelevant. | ||
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